Some here seem very concerned about Dems and immigration. Have no fear...Rahm's here

[madfloridian]

to save the day. It appears he is pushing the Democratic caucus to support the Republican version pushed by Tancredo and the Democrat's own Heath Shuler.

That version is "enforcement only". I am sorry but voting for a bill being pushed by Tancredo is so far out of the realm of Democratic reality.

We have a majority in the House, and there are so many sensible non-hate inspiring versions of an immigration bill we could do if we were not so terrified of the right.

Markos said it just right.

Is Rahm racist, or merely scared?

It's got to be one or the other, because Rahm Emanuel is behind efforts to build Democratic support for the Shuler/Tancredo "enforcement-only" bill currently winding its way through the House.

Think about it -- our House leadership is strong-arming Democrats into backing a bill which is the central agenda of the biggest racist xenophobe Tom Tancredo.

..."So we won, didn't we? Not according to Rahm and the either bigoted or scared contingent in the House that is ready to -- once again and demonstrably so -- be on the wrong side of the American public on this issue.

Americans don't want hate-based anti-immigration rhetoric and action, they want comprehensive immigration reform that secures our borders and provides a path to citizenship for the millions of undocumented immigrants in this country.

Yet there's Rahm, with a big chunk of the Democratic caucus, making common cause with racist Tom Tancredo.

The Latino vote is volatile. It swings. And Democrats can't afford to lose 10 percent of their margin over stupidity like this."

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that even though we appeared to be getting bluer in Congress.....we were acting like we were redder than ever.

There is no excuse for this racist stuff from Rahm.

Here are a couple more write-ups I found about this and the way Rahm is handling it.

Here is one from Fire Dog Lake:

Rahm tells Dems to move right so as not to lose.

Two weeks ago he sent a DCCC-connected candidate training a video of himself haranguing congressional candidates to “move right” on immigration or risk defeat at the hands of Republicans. This is similar to the terrible advice he shoved down candidates’ throats last year, although then he was demanding they move to the right on Iraq, dooming the candidacies of Lois Murphy, Francine Busby, Ken Lucas, Tammy Duckworth, Diane Farrell and several others who went along with his demands. Yesterday Markos asked a blaring question at DailyKos: Is Rahm racist, or merely scared?. While walking the picket line at the WGA strike at Fox today Jane and I came up with the idea of inviting Emanuel over to FDL to ask him why he thinks adopting Tom Tancredo’s immigration ideas is a good idea and why he’s unleashed Heath Shuler to do just that.

This is exactly what I meant.

There was also a good post at Down With Tyranny recently:

Training Democrats to be well, good Democrats

Stand up, Rahm, come up with a good and fair bill. There is no need for our immigrant population to live in the fear they live in now. It is not necessary, and we do not deserve their vote.

Someone else had a pretty fair view. Doubt they will listen.

Democrats should not be using immigration to divide the country.

“We’re not going to divide Americans to win elections. The Republican Party’s ‘Southern Strategy’ used in the 1960s and 1970s lives today. In 2000, they used the racially charged word “quota” to divide African Americans. In 2004, they used gay marriage. And just you wait; in 2006 its going to be immigrants.”

Yes, it looks like we might use the issue to divide if Rahm gets his way.

[Richard Steele]

1. He's not "racist, or scared", he's a Repub with a (D) after his name. nm

[JeffR]

4. Was just going to post the same sentiments

You said it much better than I could.

[AtomicKitten]

2. No, Rahm. The Democrats need to act like Democrats to win.

[madfloridian]

3. Agreed.

:hi:

[polichick]

5. Rahm's not racist or scared...

And he doesn't care about solving the problem either ~ he's just aware that people across the country are angry about having to foot the bill (in many ways) for a failed federal policy and he wants to cover his candidate's butt.

[cuke]

9. repukes are the ones who get angry at paying the bills of civic duty

not liberals

[polichick]

13. Civic duty does not include paying the costs of illegal immigrants...

Again, you are a great example of why the Dems could lose the election on this issue ~ people are fed up with both Republican corporate welfare and irrational Democratic enabling.

[madfloridian]

15. So you agree in the "enforcement only" policy by Tancredo?

Perhaps I misunderatand.

[polichick]

16. I don't want to repeat everything I said on bunnies' thread...

But, in short, I'm for fining employers and removing incentives that reward people for breaking the law. I also support states that bring lawsuits against the federal government to recoup costs that have been dumped on communities and citizens.

If the very first thing a person does in a country is breaks its laws and disrespects its citizens, I don't think that person deserves to gain citizenship. There are many people waiting to become law-abiding citizens, just as our ancestors did. I don't think people should be jailed for entering illegally but I would most certainly send them back, just as I would expect to be sent back if I entered another country illegally.

Key to ending this crisis: fine employers big time and remove incentives like education and healthcare.

[madfloridian]

17. We only agree on one thing....fine the employers.

The rest is denying aid and help to fellow humans we allowed to come here, and yes we did "allow" it.

I can not go along with that.

[polichick]

18. Well, it's definitely a huge issue this time 'round...

I spend most of my time in the Northeast, Virginia and Florida and I don't know a single Dem who is for amnesty ~ for the employers or for illegal immigrants.

If an Independent candidate stepped onto the stage who was against war in the Middle East, for green technology and alternative fuels, and was strong on ending illegal immigration ~ he or she would win the election. There are more registered Independents than either Reps or Dems, and an Indie like that would carry people from both sides. That's why political analysts have been warning Dems, and why people like Rahm are worried.

[madfloridian]

19. Not true. Many many Democrats are for a form of amnesty...just fearful of the word

because they are afraid of the right wing.

[polichick]

20. What I said is true; I personally don't know Dems who are soft on immigration anymore...

You many know some who are afraid to speak up, and I wouldn't doubt that. Please don't doubt what I'm saying. This is the problem with the party ~ it's not listening to what people are saying, and could very well lose the election because of it.

[madfloridian]

21. I know many who work with immigrants here to provide legal advice.

if they are taken from their children. I am sorry but your posts are just not convincing me at all.

I think the Lou Dobbs kind of craziness is going to wear off very fast. We need to stand for what is right.

[polichick]

24. What's right is to protect our country and turn it over to our children...

...in better condition than it was when we came of age. What's not even close to being right is to pay for corporate welfare through taxes for the education and healthcare of imported cheap labor, or to reward those who would break our laws and disrepect us by driving on our roads uninsured, etc.

I'm sorry, but your idea of what's right is irrational ~ and it's our kids who will pay for it, along with our war debt and the rescue of the environment. There's nothing right about that.

Like it or not, those three issues will decide the election ~ whoever runs on them will win, so Dems had better wise up.

[madfloridian]

25. Then please feel free to call me "irrational."

We are taking people from their children, sending them to unknown camps in other states where governors can't even find them to see if they are illegal or legal.

Some of the ICE raids have taken mothers from nursing babies, and left children to a community that was not prepared to deal with them.

You have your version of winning. It is not the same as mine.

[polichick]

26. I do think it's irrational to put people who have broken our laws...

...over the welfare of our own children and the future of our nation. imo it's irrational and extremely short-sighted.

I'm interested in what's best for OUR country ~ and I don't care who gets it done. If it takes an Independent to get it right on those three big issues, I'll vote Independent.

Anyway, there's quite a long time yet to see who comes up with the best plan...

[madfloridian]

27. Wow

:wow:

[polichick]

28. Lol

Yeah, what a radical idea!

[cuke]

29. Incredible, aint it?

I know I've given you some stress over the issues, but I do have to give you credit. There's no doubt about which side of the line you're standing on. And you wouldn't give into rightwing fear mongering and throw things like the Constitution, elections, equal rights, etc just to keep them foreigners out.

[midlife_mo_Jo]

31. I wouldn't send them back

You're talking about some kids who go to school with my children. But I would revamp our policies so that we won't have twenty million more coming in behind them just in the next decade! We need an orderly controlled immigration policy that not only considers the immigrant's needs and big business, but the needs of the citizens of this country. Don't we count more than the corporatists? Apparently not. sigh Without very strict immigration laws curbing "illegal" immigration, and stiff fines for employers, we're just opening the door wider for more people to come and depress wages.

However, I think we need a sane policy for legalizing those already here. Our own government's lax policies was an open invitation to them; why wouldn't they come? They're here. Their kids are citizens of this country.

[amandabeech]

34. I don't think that we need to consider big business in any way shape or form.

After all, they don't consider us.

What goes around, comes around.

[madfloridian]

37. I never heard a word here about immigrants until Bush....and Lou Dobbs.

They have done a fantastic job of dividing our country and scapegoating a whole group of people who are here because our country and our employers let them come and did nothing to stop it.

Here in our area groups of lawyers are working to give them legal advice, because MANY who are legal were taken from their kids and jailed in some of those "private" interment camps.

This is not the America I knew.

Howard Dean called it, and he was dead right. Too right. I never really thought they would succeed this well with their propaganda. When most of DU has now become anti-sensible-immigration policy, you know they did quite well. Lou Dobbs will go down in history as the bigot who made a black mark on our country.

In 2005 Dean predicted the GOP would use immigration to divide us.

[seasat]

6. The majority of US citizens support humane immigration reform not Tancredo's.

I posted this poll in a thread that was started saying that immigration reform was a potential loser for Democrats. The June 22nd poll from CNN on that page asked about the McCain immigration reform bill.30% agree with it, 15% said it wasn't strict enough, 28% said it was too strict, and 22% were unsure. Therefore only 15% would support a Tancredo style policy. Rahm's position doesn't have the majority support of US citizens!

When someone rails on about undocumented workers, we simply ought to ask them, "What would you do if you were in their situation?" You can bet that if my family was in the kind of poverty these folks face, I'd be hoofing it across the border to pick lettuce.

[madfloridian]

23. Yes, they do. Thanks for the data.

:hi:

[amandabeech]

39. My guess would be that Rahm has some internal polling that suggests otherwise.

I don't think that he breaths without a specially commissioned poll and some focus groups.

I don't like the guy, but he plays for keeps and he wants the truth even if he doesn't agree with it.

[frazzled]

7. Sole source of this rumor: a Daily Kos poster?

None of the links in that Daily Kos post leads to anything that confirms Emanuel is pimping the Tancredo bill. So, unlike those willing to have a hanging party based on very slim evidence, I await more solid confirmation.

In the meantime, all I can say is that the rumor does not comport with my personal experience of Emanuel with respect to immigration. I attended a mass immigration rally over a year ago in Chicago--over 500,000 people (no shit, you have never seen anything this size in your life), 99% of whom were Hispanic. At its beginning, in Union Park, I heard Emanuel speak to the crowd (along with Obama, Jan Schakowsky, Luis Guiterrez, and others). He gave a very moving and heartfelt speech, citing his own family's immigrant status and the various waves of immigrants to this country over the years.

If he is trying to strike some compromise with Republicans to get some kind of immigration policy passed, I wouldn't be surprised: that is his job. But I refuse to believe that Democrats, including Emanuel, would let anything come to the floor that doesn't include some kind of path to citizenship ... it would be like hanging themselves with a prime constituency.

[madfloridian]

8. First off, Markos doesn't make stuff up and post it....would damage his reputation badly

Sorry about not getting back to answer this, having serious problems with my cable provider or modem or something. It is intermittent, and driving me crazy.

Bloggers who just make stuff up and post it don't last very long. I may not like a lot about what Markos posts, but I do trust him to be honest. Bloggers get all kinds of tips if they are trusted.

From what I gather progressive Democrats often talk behind the scenes when they are worried about what the leadership is doing. There has been a lot of discussion all over about this, and it is not a public stance apparently. I am adding some more links, some about a training that was held where it appears things were said.

I certainly do hope for the sake of the heart and soul of our party that IF he is doing this, pushing them on this....that it won't work. He for sure has been pushing them to move to the right, so I don't find this especially hard to believe in this climate right now.

There must be something healing in it, something sensible or we will fail millions of people. That would not only make it a losing strategy, it would just be very very wrong.

Here is some more stuff I have found. Rahm is a fighter, I agree. However the events surrounding the 2006 election win have soured me forever about him and Carville. If you read them all, you will find they do have sources, often far better than the media which is considered so honest.

Open Left on immigration and Rahm

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/11/which-imbeciles-are-listening-to-rahm.html

"Many of the Democratic candidates who went to the Chicago training the DCCC
has, unconvincingly tried to claim had nothing to do with them, have derided
Rahm Emanuel's awful advice that they throw Hispanic voters under the bus
and "move to the right" on immigration. But it wasn't only Emanuel's handful
of pet aasskissers who have decided to doom their candidacies with this
idiotic stand. Apparently, even as most Democratic candidates refuse to move
to the right to please Emanuel, John McCain and Emanuel are on the same
page."

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/11/will-bush-veto-anti-immigrant-bill-rahm.html

"Emanuel has demanded that Democratic candidates for 2008 "move to the
right" on immigration. He pulled the same stunt in 2006 when he forced many
Democratic candidates to move to the right on Iraq. Many of his puppets--
though, alas, not all-- lost because they listened to his horrible advice
about toning down the anti-war rhetoric. So while anti-war candidates like
Joe Sestak, Carol Shea-Porter, Patrick Murphy, Jerry McNerney, Bruce Braley,
Mike Arcuri, and John Hall beat Republican incumbents in Republican
districts, timid Democrats who bought Emauel's tone it down line, went down
to defeat. (That there are no congressmembers named Lois Murphy, Tammy
Duckworth, Ken Lucas, Francine Busby or Diane Farrell today is a direct
result of candidates who paid attention to advice from an ex-ballerina who
never fought against a Republican in his life-- only against progressive,
grassroots Democrats.)"

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/10/training-democratic-candidates-to-win.html

"This past weekend there was a meeting in Chicago that was put together by
AFSCME, the New House PAC, Christine Pelosi, and the DCCC. Nancy Pelosi and
Chris Van Hollen were there and Rahm Emanuel video-phoned in. The meeting
was billed as an "internal training" for Democratic candidates and although
I've talked off the record with several attendees, other than Christine
Pelosi, I found the principals and organizers to be very squirrely about the
whole shebang. Very hush, hush.

Just try to get a list of who attended-- let alone who invited them! The
DCCC, of course, aren't responding and the AFSCME folks say they'll "get
back" to me. New House PAC has an unlisted phone number and no e-mail
address available online but I still managed to track down an officer. He
was cold, secretive and... he'll "get back" to me too. When I asked him who
the candidates who were invited were and how they got picked, the
temperature on the phone dropped to 20 below zero, kind of like what
happened when I asked the same question of the various AFSCME people I spoke
with."

"And, predictably, the lowpoint of the weekend was provided by Emanuel who--
in much the same way he told Democrats last year to play down the anti-war
message, causing several who listened to him to lose their races-- demanded
candidates inoculate themselves against expected GOP attacks by moving to
the right on immigration."

xxxxxxx
More about the training boot camp from Jane Hamsher at FDL...

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/10/26/the-wisdom-of-rahm-emanuel-continues/

[cuke]

10. So IOW, "Yes, it is a single sourced report. Completely uncorroborated"

but if you like what it says, it must be true

[madfloridian]

11. Bloggers don't do that, it would hurt them badly.

You don't have to agree, it does not bother me at all.

I have presented numerous sources, and you two keep saying ONE SOURCE ONE SOURCE.

Believe it don't believe it.

I love the way our leaders are protected here. Lovely people coming to correct us peasants.

[cuke]

12. Yes, I hear Drudge is now panhandling

Besides, it's not just a question of honesty. People make mistakes. That's why banks have all their work checked by someone else.

Single sourced reports aren't worth the paper they're printed on, and that includes reports on the Internet

[madfloridian]

14. Tell me the "single source". Post it for me. Which single source?

Which single source?

[cuke]

30. You're absolutely right. I F'd up and I apologize

I don't why, maybe I hit the page scroll key twice without realizing, but I'm only just now seeing the multiple links you posted. Sorry about that

And yeah, Emmanuel is a tool

[madfloridian]

22. In the Ballot Booths, No Fixation on Immigration

This is an interesting article from the WP which rather illustrates that the extreme positions the GOP has been pushing are wearing thin. We need to be sure our party leaders stand up for what is right.

Remember we went into Iraq so we would not look soft on terror. :shrug:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2007/11/07/ST2007110700119.html?hpid=topnews

"Voters across Virginia chose candidates in state and local elections yesterday not out of anger over illegal immigration but based on party affiliation, a preference for moderation and strong views on such key issues as residential growth and traffic congestion.

With a few notable exceptions, the trend benefited Democrats and not those who campaigned the loudest for tough sanctions against illegal immigrants."

Fairfax County continued its transformation into solid Democratic territory, with as many as five legislative seats poised to fall out of Republican control. In Loudoun County, Democrats who campaigned on a promise to slow residential growth took over the county board. Even in Prince William County, where the board's chairman, Corey L. Stewart (R), won easily on a vow to crack down against illegal immigrants, the volatile issue was tempered by the victory of state Sen. Charles J. Colgan (D-Manassas), who had been painted as soft on the issue.

The returns provided the sharpest evidence yet that Democratic gains in recent state elections represented more than a temporary dip in Republicans' popularity. Yesterday's initial results showed that a more long-term structural realignment may be occurring and that voters are increasingly drawn by Democrats' promises to improve schools and ease traffic and away from Republican conservatism on such issues as taxes and social policy, particularly in fast-growing Northern Virginia.

"I did not think that immigration in and of itself would carry the day," said Sen. Richard L. Saslaw (Fairfax), who would become majority leader under Democratic control. "The results are proving that, while immigration is a concern to people -- and it should be -- it is not returning the votes that they thought that it would."

[madfloridian]

32. More details about how Rahm's position was revealed....

For those who questioned the honesty of the bloggers who wrote about it.

"A few weeks ago Democratic Party insiders under the aegis of the DCCC held a training session in Chicago for a couple dozen of their favored candidates. Afterwards several of the participants, disgusted, let Blue America know that Rahm Emanuel delivered an ominous message demanding that they "move to the right" on immigration. Some of the Democratic candidates, like Emanuel puppets Bill Foster (IL-14) and Joan Fitz-Gerald (CO-02), have already started sounding very Republican on the issue, breaking Democratic solidarity and threatening unity by seeking short term advantage based on demagoguery against a vulnerable part of our coalition."

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/11/rahm-emanuel-il-05-accountability.html

And this:

"What Rahm of course fails to realize, or chooses to ignore, is the fact that immigration isn’t necessarily a problem, and most of the issues surrounding immigrants that anti-immigrant voters find so angering are in fact symptoms of our problematic trade deals and backwards immigration policy. Immigration is not a bad thing, and denying the American dream to those who would pursue it is wrong, just like discriminating against German, Irish, and Jewish immigrants at the turn of the century was wrong."

http://www.theseminal.com/2007/11/14/raising-the-political-cost/

[amandabeech]

35. At the turn of the century, the U.S. population was 75,000,000 more or less.

Now, we're over 300,000,000, but the amount of land and water in the U.S. has not increased accordingly.

We have a very serious drought going in the Southeast, and a few places don't have water. There's a battle brewing between Georgia and Florida over the blue gold, and the Georgia farmers are nearly in revolt over the water use in Atlanta.

Meanwhile, out west, there's another huge drought going. Hoover dam is only half full, and it may not be full again until another 50 years, if ever. At some point, water supplies will be very, very tight out west and there will be a lot of very unhappy people.

Denver is also in drought, as are its neighbors on the Front Range. Many farmers have gone out of business and sold their water to the thirsty cities. However, that's no more grain or a lot less lean meat to feed the folks drinking the water.

Gov. Richardson wants to pipe Great Lakes water down to New Mexico, not move citizens of New Mexico to the water. There will be a lot of very upset types in the north over this, and I'm not just talking U.S. citizens.

We routinely have droughts in the farm belt and the plains, at least in those fields that haven't been paved over. If we keep paving at the rate we are now and increasing our population at that same rate, I doubt that we'll be able to feed ourselves in 20 years.

Global warming and climate change are upon us, folks, and we can't do everything like we used to.

This isn't 1900, and I think that we have to stop being sentimental and start being analytical about immigration.

All I want to know is where are we going to locate these new immigrants so that they have water and don't live on top of formerly productive farmland or environmentally necessary forests and wetlands.

I'm serious about this question, but I've never seen it rationally debated here.

[madfloridian]

36. Enforce the rules, and have better border security, fine employers.

The last...fine the employers...would just about take care of a lot of future problems.

Immigrants have been here for ages, they are not the cause of the job losses....the corporations are the problem.

Fine the employers, hold them accountable.

[amandabeech]

38. Well, that would cut down on the number of illegal immigrants, all right.

But we still let in 1-2 million legally as green card holders and I don't know how many on other visas.

I'm concerned that we've maxed out our carrying capacity.

I do, however, advocate a much more humane approach to deportation than we've shown, thus far. I understand why people come here illegally from crappy countries, although that certainly doesn't make it right.

I think that we need humane but secure facilities for those waiting. Maybe something like a cross between a modest college campus and a nicer minimum security prison, with suites for families and educational and recreational facilities for children.

[madfloridian]

33. Press conference tomorrow at Rahm's office...Blue America PAC

"Blue America PAC is a project of four leading progressive blogs: Firedoglake, Down with Tyranny, Crooks and Liars, and Digby Formed in August 2006, BlueAmerica raised over half a million dollars for progressive candidates in 2006 and is on track to do even more for 2008, supporting “more and better Democrats.”

"There will be a press conference tomorrow at 11:30 AM Central outside Conressman Rahm Emanuel’s office in Chicago (3742 W. Irving Park Ave.) - if you’re in town, please come by and show your support. And no matter where you’re located, you can join the Accountability for Rahm campaign with a donation at Blue America’s Accountability Moment."

Fire Dog Lake..holding Rahm accountable.

[madrchsod]

40. rahm threw cegalis under the bus

because he thought that everyone would feel sorry for duckworth...well that worked out real fine because duckworth lost and now both cegalis and duckworth are not going to run again. he did nothing to unseat hastred because the democrats in illinois needed him to get several billion for the construction at o`hare field in chicago.

rahm would flip his mother if it benefited his political future