Nancy Giles and Paul Krugman on Hardball. Finally saying the right thing.

[Skarbrowe]

This is maybe the third post I've started in all the years I've been on the DU. I just had to point out that Nancy Giles and Paul Krugman made so much sense, were so logical in explaining a big part of why the Democrats have been acting almost neutered since they won back both the House and Senate. I wish they could have had the whole hour.

Nancy Giles was fantastic. I remember her from China Beach. They both spoke about how fearful the Democrats were being because the right wing machine would label them unpatriotic and/or unAmerican if they did anything to stop this awful war. They didn't agree with what the Democrats were doing, they were just explaining that the Democrats did not sweep up a whole bunch of seats last November. Chris said they COULD cut-off funding and both Nancy and Paul quickly pointed out how the Republicans would spin that to death.

Anyway, it felt good to hear and see these people get a forum. Thanks Chris.

[leftchick]

1. I believe it is BS

The democrats are not afraid. They are COMPLICIT. period.

[Skarbrowe]

3. I can certainly understand people feeling that way.

No argument from me. I'm just coming from a point of wishful thinking. Kinda like a Cubs fan.

[Arugula Latte]

4. It seems like not only are they neutered, they go out of their way to carry water for the rightwing.

The backstabbing of MoveOn and Pete Stark are but two examples.

[Skarbrowe]

12. My first reaction to the play on words MoveOn used was a negative one.

I felt MoveOn had a great argument and a good question about what Petraeus might be doing, but, I didn't think they needed the play on words. I knew the Republicans would have a field day. You can't hand these people something that easy to attack. Taking it to the floor was just mind blowing. Also, in my personal opinion Rep. Stark was going great until he said "amusement". Words are extremely loaded. Use the wrong ones and you can destroy the whole perfectly valid point you were making.

It doesn't bother me that Stark apologized. It bothers me if he was forced. I don't think MoveOn should have done anything but what they did, move on with their fight.

[sampsonblk]

5. Complicit out of fear

Its time to quit being scared and start fighting back.

[leftchick]

11. complicit out of greed

they are beholden to the corporations that put them in office. Not us.

[Totally Committed]

13. Ditto.

Complicit.

TC

[SharonAnn]

2. Thanks for posting this. It's hard to get things through with such a slim majority, but

they have accomplished some important things. We need to elect more Democrats so that there is a bigger Democratic majority. Then we expect trsformational legislation. Until then, there are tricky coalitions to manage and fine lines that have to be walked.

It would be helpful if we all understood better how much power and what type of power is available to Speaker of the House and Senate majority leader when they have slim majorities.

As a democracy we should have a lot of dialogue and consider various viewpoints in legislation. Thought I'd like to think I'm always right, it's possible that other viewpoints would help me reach better decisions. Other viewpoints force me to think things through more thoroughly and more carefully. That is probably also true with a Democratic Congress.

In addition, people need to feel they've had some input into the process in order to support the result. If they feel they were ignored or "rolled over", they will not only not support it, they will actively work to sabotage it.

[Skarbrowe]

6. Yes. I do tend to think they are trying to keep their powder dry. But..

that can backfire if it goes on too long. And as you said, they are busy doing some things, just not having any success fighting the big fights with the smirky Dictator. Damn... I was trying not to get snarky. I think that most of us have such a hatred for George W. Bush that every lost fight between the Democrats and Bush cuts much deeper than it might under different circumstances. It was just good to hear someone address one of the main reasons the Democrats have been so stifled. It could also be that some of them are complicit in having a reason to keep this war going. I hope not. I realize that there are things going on at the top that would blow everyone's mind. All we can do is try and fight what we can see. I think.

[Big Blue Marble]

7. The problem is not the size of the Democratic majority.

It is the size of the Republicans' megaphone and the effective way that they use it especially on talk radio.
The Dems have only had over twenty years to counter this effect, but remain ineffective and timid as rabbits.
What actually do they have to lose by standing up to the Republicans? Are they being controlled by consultants,
polls, and focus groups? They look desperate and on the run. They do not look ready to lead this country at
a time of the greatest multiple crises we have ever faced.

And what are they without their base? I for one am currently and completely alienated. I have proudly supported this party
since the 70's with my time, money, and my votes. No more time or money and they are really pushing me
hard on whether I will vote the ticket at the national level or go third party.

[Skarbrowe]

9. I am not happy with the Dems either, but I never want another "Bush" to

get through. The way our government is set up, I have no choice, well I do have a choice, but if I want to keep something like a Bush or a Guiliani out of office, I have to vote for the Democratic Party. I can't allow myself to think that the Dems have turned me off so completely that I will not vote for anyone or for a no-chance third party. Yep, they sure do have us over a barrell. I honestly believe things have changed drastically from 10 years ago or more about it not making that much difference what party is in office: that someone else is running everything anyway.

I remember being shocked when I found out Reagan had put a gag order on American doctors working in other countries. It was against the law to say the word abortion or suggest abortion in family planning. Excuse me if I am not remembering that correctly. My mind was blown because I couldn't figure out how they could tell someone, anyone, NOT to say a certain word. It was then I realized that it did make some kind of difference in what party had power. The Judicial branch is highly effected by the administration in charge. It will take years to try and undo the damage in what kind of judges have been appointed all over the country in the past six years.

No party is ever going to make everyone happy. Politics is a blood sport. heh

[Old and In the Way]

15. It's counter-intuitive, but the answer is - More Democrats!

As long as the Republicans vote as a monolythic block, we can over-ride vetoes. The structural advantage the RW has in the traditional media is killing us. Matthews is pushing the simplistic line: "the people elected Democrats to stop the war and they haven't" lets Bush and the rubberstamping Republicans in Congress completely off the hook. The next time Matthews ask a Republican, "the American people demanded you stop the war based on the results of the last election....why are you continuing to support Bush and fund this illegal and immoral war?", I'll be shocked.

[CCfromNY]

8. It's puzzling why...

...with the Republican party so in the toilet at this point in time,

that so many of these Democrats seem so reluctant to emphasize, let alone act on, their differences from the Republicans.

[Skarbrowe]

10. Maybe those wiretaps worked in the Republicans favor.

Nah, I don't really think that. hmmmm The Democrats do need to raise their voice. They need to make some noise. They passed a raise in the minimum raise, they are working hard to insure children get healthcare and I think they should be pounding a way on what they want to do about Iraq. If the Democrats are sitting back and waiting for the war to continue to go badly to pick up seats in November '08, well then, that would be disturbing to say the least. Personally, I think they do see the difficulty in getting out of Iraq. Hopefully they are waiting ONLY to get complete control in Jan. 09 and then......what? I don't envy anyone inheriting the mess Bush has made.

[Arugula Latte]

14. Welcome to DU CC!

:toast: :hi: