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Giuliani and 9/11 - four points to never forget

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 10:04 PM
Original message
Giuliani and 9/11 - four points to never forget
1) THE RADIO DEAL WITH MOTOROLA: Giuliani administration approved a sweetheart deal to purchase thousands of new radios from Motorola without taking bids, abusing the "replacement" clause of an old contract. These didn't work and were returned in early 2001. As a result, the firefighters went into the WTC Towers on 9/11 with the same badly functioning radios they had in 1993. Most of those in the North Tower never received warnings to evacuate after the South Tower went down. The difference in lives lost is in the dozens at the minimum. Firefighters' families staged a near-riot during the 9/11 Commission hearings in May 2004, when the Commission failed to ask Giuliani about the radios.

2) THE BUNKER: In 2000, Giuliani and the director of the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management, Jerome Hauer, chose to locate the high tech OEM command headquarters on the 23rd floor of WTC Building 7, despite objections from the Fire Department and general ridicule over the decision to place the the mayor's bunker in case of a mass casualty event at what was already jokingly called Ground Zero. The center included independent air and power supplies (diesel tanks on the 7th floor, in violation of the fire code). Hauer and Giuliani now blame each other for this move - a pox on both their houses. The choice was another sweetheart deal, with the owner of WTC 7 and the Towers, Larry Silverstein.

3) LIES ABOUT THE TOXIC AIR: After 9/11, Giuliani participated fully in the lie told by the EPA at the White House's insistence: that the air was safe to breathe in Lower Manhattan, that the rescue workers could go without masks. The resulting lack of insistence on basic safety measures is now costing more lives by the week.

4) ATTEMPT TO ESTABLISH DICTATORSHIP: 9/11/01 was election day for the mayoral primary in New York City. This is postponed because of the attacks. A week later, Mayor Giuliani, saying he is the only man who can lead New York during the crisis, proposes he stay in office three months past the end of his term, in violation of the city's charter. If he does not get his way, Rudy threatens to push for an immediate repeal of term limits so that he can run again. Republican candidate Michael Bloomberg and one of the two Democratic primary candidates, Mark ("Spineless") Green, say they are ready to accept Il Duce's idea. Fernando Ferrer, the other Democratic candidate, refuses the deal and stares Rudy down, forestalling the establishment of New York City's first open dictatorship. Green edges out Ferrer in the rescheduled primary, amid allegations of vote fixing. Bloomberg reaches into his own pocket for a 15 million dollar ad blitz during the last week of the campaign and takes the general election from Green, amid allegations of vote fixing. Count Rudy returns to his crypt, to await his next chance.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for posting this, my friend ...
... and for speaking the truth so succinctly, and laying out the facts with such precision.

As my too-smart-for-me husband (the wonderful JeffR) stated recently: "Giuliani is as a phony as a $911-dollar bill."
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I didn't know you and JeffR were married!!!
That's so great to know -- you're BOTH so smart!! :hi:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Actually, HE is the smart one ...
... I just get to coast on his coat-tails.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. thank you!
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. WOW!
How very cool! Now I don't have to decide which of the two of you is my favorite. :loveya:
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. If the planes had been later wonder if 9/11er would be running for president.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. I think it's actually worse than that.
But I will have to do a bit of research before I can be definitive.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yes, it is...
Fire away!
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yes, I will KICK this myself...
Anyone else?
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sure ... K & R
for truth
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Why, thank you.
It's just me, but I do think it's the truth.
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I share your passion and will help you kick this sucker all day long
until more people are ready to open their eyes

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Oh, yeah? I double dare ya...
I should have added that Whitman and NYC officials are now blaming each other on Point 3, just as Hauer and Giuliani blame each other on Point 2. I'll confess, on Point 3, I would start by indicting Whitman and seeing what she says then.

If all this is what's out in the open and not really disputed by anyone beyond the principals, I wonder what else might be under there...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I don't see how the OP is dungeon worthy
All of these points have been made many times without intervention in GD.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
15. KR! "A little man in search of a balcony"
That's what Jimmy Breslin called Ghouliani when he tried to install himself as dictator.

In retrospect, it's one more factor that makes me think LIHOP and that Ghouliani was in on it, expecting to cash in first. It was as though he wrote the script for unconstitutional government on a small scale in NY in those days after 9/11 which the federal government would then implement writ large.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Amazing, eh?
That his attempted dictatorship in NYC - and that's by dictionary definition! - is not ever pulled out by media or opposition ... should blow even the most grown-blown-immune minds. What could he possibly do to be more blatant?
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. How about claiming to be the hero of 9/11 when in fact
he is directly responsible for the death of most of the firefighters because of HIS failures and HIS negligence.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Equally or more outrageous, morally
Edited on Mon Oct-22-07 11:52 AM by JackRiddler
We agree - Bush got away with the same thing on a larger scale. But even Bush has only prepared open dictatorship by way of building the apparatus, issuing the EOs and getting the laws allowing him to do it later - he has yet to attempt to declare a dictatorship, like G. did.

(If you're not detecting a touch or irony or black humor, you should be.)
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Sorry JR, but no matter how hard I try, I just can't seem to see
Edited on Mon Oct-22-07 01:58 PM by i miss america
any humor regarding this situation. Guiliani is a despicable leech who obviously has no shame.

Maybe we should add a 6th point to your post...

Did you know he tried to steal money from the 9/11 widows' compensation fund?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic0_J55WzVw

:kick:
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Well, any funny aspect would be in us debating which of the outrages is the worst...
certainly not in RG's record or the idea of RG in office, anywhere.
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Gotcha! Thanks for clarifying.
:toast:
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. That video - WOW WATCH it.
I know this guy but I didn't know that - oh, it fits.
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I still think he is unelectable...n/t
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Really?
Edited on Mon Oct-22-07 04:33 PM by JackRiddler
More so than the guy everyone had already known as a paranoid whack-job for two decades when they voted for him in 1968?

More so than the b-movie actor who had co-starred with a chimp and whose candidacy inspired the notable remark from Gore Vidal, "No: Jimmy Stewart for president, Ronald Reagan for president's best friend"?

More so than... need I mention the actual chimp, the AWOL drunk cokester whose English is arguably better than his Spanish, and who pardons Henry Lee Lucas as the only person spared out of the 160 or so executed during his governorship?

What country are we in again?
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CGowen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. He is certainly selectable, but this would be a really bad idea ....

would be to obvious.


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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Being obvious never stopped barbarians in the past.
Recent past, in fact.
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intheflow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. K&R n/t
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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. Very well said. ALL of those things are legit issues. Thanks! -nt
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i miss america Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
27. Point #7 Guiliani decided to have all the steel from the WTC shipped off to China
for immediate recycling before it could be investigated.

From: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B00E0DA1531F936A15751C1A9679C8B63

In calling for a new investigation, some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer.

Officials in the mayor's office declined to reply to written and oral requests for comment over a three-day period about who decided to recycle the steel and the concern that the decision might be handicapping the investigation.


Considering we're talking about the single most significant crime scene in US history, and the fact that Guiliani is a former prosecutor, you would think he'd understand the importance of analyzing the evidence.

And in a city chock full of skyscrapers, don't you think it would be prudent to learn why THREE modern steel-reinforced concrete buildings, all equipped with sprinkler systems, spontaneously collapsed and somehow turned into dust? One would think that architects and engineers would be interested in understanding how the structural failures occurred.

Rudy's actions regarding the removal of immediate evidence was either incompetence or criminal interference. Either way, it is another point that should not be forgotten.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-22-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Yes, very good
That's one to add to a future version of the OP, all the way - destruction of a crime scene, with the statements from some of the NIST engineers themselves explaining why this hindered the investigation (and naturally raises suspicion about what really happened, alongside the collapse of WTC 7). As sub-point: Seriously mobbed-up contracters doing the job, best exposed by none other than the Daily News (which no one accuses of being the "liberal media") in dozens of pages of coverage (pretty much the only investigative journalism they've done in the 21st century).
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Augdog20 Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-23-07 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
30. Giuliani-Kerik cronyism linked with Mukasey
Giuliani has an albatross: his close relationship with another philanderer, Bernie Kerik, his former police commissioner. Problem is: Kerik is close to indictment under a federal probe, for getting free home improvement, courtesy of a mob-suspected-firm.
AND Marc Mukasey, Rudy's law partner, is monitoring the Kerik situatoin to shield Rudy from getting connected with his old pal Kerik:
The scoop is in Murdoich's NY Post, of all places.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10222007/news/regionalnews/giuliani_bern_shield.htm

GIULIANI'S BERNARD KERIK SHIELD
PAL KEEPS EYE ON EX-NYPD BOSS' PROBE
By LARRY CELONA and DAN MANGAN
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