Hey Hillary: Tax credits won't mean shit to the uninsured

[ButterflyBlood]

So under your plan, any uninsured person who's probably already barely making ends meet now has to buy health insurance, but it'll be OK because they'll get tax credits to offset the cost? Gee, the only problem is that if that person can't afford insurance, they're probably barely paying anything in taxes anyway. Do you think most people who are uninsured just can't afford it because they're taxed too much?

What a terrible plan.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Looks to me like...

A lot of corporate campaign contributions worked in their intended manner.

[EST]

Sigh...

Me too. They still aren't getting the message.
I realize the insurance industry employs a lot of good people who work hard and with integrity, but we simply do not need a million paid gatekeepers to health care.

[durrrty libby]

2. I'm pretty sure poor people are eligible for medicaid at no cost,

but rather than pissing in the wind, people can get questions answered tonight

She has a live webcast on health care tonight 8pm

People can sign up and submit questions

Read the plan and RSVP for the webcast:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/healthcare



Of course many just enjoy their squack and squee too damn much to actually bother

[Warpy]

5. Then I'm sure you haven't researched Medicaid qualifications

In this state, anyone with more than $1500 in assets is not eligible.

Medicaid isn't for the poor. Medicaid is for the destitute.

[durrrty libby]

17. People do not have to be homeless or car-less to be eligible for medicaid

In my lifetime I have helped many people do the paperwork for medicaid,

including several suddenly single moms

So your so "sure" is bogus, .........to say the least

[Warpy]

18. You've helped them do the paperwork.

How many were approved?

Yeah, right.

I have been uninsured and uninsurable for 20 years. There is no help for people who work. Some states have decent programs for children, but their mothers are shit out of luck.

[durrrty libby]

29. "Yeah, right." right back atcha. Keep enjoying your own petard

:toast:

[dflprincess]

32. And how many single - no dependents adults have you helped qualify?

I don't see anything in her plan that addresses unmarried adults.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

7. As long as you're doing links, how about one that tells how poor people are elligible for

Medicaid at no cost?

[durrrty libby]

13. Do it your damn self

[redqueen]

23. ....

:rofl:

Lovely. :)

[Gidney N Cloyd]

30. I think you inadvertantly just summed up Hillary's position on Health Care.

[durrrty libby]

31. How so? Do tell how you have come to that conclusion?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. I am a working person...

who for YEARS was uninsured -- I was not "poor"
enough to qualify for Medicaid and did not make enough to buy
insurance that covered anything but catastrophic coverage that
had a very high deductible -- in other words, insurance that
did very little for me as far as preventative or regular care.

How much would it cost me per month to buy into Medicaid under
Hillary's plan?  'Cause I am here to tell you tax credits do
[b]DICK[/b] for people who are in the situation I was in. If
you don't have the $$$ at the start, you are just fucked.
Period.

[Maribelle]

27. There will be a cap on insurance costs directly related to your salary.

in addition to tax credits for you.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

34. And what if that "cap" is still more...

than what I can truly afford instead of how much they THINK I can afford based on my salary??? And I would still have to come up with the $$$ upfront and then wait to get it back at the end of the tax season.

Life happens -- my truck was stolen, my cats have gotten sick and needed treatment, I have had to step in and help my Mom and sister financially -- I am lucky to have $20 left at the end of the month sometimes. Health insurance? Uh huh.

[regnaD kciN]

46. Wrong...

The tax credits will be used to bring your contribution down to that cap, not beyond it.

And a cap based on salary won't do jack to help those who have decent income, but expenses that eat it up (such as people trapped by a subprime mortgage into a home they can't sell, someone just out of college with tens of thousands in student loans, someone forced to provide for an elderly parent, or someone paying off credit card debts from a family member's illness or period of unemployment in the past). How does a cap of, say, 20% of one's salary help when your fixed, bare-bones living expenses already eat up 90% of that salary? :shrug:

[Maribelle]

49. So, you demand that your health insurance premiums allow you to buy a home you could not afford???

Hold your breath while we all cry you a freakin river.

[superkia]

58. Its sad when people in America still dont have a clue?

The people that are arguing against your point have probably never been there, so it doesn't exist. Its the whole pull yourself up from your bootstraps crowd. Sometimes people don't even have the boots! My mother was a single parent working two jobs to support 4 children, we lived in the shittiest ghetto, had hand me down clothes from shelters, and enjoyed every bite of our ketchup or mayonnaise sandwich if we had bread. She was considered to have made too much money for help so we also dealt with the no insurance problem . If this plan is how everyone is saying, some of the more fortunate people may be helped but the broke and poor are probably still left out.

What do you expect when Americans only look at how things are for them and continue to vote candidates in that have corporations as their number priority. Until Americans decide to vote someone in office that will change that and be a president for the people, poor people will still be fucked! But hey if its not you, who cares right! The only good part is eventually these same candidates will bring the middle class down a level and then the fun begins. I'm happy to have lived without money growing up, because when it gets worse I will adjust and sit back and watch the ones that pointed fingers cry and moan. You get what you pay for folks.

[againes654]

14. Except those of us who

have 2 working adults in the house that make just enough to not qualify for medicaid. In order for me to be "poor enough", one of us will have to quit our job. That is not a solution, and it is those of us that are left out of HRC's plan.

[durrrty libby]

20. You are assuming you are left out. I have seen no proof that she

intends to leave anyone out.

You just need more info. Don't go by what the haters here say. They just enjoy their own squack and squee.

Check out the webcast tonight

[againes654]

24. I will check it out

Health care is one of my main hot-buttons. I did read HRC's plan yesterday. I see that it is mandated for all to have insurance, but I don't see how her plan helps those of us that make less than $24k a year. I will continue to read on it though.

[regnaD kciN]

47. She doesn't intend to "leave anyone out" in the sense...

...that everyone will be allowed to purchase insurance, without being denied for preexisting conditions, etc., if they can afford the premiums. There are many people who can't, and capping costs based on salary won't do a thing to help them.

Don't go by what the haters here say.

Nor will I go by the brush-offs and non-sequiturs that all-too-often pass for "debate" from Hill's Shills.

[SOS]

55. "pretty sure", but wrong

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/MedicaidEligibility/downloads/MedGlance05.pdf

[AZBlue]

59. Um.....most are inelibible.

The requirements are so strict that most poor don't qualify and the working poor rarely qualify. I guess it depends on how you define the word "poor" but I think everyone should have access to healthcare.

[Tom Joad]

3. No Private insurer left behind.

ain't that sweet.

[Warpy]

4. Hillary has her head up her ass on this one

and you're absolutely right. What good is a $15,000 tax credit going to do to somebody who's paying $2,000?

Unless she funds this stinker by mandating that corporations raise their employees' pay enough to cover the cost of insurance, something that is as likely as the Pope on a pogo stick, this loser of a plan is going to create nothing but a pool of uninsured people who are also lawbreakers.

At least Edwards is allowing people to opt in to Medicare instead of going for some for profit plan.

[durrrty libby]

8. Hopefully many will sign up for her webcast and ask questions

Then they can get their heads out of their asses

[jobycom]

11. Since Edwards claims her plan is an "imitation" of his, will you ask Edwards's and Obama's

supporters to get their heads out of their asses as well? Obama, also, said her plan was similar to his.

[durrrty libby]

12. No.

[sandnsea]

43. Similar, with ONE HUGE gap

Tax credits instead of subsidy. Edwards is mandated, but I don't think you have to figure out how to pay for it until you get your tax credit. Obama's has no mandate, and is subsidized up front. HUGE differences, even though many of the rest of the details are the same. When this shakes out, Obama will move way up because he also has an awesome plan to actually take on the insurance companies head on and reform benefits and premiums.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[againes654]

15. That is a pretty broad assumption

I won't even bother to argue with you though.

[MannyGoldstein]

16. I Wasn't Serious.

Sorry if I offended.

[againes654]

19. Oh, I am sorry

No offence. I didn't realize that you were being sarcastic.:toast:

[Baby Snooks]

52. You got it!!!!

Them that's got the gold makes the rules. And the profits.

[jobycom]

9. Odd, since both Obama and Edwards accused her of stealing their plans.

"I commend Senator Clinton for her health care proposal," said Obama in a statement. "It's similar to the one I put forth last spring, though my universal health care plan would go further in reducing the punishing cost of health care than any other proposal that's been offered in this campaign."

"...if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then I'm flattered," said Edwards...

Clinton's plans calls for subsidies, not just tax breaks, for those who can't afford insurance? Like Edwards and Obama, she plans for insurance costs to be based on a percentage of income.

[eridani]

44. All of the frontrunners have health care plans that are totally fucked

That's why the thugs who run insurance companies and other members of the corporate elite have allowed them to be frontrunners.

[Bitwit1234]

21. I'll have to go back and find it, but I think Obama also suggested that.

[regnaD kciN]

48. But Obama's plan doesn't require people to buy insurance...

...even if they can't afford it.

Big difference, I'd say.

[leftofthedial]

22. this plan is proof that Hillary is a repuke

[jobycom]

28. Then it proves that Obama and Edwards are, too.

Both said it is essentially the same as their plans.

[Cameron27]

36. Yes it does,

but some are ignoring that for some reason.

[jobycom]

37. They have to ignore much to maintain the "Hillary is a Republican" garbage.

They probably wear blinders, to avoid accidentally viewing the truth.

[leftofthedial]

42. yep. all of 'em.

the DLC wing of the "democratic" party are all abunch of repukes

[redqueen]

25. NONE of the top three will leave any insurance exec behind. n/t

[Baby Snooks]

53. You got it too!

I guess we know who has contributed the most to Democrats this cycle. The health care and insurance industry.

[Maribelle]

26. Tax Credits mean a lot to low income folks that already have insurance now

additionally, there will be a cap on the cost of insurance in direct relation to salary

Hillary's has other plans for those not able to afford insurance. You need to educate yourself on this, instead of demanding to be spoon fed.

[eridani]

45. The plan still allows insurance companies to deny care every chance they get

And Hillary wants people to be TAXED for that "privilege"? Fuck that and the horse it rode in on.

[Maribelle]

50. It does? Kindly show us all where it says that. (n/t)

[eridani]

60. Why don't you show me where it forbids that?

I can't find it. That's how they operate now, and how they will operate in the future unless specifically forbidden from doing so.

[NancyG]

33. Here's the question I submitted to Hillary's webcast:

"I am self-employed, 57 and we pay $1075/mo for a very high-deductible PPO. TAX CREDITS WILL NOT HELP US as we pay very little income tax. Mostly FICA. How will your plan help reduce the amount my husband and I currently pay for very poor coverage?"

I really want her plan to work for me and everyone else. I want to understand what tax credits mean in this plan. Is it a credit against income tax or more like Earned Income Credit, which is real money back.

[durrrty libby]

39. That's great that you signed up. I did too (good question)

I have not received the info on where to go yet

[ProudDad]

35. Earth to Hillary

Your 'universal health insurance "plan"' is still a FUCKED UP CORPORATE WELFARE SCHEME!!!!

As long as the leeches in the health insurance mafia and big pharma are in charge, the People get SCREWED!!!

And believe it, they WILL be in charge...

Hillary is the major recipient of health insurance mafia money in this race...

And he who has the gold gets the Health Care...

[marlakay]

38. Hillary is forgetting the working poor

the people who make enough, just enough to not qualify for help but not enough to afford insurance. I remember when i was a single mom I didn't buy any new clothes once for 4 years because food and clothes for my kids were more important. Sure I had plenty of old clothes but try doing it and that includes shoes to. And I was very lucky my dad was alive then (he died in 2000, thank god he didn't live to see all this Bush stuff) and my dad bought Kaiser for me and the girls, if not we wouldn't have been insured.

Both of my girls started working part time at 14 to be able to have extra things teens have, I couldn't afford any. I felt bad at the time and they grumbled at the time, now they are glad for the experience of learning to work for stuff.

But it goes back to Hillary's plan. Most of the people in this country are not middle class they are lower middle class. Most people like this author of the post said can't even barely afford to pay car insurance which is required, food and roof over their head and gas. If they make health insurance required as well and its more than people can afford...what happens then? Eating crappy food, no new clothes, no life at all other than work, no extras, no fun stuff at all.

So many people who go on fancy trips and weekend outings and see it as nothing don't realize most of america would give anything for one of those trips. I can travel and do stuff now because I remarried and kids are grown and gone and we have medical through my husbands union. But I have lived like most Americans for many years and to tell them they get a tax credit is totally laughable...

But I am sure her campaign will pay for expensive ads that say universal health care everyone covered and the poor saps will believe it...just like they believed friendly Bush would save them from big bad Iraq.

[durrrty libby]

40. You are making all kinds of assumptions

Sign up for the webcast and learn the truth

[nealmhughes]

41. Oh, the webcast will clarify all, I see. Unlike Dennis Kucinich who needs no webcast: Medicare for

all, not just the elderly and the disabled.

How will a "tax credit" help anyone who after their deductions do not pay any federal taxes except for FICA and, in fact, may get some back in EIC?

Oh, wait, maybe I should go attend a $1000 a plate dinner and ask Mme. Clnton myself. Oh, wait, I only have $80 to my name and need to feed my dog and buy deodorant, some new printer ink, and maybe splurge and go out and get some socks without holes in them (tired of looking like the Combsucker Wolfowitz).

Oh, wait, even had I the money, Mme. isn't coming anywhere near us: the South is written off, I remember now.

Yes, mandating that the government compel one to purchase a corporate product is just what Mme. needs to raise herself in my eyes! Right on board with Fredrich and Karl these days she is, our Madame Clinton.

[SOS]

56. Irony writ large

The working poor who make "too much" for Medicaid, whose employers offer nothing and can't afford private insurance
will all surely log onto their new computers to particiapte in a "webcast".
Perhaps HRC will address the digital divide during her presentation?
One third of low-income families don't even have a computer, let alone high speed access for video.

[Mass]

51. This is the problem with all the plans that make healthcare insurance mandatory:

They assume that most uninsured people are irresponsible people who do not want to get insured, not people who cannot afford it.

This is why, among the plans offered by the different candidates, the only one that is good is Kucinich, the only single-payer healthcare plan.

[Baby Snooks]

54. They assume a lot...

"They assume that most uninsured people are irresponsible people who do not want to get insured, not people who cannot afford it."

Most of the members of Congress have either forgotten, or never knew, what it is like to barely make ends meet. Even the increased minimum wage really won't help most people. It will simply allow a few more groceries or some clothes for the kids for school during the course of a year. Not much more.

People who make $165,200 a year really have lost touch with the reality of life for people who only make $16,520 a year.

Most of the members of Congress, of course, make way more than just the $165,200. I wonder what Hillary's actual income is this year?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. Not only that, she grew up affluent, AND irony of ironies,

when she was at Yale Law School, she was on the closest thing to European-style health care one is likely to find in the U.S.: the health plan offered to Yale students and employees, by which paying tuition (or being on fellowship) entitles students to medical, surgical, ob-gyn, and mental health care at no extra cost. (I know because I started at Yale the year after Hill and Bill graduated.)