After promising a rollback on eavesdropping , Dems ready to cave again

[dajoki]

Democrats Seem Ready to Extend Wiretap Powers
By ERIC LICHTBLAU and CARL HULSE
Published: October 9, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/washington/09nsa.html?_r=1&ex=1349668800&en=2f59d3ec4712a525&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin

WASHINGTON, Oct. 8 — Two months after insisting that they would roll back broad eavesdropping powers won by the Bush administration, Democrats in Congress appear ready to make concessions that could extend some crucial powers given to the National Security Agency.

<<snip>>

Although willing to oppose the White House on the Iraq war, they remain nervous that they will be called soft on terrorism if they insist on strict curbs on gathering intelligence.

A Democratic bill to be proposed on Tuesday in the House would maintain for several years the type of broad, blanket authority for N.S.A. eavesdropping that the administration secured in August for six months.

<<snip>>

A competing proposal in the Senate, still being drafted, may be even closer in line with the administration plan, with the possibility of including retroactive immunity for telecommunications utilities that participated in the once-secret program to eavesdrop without court warrants.

<<snip>>

“Many members continue to fear that if they don’t support whatever the president asks for, they’ll be perceived as soft on terrorism,” said William Banks, a professor who specializes in terrorism and national security law at Syracuse University and who has written extensively on federal wiretapping laws.

[sasquatch]

1. Break out the Pink Tutu's and dance girls

:eyes::puke:

[rockymountaindem]

2. They haven't figured out the paradigm shift

People no longer put the emphasis on hiding behind Bush all the time like they did in 2004. The worm has turned and people want to see some opposition, but our Dems won't provide it because they think it's still 2003. *That's* the problem here, and until they wake up and see that times have changed, this is what we're gonna get.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. One simple solution:

Go apeshit on the phones and email inboxes of Pelosi and Reid.

[Dr.Phool]

5. Oh, it's gonna happen in the morning!

Bet your life on it!

[Eric J in MN]

4. Please email both your Senators: No amnesty for phone companies.

Feel free to use some or all of my words without referring to me:

Do not give retroactive immunity to phone companies.

Any company which violated our privacy in an illegal manner should pay damages.

This is about accountablity for breaking the law.

Phone companies have no motive to obey the law in the future if you give them retroactive immunity. We should stop warrantless wiretapping

I am writing you in reference to this article by Glenn Greenwald:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/22/telecom_immunity/index.html

Once again, please vote against any bill which gives retroactive immunity to phone companies for privacy violations.

Most Senators have an email form at their websites.

[Dr.Phool]

6. Yeah, read that article.

Another reason to vote for Hillary!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Please tell me again what a great president Bill Clinton was.

Fuck ALL the Bushes, and fuck ALL the Clintons!

[Eric J in MN]

7. The Senate hasn't voted on this yet.

I'll be waiting to see whether-or-not Hillary Clinton votes for amnesty for phone companies for violating their customers privacy.

[flpoljunkie]

14. I believe the telecoms were given immunity for future eavesdropping liability in Protect America Act

[ixion]

8. not soft on terrorism, soft on DEMOCRACY

which is far, far worse, IMO.

[annabanana]

9. kicking for telecom accountablility!. . . n/t

[Perry Logan]

10. Give the cowardice meme a rest, guys. Congress is not a knife-fight.

You guys have really gotta question this "cowardice" meme and learn a little bit more about how legislation is passed. I'm almost positive Congress is not a fist-fight.

It may be frustrating to watch legislators in action, but all the raw courage in the world won't gain you a single vote. It's not about constant confrontation and head-butting.

Maybe some of you have been watching too many action movies. It might be well to brush up on how legislatures work. Compromise and cutting deals is what these people do--it's what they're SUPPOSED to do. That's how the system is supposed to work. Mistaking this for cowardice--and doing so over and over again--bespeaks a severe learning problem.

My testosterone-crazed friends--if you get upset every time a legislator cuts a deal or compromises, you're going to live a miserable political life!

It's also a stretch to prattle on about how stupid our congresspeople are. If there's credible evidence that the Democrats in Congress are stupider than everyone at DU, I'd like to see it. Or did they suddenly get stupid when they went to Washington?

You might also give a thought to how this constant smearing of our own legislators hurts the party. It is most certainly a misguided strategy to badmouth your own people every five minutes.

Nor is it the healthiest thing in the world, psychologically speaking. When we get a health-care system,, I'm going to urge all of you to see a psychologist about possible self-esteem problems.

A strict fast from the media news is also advised. There's a lot of Republican money behind these memes you love to repeat so much. But the facts prove them wrong:

"President Bush's success rating in the Democratic-controlled House has fallen this year to a half-century low, and he prevailed on only 14 percent of the 76 roll call votes on which he took a clear position.

"So far this year, Democrats have backed the majority position of their caucus 91 percent of the time on average on such votes. That marks the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1728952&mesg_id=1728952
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

Don't let the media rhetoric or hot-headed accusations of cowardice fool you. It just ain't so. The Democrats have acquitted themselves quite well--especially given their bare majority in both houses, and a relentlessly obstructionist Republican minority.

[dajoki]

15. They don't get stupid when they go to Washington...

they get rich.

[5X]

11. fucking disgusting. n/t

[radfringe]

12. now you know why I don't get all pom-pom cheery when

there's an article about some dem getting "tuff" with an investigation

too much powder drying, not enough tables, and a wholelotta fluff

Yeah, I now there are a few good congress critters out there trying to do the right thing, but there are too few too late

[dajoki]

17. Too many investigations...

NO RESULTS!!

[jmp]

13. Reid and Pelosi will be making ...

A special guest appearance on ABCs new comedy "Cavemen". :eyes:

[truebrit71]

16. Is this the Conyers Bill? If so the headline is incorrect...

See Will Pitt's thread on this...