Obama photographed during Pledge of Allegiance

[blondie58]

and he didn't put his hand on his heart.

http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2007/10/30/barack-obama-no-hand-over-heart-during-national-anthem.htm?nl=1

Personally, I find it strange that he wouldn't do so, knowing how many eyes are upon him.

[Goblinmonger]

1. You don't have to

It is appropriate to also stand with your hands at your side. I believe you are supposed to salute if you are military, though.

[tanyev]

2. Il Dunce can't even find his heart.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

8. OH, my goodness.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Somehow, I've never seen that photo.

[babylonsister]

18. I don't think he has one; therein lies the problem. nt

[demnan]

19. It's not low enough

he should put his hand on his dick when they say the pledge of allegence, because he wants to screw us all.

[zbdent]

32. Did the secret service take down that guy on the left

obviously reaching for his piece?

[flpoljunkie]

66. Apparently the National Anthem gives him indigestion!

[Sandaasu]

3. Ugh, this again?

Why the hell won't this go away? None of them were technically doing it right in that photo anyway. It's a pretty silly thing to attacking him on, given that it only happened once, and the guy was singing along with it for Christ's sake! Oh, and it was the National Anthem, not the Pledge.

[William769]

4. This is a non issue IMHO.

[desi]

20. Agreed William769

and I LOVE your new avatar....Let's get ready to ruuuuumble...

[William769]

39. Well when your laid up in a hospital bed, you have plenty of time

to make things.

[mrgorth]

5. Not the pledge of allegiance

it was the national anthem. There's a difference.

[BootinUp]

61. Yes. n/t

[bigwillq]

6. I don't think it's a big deal

I'll leave him alone on this one.

[rucky]

7. He's got a ferr-ign sounding name, too. n/t

[Connie_Corleone]

9. It wasn't the pledge of allegiance.

It was during the national anthem. No one was facing the flag, so putting your hand over your heart is not necessary.

Also, the ABC news video clearly shows Obama singing the anthem.

[a kennedy]

10. Oh no, he doesn't wear the flag pin either......

:eyes: :patriot:

[geek tragedy]

11. This is not the Free Republic. You must be lost. n/t

[blondie58]

12. Hey- I resent that

I just came across this in my urban legends about.com newsletter and had not seen it before. I did a search here and did not find it, so I thought that others might find it interesting. Okay, so it wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance. My bad- I have not had enough coffee! However, this just gives the righties more fodder- as the contrast in the picture is very striking between all of the other candidates and Obama.

[Connie_Corleone]

15. Did you even bother to read the part where the guy says the email is a lie?

[ccpup]

26. then why did Obama's campaign

speak about his decision to not put his hand to his heart?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

In my book, it IS a non-issue. But the Obama campaign have opened themselves to truly unnecessary charges of being unpatriotic and, really, it's a fairly stupid issue that people may take ... well, issue with. I don't know how the campaign thought they could spin this. Again, I don't think it's a big deal, but I'm not every other American (thank God).

[Connie_Corleone]

57. The email in the OP says it was during the Pledge of allegiance.

That's the lie.

[geek tragedy]

17. Well, I resent your posting of rightwing smears on this site. n/t

[ccpup]

23. it's not a right wing smear

even Obama's campaign has addressed it.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

All because you disagree with something doesn't necessarily give you license to accuse a fellow DUer of posting "rightwing smears". This one happens to have some validity and, in my book, could easily be an unfortunate, easily misunderstood issue for the Obama campaign.

[geek tragedy]

27. No, he didn't. He was asked a question about

the fact he wasn't wearing an American flag lapel pin.

This has no validity. None. It's the province of wingnuts and Obama-haters.

[ccpup]

28. that's really not fair

I don't consider myself either a wingnut or an Obama-hater. I would, though, like to be able to defend him when people ask me why he chose not to hold his hand to his heart.

Besides, the statement from the campaign clearly illustrates that you're incorrect about this being some kind of wingnut thing: "Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. In no way was he making any sort of statement, and any suggestion to the contrary is ridiculous"

If this were a made-up situation, they wouldn't release that statement. But please remember that all because someone disagrees with you and is seeking clarity, that doesn't automatically make them either your enemy or a hater. I mean, for God's sakes, we're not repuglicans now, are we?

[geek tragedy]

29. A reporter ASKED him about the flag pin and then ran a news story on it.

He was NOT asked about that stupid mythical pledge of allegiance thing.

This is crap. Stop pushing it.

[ccpup]

34. I'm trying to have a conversation

and you're responding with a confusing blend of anger and authoritarianism. And what part of my earlier response confused you? I'm attempting -- with very little help from you -- to find a way to explain this to people who may be confused by it. I'm supposed to tell them to shut up and go away? To fuck off and get lost? I'm sure my Dad will really appreciate that.

Oh, and by the way, don't fuckin' ever tell me what to do. This is a board designed to share similar beliefs and hopefully -- in a mutually respectful way -- get information. That's what I'm trying to do. If you don't have an answer for me, that's fine. But don't turn into baby tyrant bush, throw a temper tantrum and start telling people what to do. It isn't helpful.

[yellowcanine]

40. "don't turn into baby tyrant bush, throw a temper tantrum ...." Now there is a case of

pot kettle blacking if I ever saw one. You might refrain from using the "f word" if you are going to start chastizing people about debating etiquette and throwing temper tantrums. Just a suggestion - not telling you what to do. If you want to rant and f this and that, it is ok by me, but I wouldn't expect to be taken all that seriously then if I were you.

[ccpup]

47. if you take a look

at the conversation that preceded it, I was sincerely attempting -- and still do! -- to get a response I could share with those who will inevitably ask me when they learn about this incident. I was called a wingnut, a hater and told to shut up and stop "pushing this".

Am I proud of losing my temper? No. Am I frustrated because I'm coming up with nothing in trying to defend a candidate I'm not even sure I'll support yet? Hell yes.

As for being taken seriously, a cursory look at my previous Posts over the last million years -- or at least that what it feels like sometimes -- will show I've for the most part treated others with patient respect and there are those who have appreciated my well-written thoughts. One incident in the face of someone unwilling to offer anything but "shut up and go away" does not a Bad Poster make.

[yellowcanine]

49. Unfortunately, "What have you done lately?" tends to be the rule in forums like this.

So if you don't want to be characterized in a particular way it is best not to indulge in the occasional rant, however much one is needled by another poster. My suggestion is to just stop responding - don't announce that this is what you are doing if you feel the necessity to include a "parting shot" - just stop responding without an explanation.

Another thing. You are barking up the wrong tree if you are coming here to get reasons for supporting or not supporting a particular candidate. Why is it anyone else's responsibility to do that for you? And what makes you think that anyone here is any more qualified than you to make that assessment? We DUers rightly criticize the Limbaugh dittoheads and the Freepers for taking their cues on what to think about an issue or a candidate from others who think as they do on most issues. And we laugh about how they are all reciting the same "memes" in a "message of the day" kind of way. Read the news stories, watch the debates, and yes come here and participate in the discussions. But then make your choices and formulate your own arguments for those choices - don't expect others to do it for you. Anyway that is what I like to think I do.

[ccpup]

51. that doesn't make sense

where else to turn to than to those who support Obama for some clarity? Has nothing to do with being a ditto-head or whatever else. If I need to know how to bake a cake, I open a cook book. If I want to know what's on TV at 9 PM, I go to my DVR's Guide. If I need to know where Obama stands on a certain issue, I come to DU and seek out those who support him and who would presumably know to find the answer. Makes sense to me.

[yellowcanine]

55. To each his own.

But I would ask myself. Is it working for me? If not, I would at least reconsider my strategy and/or how I am implementing it. But that is just me. You have to do what you think best.

[blondie58]

59. ccpup- I want to thank you for your defense of this post

Boy, did I learn some important things here-

#1 Don't post anything impulsively.

#2 Don't post anything before you've had your caffeine and are truly awake.

I didn't think that there would be such an uproar. Isn't that what makes us Democrats?- the fact that we can discuss things rationally- without name calling and accusations. We have the ability to take what is giving to us in the media and dissect it for what it truly is. For me, I don't think that it is a big deal, no more than the non-flag pin wearing- no more than the fact that Obama's middle name is Hussein. But the righties- led by yes, Hannity and Colmes will jump on this and we need to have the facts to counteract their attacks.


Anyway, thanks again. Being a true Democrat, I value peace above all and it hurts to be attacked.

[ccpup]

22. dont' worry

I posted a similar Post with a link to the same picture last night

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3674145

and was directed to Snopes where, in fact, the incident turned out to be from Iowa in September 2007. Obama even speaks about the decision not to hold his hand to his heart.

It IS a non-issue for many of us, but one can't speak for those who consider themselves "patriotic". This may be enough of a (non)issue to prevent them from seriously considering him for a vote. My Aunt -- who I've always considered to be a sane, rational person and who sent me the picture -- feels uncomfortable with a Commander in Chief who won't hold his hand to his heart during the National Anthem or when facing the flag (there was a flag in the distance they're all facing)!

If Obama were smart, he'd make this a true non-issue and just put his hand to his heart. He has in the past -- as you'll see on the Snopes site -- and I hope he does in the future. Not because I care, one way or the other, but because I don't want the Fundies to have any easily provable ammunition to shoot him down with.

[Evergreen Emerald]

13. We are now reading stuff on DU that Hannity and Colmbs built

[ccpup]

25. not quite

taken in Iowa in September 2007. As I've mentioned -- and linked to twice -- upthread, Obama's campaign has addressed this and has unfortunately, it seems, failed to recognize how this might be an issue for some voters. Not sane, reasonable voters, but if someone is looking for a reason not to trust Obama, one doesn't have to reach very far when it appears he might not be "patriotic". It's silly, I agree, but the Obama campaign should have heard alarm bells with this one. It's just a stupid, short-sighted mistake.

[zulchzulu]

14. Heck, what about the flag pin while we're at it....

Jingoists Unite!

:crazy:

[Debi]

16. It is a non-issue - but 'flag etiquette' states that a non-military person

puts their hand over their heart for the reciting of the pledge:

http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

<snip>

"...should be rendered by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."

<snip>

[Adelante]

35. Except it wasn't the pledge

It was the national anthem. I actually thought at the time this photo was not good from a PR standpoint, but it's not correct that he didn't hold his hand over his heart during the pledge. From the information in the link there is a dirty tricks email campaign going on against Obama misrepresenting the situation.

[ccpup]

37. and the Obama campaign

and his supporters on DU are being surprisingly unhelpful for those of us who want to respond with something other than "shut up and fuck off" or "you're a wingnut and a hater". I would like to have a response for those people who ask me about this -- namely my Dad and my neighbors who often turn to me for political clarity --, but, as of yet, I got nothin'.

Anyone?

[Adelante]

43. The response is it wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance

And there is a concerted dirty tricks campaign going on to pretend it was the Pledge of Allegiance.

[ccpup]

45. okay

I'll see if that'll fly. But the Obama campaign may want to get a handle on this ... and quick.

[Debi]

44. Either way it's a non-issue

He holds our country in reverence.

[Adelante]

46. Yes, he certainly does

His patriotism is not in question, but it's important to clarify that it was not during the Pledge of Allegiance, which is what is being mythologized, but while the National Anthem was being sung, where there is no such flag etiquette.

[ccpup]

48. if I were Obama

I'd get my hand to my heart the minute I hit the stage ... especially if your back is turned to the others you're sharing the stage with. The contrast and compare aspect of this could be unsettling for some. This unfortunate photo could dog him and cause him to spend unnecessary resources, talent and time in defending himself.

[Adelante]

52. I agree it is a problematic image

It's the sort of thing that can happen to any candidate and it can be hard to dig yourself out of the bullshit.

[ccpup]

54. hit back immediately

with footage of you holding your hand over your heart, again and again and again. Don't do it the Kerry way by letting something get locked into the Public's mind and THEN respond aggressively. They should have a new commercial ready NOW to run in Iowa -- where the incident took place -- that includes footage of him, hand over heart.

[Bitwit1234]

21. I bet if a republican caught it - it would be all over the news.

You know the press has a thing when they catch a Democrat doing something they can make fun of...Kunich..and UFO's they had a good ha ha over that.

But then maybe they would try to justify it, like they did bush you know when he put his hand on his stomach. Someone said he was just hungry and waiting for lunch. I tell you they figure out an excuse for bush for everything.

If he got off a few rounds at a sitting duck, could they justify that.

[Renew Deal]

24. I've been to many events where the national anthem was played

And I don't remember people putting their hands over their hearts.

[fencesitter]

30. Talk radio is apoplectic this morning...

about this. A local radio show was freaking over Obama's unpatriotic gesture. People were calling in ready to throw him into Guantanimo. This was not necessarily a right wing show either. Why would he do this? it would be political suicide no matter what the situation.

[NYCGirl]

33. Why would he do WHAT? I've never put my hand over my heart during the National

Anthem — guess I should get ready for Gitmo.

[fencesitter]

38. I don't care what you or I do..

But we're not presidential candidates with every motion or gesture subject to scrutiny.

[NYCGirl]

41. And every motion or gesture is spun by the opposition, too. Obama did NOTHING WRONG.

Maybe he should change his middle name; the right wing doesn't like that, either.

[yardwork]

31. Oh for crying out loud. What next - loyalty oaths? This is ridiculous.

Personally, I find the Pledge of Allegiance to be extremely obnoxious, especially since the McCarthy-ites added the "under God" in the 1950s. I believe in God but the whole idea of requiring school children to say this and scrutinizing politicians to see if they are doing it "right" or not is just plain fascist.

Flag pins, hands on heart - come on.

[blondie58]

60. Maybe, it's because I grew up during the 60's

but it makes me feel good to say the Pledge of Allegiance. And this will probably get me flamed even more, but I was at an event for work to honor the Mendez vs. Westminster stamp (for equal school rights) and there were many schoolchildren there. It was so cute, they said the Pledge of Allegiance in English and then they said it in Spanish.

[BootinUp]

64. Watch the video at mediamatters on this

Its easier than usual to picture Hannity as a fascist in 1940 Germany.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200710240006?f=h_latest

[hedgehog]

36. THERE'S THE PROOF WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR!

He's actually an agent from KAOS trying to become president so he can destroy the American way of life! Bwa -ha-hah-ha!

[rinsd]

42. OMG...burn him! BURN HIM!!!!

:crazy:

[oasis]

50. He thought he would take a "pensive pose" for the camera in contrast to Hillary. (eom)

[Basileus Basileon]

53. So? Does this matter? nt

[guruoo]

56. Maybie he should just go ahead and pin

his hand to his chest.

[goodgd_yall]

58. This is the kind of crap Fox News would revel in

Meaning, it's a big non-issue.

[alteredstate]

62. Check this out:

[alteredstate]

63. Just in case you haven't seen this:

[beaconess]

65. I call bullshit on this bogus - and old - accusation

Obviously, you don't know that this came up weeks ago and was proven to be a load of crap then.'

First, this wasn't during the Pledge of Allegiance - didn't you notice that everyone in the photo is turned away from the thing they're supposedly pledging allegiance to?

This photo was taken during the playing of the National Anthem. And as was demonstrated in the discussion weeks ago, it turns out that Obama is the ONLY one in the photo doing the right thing - which is standing at respectful attention facing the person singing the anthem. There's no requirement that people put their hands on their hearts when facing the person singing the song, since they are not paying allegiance to the singer. If they were facing the flag, that would be a different thing, but they're not.

So please don't try to beat this old, dead, right wing talking point - it was crap then and its crap now.