Gaywired: Bye-Bye Barack! Obama walks tightrope, compromises gay & lesbian voters

[Bluebear]

11/01/2007
By Duane Wells

Barack Obama has built his entire presidential campaign around being something of a Washington outsider. However, after the events of this past weekend—which found the senator whoring himself out to conservative Christian cronies with the help of ex-gay gospel rabble rouser Donnie McClurkin—one can’t help but to wonder if Mr. Obama is nothing more than a Washington insider dressed in an outsider’s clothes.

How else do you explain away the good senator’s decision to sacrifice gay and lesbian rights on the altar of the almighty voting block that is the right-leaning southern African American Christian constituency?

Barack Obama is asking that we accept him as a champion of LGBT rights and a friend to the community. But that ship simply does not float. I don’t know about you, but I don’t have friends that blatantly disrespect me or force me to question their allegiance. Call me crazy, but I like friends that are straight shooters, something Barack Obama has now proven himself to be anything but.

I never thought I’d say this, but Mr. Obama’s duplicitous stance on gay and lesbian rights circa the Donnie McClurkin controversy has given me something of an appreciation for George W. Bush’s no-nonsense approach to politics. I may not agree with a thing that comes out of curious George’s mouth, but at least he doesn’t piss in my cornflakes and tell me that he filled the bowl with whole milk. No sir. If there is a good thing to be said about President Bush it’s that he will tell you he’s going to piss in your cornflakes, then he will actually piss in your cornflakes and then he will hold a press conference defending his right to piss in your cornflakes. There’s no deception. It’s honest and clear… whether you like it or not. With Obama that is unfortunately not the case.

According to the Washington Post, after the “Embrace The Change” concert in South Carolina featuring Donnie McClurkin (who attempted to portray himself as being vilified for words that he wrote), Senator Obama’s crack damage control team gave reporters a three-page memo detailing McClurkin's and Obama's views on gay rights that noted in capital letters "MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES AND HAS CRITICIZED CHURCH LEADERS WHO DEMONIZE HOMOSEXUALS," along with quotes detailing those statements from the singer.

The next paragraph then stated "OBAMA DOES NOT AGREE WITH MCCLURKIN'S VIEWS ON GAYS."

Clearly the senator from Illinois could have done with a bit of the sage advice my grandmother gave me when I was growing when she said, “you can’t please all of the people all of the time” and that “you got to stand for something or you’ll fall for anything.”

Barack Obama’s shameful dance this past weekend was akin to a dangerous balancing act that literally fell flat. This debate is not about political differences on issues like balancing the budget, improving education, entitlement programs or foreign trade.

What Obama is balancing is the fundamental recognition of the rights of an entire slice of America that cuts across all racial, social and economic boundaries. There is no quid pro quo. Either Obama believes that gay and lesbian Americans deserve the same rights and privileges as all Americans or he does not. It’s a simple choice and Senator Obama has blatantly shown that he does not value gay and lesbian voters as much as he does his Christian constituency in the south, so the LGBT community should now stand up, go to the polls and show a vote of no confidence in his ability to represent not only our interests but the interests of America as whole.

Think of it this way. Would you expect a person of Jewish heritage to support a presidential candidate who enlisted the services of a Nazi sympathizer to secure votes, even if that candidate passed out a few flyers denouncing the beliefs of that particularly heinous representative? Hardly. Or would you expect women to support a presidential candidate who recruited a known misogynist to attract male supporters, but public expressed vehement disagreement with that individual’s views about women? I don’t think so. So why should the LGBT community be asked to behave any differently?

By denying our humanity and our equality, Barack Obama spat in the face of gay and lesbian America this past weekend and then put out his hand and begged us to shake it. That’s one peace offering I will gladly decline because I don’t think he should have a place at our table or be welcome in our homes or in our community any longer.

I only hope that the rest of gay and lesbian America will feel the same.

http://www.gaywired.com/article.cfm?section=66&id=17112

[HughMoran]

1. Sweet! I can't wait for the Obama supporters to check in

This ought to be interesting.

Shoe,

meet other foot!

[...of J.Temperance]

3. Like with the McClurkin thing, the Cult of Obama will blame the gay community for

Causing all of Obama's problems.

[...of J.Temperance]

2. Obama became toast two weeks ago....his campaign is finito, he's fucked

From now on he's just limping along....headed toward the INEVITABLE meltdown that both he AND his Cult of Obama will have around early February.

Obama will drop out by late February.

He's NEVER going to recover from sucking up to Donnie "God saved me from homosexuality" McClurkin....then today he says he's against gay marriage....prior to this there was the incident in Kenya were he likened AIDS tests to gays.

The pattern has FORMED....he's done, stick a fork in him already.

[bigdarryl]

4. Most black people and people in general are against gay marriage so you don't know what your talking

about

[JackBeck]

5. Not in New Jersey, bigdarryl.

http://lavenderliberal.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=8698

[...of J.Temperance]

9. Oh dear, don't introduce a dose of reality to the Cult of Obama

Tsk tsk....now then, now then....you KNOW pandering to BIGOTS is ALL the rage with them.

Next up on the Cult of Obama agenda:

A cross country jamboree with the Aryan Nation followed by a Stadium Tour with the KKK....must get the bigot vote at ALL costs dontcha know!

:sarcasm:

Or MAYBE I'm NOT being sarcastic.....Hmmm?

[JackBeck]

48. Sorry, I know I shouldn't be posting polls.

Since they're only convenient when they support our POV. :sarcasm:

To loosely paraphrase the Dixie Chicks, "I'm embarrassed that I'm from the same state of this poster."

[...of J.Temperance]

49. Yeah

Actually THAT poll you posted....that was rigged by the Hillary Campaign....DELIBERATELY to try and make Obama look WORSE than he already looks....Damn that Hillary woman!

:sarcasm:

Seriously, I can't believe all this stuff that's been coming from The Cult of Obama....good grief, if MY candidate would have hitched her caboose to a sack of shit like Donnie McClurkin....I'd have IMMEDIATELY dumped her.

Homophobia has NO place in the Democratic Party....there's ALREADY a party where Homophobia is accepted and tolerated....and it's called the Republican Party.

[...of J.Temperance]

6. Pandering to BIGOTS is NOT a policy of the Democratic Party

Pandering to BIGOTS goes against EVERYTHING that we as Democrats BELIEVE in.

Obama is a panderer to BIGOTS, he EVEN gave the stage to one....McClurkin, who screeched that "God saved me from homosexuality" and they clapped and cheered.

Fucking DISGUSTING....I hope that Hillary ABSOLUTELY HAMMERS Obama, I want her to nail him TOTALLY and FULLY.

[emilyg]

7. Amen.

[...of J.Temperance]

11. Hey

:thumbsup:

[ruggerson]

10. Not in the Democratic party

maybe ol' Barack should consider running as a Republican.

[...of J.Temperance]

14. Yeah the GOP could pair him with Condi, then could run together

OBAMA/RICE 2008....CLINTON/BAYH 2008 will HAMMER them.

I can't believe that we've got a DEMOCRATIC Senator, and a black one at that, pulling this anti-gay crap and pandering to bigots....it's got my head in a spin.

WTF was/is Obama THINKING about....it's crazy.

[MadMaddie]

76. Big Darryl....

And why is this? Our community has some problems that we are dealing with don't we? Poor Education, misguided beliefs, the fact that the Neocons have figured that the church is important in the black community and they have infilitrated the churches with their bullshit...and poisened the churches....

Maybe we should look at why so many people were against Interracial Marriage to put things in perspective. When it came right down to it...it was pure hatred of blacks and other minorities marrying whites.

Tell me what's the difference now....it's still pure hatred, it's not Christ like and it's simply selfish.

We shouldn't be making excuses for bigots and hatemongers who hide behind Christ, we should be calling them out on it and make them prove that they are who they say they are....followers of Christ....if I read my Bible correctly...that means loving your fellow man....and not casting judgements....etc...

[debbierlus]

74. Obama showed himself during the Alito hearings... & back stabbed all of us

Telling us we were divisive because we wanted him filibustered. Went on the airwaves & decried our efforts. I
worked hard on that one, I will never forget his betrayal.

[maximusveritas]

8. That's perhaps the most ridiculous article I've ever read

Did he actually compare McClurkin to a Nazi sympathizer?
And with lines like "denying our humanity and our equality" and "spat in the face", it's hard to take this guy seriously.
Rather than debate the issues, some people would prefer to get hysterical over stuff like this. To each his own I guess.

[Colobo]

13. It is interesting to see

how Obama detractors have brought McClurkin after Obama's strong performance on Thursday and, of course, Hillary's disastrous performance.

What a coincidence. :sarcasm:

[JackBeck]

15. Most of these "Obama detractors" that you speak of

are Kucinich supporters. Not that this is the first time you or anyone else have been told this.

[Solon]

19. I thought all "the gays" were going to vote for Hillary?

Don't tell me I'm wrong, you would shatter my fantasy world where only two candidates matter in this Primary!

[JackBeck]

22. Actually, I like to refer to the majority if us

As those who are part of the "reality based community".

Fraking drives me up a wall that some posters leave out the fact that there were 5 other people on that stage debating the other night.

[Solon]

26. Even worse, this issue keeps on being billed as just another set of candidate politics...

THAT pisses me off to no end. What the fuck is up with these assholes? I don't give a flying FUCK what the reasons are for any candidate to not support same-sex MARRIAGE, fucking bigots, all of them. If any of them were to win the primary, I may vote for them, but I won't like it. Yet, for people to support them in a primary when it isn't necessary, fucking bigot enablers, and that's putting it lightly.

[...of J.Temperance]

24. Hillary will get 90% of the gay vote

In the GE she'll get 98% of the gay vote.

[...of J.Temperance]

20. Yeah but Kucinich believe in UFO's....so WHAT does that say?

Their candidate is on like 2%....he'll be down to 0.5% after the UFO question the other night.

Kucinich is anti-abortion, believes in and has SEEN a UFO....dunno where he stands on gay rights to be honest....but he's pretty out of the mainstream and delusional.

[JackBeck]

29. Gotta disagree.

I find it amazing that he was taken to task for something someone else wrote about him, and something other past Presidents have said they'd seen, yet Obama was never asked about the McClukin incident, which occurred just a few days prior.

And Kucinich has a huge amount of online support (hello...Dean???) and the last two debates I saw, Dennis was the first one to elicit an audience reaction.

If the cult of personality and loads of cash weren't so attractive for the MSM to create a 10 word character parable, we'd be hearing a lot more about Kucinich.

[...of J.Temperance]

42. I agree 100% about why the heck WASN'T Obama taken to task for the McClurkin thing

Look, I think Dennis Kucinich seems like a nice fellow, I don't dislike him....I just think he's a bit....odd is all, and his politics are VERY alien to me (no pun intended re. UFO's + alien!)

But yeah, Obama should have had his feet held to the fire and hit upside the head about McClurkin.

Jaysus the DISGUSTING treatment that Senator Clinton got in that debate, like some nasty gang-banging....but Obama gets off scot-free, why didn't that little whore Tiny Tim smack Obama like he smacked Hillary?


AARRGGHH!!!!


On Edit: Dammit spelling error

[Bluebear]

31. Christ, is my sigline not clear enough to these people? Evidently Obama only worries about Hillary.

[JackBeck]

35. That's been in the past few days, hasn't it?

I think I noticed it this morning.

Most LGBT people I've talked to have been expressing their support for Kucinich in the primaries, and Edwards in the GE. I think Iowa may surprise a lot of the "top 2" supporters. I can't help but remember who was trailing during the last primary...

[Bluebear]

36. Being that I am in New Hampshire . . .

I have decided on Edwards because DK has almost no grassroots organizing here. Hardly on the radar screen and that is a shame.

[...of J.Temperance]

44. No, it's OBVIOUS Mr. Bluebear that you need to

MAKE YOUR SIG LINE BIGGER!

:P

[Lucinda]

18. This is an issue that isn't going away

and has nothing to do with Clinton or the debate and you know it.

[...of J.Temperance]

21. The Cult of Obama would like EVERYONE to just forget about McClurkin

No effing chance....McClurkin is STICKING to Obama like mud....it's not going away....but Obama is, because his campaign is finito.

[Bullet1987]

28. It's not going to go away on the internet...

but in the media...yes it will. And if Obama doesn't get the nomination...it won't be blamed on an issue as redundant as this.

[Bluebear]

34. Yes we know, in fact you APPLAUDED Obama putting McClucken on the stage

"GOOD MOVE OBAMA!" as I recall.

[...of J.Temperance]

16. McClurkin said "God saved me from homosexuality", what about THAT comment?

And the "denying our humanity and our equality" I think is accurate....the bigots that Obama is pandering to, they think gays are second class citizens who DON'T deserve the SAME rights as the rest of us have.

[Bluebear]

30. Funny, an Obama supporter said she wanted to spit in some faces HERE over this issue

Depends on what side you're on I guess. "Hysterical" indeed.

[katandmoon]

12. Here's what I don't get - why did he feel it was necessary to pander in the first place?

Obama is the first serious African American presidential contender in history. Now, I'm not African American, so I don't want to presume...but it certainly seems like a no-brainer to me that just by virtue of his historic status, he already has the A-A vote sewn up. He hardly needs to pander to the anti-gay crowd among them. The fact that he went to those lengths, has suffered much fallout, but still has not meaningfully addressed this huge misstep, is very troubling to me. I was already on the fence about Obama, because I think he's rushing things by running for the Democratic nomination, much less the presidential one, this early in his Senatorial career. It indicates that he has a rather highly developed ego - too highly, IMO, based on his resume up to now.

If he gets the nomination (which I highly doubt, and not just because of this fiasco) I will vote for him, because the alternative doesn't bear thinking of. But the exhilaration with which I heard him speak at the 2004 Democratic presidential convention has been utterly deflated.

[...of J.Temperance]

17. Because he's naive and a bit of a moron n/t

.

[Lucinda]

23. Either because it is politically expedient

or he really does have "issues" with gay Americans. I lean towards the former since his church supports more gay rights than he does, publically anyway.

[sendero]

32. Because...

.. his entire campaign, all the religious crap and so forth, is a stupid attempt to appease the Fundy crowd.

All he's succeeded in doing is pissing off his base. Honestly, he's almost as bad as triangulating HRC in his attempt to be all things to all people.

I was never a huge fan of his, he was my reluctant first choice a few months ago, but at this point I'm done with him. If he wants the religious dumbass vote, he's not about to get mine.

And I agree with many here who think he's screwed up for the last time, there is little chance of recovery from this crap.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

56. I suspect Bill and Hill nailed down a lot more of the SC AA Vote than Obama expected and he

panicked and went to the bottom of the idealogical barrel for votes.

[Egnever]

25. While I find Obamas actions surrounding this incident disturbing.

This article can not be taken seriously...

If there is a good thing to be said about President Bush it’s that he will tell you he’s going to piss in your cornflakes, then he will actually piss in your cornflakes and then he will hold a press conference defending his right to piss in your cornflakes. There’s no deception.


Yea right....

We do not torture....

Crystal fucking clear

[Cha]

37. I know..not a good reference.

I'm glad you brought up. When you're talking about Democrats don't even bring up bushit in comparison..cause there ain't none.

[ripple]

27. Not this lesbian voter

I continue to believe that Barack will do more to further equality across the board than any other viable candidate out there.

Unlike a lot of folks here, I believe we need to establish a dialogue with Christian fundamentalists and others that happen to be uncomfortable with who we are. The longer we allow ourselves to be segregated (or allow them to segregate us), the further we are from achieving full inclusion- not to mention, we create an effective diversion and provide them with endless opportunities to point their fingers and blame us for society's ills.

Obama frames our issues in the only way I've seen that will ever be effective. People understand and have a basic respect for the principles of equality and justice, yet they tend to lose sight of that when they are given a reason to do so- ignorance and fear seem to be perfect reasons to discriminate. I might be incorrect, but from everything I've read and seen of him, I think Obama understands that quite well. Just as he understands that the only way to reach any sort of consensus with Ahmadinijad is to actually talk to the man, rather than standing across the ocean pointing fingers.

Do I think McClursky's appearance is going too far? You bet, but I'm certainly not taking my eye off of the ball.

[Bluebear]

33. Well, you have your meeting with the fundamentalists & tell us how it goes.

[Bullet1987]

38. Gaywired? WTF is that?

You guys continue to exxgerate the impact this will have. Clinton supporters only bring it up to attack Obama...but they know damn well it could just have easily been Clinton in this position right now. They BOTH pander to African-American Christian Democrats...this is not something ONLY Obama does. Everytime you see a Dem candidate go to a church and act like they're "saved," etc.

The article can't be taken seriously because it's too sensational (therefore biased). Obama has bigger issues to deal with, I doubt he'll say anything on this subject again. It didn't even come up at the debate...which I'm sure a lot of the GLBT people hated. The only smear by association that works on the Left is when corporations are involved. Anything else, is usually not made a big deal out of.

You guys don't even have the entire internet on your side. Obama still did very well in the post-debate DailyKos poll. And I'm sure that now that Clinton's armor has been damaged, he'll still remain strong in Iowa and New Hampshire. The sooner people realize that and realize that this is not a Dean "BYAH" moment...the better off we'll all be.

[Bluebear]

40. "You guys"...."You guys"...is that like "YOU PEOPLE"??

What does this have to do with Clinton?

[...of J.Temperance]

45. "You guys"....

There is NO US and THEM...."those guys" are part of US as well.


"Clinton supporters only bring it up to attack Obama"


So you DON'T think Obama did any wrong, you don't think that Obama DESERVES to be attacked about this issue? The Cult of Obama in it's FULL glory huh?

And this has zero to do with Senator Clinton....it's about Senator Obama, he FU BIG TIME, and he's going to pay the price for it, he shot himself in both feet and he's basically toast.


On Edit: Dammit spelling error

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

46. It's not about "the impact this will have"

A country the could re-elect George Bush is certainly capable of overlooking a monstrous gesture of disdain of the very humanity of 10 or 20 million citizens.

I doubt anybody here will really be all that surprised if Obama gets away with it.

[flvegan]

50. Here's two scoops of shut the fuck up, k?

Your choice of a candidate over "you guys" is priceless. Thanks for the laugh.

[NMMNG]

69. Gaywired is only one of the oldest and most important clearinghouses

of LGBT news and opinion on the WWW.

Face it, your hero is not what he claims to be.

[ripple]

39. I've actually done that in real life

not as a group, but individually and informally. You'd be amazed at how minds open when the fear of the unknown is removed.

[Bluebear]

41. I am not interested in being the ambassador to the fundy church :)

I want to live my life in peace, I want them to live their lives in peace. The GLBT community is not going into the church telling them what to do, the fundamentalist church is going into the schools, statehouses, congress, oval office, telling us what to do.

[ripple]

43. The only way to make them 'get it' is to stop dismissing them and start talking to them

They're there, whether we like it or not. And from their point of view, we are infiltrating their pristine society. If we refuse to talk to them, we remain 'enemies'- based on sheer numbers, guess who wins?

I'm not interested in being an ambassador, either, but I am interested in trying a different strategy, particularly while there are still at least a few states that haven't enshrined discrimination into their state constitutions- and mine isn't among them, BTW.

I respect and share your anger, I just disagree with your approach.

[...of J.Temperance]

47. How can gay people "talk" to the Fundies when....

The Fundies think that gay people are almost sub-human....and come out with grotesque comments like "gays are the Spawn of The Devil"

You REALLY think that gay people can communicate on any logical and sane level with the Fundie crowd?

I don't.

[theredpen]

51. The "Good Jew"

As the Nazi government began to demonize the Jews for all of the ills that Germany, and the world, was suffering in the 1930's, they became acutely aware of "the Good Jew" problem. As much as you got the population to believe that Jews were, in general, evil, there would still be that one "Good Jew" that everyone knew — the one person who would shatter the illusion created by Nazi propaganda. Maybe it was their neighbor, the kindly Frau Koen, who would watch your kids during the day, or the baker Herr Leibowitz, who made a cake for a neighbor's kid's birthday, even though the family couldn't pay for it.

That's why the Nazi's started herding the Jews into ghettos. It was much easier to hate Jews when you didn't actually know any in person. The memories of Frau Koen or Herr Leibowitz would fade and only the hatred of that abstract cartoonish image from Ewige Juden would remain.

ripple is not only possessed of bigger brassier cojones than you, but she knows that the easiest way to keep anti-gay propaganda effective is for GLBT people to be invisible to the people who it targets.

[...of J.Temperance]

52. That is a truly offensive set of comments from you there

That is all.

:thumbsdown:

[theredpen]

53. What?

Because I mention the Nazis? What's your beef. That's called history. It's ugly, but there it is.

LGBT people need to make it clear that they are part of mainstream society or it will remain easy to marginalize them. That's just common fucking sense.

If ripple has the guts to face some of the biggest homophobes in this country in an attempt to spread some understanding where it's desperately needed, then good for her. Why do you find it so important to deride her for wanting to do so? Why should she have to live with the limits of your fear?

[JackBeck]

54. "LGBT people need to make it clear that they are part of mainstream society

or it will remain easy to marginalize them. That's just common fucking sense."

Right, and straight people in committed relationships are so completely integrated into mainstream society.

Most research shows that you can't figure out how to make your marriage work. That shows us that divorce and infidelity (through the images that you shove down our throats in mainstream media, y'all seem so promiscuous) should be the ultimate goals, per your examples.

Nor can you figure out how to raise the millions of babies in foster care that you neglect.

[...of J.Temperance]

57. You know

I agree with you, us hetereosexuals often HARDLY have functional relationships....I've had a few dysfunctional relationships in the past myself.

And I don't think there's any such thing as The Nuclear Family, it's all really some sort of Ozzie & Harriet-type fantasy.

[Bluebear]

58. When Ms Spears can get zonked & get married in Vegas after an hour's contemplation...

...and my partner of 22 years and I cannot, I don't need any lectures about the sanctity of marriage lol!

No scripture thumper is going to recognize my relationship and I am not going to bother trying to convince them. The courtroom is the only venue that interests me.

[...of J.Temperance]

59. Yep

That's true....and it's a waste of time trying to communicate with the nutty bigoted Fundies, gay people would just be wasting their breath talking to that Medieval crowd.

22 years huh? Congratulations Mr. Bluebear :)

Hey I'm getting married in a month....I hope I've not jinxed stuff by saying that MANY hetereosexual relationships are not that functional! :scared:

Allan and I are very functional....hopefully we STILL will be in....like....22 years ;)

[Bluebear]

60. Allan is a lucky man. As long as he remembers that, you're OK

;)

[...of J.Temperance]

62. Oh

You cute lovebug you ;)

[theredpen]

61. Are you serious?

So... you're claiming that heterosexual relationships are considered fringe in this society?

Most research shows that you can't figure out how to make your marriage work.

So I guess the Gary Bauers of the world are doing gays a huge favor by trying to pass an amendment saving them from this disastrous, anti-social, counter-cultural "marriage thing."

Thanks for clearing that up.

[...of J.Temperance]

64. You know full well what JackBeck was meaning

He never stated that hetereosexual relationships were "fringe"

I fail to see WHERE you arrived at this incredibly strange conclusion from reading his comments.

D'oh! I perfectly understood what he was meaning.

[theredpen]

66. Actually, no

I have no idea what he was getting at.

I said that LGBT people need to insist on their place at society's table. Is that wrong? Should they all go back in the closet? Should we pretend that the fact that our Senate actually debated the "Defense of Marriage Amendment" (or whatever it was called) isn't a humongous, and clear-cut indication that anti-gay bigotry is considered acceptable in polite society?

Pointing out that many heterosexuals are socially irresponsible may be purging for JackBeck, but it isn't advancing the cause of gay rights at all. And that cause needs some advancing, I'm sorry to say. Nobody's perfect, and perfection is not a prerequisite for civil rights; as best as I can understand JackBeck's post, it was a http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html">red herring.

[...of J.Temperance]

55. Huh?

Maybe I misread what you were meaning to illustrate.


"LGBT people need to make it clear that they are part of mainstream society."


LGBT ARE ALREADY a PART of mainstream society....it's the weirdass Christian Fundamentalists with their Medieval and wacky beliefs that AREN'T a PART of mainstream society.

LGBT are ALREADY mainstream and have been for YEARS....it's the loony Fundies who are on the FRINGE of society.


What's the point of engaging in talking to a bunch of Bigoted Fundies if you're gay....no matter what YOU say to them, in their HEARTS they BELIEVE that YOU'RE going to Hell for LOVING a member of the same sex as you.

So I repeat, how can gay people have NORMAL discussion with that sort of nutjob?

I should repeat, as I do in gay threads....I'm a straight female....but I'm 100% TOTALLY pro-gay rights, and I feel VERY STRONGLY about this issue, I refuse to accept my fellow brothers and sisters who are gay are STILL DENIED the rights that we hetereosexuals have and DISCRIMINATED against by gibbering crazed bigots who run on hate and fear.

[theredpen]

65. Mainstream society means mainstream equality

LGBT ARE ALREADY a PART of mainstream society.... my fellow brothers and sisters who are gay are STILL DENIED the rights that we hetereosexuals have and DISCRIMINATED against by gibbering crazed bigots who run on hate and fear.

If these "gibbering crazed bigots" were meeting secretly in pastures lit only by a burning cross, I'd agree that the members of the LGBT were part of "mainstream society." But we both know that these gibbering crazed bigots are meeting on Capital Hill, where they perennially try to change the fundamental laws of our country so that LGBT citizens can be legally robbed or their civil rights. There are large parts of this country where being a raging homophobe is not an impediment to being elected to public office. LGBTs may be mainstream where you live, but they aren't in those places — and that needs to change.

What's the point of engaging in talking to a bunch of Bigoted Fundies if you're gay....no matter what YOU say to them, in their HEARTS they BELIEVE that YOU'RE going to Hell for LOVING a member of the same sex as you.

Not all conservative Christians fit this description. Of course there's no point in engaging extremists.

Most of the conservative Christians I've met (and I live in Texas, so I meet a lot of them), aren't extremists. They actually think that what they believe is best for society and they genuinely care about other people. Some of them aren't going to change their minds about homosexuals, but you'd be surprised how much some of them will. Many will at least allow that gays — who are going to Hell — should at least enjoy all the benefits and freedoms of every other member of civil society.

It's important to keep in mind that most people in this country are going to Hell, according to the fundies. I suspect they'd say you were going to Hell and you're not even gay. Nevertheless, they don't spend 90% of their time campaigning against you (unless you want to have an abortion, and then you're in their other favorite target group.)

So I repeat, how can gay people have NORMAL discussion with that sort of nutjob?

The main problem with these "nutjobs" is that they find homosexuality to be inconceivable. They are near the 6-end of the Kinsey scale and the notion that boys would kiss boys or that girls would do — God knows what! — to girls is just... just... queer! The first mission is to get these nutjobs to see the LGBTs among them as ordinary people who are, for the most part, much like them.

I think you really need to cultivate the idea that people who do things that you find inconceivable — and off-putting — might still be people and not "weirdass ... loony ... gibbering crazed ... nutjobs." You dig trenches and string razor wire and then you wonder how you keep ending up on a battlefield.

Somebody has to be the adult in this relationship. You expect it to be THEM?!

[NMMNG]

78. Do you agree with Obama's approach?

:shrug:


That being the 5 homophobe gospel concert topped off by the McClurkin sermon against gay people.

[Sandaasu]

73. Engagement is fine, but you can't sacrifice your stances to do it.

For example, if Ahmadinejad were to be handled the same way as the fundies were here, the discussion with him would involve telling him, "We like you, and if you want to destroy Israel, that's ok. Whatever it takes to get you to like us." And then, to the American public he states, "I don't REALLY want him to attack Israel, but getting him to like us is the most important thing!"

There's engagement, and there's appeasement. Obama tried to do the former, and instead did the latter. Just talking about equality and justice isn't enough, because the people we're worried about simply don't include us in that. They think that we're ill, and if anything, they think that they're doing us a favor by pushing the concept that we can change on us. The fundamentalists need to be sent a clear, consistent signal that this is not something that the progressive people of the world will not tolerate. They need to be told that if they continue as they are, they will find themselves as marginalized and hated as groups such as the neo-Nazis and the KKK.

[IndianaJones]

63. I love your threads. They are bigot magnets. nt.

[Major Hogwash]

67. Really? They look more like racist magnets to me.

The more I see of them, the more I am convinced that is exactly what they are, too.

[Bluebear]

70. So I am a racist, Major "Hogwash"? How dare you.

[NMMNG]

71. Ah geez, not this stuff again

:eyes:

:wtf: is it with people who think that if you criticize Obama you're a racist? Is Obama supposed to be immune from criticism because he's black?

So is Hillary supposed to be immune from criticism because she's female? Dennis because he's short?

Geez people, stop playing the cards!

[sniffa]

75. it's just bigot projection

in a sick way, i kinda enjoy their tortured stances. then again, i'm aLso a masochist.

[FredScuttle]

77. Am I a racist?

I'm a person of color and I'm appalled at Obama's craven pandering to bigots.

[terrya]

79. It's spelled B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

No one who is pissed off with Obama over the issue of McClurkin...zero, zip, zilch, nada... has ever made any racist comments.

[William769]

68. He walks a tight rope?

More like he ran across the the tight rope, fell off with not net to catch him.

[Sandaasu]

72. Bravo!

That is an excellent article, thanks for posting it here.