Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.

[madfloridian]

From The Buzz, the picture of the Screw Dean button shows such class.

Fuming over Howard Dean

This is the state Democratic Convention. It is supposed to be a serious event. I find those buttons offensive.

These are a sampling of the buttons scattered among the Democratic activists at the Florida Democratic convention at Disney, where Mike Gravel is the only presidential candidate willing to show his or her face : "I think it definitely will hurt us in Florida. People are getting, really angry,'' said Marsha Berdit, a retired teacher in Jacksonville said of the Democrats' boycotting Florida's Jan. 29 primary.

"Hillary ought to ask her husband. He didn't blow us off,'' said Arlene Farachio, another Jacksonville retiree at a grassroots birthday party for Hillary Clinton. The cake is pictured.

State party communications director Mark Bubriski says if he sees any media reporters from Iowa, he'll bar them from the event.

Also at the event was Matt Stoller of Open Left, whose recent attack post on Dean left many shaking their heads wondering why.

Matt Stoller's attack on Dean is using Florida party talking points.

I won't post any of his post. He posted another today, saying he was eager to get to Florida to learn about the primary stuff. Sounds like his mind was already made up.

This has been a terrible time in our state to see the way the state Democrats broke the rules deliberately, worked with the GOP to do so. And then accused Dean of stealing our votes. Amazing how many fell for it all.

I put many of the posts I wrote about the primary tragedy into one post to keep track of them.

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.

I can not believe they proudly displayed a button that said screw the chairman of the party. Classy, very classy.

[LoZoccolo]

1. People should not be able to make their own buttons.

Howard Dean should come down on the grassroots activists responsible for this.

[madfloridian]

6. I agree, not at the official convention. It should be a proper event.

.

[William769]

114. You mean the official convention where their votes aren't going to count?

Is that the Official convention you are talking about?

[babylonsister]

99. Yes, they should be able to make whatever they want. Free country,

remember that? I get pissed when citizens are censored at speaking events, now you want to censor people with buttons?

Having said that, blaming Dean for this mess isn't fair IMO.

[QC]

106. Only buttons approved by the Central Committee should be worn. n/t

[cigsandcoffee]

113. That sounds like something from 1984. n/t

[QC]

118. Precisely! n/t

[madeline_con]

2. "I find those buttons offensive."

I call them a form of free speech.

[madfloridian]

5. Well, well, well, well, well.

I find it harmful to our party.

I guess some don't see a big picture.

[madeline_con]

7. Is it the party motto?

So, a few people wear a button. End of the world.

[madfloridian]

8. I have a couple of words.

Bye bye.

[madeline_con]

9. So, you're dismissing me?

You're drunk with imagined power.

:rofl:

[ChiciB1]

123. My Words Too!! I've Opted Out Of Everything I Participated In With

Floridian candidates AND now National candidates! Not only here in Florida, but the whole country has gone bat shit crazy! This far out of the GE, WE are being told WHO the nominees will be and far too many citizens just don't care nor do they even realize how Democracy is dying in America!

I have no control or voice anymore, so when the shit hits the fan, all I can say is "I tried" but now have to live with the mistakes that OTHERS made! I don't know WHERE to go, but I don't think THIS Democratic Party is one I even know anymore! Going Independent won't do much either, you're just Independent and don't have a "hint" of a leader OR a machine to further an agenda! I'll be checking in here at DU to see how bad it's getting, but posting a viewpoint seems pretty useless especially is you don't happen to be a Hillary supporter!

And yeah, I know... don't let the door hit you on the way out! Blech!!
:grr: :grr:

[dansolo]

134. Just like the purple heart bandaids?

[rusty quoin]

3. That pisses me off.

[phen43]

4. Wow!!

Boy, there's sure a lot I don't know about!! Amazing info!!

[durrrty libby]

10. What do dems care about.? Anything?

[madfloridian]

17. Nothing.

.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. Yeah

It's OK to viciously attack Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Pelosi and Reid, but god forbid anybody diss Howard Dean!!! That's just unacceptable!

[madfloridian]

12. It is a state convention. There should be protocol of some sort.

Sorry you feel that way. I don't attack the ones you mention.

DU is showing its very bad side this week.

[MonkeyFunk]

13. Oh puh-leeeze

DU has been showing its bad side for months, if not years. You didn't give a shit until St. Howard of Burlington was oh-so-very-slightly-attacked with a button.

[madfloridian]

14. You really are bitter. This is about the party overall.

Now I remember why I did what I did once. Bye.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. *I'M* bitter?

you can't get over 2004!

I'm just pointing out that compared to the shit the main candidates, Pelosi and Reid take here on a daily basis, a pin that's not complimentary of Howard Dean is pretty damn small potatoes.

But then, you spend every waking hour scouring the internet for news of your hero, so I understand you have some sort of attachment.

But in the big scheme, this is meaningless. And in the bigger scheme, I'm not nearly as bitter as you. I got over the last election by December, 2004. You're still fighting it.

[LoZoccolo]

18. This is not about Howard Dean. This is bigger.

This grassroots movement to "screw Dean" needs to be dealt with.

[madfloridian]

23. It appears to be mostly a FL and MI movement...

And I sort of differ as it is leader inspired. The grassroots still hasn't gotten the true story, all the media presents is the state party's side.

[LoZoccolo]

25. What has become of us when even the grassroots is decieved?

Disinformation has obviously traveled faster than the truth. I wait for someone to tell the truth. Perhaps my waiting is in vain.

[madfloridian]

27. Well, I have tried in my OP above to include all I have written

Unfortunately, I have no access to the media other than online.

The bloggers here got right on board with the party, and even though they know what went on, they never wrote about it.

[durrrty libby]

28. OMFG...

I love the MerFer

[Hippo_Tron]

135. I'm sure that's the way Mayor Daley felt about the protestors in '68

I agree with you about the stupidity of Florida and Michigan Democrats trying to collapse the primary system in an open year instead of waiting until 2012 when we will likely have an incumbent Dem President.

But people should be allowed to wear the buttons that they want to.

[madfloridian]

136. That goes to personal taste. I can tell I am in the minority here.

I think to wear it at a party convention, when they have hurt so many of us...and have done real harm to party unity.. is in poor taste.

I despise Bill Nelson, but as a Democrat I would not wear a button that said screw him.

It is tasteless and shows no class.

But if that is how it is going to be, so be it.

Tasteless and ugly, the word of the day. We hurt our own worse than the Republicans ever have.

[madfloridian]

16. Amazingly, this seems acceptable.

To me that shows how far down a road we have gone to accepting anything as ok.

It just seems ok to some, doesn't bother them. They think I am posting it because it is about Dean.

Some just don't see the danger to the party when a leader is insulted like that.

That's too bad. But I think it shows where our country is.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. How many times

have you stood up against the vicious attacks on Clinton here?

Isn't it just awful when a leader is attacked? Aren't you worried about the danger to the party that results?

What a pantload of false sanctimony.

[LoZoccolo]

21. There is a battle within the party.

On one side is the grassroots. On the other side is everybody else.

This is beyond being a sad day. Depressing, really.

[MonkeyFunk]

24. Nah

the "grassroots" isn't a bunch of keyboard-warriors. Everybody likes to think they're the "roots", but no single faction can claim that title. We're a coalition party.

[LoZoccolo]

26. We have spoken, we have supported, and then we are dismissed.

Dismissed as one of several. Get in line, there are four more of you ahead of you. We should have seen it coming.

[phen43]

20. I see the danger

Right there with you on this one!!

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tomreedtoon]

22. What is the Florida Democratic Party like?

I've been living in this state since 1976. I've seen practically nothing from the Democratic Party here. And as someone who works in TV, I've seen my share of politicians, although the Democratic ones seem to slip by so rapidly, like Kwai Chang Caine on Kung Fu, leaving no footprints as they sneak around on rice paper.

I know that the Party hasn't run anyone effective for Governor. I read a column in one of the local "free newspapers" (you know, the ones supported by gay dating services and tattoo parlors) supposedly written by the last Democratic gubernatorial candidate. I can't say he was passsionate about anything, including his loss to Jeb Bush. I think his column was about his love of puppies.

From the above events, including the end of the Florida Primary and the disenfranchisement of all the Democratic voters in this state, I can only assume that the Florida Democratic Party is a stealth operation of the Florida Republican Party. At least I know the Republicans exist. They have a headquarters in a shopping strip mall.

[iamjoy]

130. Are You Kidding?

In 2006, we took 7 Florida House seats and 2 US House seats (from incumbent Republicans). We elected Alex Sink to CFO - and she won handily. Earlier this year, we took back another state house seat in a secial election.

In special elections next month Stephen Bacalleo (mostly Seminole) and Linda McDonald (Collier) are campaigning hard to up our numbers in the state house. Michael Calderin came all the way from Dade County to Orlando to walk for Darren Soto, now he is running in his own state house district (Nov 2008).

When people ask where the Democrats are, I wonder if they are looking and what they are doing to help increase our visibility within the state.

[IndianaJones]

29. perhaps a purge is in order. nt.

[MonkeyFunk]

31. We need to bring back the blasphemy statutes.

[IndianaJones]

32. this will surely compromise The Party. nt.

[QC]

109. This will further embolden the running dogs of imperialism in their

efforts to subvert the glorious people's revolution!

[madfloridian]

33. Some of the responses in this thread remind me why I retired from teaching

It was like there was no modicum of respect...no understanding of what respect was. There was no understanding of what is right and what is wrong.

[cuke]

34. Ahh, the times, they are a-changing

When I was a lad, I was taught to respect my elders and other authorities and to maintain the proper decorum at public events. Then I grew up, and I no longer see the same respect and decorum. I long for the days when life was more simple and care-free

[QC]

107. Damn kids! Get off my lawn! n/t

[cuke]

124. Wait till your father gets home!! nt

[MonkeyFunk]

35. And yet

people call Nancy Pelosi a corporate whore, and nary a peep out of you. They repeat the worst right-wing lies about Hillary Clinton, and you're silent.

but somebody makes a pin that disses your hero, and it's suddenly the end of civility and the fall of the party.

Your selective outrage is funny.

[phen43]

36. really, quite a few immature lads (lasses)

Hey guys (gals) head over to the picture post and make fun of my picture!! I would so appreciate it as a true welcoming gift!!

[cuke]

37. Sorry, no can do

You're too close to Jerry's guitar. Blasphemy to spread bad vibes in it's vicinity

[phen43]

38. well, you can't be all bad, you like Jerry

[cuke]

39. Oh yes I can

Give me a little time to practice

[w4rma]

40. DLCers are trying to pick fights with progressives. (nt)

[MonkeyFunk]

41. LOL

so anybody who doesn't love former DLC-member Howard Dean is now a DLC'er and an enemy of the people?

[w4rma]

42. The DLC tried very very hard to keep Dean from winnning the chairmanship. They also have worked

very hard to take credit from him for successes that he has accomplished. They attacked his 50-state plan relentlessly until it worked and then tried to blame the 50-state plan for not winning even more. This is just an attack from another angle for the DLC.

[MonkeyFunk]

43. What evidence do you have

that the button was created by the DLC?

If the DLC were one-tenth as powerful as some people seem to believe, Hillary would've been elected President in 2000.

[LoZoccolo]

44. 43% of DUers believe that the DLC fed the tape of the Dean scream to the media.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3349253

I don't even know what it means to feed the tape to the media in the context of it being a recording of an event that was broadcast live, but there you have it.

[w4rma]

47. The DLC is a non-partisan lobbying organization for big business interests. They never liked Dean.

He said too many things and would have done too many things as President that wouldn't allow them to expand their power and might have reduced it.

That said, the best the DLC could have done in the case of that live playback of a directional microphone, would have been to okay its use.

[MonkeyFunk]

65. How could the DLC

even "OK" the use of a news video of a news event that was broadcast live?

The scream was repeated on TV because it was noteworthy. The DLC had nothing to do with it, and nobody can show that the pin being discussed here was created by the DLC.

Isn't it possible some Floridians are just not happy with the DNC?

BTW, I think Dean is absolutely right on this issue.

[ozone_man]

70. I think he's refering to the direct microphone feed

which didn't have any crowd noise pickup that Dean was trying to speak over. From the floor Dean could hardly be heard, but from the microphone feed, it sounded like he was screaming.

[MonkeyFunk]

72. Yes

I've heard that excuse.

But I'm wondering how the DLC had anything to do with it. I watched it live on TV and was floored by it. I knew right away it was going to be played again and again. And I'm not in the DLC.

[moondust]

45. The stuff of small children.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[cobalt1999]

46. Good for them.

Thanks for posting, it gave me a smile this morning.

If the national committee meetings don't listen to the people's dissatisfaction with this crappy primary process, they get everything they deserve.

[cali]

48. baloney

Florida dems agreed to the process for this cycle, and btw, SC and Nevada were added. The time to work this out is not after you've reneged on your word.

[cobalt1999]

51. B.S.

Dean had to promise to protect Iowa & NH to even get the post as chairman. The time for everyone bowing down to them is ending.

The people here in Florida have been extremely mad about the primary protection of the select few states since 2004. Whatever arm twisting happened in those backroom committee meetings did NOT represent our desires.

A few representatives to the committee were overridden by the entire state legislature with huge approval from the population of Florida.

Now, instead of working on a compromise, Dean goes along with "pledges" from candidates that go far beyond anything in the agreed upon rules. So, baloney on your post.

[cali]

54. bullshit right back at you

down there in Florida. Whether Dean had to make promises to Iowa and NH is immaterial- not that you provided any evidence to bolster your argument. The point is that Florida went along with the schedule and then reneged. Now that's some bullshit.

[cobalt1999]

57. No, you are spinning some B.S.

Show me where it is in the rules that candidates should remove their names from the ballot in Michigan, or other aspects of the pledge. I'll wait for your link.

If not, then it's not just the states deviating from the rules and if it is also the national party, why are you so inconsistent in your blame? Where's the leadership of Dean to stop the additional sanctions? That is some bullshit too, but you're being to hypocritical to admit it.

I, at least, admit the rules (as the subcommittee members agreed upon) have been broken. You fail to see anything but one side.

[madfloridian]

71. Here is a snip to the new rules.

"The regular window will open for all other states on the first Tuesday in February -- February 5, 2008.

Presidential Candidate Sanctions on the Window
There is a new rule that imposes new sanctions on presidential candidates. If a state, any state, violates the rule on timing/the window, presidential candidates will face sanctions if they campaign in that state. Examples of campaigning include: making personal appearances in the state, hiring campaign workers, and buying advertising and so on.

Currently, the only punishment for states that violate the window was on State Parties. This new enforcement provision recognizes that presidential candidates must also bear a responsibility in enforcing the window or face sanctions."

http://dnc.org:80/a/2006/08/highlights_of_t.php

[cobalt1999]

75. Where in those rules do the candidates have to remove their names from the Michigan ballot?

Not there is it?

That was a esculation in the conflict that Dean could have worked to stop or speak out against. Instead, he went above and beyond what was agreed upon.

I'll wait for a link to that rule.

[madfloridian]

80. Removing their names was their own choice.

Dean had nothing to do with it. What made you think he did? He let the rules committee make the rules...their job. He let the 447+ members vote on them...their job.

He is enforcing the rules...his job.

Hillary will take FL and MI easily. That was the whole purpose of it all. The ones in Florida who pushed it are Hillary campaign people.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1562

Wasserman Schultz, Alcee Hastings are co chairs. Nelson who is pushing the main lawsuit is a supporter.

[cobalt1999]

82. Oh don't be naive.

Dean is supposed to be the leader and he didn't know they were doing that? Wouldn't he try to de-escalate this conflict? Now you post some conspiracy that it was all Hillary people?

I knew debating this with you was a waste of time, you are too emotionally involved.

Anyway, got to run, the family is ready and the boat is waiting. Have a good day!

[cobalt1999]

58. Oh, here is a few quotes backing up my point

Probably more backup than you can provide for yours...

''I support the Iowa caucus, and I have already promised Gordon Fischer that if elected, the Iowa caucus will be first again in 2008,'' he said, referring to the state's Democratic chairman." query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07E2D91F31F93AA35752C0A9629C8B63

[cali]

63. As I said: Immaterial

FL agreed to the schedule before they reneged.

[cobalt1999]

64. Still waiting to see the where "the pledge" fits in those rules...

* crickets *

I thought so.

[w4rma]

49. This mismatch of primaries leap frogging over one another is dumb, but so is Florida leap frogging

over other states and the rules that Florida agreed to in the beginning dumb, also. Anyway, Florida should be the last state in the primary process considering what their corrupt elections process has done over the past 7 years.

[cobalt1999]

52. The leaping frogging is dumb.

I'm hoping it gets so out of hand, that the entire process gets rebuilt in 2012 without Iowa and NH position being considered some sacred cow.

As for your opinion of Florida, I won't publicly respond what I think of you.

[w4rma]

53. You disagree that Florida's corrupt elections subverted the will of Florida's citizens and gave us

7 years of Bush?

[cobalt1999]

56. Elections issues appear in every state.

Florida wouldn't have even been noticed if the elections wasn't so close here. If Kerry had fought Ohio as long as Gore fought Florida, Ohio would have the same reputation.

Even though no state is perfect and Florida is far from perfect, saying we all need to go last is insulting...THAT is what I disagree with.

[w4rma]

59. Florida has been the state with the worst election system ever since before Reconstruction. (nt)

[cobalt1999]

62. Wow, are you on another planet (nt)

[w4rma]

66. Do you not know your own state's history on voter disenfranchisement? (nt)

[cobalt1999]

67. I know Florida isn't perfect. You obviously don't know how bad other states are also.

Here are some reports on the entire nation for your education (since you obviously need it).

www.ncsl.org/programs/press/2001/electref0801.htm
www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=14425

Once you educate yourself, you'll see Florida doesn't rank as bad as you think.

[w4rma]

68. Give me some quotes of what you think has historically been worse, not books.

I don't have time to search for needles in haystacks.

[cobalt1999]

69. Since you won't bother to do your own reading...

Jeez, you come on here spouting opinions without evidence. You won't read and educate yourself even when I hand feed you the links. *sigh*

I give you two examples and I'm done with arguing with someone who isn't fact based.

Louisiana has been (and still is) ranked much worse than Florida.
Illinois has been the subject of more voting fraud accusations historically than Florida.

Again, if you want to continue this, debate logically...don't toss out accusations without backup, refuse to read, and embarrass yourself.

[madfloridian]

77. How do you feel about Florida lying and blaming Dean?

Does that bother you at all?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1562

I have a whole list of posts I wrote in the OP. There is no doubt Florida planned it with the GOP and then lied and blamed Dean.

Does that bother you at all?

[cobalt1999]

81. There was no good solution.

Either, abide by an unfair primary process that people do not want, or break the National Committee rules and mutiny.

You & I have totally different viewpoints on this. You don't care what the people in this state want, you only care how it impacts Dean. I don't agree with following unfair sub-committee rules that the vast majority disagree with, even if it means some pain.

Besides, I'm tired of debating this with you. It's your pet issue and you post it over and over here, but remember you are in the very small minority here in Florida that disagrees with what we did.

[w4rma]

84. The whole primary process should be revamped. Florida should not go first, however. (nt)

[madfloridian]

85. Yes, it is my "pet issue." Florida lied, and they should not get away with it.

The bloggers were on board with the state party, like it was all planned...well it was.

You keep on putting me down for standing up for what is right, it just does not bother me.

If that is all you can throw at me, it is not a real answer to why Florida broke the rules and sent out emails saying Dean stole the vote.

It is childish for a state to act like that.

[cobalt1999]

95. Oh, now you're going down the "conspiracy theory" path, huh?

Doesn't surprise me. When some folks run out of facts, they invoke conspiracies. LOL,have fun making your tin-foil hat.

[madfloridian]

96. You are insulting everyone today, aren't you?

Just one insulting post after the other.

:rofl:

[ChiciB1]

125. Excuse Me!! Call It Her "Pet Issue" Or Call It What You Want... I Live

here too, and I also live in THE COUNTY that seems to have lost 18,000 PLUS votes in a Congressional election! While I wasn't "crazy" about Christine Jennings, I joined in her fight to correct the mess! THIS county was also THE COUNTY who GOT Katherine "Cruella" Harris for two terms, and probably would have gotten her again had she not decided to run for Senator! AND a Senator who sidles up to ANYONE D or R who will advance his future!!

I clearly remember his remarks right AFTER Martinez became Senator, in ANOTHER very close election!! But BEFORE Martinez won, he was WITH Betty Castor everywhere she went! After the election Nelson couldn't wait to say how much he "liked" Martinez and was looking forward to "working" with him! AND NOW HE IS!!!

[iamjoy]

131. I'm Ticked About The Misrepresentation

The Florida party DID misrepresent the facts of the issue, yes, fine, call it lied.

But, I do believe the truth is nothing would have changed the outcome of the Primary date.

OK, so it was a Democrat who sponsored the motion for 01/29/08. But that's like saying Democrats aren't anti-war because Joe Lieberman sponsored the amendment on Iran.

OK, so Democratic legislators should have protested the move - but with a Republican majority of 78 to 42, do you really think it would have made a difference in the end?

If indeed Thurman and other FDP members ignored Dean, that was foolish. But again, would that have changed the outcome? What were they supposed to do?

Imposing the sanctions of stripping Florida delegates is still wrong because millions of Florida voters had absolutely NOTHING to do with setting the primary rules or picking the primary date, yet we are the ones who lose out on our vote counting.

Finally, although I am mad at the FDP for deceiving us, I am also mad at Dean for ignoring us. He could have sent all Florida Democrats on his mailing list an e-mail explaining why he took the action he did. Please don't say he didn't want to attack the FDP, he could have made his case in a gentlemanly way. He would have gained points for that, being calm and rational when the FDP and Florida Democratic leaders were throwing around all that rhetoric. But he didn't. Now the way I see it, that's either because he doesn't have the courage or doesn't care about Florida voters.

[w4rma]

83. To avoid quibbling over minor details I'll just amend my statement to say "one of the worst".

My points still stand.

[cobalt1999]

94. LOL, I thought your point was Florida was the worst.

Did you read any of those reports? 37 states are below standards! 37!

Do you have any idea of the changes already put in place here in Florida since 2000 and 2004? Wait...that would require reading on your part...nevermind. Amazing the ignorance some people proudly display.

:shrug:

[Alexander]

129. Florida election fraud was implicated in at least 3 presidential elections...

as the main reason why one candidate beat another.

1876, 2000 and 2004.

They got more complaints regarding voter disenfranchisement in 2004 than almost any other state.

And even in 2006, Vern Buchanan managed to steal a US House seat.

Florida is, quite frankly, pitiful when it comes to protecting the right to vote of its citizens - particularly those of color. This didn't start in 2000 - it's been going on for 150 years.

[robcon]

50. I agree with the sentiment: "Screw Dean," as well as "Screw the FL Democratic Party."

There could have been a joint press conference outlining a compromise between the two organizations.

Instead there's sniping, backstabbing and rancor that is totally unnecessary and counterproductive. A huge missed opportunity. When we needed leadership and cool heads, we got competing press releases blaming the other organization.

[madfloridian]

73. Dean tried to talk with them for months. They publicly blew him off.

The state leaders were rude to him in public.

I am sorry you think it is ok for Florida to act this way. That is scary so many here think that.

[cuke]

104. I disagree

I get your point, and it's a good one, but IMO as soon as the party agreed to change the primary schedule, this whole mess was bound to happen. Like a slo-mo train wreck

[IndianaGreen]

55. And the DNC told Democrats in Florida and Michigan to get screwed!

What's sauce for the goose, its sauce for the gander.

Imagine all of that is because of the irrational support of Iowa and New Hampshire always being first.

[w4rma]

60. I do not want any large state go first. And I definitely don't want Florida to be first. (nt)

[IndianaGreen]

86. The only fair system is one of rotating regional primaries

No more of this Iowa and New Hampshire first nonsense!

Retail politics in those two states only serves two purposes:

1. It inflates the egos of the residents.

2. I fills the pockets of the local merchants.

The Presidential elections do not have retail politics. A candidate that does well in Iowa and New Hampshire may well turn out to be a LOSER and a total DUD when having to sell himself/herself at the wholesale level, as it is done in the Presidential elections. Just look at the winning gems we got from Iowa and New Hampshire!

In 1992, Governor Bill Clinton did not win Iowa or New Hampshire, which should tell you a lot about why we shouldn't put so much emphasis on the judgment of the voters in those two small states.

Sure, Iowan DUers will tell you that people still get a chance to vote for their candidate of their choice, and that they are not responsible for the MSM salivating over the winner of their caucus. This misses the point! Having anyone go first, particularly small states which are so unrepresentative of the US as a whole, skews the results and produces a stampede whose end result has been having DUers complain about how an election was stolen, rather than how the primary process produced such a fatally flawed nominee.

[QC]

110. Excellent post. n/t

[PassingFair]

87. Bull*hit!

Voters in Michigan want a PRIMARY. We don't CARE if we are FIRST or LAST.

We have made resolutions in county executive meetings across the state to
go back to a caucus primary. We are being ignored.

DLC backed governor Granholm wants a virtually unopposed WIN for Clinton
on the "primary".

The constituents in Michigan are ANGRY at Levin's unseemly push for "1st place"
in the primary at this time.

Let him play chicken with New Hampshire some other time.

In our meeting in the 12th district there was NOT ONE PERSON, let me repeat
NOT ONE PERSON, who favored Levin's stance at this time.

We resolved to move back to the caucus. ALL OF US.

We want ALL the candidates on the ballot.

[ellacott]

61. If the candidates won't campaign in florida

and michigan the Repubs could use this to their advantage. It could potentially turn those states the right and we would lose those electoral votes.

[madfloridian]

74. Florida was on board with this plan from March 2006. They said so.

Now they are blaming Dean and the DNC and lying through their teeth.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1562

I notice those who want 3rd party are having a great good time on this thread.

Anything to divide the rest of us.

One who called me a Good German is thinking that button is a great thing.

There appears to be not much room here at DU for standing up for what is right.

[Vickers]

76. I have no problem with Dean, but the "No Vote No Money" thing is OK with me.

Ever since this whole brouhaha, I decided that I would not contribute to anyone until after the primary season.

[madfloridian]

78. Are you saying the Screw Dean sign is ok? I think it shows stupidity

?

[Vickers]

79. No, I posted "I have no problem with Dean"

Translated that means, "I have no problem with Dean."

Hope this helps.

[madfloridian]

88. The fact that so many here think buttons like that are ok at a state convention

shows how our forum, our party, and our country has changed.

:shrug:

[QC]

89. How dare they blaspheme our Lord and Savior!

FWIW, I like Dean a lot and don't like Bill Nelson at all, but this nonstop outrage over politics getting personal is just silly.

As Harry Truman was fond of saying, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

[madfloridian]

90. Lies by my state, and stupid childish slogans on button.

So that is politics now?

Thanks for clarifying.

I hear folks are tired of my posting about Florida's propaganda.

Too effing bad.

[QC]

92. Probably not tired so much as creeped out.

There really is a disturbingly obsessive quality to all this.

[madfloridian]

93. Yeh, my state lied and people try to get me to hush by saying I am obessed

And it has never worked. It won't work.

We have lost friends here because we stood up and said, hey, Florida was in on this from the start with the Republicans.

Sorry you feel the way you do, but it just does not matter.

To see a state launch such a massive campaign of lies and propaganda, and then to see me blamed for posting about it should open some eyes.

[madfloridian]

97. I find it disturbing that you don't find childish button snark disturbing

How about that? I find it disturbing that you find it disturbing that I stand up for truth and honesty in my state's activities.

How about that?

I am sick to death of patronizing people taking sensible posts I write and turning it into a way to bash me.

:puke:

[1monster]

101. It's a bit of an over reaction to an inelegantly expressed opinion.

Don't we, who live in Florida, have enough troubles with people trashing our state and boycotting our state and with the constant slurs ("Floriduh", "Not Florida again?" "Why is it always Florida?" etc. ad nauseum) without YOU, a Floridian, contantly trashing it too?

Give it a rest. The button may be childish, undignified, and snarky, but it isn't a BIG deal in the scheme of things.

You've lost your cool on this issue. Take a few very deep breaths, exit DU and all of your news sources for a couple of days and find something to do that has nothing at all to do with state or federal politics.

Then, when you have rested up and calmed down, reenter the forum. But remember, your outrage is not shared by the majority of Floridians.

(For the record, I'm angry at both the state and federal Democratic officials who have played a stupid game of brinkmanship. The state leadership should have staged their rebellion far earlier in committee, and Howard Dean should have shown some of that creative, innovative problem solving we've been told he has to deal with the problem in a way that didn't punish the voters. I don't like Bill Nelson--he votes against our interests too often. But I don't like Dean either. They are both shameless politicians who are looking out for THEIR interests rather than our interests.)

[madfloridian]

102. When propaganda is ok, and telling the truth is "trashing"...

then friend we do have problems.

No, as long as this state is proud of buttons that say Screw the chairman, I will speak out.

I never cared much for MCAuliffe, but he would not have deserved that either.

For Bill Nelson to use the podium there to bash Dean and the early states some more is just plain damn selfish.

I will not hush. I will not allow 2 or 3 of you to intimidate me into not speaking out on this issue.

Florida goofed badly. Many are very angry. I know.

[1monster]

111. Whatever...

I didn't trash you. I just suggested that you take a few steps back from the issue for a few days.

But do whatever you want to.

[madfloridian]

112. Thank you, I will not need to step back.

Every word I have written is well researched and true. I try never to deal in propaganda, and I think Florida has been very guilty of that.

I have had to fight virtually alone to make any points, as the bloggers are on board with the state party. I am finding out more on why, but not ready to post about that yet.

[madfloridian]

91. I am not done yet, either.

So as the saying goes here at DU...get over it.

[tnlefty]

98. Our county fundraising dinner is coming up in early Nov.

and if anyone had a button like that not only about the national party chair, but about any of the candidates, I would be very pissed, and this is just a party dinner and not the state convention.

Tacky, very tacky.

[madfloridian]

105. Yes, tacky is a very good word.

I appreciate your comment as many in this thread are pulling the old you post too much about Dean thingy to hush me.

Bill Nelson attacked Dean from the podium today. He also attacked the first four states.

It is crude and tasteless and thanks for noticing. That is not what a state convention is for.

The uglier Florida gets, the more I will post. It is embarrassing.

[bigwillq]

100. As much as I love Dean

These buttons don't bother me. People are free to make up whatever buttons they want to. Maybe people are not satisifed with him just as some people here are not about Pelosi and Reid.

I may not agree with the Dean haters on this one but I think they are free to make the buttons.

[madfloridian]

103. Not to display them at a convention. They should not use the convention for that.

I am sorry, but I am noticing there is a movement afoot here to make me feel bad about posting about Florida and its imbecilic moves lately.

Won't work.

Actually this is not anymore about Dean than about any party leader.

[NovemberRain]

108. That's politics for ya.

That's politics for ya.

[William769]

115. I'm pissed theres not one that says hey Dean, go FUCK yourself!

:mad:

ON EDIT: As a Florida Democrat, I would be proud to wear it.

[madfloridian]

126. That remark is almost as classy as multiple lawsuits against one's own party.

:shrug:

Florida...the state known for not being classy.

[William769]

127. Yea it's just as classy as saying screw you your vote won't count.

[madfloridian]

128. Just as classy as deliberately breaking party rules and using propaganda

to put the blame elsewhere.

Let's face it. Florida is once again showing it has no class.

Victor's lawsuit which was turned down but which he said will be appealed because it is like taking the first bite of the apple...classy.

Bill Nelson's lawsuit which is using racism as a basis...classy.

Using the Florida State Convention as an attack podium to ridicule the chairman and the national party....priceless.

[William769]

132. Not letting people's votes count, trumps all!

Thats why shortly after the Presidential election Dean will be nothing more than a memory.

[madfloridian]

133. Those words tell me so very much about the reason for this.

These words will be shared around, as I think it verifies what many of us thought.

That the plan is to squash him and the activist wing of the party like an iddy biddy bug. You verifed it.

The lawsuits are meant to harass and bring a financial cost.

The sad part is that the party's loss will be staggering if people who think like you are the winners.

You don't scare me, you make me sad for what we have become.

[William769]

137. Dean is what makes me sad.

Thank God he got his ass beat in 2004!

[The Backlash Cometh]

116. God bless you MadFloridian.

I know how disheartening it is to have to read these things, but thanks for your reporting.

[NastyDiaper]

117. I (Floridian) support Dean's position on this.

But I can hardly call it an outrage to disagree.

Big state leapfrogging will just make it more about money, name recognition, and MSM self-fulfilling precept.

[Arkana]

119. This takes me back to those Purple Heart Band-Aids

from the Republican National Convention in '04.

Totally tasteless, classless, and completely insulting.

[madfloridian]

120. I agree about that. Our party is taking up the tactics of humiliation

and ridicule. Just like the GOP under Rove has done for years.

It is painful to read some of the comments in this thread, but they don't surprise me anymore.

[madfloridian]

121. Fliers saying not to donate to DNC or to candidates were passed out at convention

Using a convention to pass out fliers saying to withhold money? That is in worse taste than the emails they sent out saying to stop donations.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/florida/story/287117.html

"The party bosses have barred them from campaigning here, except for private fundraisers,'' said U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, eliciting jeers from the crowd and touting his lawsuit against the national party.

In his speech, Nelson cited a recent Quinnipiac University poll in which 22 percent of independent voters said they are less likely to vote for a Democrat for president because of the DNC's refusal to seat Florida convention delegates.

After his speech, longtime activist Jack Shifrel of Coconut Creek handed out fliers urging Democrats to withhold donations from the national party and the candidates."

And State Democratic Minority Leader Steve Geller proudly wore his "Size Matters" button when he spoke.


State Sen. Steve Geller, the Senate minority leader from Cooper City, speaks to Florida Democratic Convention delegates in Lake Buena Vista.

Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller at one point wryly warned Democrats to curb any overt enthusiasm for presidential candidates lest a newspaper reporter from Iowa spot them.

"Make sure you don't let them see your signs, or we'll all be in trouble," quipped Geller, sporting on his lapel a defiant "Size DOES Matter" button depicting the state of Florida towering over Iowa and New Hampshire.

....."Many Florida Democrats expressed their view of the DNC chairman by wearing a button showing a large screw running through the words "Howard Dean."

[AngryAmish]

122. This is Florida, what do you expect?

[TheDoorbellRang]

138. Hang in there, madfloridian

I agree with you on all of this 100%. K&R