The Great Drivers License Debate is .........

[Stinky The Clown]

[annabanana]

1. other... It's a gross simplification of legitimate attempts

to define and quantify the problem. If they don't have licenses, they will drive without them, or, more likely, with phony ones. And we will never know how many or where they are. Perhaps drivers licenses aren't the proper way to get a handle on it... but I haven't actually heard anything else that sounds like a plan....

[Breeze54]

2. and they won't have car insurance without them either.

But it is a complicated mess, I guess.

There are 'international licenses' and I don't understand why they don't just get them?

I think they have to have insurance with those too.

[riqster]

5. It is, indeed, complex.

SFAIK, there is no international driving license as such- there are permits that you can get as adjuncts to your local license. In the US, we can get them after showing our license, proof of insurance, and the usual fee, picture, and such. Ours are good for one year, and are valid in a LOT of other nations, but not all. Other countries have similar procedures. Your mileage may vary.

Looking at it from an illegal alien's perspective, it seems kinda totally stupid to get documentation of my illegal presence from the Man, who will use that proof to deport my ass. Kinda like laying out a line of Toot on a narc's desk.

[Breeze54]

6. I used to check International licenses

when I worked at the DMV, so that they could get a state driving license. ;)

It seemed it was mostly students and workers with work permits that were applying.

------------------------

Foreign Visitors Driving in the U.S.

http://www.usa.gov/Topics/Foreign_Visitors_Driving.shtml

Quick facts for foreign visitors about driving in the United States

1. An international driver's license must be obtained from your home country.
This permit only verifies that you hold a valid license in your home country.
It is your foreign driver's license that allows you to drive in the United States.
Contact the authorities in your home country to get an international driving permit,
as the United States does NOT issue international driver's licenses to foreign visitors.

2. If you obtain a valid international driver's license from your country of origin before
you come to the U.S., you may rent a car and drive before you get your U.S. driver's license.

3. A U.S. driver's license is not a federal document, but it's a permit issued by one of the 50 states' motor vehicle departments.
If you're going to reside in the U.S., it may take several months to obtain a U.S. driver's license.

4. Foreign visitors who become U.S. residents can only obtain a driver's license from the state in which they reside.
Each state has its own driving rules and regulations.
Check with your state's motor vehicles department to find out how to apply.

5. Once you receive your U.S. driver's license from a state motor vehicles department,
you will be permitted to drive in all other U.S. states.
The laws in each state vary from one to another.
It is your responsibility to know and obey the laws of that state while driving.

6. The residency requirement for obtaining a U.S. driver's license varies with each state.
Consult the motor vehicles department in your state for more information.

7. If you are a foreign student coming to the U.S. to study, contact the university or college you
will attend, as most institutions provide students with driving information and most have websites.

8. The U.S. government has issued warnings about Internet vendors of worthless international driver's licenses.
It is important to educate yourself about the dangers of these costly and illegal operations.

Here are two resources:

# International Driver's License Warning from Federal Trade Commission
http://www.usa.gov/external/external.jsp?url=http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/driveralrt.htm

# FTC Targets Sellers Who Deceptively Marketed International Driver's Permits over the Internet and via Spam
http://www.usa.gov/external/external.jsp?url=http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/01/idpfinal.htm

[riqster]

9. Thanks!

That's about how it works for me when I drive overseas (that is to say, driving in other countries that are on separate land masses, across an ocean. Driving over seas is called 'boating').

It looks about the same for people from other countries who want to drive here.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. This is NOT about licenses. It is about giving Republicans a wedge for 08

Yes, licenses are a **small** part of the larger debate. But they are a simple issue even morons can comprehend. Hence, it has been **made** an issue .... just like gay marriage last time.

DO NOT GET SUCKED IN.

[Breeze54]

14. Deleted by poster.

Posted in wrong spot.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Deleted by poster

[Breeze54]

19. Wow, I made a mistake and you get pretty nasty.

Did you have to much coffee today?

Take a chill pill.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Deleted by Poster

[Breeze54]

23. umm,...yes, you did but who cares?

"I neither said you were an idiot, not did I even reply to you"

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Deleted by Poster

[Stinky The Clown]

26. Thank you

I pulled all my posts in response to you pulling yours

[CTyankee]

3. This issue, as framed, is toxic for us. Hillary had the best response, a simple "No."

The repubs want us to play on their field, by their rules. Screw that. Our nominee for president should say what Hill said. Poor Obama took the bait and got caught in his words, just as Hill did last time. You'd think he would have learned from her experience. Altho I think the real answer is that the drivers license issue cannot be solved without a comprehensive plan to reform immigration policies, it is obvious that the repubs just want to demogogue this issue. They have no intention whatsover of wasting their time on trying to figure out a solution. Screw them!

[BootinUp]

4. #3.... It was also a seed that was

spread by Hillary's competitors and then it attacked them back. lol.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. No

That was the Junior version of the game. The REAL Big League Game was Russert doing it for the Republicans. Anything the Democratic camps did with it was Little League.

DO NOT GET SUCKED IN.

[BootinUp]

15. Like Obama got sucked in?

I guess I don't agree with you. It was Obama's and Edward's choice to pounce on Hillary at that debate and for 2 fucking weeks, over an issue they largely agree with her on. I enjoyed watching Obama get his comeuppance last night.

[Stinky The Clown]

20. Agree with me on what?

I agree they pounced on her.

My larger point is that their pouncing was bush (no relation) league ..... the Big League pounce was Russert hanging it out there and our side getting smacked by it. The fact is, HRC now owns the issue and the ankle biters tried to make it stick. In making it stick, they got some blowback (or was that splashback?).

[BootinUp]

22. Sure, but I already voted your #3

You seem to want to pick a fight with me. I could be imagining it.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. You're imagining it.

Everybody thinks that of me at one time or another.

I'm not. If I were, it would be real obvious. (No snark intended).

[BootinUp]

31. no problem. nt

[Indy Lurker]

7. Why is a drivers license even used as ID?

I can't use my fishing license to open a bank account.

Why not separate the two. The DMV could still issue both, they could even use the same photo.

One says license to drive, and is only valid for driving related things,

The other is an ID with a photo, name, address, social Security #, etc.

You can only get the ID with all the requirements of the REAL ID ACT.

[robcon]

8. OTHER - it's a legitmate issue.

People who have broken the law to get into the U.S. should not get drivers' licenses.

The ability to drive is a privilege, not a right.

[annabanana]

13. yeah... like they're not driving. .

And if abortions are outlawed, no one will try to get one anyway...

[robcon]

28. And murder also happens though it's illegal.

I would describe your post, annabanana, as saying if something is common, let's make it legal.

That's a prescription for chaos, but it seems to make you feel good.

[Stinky The Clown]

16. It is a TINY, MINISCULE PART of a larger issue .... it is not THE issue

You're falling for the distraction, exactly as they wish you to.

Yes, drivers licenses is an issue, but ONLY as a small, tiny, minuscule SUBSET of the much large matter of IMMIGRATION. It was chosen BY THE REPUBLICANS and catapulted into the arena of propaganda by their water boy, Russert, just so we can fight about it.

Us fighting is half the GOAL. The other half is to get the MORONS to think about it and go "Yeah, What Tancredo Said!" and "Yeah, What Rudy Said!" and "Yeah, What Fred Said!" and ..... you get the idea.

DO NOT GET SUCKED IN.

[robcon]

29. YOU are the one who's been sucked in, husb2sparkly.

It seems obvious to those who have ANY connection to the populace that it's not right to let people who are here illegally to have the same privileges as those who are here legally. This would die out if Spitzer/Clinton would have listened to the people, IMO.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. I actually never took a side in this debate .......

.... so actually I am NOT being sucked in.

My POINT was ..... talking about drivers licenses in a vacuum is campaign bullshit put out by the REPUBLICANS.

We shouldn't be talking about this ONE POINT when there is the MUCH larger issue of immigration to settle first.

[Indy Lurker]

27. Should they get insurance?

Should they get insurance?
Should they report drunk drivers?

Who is going to do either if they are driving without a license?

The only way to have compliance with a law is through enforcement.
Illegal activities only stop when the chance of getting caught exceeds the possible benefits of the activity.

Should you enter the country illegally? NO.
Should you drive without a license? NO.
Should you drive over the speed limit? NO.

Being wrong doesn't stop the problem.

The police can't even enforce speed limits, which they can measure with a speed gun.
How can you hope to enforce a license requirement when reasonable suspicion is required to check someones license?

[mtnsnake]

12. something they're all worried will come back to haunt them in the General Election

[Stinky The Clown]

17. If it haunts them in the general, its because THEY GOT SUCKED IN

DO NOT GET SUCKED IN.

[yellowcanine]

30. over, because immigration is now officially the "third rail" for the 2008 campaign.

Damn shame too, because it is an important issue that needs to be debated. Spitzer was right the first time. It makes no sense to not license undocumented aliens. They are still going to drive, but now they will not be tested for driving skill or knowledge and will not have insurance either. That's JUST what we need on the roads.:sarcasm:

[Stinky The Clown]

33. You're right ......

.... and once again, the debate is framed to favor the REPUBLICANS.

Russert carried the water, but the play was called from on high. And we got suckered ..... again.

Licenses are such a small part of the BIG ISSUE ...... and they manage to reduce it to the easily demagogued thing about licenses that even fucking morons can understand while avoiding the hard work of the REAL issue.

Amazing ....... and our side falls for it. HRC got smacked with it and then the ankle biters keep it alive for weeks.

What are the REPUBLICANS saying about it? Can anyone say what they're talking about? ..... ? ...... ?

Probably not. Instead its each little, meaningless nuance of a turn of a clarification that ANY Democrat utters that the chattering class yammers about. Why do the **assholes** on OUR side fall for this shit over and over and over??????

[yellowcanine]

34. You might as well ask why sh*t stinks. It just does that is all. But imo the main reason is

because the Democrats are too scared to make a cogent argument and stick to it. The MSM doesn't help by dumbing down all the arguments and focusing on the horse race aspect of the debate rather than making the candidates discuss the issues.