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Can Obama Rock the Nomination? - Hillary Falls 10 Points in Poll

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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:08 AM
Original message
Can Obama Rock the Nomination? - Hillary Falls 10 Points in Poll
Edited on Mon Nov-12-07 08:27 AM by EV_Ares
By ANA MARIE COX Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama speaks at the Jefferson Jackson dinner in Des Moines Iowa, November 10, 2007.

How good was Barack Obama's speech at the Iowa Democratic Party Jefferson Jackson dinner Saturday night? Long after the event ended, as a scrum of giddy Obama staffers were all-but-forcibly exited from the bar of the Fort Des Moines Hotel, they struck up a spontaneous chorus of the campaign's newly debuted catchphrase: "Fired up!" Beat. "Ready to go!" Beat "Fired up!" Beat. "Ready to go!" This slightly manic release of tension and elation wasn't surprising. What was surprising was the person leading it: John Edwards campaign manager Joe Trippi, who punctuated each explosive slogan with a pumped fist. Not that Trippi is a convert. (One Edwards staffer said that Trippi was simply showing support for the "change gang.") And, it's true, the Edwards campaign is alive and well in Iowa. Privately, rival campaigns concede that Edwards would probably win if the caucuses were held, say, tonight. Says one organizer, "His supporters are largely previous caucus-goers; you don't have to convince them very hard to go again. Everyone else is going to need all the convincing we can manage in the next month and a half." The excitement generated by Obama's fiery but disciplined speech is a reminder of what it means to convince someone.

The speech mixed inspiration and contempt, passion and outrage, autobiography and attack. It balanced language that both harkened back to the rich, poetic phrases of Martin Luther King (he cited King's reminder about "the fierce urgency of now") and the less subtle patois of contemporary politics — his boast that "when I'm your nominee, my opponent won't be able to say that I supported this war in Iraq; or that I gave George Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran," was a deft jab to the very center of Hillary Clinton's weaknesses in the Democratic primary. Unless you think he got to the center of her weaknesses here: "Not answering questions because we're afraid our answers just won't be popular just won't do it." Or maybe here: "Telling Americans what they think they want to hear instead of telling the American people what they need to hear just won't do it." And yet he ended on a soaring note: "at this moment — let us reach for what we know is possible. A nation healed. A world repaired. An America that believes again."

After the most recent Democratic debate late last month, Obama was gently scolded by the pundit class for having denied them the fireworks promised between the Illinois senator and Hillary Clinton. Chris Cillizza chided, "He is not someone who enjoys direct confrontation and is still learning the political necessity of the tactic," while Real Clear Politics accused Obama of "backing off." Perhaps, some theorized, he was somehow suffering from his ability to "transcend politics." He was a rock star without an anthem, all charisma but no courage.

Staffers say that the senator struggled with the perception that he was coasting. "It's a much more visceral message now," says senior adviser David Axelrod. "It's much more from his gut ... the stakes are high, and he wanted to make sure his full motivations were clear." And over the past few weeks, his attitude evolved from trying to figure out what might be going wrong to realizing there was, Axelrod says, "a reason to do this now." As he told CBS news in the days before the dinner, "I think there was a period of time when things were static and people liked what they were hearing from me, but they didn't have a sense that there were significant differences between me and Sen. Clinton."


Indeed, Wednesday, he reminded the listeners of Radio Iowa that "'politics of hope' he's been talking about don't mean that things come easy — or that there won't be a fight." Thursday, he said of Clinton's ethanol position, "If she's willing to shift this quickly on this issue, we don't know whether she will shift back when it gets hard," then dinged her on Iran: "Just remember who got it right and who got it wrong in the most important decision!"

As Clinton trudged through a week of momentum-sapping process stories — her supposed failure to leave a tip, the presence of a planted question in a town hall — Obama appeared to gain energy. His speech at the dinner was the performance of a politician, not a rock star. But he has found his voice.

Link To Time Article: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1682827,00.html

Latest Poll for Dems; Marist College Institute For Public opinion http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/marist.pdf
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. watch this croc tear fall.
poor Hill, being guaranteed her inevitable office and all.

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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. Average people are just now really paying attention
and weighing the options. Not like us freaks (and the media hoards) who start pondering candidates the day after someone is elected :hi:

I think polls before late Fall of primary season are junk.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. I have deliberately been undecided--Yes, Obama can be
inspirational, but when the crunch is on--HRC will be the nominee.

Odbjectively speaking, their positions are so close (and must be
to pass must with the elites) --I am sorry to sound so cynical.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Actually their postions are not that close or similar. There may be some; Like her
Edited on Mon Nov-12-07 08:37 AM by EV_Ares
supposedly (secret plan for social security), he has announced his, her position on Iraq and again turned around and gave Bush authority on Iran, etc.
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samroberts Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. Clinton is still better
Did we all forget about the 90's?
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. So if that is the case, maybe you could clue us all in on how she is
better. Thanks.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Oh, you mean Welfare Deform and that Giant Sucking Sound?
Fuck the DLC.
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. agree
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. She held a public office in the 90s?
Please advise.

Oh, and welcome to DU :hi:
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
30. I wish I could!
The 90's was the worst decade of my life; TO THAT POINT! My 6th. It was a creatively constipated time period, moving toward one size fits all and additives in our food! Compared to the Greatest Gen., the Boomers are practicality, efficiency challenged! Sorry....... but Truth! Probably as a result of delegating to the kids?
I just bought a 2 gallon gas can. It says right on it not for pouring gas into your car??????? Why else would you have a gas can? It also has no hole for relieving vapour lock???????? There were no other choices in the store?????????
Of course the NEw American Century is much much worse! Travertine is becoming the new pink & gray checkerboard tiles or avacado & harvest gold appliances!
The leaders? I won't even go there!
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kilesimon Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. Clinton is still number 1
remember the 1990's.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. And again, it shows there must not be much substance there as nothing
to back it up why she is #1. I don't think that is working with voters, they want more of a change from the Bush policies.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. UH!.............
I don't think Bill's name is on the ticket! (unless you're hoping for a "two fer" !! Ya can't go back. "There's no way to get there from here."
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. "The fierce urgency of now" = great reminder. nt.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. wonderful phrase
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hillary fell 5 pts. Her lead fell 10 pts. From 21 to 11.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. What was the MOE on that poll?
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. From the poll
Nature of the Sample: 1,453 New Hampshire Voters
This survey was conducted from November 2nd through November 6th, 2007. 1,453 registered voters
and New Hampshire residents who are likely to register in time to vote in the New Hampshire
Presidential Primary were interviewed. The sample was selected in proportion to the voter
registration in each county in New Hampshire and adjusted for turnout in comparable elections. All
interviews were conducted by telephone. There are 658 potential Democratic presidential primary
voters including 379 Democrats and 279 Democratic leaning independents. There are 533 potential
Republican presidential primary voters including 397 Republicans and 136 Republican leaning
independents. The results are statistically significant at "4% for potential Democratic presidential
primary voters and "4.5% for potential Republican presidential primary voters. There are 458 likely
Democratic presidential primary voters and 372 likely Republican presidential primary voters. The
results for these sub-samples are statistically significant at "5% and "5.5%, respectively. The error
margin increases for cross-tabulations.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. Thanks. This must be the poll from the other day then? That breakdown
looks familiar. I had an apple pie on the oven when I looked at the thread so I was distracted.
So... it's a dip, but could easily be a statistical wash?
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. it's all about timing
peaking at the right time did wonders for Edwards last time around; certainly the Obama group in IA observed this last time.

There are some smart cookies in the IA campaign.
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NOVA_Dem Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. It's disappointing to see Olbermann spinning the results...
of this poll. I just watched him and Craig Crawford try to downplay all the good news for Obama this weekend and I just wish he would come out and say that he is in the Clinton camp. I mean it's obvious that Tweety is sweet on Obama why can't he just come out and say it.

Olbermann did his best not to mention that he's tied in Iowa and neglected to mention that Hillary dropped 10 pts in NH.

And he treaded lightly on the planted question issue. Now that there is video of the questioner giving a BIG WINK to Hillary's aide that ought to give the story another day or two.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Keith is a HillShill
and he's been that way for awhile now.
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NOVA_Dem Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I've noticed it too. It's like watching a RW pundit avoid bad news
for GWB. Sometimes they just avoid the topic completely.

I wonder who he thinks he's fooling. The people that watch his show pay attention to politics; not like those people in the national polls. And when half your audience realizes that you're shilling for one candidate and not their own...they're going to think less of you. I'm sure HC supporters were nauseas when watching Hardball today.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Keith lives in New York
probably has some buds in the Hill camp. To your point, he should understand that many of the people who love his scorched-earth anti-Bush rants are not Hillary fans. He should throw us a frickin' bone every now and then.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
37. I've noticed he's done a couple of, um, journalistic no-no's
in dealing with Obama. He clipped quotes of Obama and didn't provide the video like he did the other candidates in his piece making fun of Kucinich's UFO answer. And he does subtle things with titles on the screen. In one segment labeled "questionable behavior" which was about Hillary and the plant, he kept that title on the next brief segment on Obama. Subtle, but I'm seeing the snark.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. with the help of the media he can.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. What's with the fake headline?
I haven't seen a 10 point drop in any poll.
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NOVA_Dem Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. In the Marist Poll here:
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Its semantics. That poll shows a 5pt drop in Hillary's support. Her lead has dropped 10 pts
Though interestingly in the "total" section which includes Indies and GOPers who plan to vote in the Dem primary, her support only dropped 1 percentage point.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Yes, like I said. What's with the fake headline? (That link confirms that your headline is a fraud)
Edited on Mon Nov-12-07 09:49 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
"Falls 10 Points in Poll" is a phrase with a well understood meaning... a drop of ten points. Not five.
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NOVA_Dem Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. It's not my headline and her lead dropped 10pts spin it as you wish
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. Barack's timing is splendid, watch Hil's numbers shrink in the upcoming weeks, this is
too great, and it's only going to get better.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
32. Betchya he blows it.
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DeaconBlues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
33. So, Obama does pretty well with a prepared speech
Too bad he sucks ass at debating....
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Phunktified Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. and he's rather weak and answering questions in front of the press
Did you see him yesterday? His bit about how "WE don't plant questions." That part was fine, but then his explanation of the importance of Iowa Town Halls was sort of like, "yea, we get it Barack." I dunno, it's wierd. He's sort of like Kerry at his worst sometimes with press questions...
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #34
35.  "He's sort of like Kerry at his worst"
Have you ever taken into account that both of these fine Democrats are HIGHLY intelligent, and that they THINK before they speak? Unlike some other "foot in mouth" pols who just talk to hear themselves? It's too bad that some of we Dem's don't take the time to LISTEN ! I agree tho' that Obama is not as good a debater as Kerry, but this is just the Primaries. I think he'll do muuuuuuch better when he's facing a repuke, don't you?:shrug:
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-13-07 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
36. I don't think Clinton's doing all that badly
but Obama can still take the nomination.
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