Who do you believe is telling the truth on the "Tipgate" issue - the Clinton campaign or Esterday?

[jefferson_dem]

Who do you believe is telling the truth on the "Tipgate" issue - The Clinton campaign or Ms. Esterday?

:shrug:

[Enrique]

1. both maybe

the tip might be out there somewhere

[TwilightZone]

2. Apparently, both of them are telling the truth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3701213

The tip was left, and a portion of it didn't get to the waitress in question.

[cuke]

23. Some posters only know black and white

They don't understand the gray areas in between. "If someone is telling the truth, the other one must be lying" is a logical fallacy

[cmkramer]

41. That makes sense to me too. n/t

[NOVA_Dem]

3. I wish I could vote for B and C.

[youthere]

4. Both A and C. They are not mutually exclusive.

[demnan]

5. The waitress who called the media crazy

was definitely telling the truth.

[Fresh_Start]

6. Look at Esterday's newest comments.

Essentially she's asking given the war in Iraq and gasoline costs why the hell is anyone spending an iota of time and effort on whether she got tipped.

She correctly realizes that its a non-issue and a RED HERRING.

[BeyondGeography]

25. That's great

Good for her.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[William769]

7. Credit card charges don't like, unlike some people.

Also the fact that the waitress in question is thinking about voting for Hillary and is NOT upset over what happened, pretty much says something about the people on DU trying to make something out of absolutely nothing.

[jmp]

8. I believe the one with some credibility.

...

[LanternWaste]

32. The media?

The media? :shrug:

[BenDavid]

9. Gee, is this 2007 or 2000? In February 2000

Hillary Clinton had just kicked off her NY Senate re-election campaign.Out of nowhere, a story appeared on "The Washington Times" about a woman who was:a single mother - serving a (gratis!) breakfast to Hillary in a diner - stiffed out of a rightfully-earned tip. It was picked up by "The Drudge Report", then the national media, and enjoyed several days' notoriety.
Flash-forward to 2007; Hillary Clinton is in a tight primary race in Iowa.Once again, seemingly out of nowhere, a story appears - this time on NPR's "Morning Edition" about a woman who is: a single mother - serving a (gratis!) breakfast to Hillary in a diner - stiffed out of a rightfully-earned tip....also posted on Drudge....

DO YOU GET THE PICTURE? YOU SHOULD...

Ben David

[Debi]

10. In seven years Hillary Clinton still hasn't learned to leave a tip?

:hide:

I believe this is a non-issue. At worst a mistake, at best a misunderstanding. with seven weeks to go before I have to decide who to caucus for, I would hope people could come up with concerns greater than non-tipping and where a person's hands are while the National Anthem is being played.

[Broke Dad]

11. Re: This says a lot about the Clinton organization

Anybody else remember a presidential candidate or president deny making a mistake, change their story, cover up, and then intimidate the press when they reported the mistake, the denial and the cover up? Nixon? W?

Clinton's response horrifies me. If this woman becomes president, we will see the abuses of power by W perpetuated, not reversed. God help us if we have eight more years of secrecy, censorship and intimidation of the press.


The story is about character of a candidate and her organization. It is a story about the refusal to admit a mistake and then the thuggery to intimidate everybody who witnessed and reported on the mistake.

[Debi]

12. Broke Dad - you didn't read my response

I just don't care. This issue is about somebody making a mistake and somebody else making a big deal out of it. That's all.

Give me better reasons to not support Hillary Clinton, but not this one. I will not - not support Clinton because a staffer failed to leave a tip/or did but it wasn't publicized. I will not - not support Obama because he didn't put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance which was actually the National Anthem. I bet we could come up with one minute thing that distractors want us to focus on as we decide who NOT to support. These trivial matters will not be that reason.

(on a side note...are you going to JJ?)

d.

[cuke]

26. You should care

This story is a lie. Clinton DID leave a tip. The mgr of the restaurant has already admitted he probably screwed up by not giving the waitress her share of the tip.

When the media lies about a democrat, you should care.

[Debi]

34. If all of us media viewers watched and read stuff like this story and laughed at

the inanity of all of it, maybe there wouldn't be so may stories like it. We look just as bad peeing ourselves about uncovering 'the truth of the tip' as the jerks who actually decided the mess up was news.

[cuke]

35. And if it started raining puppy dogs

we'd be too busy fending off all the puppy kisses to worry about this story

[Debi]

36. IT'S RAINING PUPPIES????

[cuke]

37. OMG, that looks just like the brownstone I used to live in, chimney and all

I better get back there quick!!

[twiceshy]

14. Exactly

This should never have been more than a small screw-up story. Everyone knows Hillary is not going to attend to the small details at campaign stops - like tips, hell she probably carries no cash. But by conflating and confusing the issue, blaming management and wait staff, and just generally making a hash of the matter, they have made it a story. And even worse for the campaign a story about character.

[DemBones DemBones]

15. Yes, it does, and Clinton is too smart to have such dumb stuff happening.

She needs to get on top of this because it's the second time she's gotten in trouble for not tipping a waitress.

[LanternWaste]

31. Is this merely conjecture on your part

"thuggery to intimidate everybody who witnessed and reported on the mistake."

Is this merely conjecture on your part, or is there a credible story circulating on how she initmidated individuals to change their stories...? :shrug:

[DemBones DemBones]

18. I get the picture that Clinton's staff doesn't take care of

tipping waitresses and then they try to say they did tip, making her look cheap. The person responsible for the tips should tip each server individually in the future.

i don't think Clinton deliberately stiffed these waitresses but I think she's clueless about how she comes across as not caring about working women, especially saying she was "proud" of the waitress in Iowa, which sounded condescending.

[cuke]

28. Are you always so oblivious to the facts?

Clinton did leave a tip

[ronnykmarshall]

22. Drudge?

Yeah I get the picture VERY clear now.

[jenmito]

13. I haven't heard one word about it in the MSM. Hillary probably tipped THEM not to run the story...

or paid them off...

[Forkboy]

16. You know, when you make comments like that it really doesn't help any of your other arguments.

If you can just go off without any facts at all why should I believe a damn thing you say about anything else? :shrug:

I don't like Hillary at all but I worry about some of you people.

[jenmito]

17. That's ok...

I never said it was a fact. I gave my opinion as to why there's been NO coverage of it in the MSM.

[Forkboy]

20. Do you believe your own opinion?

Or are you just tossing random stuff out there for the rest of us?

[ronnykmarshall]

27. It's called

Pulling things out of ones ass.

[jenmito]

29. Yup...

Just like Bill Clinton had the unfavorable GQ article squashed, I think they had THIS story squashed, too.

[ronnykmarshall]

24. Yeah ..

that's it.

:eyes:

[DutchLiberal]

19. For a community that is blasting the MSM for only reporting on trivial matters,

DU sure is awfully eager to discuss this non-issue.

[ronnykmarshall]

21. G'on Dutch!

:yourock:

[DutchLiberal]

39. I'm not even a Hillary-supporter, but this fake outrage is bogus and it needs to stop.

Like there's nothing more important than this...

[hfojvt]

30. "Esterday, all my troubles seemed so far away ... oh I believe in Esterday"

"Now I need a place to hide away" :hide:

[ecstatic]

33. Oh gosh. Maybe they should post the receipt/bank statement on SmokingGun.com

Will that be enough? :sarcasm: :eyes:

[HuckleB]

38. Take back the political discussion.

Don't talk about crap stories like this.

[killbotfactory]

40. They lied about the tip

A Clinton campaign staffer called on Esterday at the restaurant Thursday after the story aired. The staff member apologized to her and gave her a $20 bill, according to Esterday. The Clinton campaign confirmed that visit. The campaign also produced photocopies of receipts showing $157.46 was paid to Maid-Rite on a VISA card on Oct. 8 for meals consumed by the candidate's entourage. The tip was supposed to have been paid in cash, and the campaign insisted such a payment was made but has declined to make available a staff member who was present at Maid-Rite and left tip money.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16138132

There is a special place in hell for people who don't tip.