Hillary Clinton represents conservatism.

[calteacherguy]

It's the conservatism of the status quo.

Corporatism, Washington insider politics, the broken system.

It's time for a transformation. No more business as usual.

Who's with me?

[Colobo]

1. I'm with you, brother. Welcome back.

[2rth2pwr]

2. I am

not.

[jlake]

3. Not me.

[calteacherguy]

That's O.K., we're going to reach out to all you conservatives, too! nt

[Harper_is_Bush]

13. Who's "we"? And on what basis do you call that poster a "Conservative"?

Yours is the politics of division and slander.

[jlake]

17. LOL. I know Obama likes to reach out to conservatives....but I'm not homophobic enough for him.

Fortunately, I am reality based and realize that Obama is not some great progressive liberal.
I do not buy into his schtick. Enjoy the cult!

[aquart]

4. Links? Facts? Evidence? A little bird told you?

Any donkey can bray.

[calteacherguy]

6. LOL.

That's a pretty funny comment on a Democratic discussion board. So do we all "bray?"

Back to the point at hand...you're either on the bus or off the bus.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElizabethDC]

5. Weren't you supporting her like 2 weeks ago?

Or was that just a farce?

[calteacherguy]

7. I saw the light. nt

[Silence Dogood]

11. Cal, so glad your back-

I missed reading your posts with the Bamateam. Are you hear for good or just visiting?

[calteacherguy]

Here for good this time.

Hope over fear. The best vision wins.

[2rth2pwr]

19. With this kind of flip flopping

maybe Edwards is your guy.

[Colobo]

15. cal saw the light, Liz, and that's important.

[ElizabethDC]

18. And how many different "lights" is he going to see between now and the primaries

should be fun to watch.

[calteacherguy]

20. See the post without a number. nt

[ElizabethDC]

21. I'm sorry, but somehow I doubt your sincerity.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong. We shall see.

[calteacherguy]

22. I hope someday you see the light. Preferably before Iowa. nt

[ElizabethDC]

25. I've already seen the light, it's just lead me to a different conclusion.

I'm pleased with the candidate I've chosen and I doubt that that will change between now and January.

[calteacherguy]

32. Where there is doubt, there is still hope.

We'll keep a light on for ya'

[ElizabethDC]

34. Ya know what, don't worry about it.

It would be a waste of electricity. I can guarantee you I won't be joining the Obama camp between now and the primaries, and I don't think I'll need to join it after the primaries, either.

[Colobo]

39. Liz, give Obama a chance. You won't regret it.

[ElizabethDC]

44. I think I very much would regret it, especially based on his campaign these past couple of weeks

I never really had any interest in supporting Obama in this election cycle, but when I met Obama last fall, that pretty much sealed the deal on the fact that I wouldn't be voting for him in the primaries.

[Maven]

38. Yeah, really. nt

[KingFlorez]

8. If that's the case, then why do most conservatives hate her?

[calteacherguy]

9. Sibling rivalry. nt

[KingFlorez]

30. Of course, how silly of me not to realize that

:eyes:

[calteacherguy]

43. Oh, don't feel silly!

Sometimes the most obvious things are the hardest to see!

[harun]

69. Because she is a woman (n/t)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[calteacherguy]

12. I'm with you. I will issue no personal attacks on any candidate. nt

[Harper_is_Bush]

16. And yet you accuse Clinton of "Conservatism" and "Corporatism" without support. It's just a

personal attack.

[calteacherguy]

23. No. It's nothing personal, just what she represents.

It's not as if I'm calling her a corporate w----...THAT would be a personal attack.

I will do no such thing. I'm not attacking her character, simply the interests she represents.

[ElizabethDC]

29. So, you were cool with this alleged conservatism and coporatism a week ago

but now you've changed? I think this says a lot more about you than it does about Sen. Clinton.

[calteacherguy]

33. I was compromising my values. I'm not proud of it.

It was very Machiavellian of me, but I've seen the light.

[Harper_is_Bush]

36. Saying that she represents "conservatism" and "corporatism" is a personal attack.

And frankly, I'm sick of it.

I'm not a Clinton supporter. Hell, I can't even vote.

But I don't see anyone else dumping on the rest of the Dem candidates with such generalized attacks.

[calteacherguy]

47. I disagee. Personal attacks are, well, personal.

As in, you are a liar, scum of the Earth, evil, etc.

We disagree.

[Greyhound]

62. If you are truly not aware of her corporatist background and advocacy,

it is only due to your refusal to look.

But as you say, since none of the chits in the box will be yours, your opinion is even less relevant than most.

[Ken Burch]

59. Well, the "corporatism" charge is obviously well supported

1)HRC loves outsourcing.

2)HRC loves globalization and gives corporate power everything they want on trade deals.

3)That "Business Loves Hillary" cover that Forbes ran.

Pretty hard to refute that.

She's gonna give the boys in the suites everything they want, which means the majority get left out in the cold. Face it people a "pro-business Democrat" is just a Republican with an old Kennedy button in their desk.

Democrats are SUPPOSED to say "Business can take care of itself. We'll fight for the people business leaves out in the cold".

[emilyg]

31. I'm with you.

[calteacherguy]

35. Hi Emily. Have you seen my gender based poll?

You will find it enlightening. I know I'm a guy, and therefore threatened by Mrs. Clinton, as you say, but trust me on this one..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3685621&mesg_id=3685621

[Harper_is_Bush]

37. "gender based poll"?

I'm afraid to ask.

[calteacherguy]

41. Do not be afraid...follow the link. nt

[Harper_is_Bush]

46. Uh, ok. whatever.

[calteacherguy]

48. LOL. nt

[Ken Burch]

60. Sounds like a double-entendre to me:

Example: "mommy, Father Sean showed me his gender-based poll after Mass today".

[still_one]

24. Really? she is for a woman's right to choose. she is not for privatizing Social security

supports energy conservation, releasing oil reserves, increasing the number of hydrogen-powered vehicles, and ratification of the Kyoto Protocol. She opposes drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Bush administration's energy policy

Clinton supports incremental reforms that would provide federally-accessed universal health care by subsidizing insurance premiums for those unable to pay, but not single-payer health care.

Those issues I just named are not conservative.

However, there are issues which place her to the right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

I am not a Clinton fan, but compared to the republicans that are running for president, she isn't even close to their level of radicalism

I have not decided who I will vote for in the primaries.

I WILL vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee is in 2008 ONLY BECAUSE OF THE SUPREME COURT

[calteacherguy]

27. Look deeper.

The system is corrupt and it is broken. She's part of it.

[Harper_is_Bush]

40. I'm sorry, but that is just plain stupid. Please show more respect for us. n/t

[calteacherguy]

49. For YOU?

It seems to me you're projecting.

[still_one]

54. So are most of Congress at this time part of it. In fact it can be argued that the only honest

candidate running on the Democratic platform is Kucinich

but he isn't gone to win a general election, let alone a primary

I will vote for the Democratic candidate in 2008, but I have come to realize that the American populace is not going to appreciate what they have until they start to lose it.

The right to privacy, social security, civil rights, first amendment rights, and so many other causes that I was part of during the sixties have been forgotten by a populace that is ignorant of what is happening before their very eyes

If the Democrats do not get the victory that they anticipate in 2008, more than ever, the American populace deserve exactly what they get

So, is LA after Katrina going to still vote republican? Is Florida, which has been disseminated by the housing bubble going to still vote republican?

Are the elderly who depend on social security and medicare going to vote for a republican party that has said they want to dismantle those programs?

Are women going to vote for the republican party, which has said they want the state to be able to tell a women what she can or cannot do?

Are people of color going to vote for the republican party, which has said they want civil rights to be decided at the state level?

Are gay people going to vote for the republican party, which has said they believe that a Constitutional amendment should making any gay union illegal?

To me the choices are quite clear, and so will be the consequences, and we will deserve exactly what we get

[antiimperialist]

26. Hillary is a liberal

Not a conservative, if we take her ideology as a whole, based on her votes.

[calteacherguy]

28. In a sense, yes. In another sense, no. nt

[Harper_is_Bush]

42. I don't know how to type that whistle at the end of "The good, that bad, and the ugly", but it fits

with your post.

[calteacherguy]

50. Not really.

None of the three are "good."

[lvx35]

45. Not me, you're all mixed up.

She is not a conservative. The things she will do will not be to fight gays or ban choice or x or y or z. She is part of the same power structure Bush is with her corporate support, but this power structure is totally above false ideas like "liberal" or "conservative" they are pro-more-power-for-themselves. Until we stand up and take power for ourselves, we are going to need candidates like her to deal with them, period.

[FREEWILL56]

57. huh?

[JTFrog]

66. Hmmm....

Say what?

We need her to battle herself?!? Makes perfect sense to me!

[lvx35]

68. Our obligation here isn't to battle Hillary Clinton.

We need her to battle the Republicans.

[madrchsod]

51. i`m going with -sitting on the fence waiting for the wind to blow..

[Maven]

52. Hmm...a bunch of empty, hackneyed catchphrases without much substance

Yup, you and Barack are a perfect match.

[ElizabethDC]

53. . . .

:rofl:

[Bitwit1234]

55. Why is it the Hillary haters always know better than she does

all about her feelings. And what's she's going to do... if they stuck to trying to figure out what their flip flop under the top over the bottom candidate was going to do next they might be able to tell us something useful.

[hfojvt]

56. so many times I hope for a substantive critique of Hillary Inc.

to be reminded of why I am right to not like her, and so often I just find empty name-calling. 50+ replies and 4 votes for an empty OP? :wtf:

My own, more substantive critiques, are widely ignored.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/62

Here's another one. Like Bill, Hillary talks alot about 'fiscal responsibility'. I was trying to see if I could google something Hubert Humphrey said about fiscal responsibility, and I found this:

"Generally speaking, after World War I the Republican party became the more conservative of the two major parties, with its support coming from the upper middle class and from the corporate, financial, and farming interests. It has taken political stances generally in favor of laissez-faire, free enterprise, and fiscal responsibility and against the welfare state."

With the DLC we get a Democratic party that says "me too" to much of that. Hillary is getting much of her financial support from the upper middle class and from corporate interests, and has taken up the mantle of fiscal responsibility. Might also add "tough on crime" in there too. With Nafta and welfare reform it makes the Democratic party much more conservative than it was in the 1970s and 1980s.

[FREEWILL56]

58. You too huh?

That is only proof of a bad candidate imho as they haven't any good talking points to back their candidate with.
As to republicans being conservative, I think they chucked that right out the damn window for the next 50-100 years just with these dumbasses in the 2 W administrations. Bill Clinton is far more conservative (meant in a good way) and responcible than they are and the budgets and governmental debt or lack of were proof of that between comparrisons of Bill and W. I for one certainly hope that the republican party is self destructing as it stands for nothing good. This is also a lesson for some in the Democratic party that corporate interests are not what they were put into office for as that leads to fascism and is not DEMOCRATIC. (hint)

[LeftCoast]

61. How can you sit here after 8 years of Republican plutocratic rule and say that?

Why, why, why does our side do this every election cycle? We dutifully line up into our typical circular firing squad formation with our fully-automated weaponry and let loose on each other. And then we wonder why we lose the general election.

People bitch all the time about what's wrong with the Democratic Party, but we're the party and it looks like we're what's wrong with it.

[Popol Vuh]

65. No

Its not us which is wrong with the party. Its the corporatist infecting the so-called party of the working people. I am sorry but a corporatist is a corporatist no matter what color stripes they're wearing.

I think this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqpFm7zAK90">short video needs to be re-watched as a reminder.

[Clintonista2]

63. Right.. this coming from the only DUer who

Actually explicitly defended McClurkin. I've never considered you a HRC supporter, so this is really not news to me.

[Popol Vuh]

64. Weapons Industry

Which conservative has received the most money from the weapons industry? Oh yeah that's right its Hillary Clinton.

n/t

[Perry Logan]

67. Yea right. That's why progressive groups support her...

The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%

[rinsd]

70. You're asking people to join you in picking up and dropping candidates on a bi weekly basis?

:shrug:

[wiley]

71. Not an Obama supporter. Not with you or Obama at all.

[Zhade]

72. Well, no points for stating the obvious, but yes. Yes she does.

NT!