Obama needs to leave the Democratic Party....

[Didereaux]

The twirly-eyed fundies believe that the Democratic Party is the seat, and fount of all evil...the very home of the devil hisownself. They truly believe that if they destroy the 'evil' ones that believe in religious freedom, private freedom, freedom of speech, then their god will forgive them and make things all perfect. I mean this, that is exactly what they preach and believe.

Obama has chosen to not only pander(politicians are allowed that) to that crowd, no matter how futile the effort would normally be considered, but for the past six weeks or so he has preached, and I mean that in the religious sense, he has PREACHED the fundies gospel. He has been so convincing that he has made me believe, not his moronic creed, but that inside the jackass could really be 'fundie' material.

If I am wrong and he is simply politicking that group, then he is one of the finest actors and most convincing liars in decades...the LAST thing this nation needs right now is an accomplished liar and actor.

So good'bye Obama, not only won't I vote for you now, I will actively work against you! Go recruit twirly-eyed fundies.

..now you either more or less agree with my stance or you do not. If you do not, do not waste your breath or risk carpals arguing what a 'wonderful man he is yada yada yada I rooted for him early on, but unlike some, I always keep my eyes and ears open when rooting for a politician, glad I did in Obamas case.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. As disappointed as I am

no, he doesn't need to leave the party.

[Didereaux]

12. I actually agree with you on that... I was venting a wee bit? naaah ;) n/t

[Name removed]

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[Ethelk2044]

3. He does not need to leave the democratic party. He is the very one who will bring

this party back together again. He will also be the one who will bring previous dems back to the party. Obama is the best hope for his party.

[durrrty libby]

54. Sometimes hallucinations are funny

[YareweinIraq]

4. Crossover Votes

He is looking for crossover votes now that a group is talking about splitting from the republican base.

Very bold strategy, but don't know if it is a winning strategy.

[Dawgs]

22. In the South it's a great strategy. I would have a problem with it if he wasn't a Christian.

[Dawgs]

5. OMG!!

You care do give any examples, or are you just hating because your candidate is doing poorly?

[Didereaux]

7. I gave the examples(SC speeches) and my candidate is the Dem Party! not the fundy party n/t

[Name removed]

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[Sparkly]

19. Do you have some specific quotes or links to transcripts? nt

[LittleClarkie]

34. There are people of faith in your party. Oh. The Horror.

For example, me :hi:

Ooga booga.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

6. This kind of shit...

...makes me glad that the people who write this kind of shit don't do fuck-all to influence the party.

[Didereaux]

10. oh, hows this for contributing time, labor and some say talent...

...to the Democratic Party and cause.

Go to this link, browse the graphics. see what it is I support, estimate the time and effort then come back and tell us that I do "fuck-all". What I don't do is spend all my time attacking individuals on blogs. Argue my premises, ideas, mutterings, but do not argue me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12461951@N03/


edit forgot to put in the link......old sucks!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

53. I'm not even sure how to respond to that.

If your political cartoons had a readership of say, several hundred thousand people you might have a point. I think you're deluding yourself if you think that making some political cartoons and posting them on flickr constitutes influencing the direction of the party. It might be considered an attempt to influence it, but I would suggest that it is one that has failed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Please...

That's over the top...

The bashing of the candidates here has to stop..


As to the homophobic gospel singer, I was baptized in a Baptist church at fourteen years old... Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior...That being said, none of us are perfect... We're not perfect till we get to Heaven...If God doesn't like this or like that I will leave it up to him to determine it...

On this Earth we are all equal and entitled to respect...

[BootinUp]

16. Agreed 100%

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. This Isn't My First Rodeo

You have a dynamic at DU...When negative information comes out about a candidate some folks here will embrace the negative news because then they have another club to hit the candidate they don't like over the head with ...And some times it's genuine...

However in this instance I don't think the anger and disappointment of gay DUers is feigned...

[BootinUp]

18. I believe

that is also true. The Obama campaign will have to come up with an explanation or change to make some folks happy here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Just As When Hillary Gets Bashed Here I Wonder The Nexus Between DU And The Larger Universe

DSB

[BootinUp]

21. DU and Dkos

for instance, represent your activists pretty well these days (I think). So its impossible to know whether this will hurt him yet in the primary which represents a much larger and different group.

[BootinUp]

23. This Obama faith play

is actually pretty smart for him. He was not doing as well among blacks as one might expect, these events will help him there.

[ldf]

24. yeah,

and you may be quite surprised by its (god's) decisions...

but, you too, will find out...

[dbackjon]

41. Fuck OBAMA and HIS HOMOPHOBIA

I want a candidate who doesn't kiss ANTI=GAY Bigots ASS.

By appearing on the stage with those ASSHOLES, he is unfit to be the Democratic Party Candidate

[still_one]

9. sounds to me that you won't be voting for any of the top 3 leading Dems

because every single one of them are pandering

And, since it looks Hillary will most likely be
the nominee, all her pandering for the Iraq war
cannot make you too happy

Of course the supreme court is at stake, but don't
let that bother you that you won't necessarily
support the Democratic nominee

[Didereaux]

11. re-read the OP i specifically said...

...in the paranthesis that politicians pander that is allowed. Else how could someones practice the 'art' of politicking. It was not pandering I was attacking, it was the, to me, Obamas way to comfortable with religious preaching persona that is bothering me. Is he a fundie in covered in blue cloth and beneath the blue cloak exists a Moses wannabe?

[Tellurian]

28. You nailed it!

The rest who refuse to see it are wallowing in a panacea of self-absorbed iconic euphoria.

I've never seen a dem surround himself with so many GOP operatives running his campaign or think nothing of excluding groups from participation because of age or gender preferences. NEVER!

[sundancekid]

13. now you're just diddlin' us, didereaux ...

accomplished liar and actor????
methinks the poster doth protest waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy too much ...

go back to supporting your dlc candidate - think it says "lollipop" across many DU foreheads????

[Didereaux]

14. honest, my disgust with Obama is real .... n/t

[MadHound]

25. So, if you're going to actively work against a candidate who is politicing to pick up crossovers

What will you do about a candidate who has been having regular clandestine meetings with know theocrats for the past fifteen years? <http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html>

Obama is out there trying to pick up crossover voters. Hillary is a member of a group whose stated membership is to have a non-partisan push for theocracy in this country.

So who are you going to support now?

[BootinUp]

26. clandestine?

Seems pretty out in the open to me.

[MadHound]

37. Really? Well according to those who are in the know, clandestine is a pretty apt term

"Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.)"

Hmmm, seems pretty clandestine and secretive to me? Hey, I didn't even know about this group until I read this article, did you?

[BootinUp]

39. I did read it

I found the authors spin and yours to be unsupported by the facts they presented.

[MadHound]

45. I just love you Hillary supporters

Your denial of reality is really only second to Bush supporters. I give you facts and figures from an award winning magazine, and your response is that it is all "spin". Gee, where have we heard that before in the past seven years:think:

[Tellurian]

29. The last paragraph of your link states perfectly Hillary's position on Religion..

"Then, as now, Clinton confounded secularists who recognize public faith only when it comes wrapped in a cornpone accent. Clinton speaks instead the language of nondenominationalism—a sober, eloquent appreciation of "values," the importance of prayer, and "heart" convictions—which liberals, unfamiliar with the history of evangelical coalition building, mistake for a tidy, apolitical accommodation, a personal separation of church and state. Nor do skeptical voters looking for political opportunism recognize that, when Clinton seeks guidance among prayer partners such as Coe and Brownback, she is not so much triangulating—much as that may have become second nature—as honoring her convictions. In her own way, she is a true believer."

Shame on you for trying to paint her any differently...Obma could take a lesson in this case. But then, he's too inexperienced. He prefers being led by his handlers!

[MadHound]

35. Nice try, taking paragraphs out of context. Here, let's add a bit more context from the article

"The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance."

"That's how it works: The Fellowship isn't out to turn liberals into conservatives; rather, it convinces politicians they can transcend left and right with an ecumenical faith that rises above politics. Only the faith is always evangelical, and the politics always move rightward."

"Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right."

"But the senator's project isn't the conversion of her adversaries; it's tempering their opposition so she can court a new generation of Clinton Republicans, values voters who have grown estranged from the Christian right. And while such crossover conservatives may never agree with her on the old litmus-test issues, there is an important, and broader, common ground—the kind of faith-based politics that, under the right circumstances, will permit majority morality to trump individual rights. The libertarian Cato Institute recently observed that Clinton is "adding the paternalistic agenda of the religious right to her old-fashioned liberal paternalism." Clinton suggests as much herself in her 1996 book, It Takes a Village, where she writes approvingly of religious groups' access to schools, lessons in Scripture, and "virtue" making a return to the classroom."

Cherry picking select portions of any writing can make a person to appear to be anyone or anything that you wish them to appear. However taking in the full context, it appears that Hillary is increasingly moving to the fold of the religious right, and their special brand of evangelistic theocracy trumping all.

Wake up friend and don't allow partisan blindness lead you down the wrong path. I have presented firm evidence from a reputable source. What do you have to offer, other than parsing single paragraphs taken out of context?

[Tellurian]

40. Nope...the entire article is someones opinion...

until the very last paragraph when the writer comes clean stating exactly what Hillary's principled views are to the distress of many like yourself thinking you've been handed a hammer to cudgel her with..

You've been had my friend. The final paragraph is your comeuppance because apparently you didn't read it through to the end conclusion. :hi:

[MadHound]

44. Yeah, that sounds about right

Basing your opinion of the piece on one paragraph, taken out of context, because the rest of the facts of the article simply don't support "your girl". Textbook definition of denial my friend.

[alteredstate]

50. Thank you for reminding us

that Hillary has pandered to the evangelicals in a big way, for a long time.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[Colobo]

31. I wanna smoke Drano!

:)

[LittleClarkie]

32. Do you not have any friends who go to church? Do you rant at them about their moronic creed?

isn't this kind of a strong reaction to someone revealing they have faith.

What if it's not pandering? What if it's just who he is? What if he was raised that way? And so what?

What are his positions on the issues, that's what's really important.

[Milo_Bloom]

43. The problem is it moves the bar.

Once you accept the mixing of religion and politics as part of the campaign, it LEGITIMIZES it and then it becomes of a game of which party can out religion the other.

And to answer your initial question,, if friends I have go to church start trying to talk to me about their church, I dismantle their belief one idiotic contradiction at a time. I have converted dozens of people to believe organized religion is evil and am happy to destroy their faith if they bring up the topic. However, the friends I have who go church are smart enough to realize NOT to bring up the topic with me.

Now, in reality, I SHOULD rant at people about how moronic their religion is because I believe organized religion is the greatest threat and evil on the planet today, as it encourages lack of thought, which is what leads to things like voting for the Iraq war and voting for candidates who voted for the Iraq war.

SO what if it is how he is raised, just who is he... so what? If that is who he is, then he is someone who doesn't really THINK, he believes in contradictory stories and things proven wrong because someone else told him so or because it was written in an old book. He is somoene willing to dismiss scientific evidence and ACTUAL history to instead believe in a book written by committee hundreds of years after the events took place. In short, he someone I cannot trust to make decisions on my behalf and worse he is someone who will make it more acceptable to suspend independent thinking and embrace a book of fictional stories.

I don't expect a candidate to be an athiest and agnostic or anything else, but I demand they keep open embracement of religion and all the evils and intolerance that go with it OUT of the campaign.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[incapsulated]

36. No, he doesn't

Man alive, calm down.

[AtomicKitten]

38. You first.

IBTL. Oh wait, I guess the rules don't apply to some here.

[Adelante]

42. Ridiculous

And I'm not even religious.

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. We'll have lots of great angry threads at DU...

...blasting Democrats for not standing up to the Republicans after our self imposed 100% purity on all matters at all times litmus tests reduce the Democratic Caucus in the Senate to three members.

[JerseygirlCT]

46. No, sorry. I have no problem with him or any candidate

talking to anyone.

And as a Christian, if he can speak in a way that evangelical Christians can relate to, that's actually a good thing. Does it change what he says?

OTOH, I'm not at all happy to read about the fundraiser with an anti-gay performer. THAT'S a different thing, and a real problem. That's someone chosen to represent Obama, and the choice is troublesome, regardless of how many people it might bring in.

But meeting with any group that will have you is what running for office is about. The talented ones are able to speak to the people in language they understand and relate to.

(And just to be clear, I don't have a choice in the race, yet. I'm still watching and waiting.)

[Colobo]

47. After you leave, maybe.

[Clintonista2]

48. I used to say "I have no problem with Obama, it's his supporters I don't like" - That has changed

I simple cannot support a candidate who throws GLBT's to the curb in order to gain a few votes.

[illinoisprogressive]

51. Didereaux, i don't think you get to decide who can or cannot be a democrat. if it bothers you, then

just don't vote for him. period.

[Didereaux]

52. difficulty in differentiation?

Expressing an opinion is hardly a command or directive. At the very least get a grasp on the words you choose to use.