Why isn't $97,000 per year middle class? Check this out

[hedgehog]

http://www.lcurve.org/


Even better

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5297476348213155147


$97,000 is not an outlandish income, but it's a heck of a lot better than most people are doing!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Like most folks I know in Arkansas

I made less than $20K last year, but it was still a lot more than many of my neighbors made.

[hedgehog]

3. Depending on where you live, $97,000 can go a long way or a short way.

For a pair of adults with no kids, it can buy a trip to Europe on a regular basis or a high end apartment or house. Toss a couple college tuitions in there though, and $97,000 gets awfully small awfully fast. The sad part is that too many people at the high end of middle class have no idea how many people are just barely scraping by.

[Emillereid]

4. Add living in Southern California and it gets even smaller!

[FreeState]

24. I can't survive off that here in San Diego and neither can most here

if I did not have a partner that pools his income with mine I would have to move.

[DesertFlower]

28. san diego is outrageous.

[Joe Fields]

31. bullshit.

there are a great many people who live in San Diego on a hell of a lot less than that. They seem to be surviving.

[FreeState]

32. Are they home owners?

On my street there are now three homes for sale because the owners can not afford the payments and have to move to survive. This is almost 10% of our street. The value of our house has increased more than anyone would have guessed - my partner got it for 145K 9 years ago. Care to guess what its worth now? Over 800K. And this is a "middle class" neighborhood (in-fact many of the relaters information still show it as a minority neighborhood) - its a 1400 sqr foot house that is almost 100 years old for Christ sake.

Most of the families in this area are living pay check to pay check.

[hedgehog]

33. Which opens an entirely new can of worms about how real estate

speculation and boom towns have priced basic housing beyond the means of the middle class. Houses here can not be sold while house in the Atalanta area, North Carolina and California are going for absurd prices. This is a side effect of the empty factories all across New York and the midwest. People move to where the jobs are and put incredible pressure on real estate.

[DesertFlower]

10. i'm someone with an income

higher than that. that being said, my husband and i are "older" and have have worked our way up to that income.

we are aware of how many are barely scraping by because we've been there. we don't travel to europe and we don't live in a high end house. we live in a nice house, but not the kind that our income would allow us to. we live below our means. we know that if one of us were to become ill and require long term care, everything we have would be gone. health insurance and medicare do not cover "long term care".

financial experts say that if you want to live comfortably in retirement, you must live below your means while your working.

[hedgehog]

13. you're an example of someone who is doing well, but not as well

as your position on the income distibution curve may suggest. Say you're doing better than 97% of the people in this country. You still earn less in a year than the people in the 99% earn in a week or even a day.

[hedgehog]

14. you're an example of someone who is doing well, but not as well

as your position on the income distibution curve may suggest. Say you're doing better than 97% of the people in this country. You still earn less in a year than the people in the 99% earn in a week or even a day.

[frazzled]

17. It means $97,000 per SINGLE adult, not a pair, or family

It seems kind of crazy to keep repeating it, but when we are talking about Social Security income, we are talking about a single individual earning up to $97K. Social security taxes are taken out of paychecks of each individual ... not, like income tax, on joint income.

For a pair of adults, we would be talking about an income of $194,000 before the cap is hit ... which is hardly middle class.

[DesertFlower]

19. exactly. i'm retired so it's

$97,000 on 1 income.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. If where you live, 97,000 goes only a short way, then you need to go a long way.

I recommend stock in u-haul.

[DesertFlower]

23. we got out of the stock market

years ago. when you're close to retirement it's better to keep it in a stable fund.

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. I had more of an investment of $500 in a one-way move to the midwest in mind.

:hi:

[DesertFlower]

26. okay, now i understand.

:blush:


we live in a place that's rapidly growing. prices have gone up, but it's still a good place to live. our taxes are still relatively low.

[Deja Q]

2. With inflation, the skyrocketing of college costs and other factors,

all I know is that working incomes have not kept up; working incomes that gave baby boomers and their parents comparatively cushy lifestyles.

[hedgehog]

6. Here's the other part of the problem, how do you define middle class?

By one definition, middle class is the median income which is around $40,000 I believe. CLearly, if you're making $97,000, you'd be in the upper class.


Define middle class as being able to afford a middle class life style, and $97,000 is middle class or maybe upper middle class. If you use that definition though, you'd have to recognize that the vast majority of Americans are now in the lower class. We've gone from a standard curve (some poor, mostly middle class, some rich) to some distorted L shape.

[DesertFlower]

27. no they have not.

and social security payments have not gone up enough. the COLA for 2008 is 2.3% and medicare is going up again as it does every year. i can't believe prices -- not just gas, but food -- everything has gone up not 5 or 10 cents but 30 cents and more.

my elderly mom's income is not going to cover her expenses. she's going to have to start to dip into her savings.

[David Zephyr]

5. K&R. Most informative and kudos to David Chandler, too.

Thanks, hedgehog, for posting this here. K&R.

[DesertFlower]

7. it's a good income

depending on where you live, whether or not you have kids.

[asdjrocky]

8. Wow,

I live in Sacramento Ca, not exactly cheap, and I made a little over 40k last year, and I'm barley making it. Guess that's why I support Edwards.

I think he really knows what poor or middle class means.

[Selatius]

9. Take this job and shove it.

Work will make you free

In the original German: "Arbeit macht frei"

[hedgehog]

12. While I agree that income distribution is a serious problem, I don't

think it's proper to compare having a job to being a resident of Auschwitz. Not even a bad job falls into that category.

[Selatius]

34. It's not a comparison to Auschwitz.

The slogan was a Weimar-era slogan used by the government as part of a program of large public works projects to alleviate poverty post-World War I and Great Depression. The slogan was ultimately appropriated by the Nazis for their own purposes and twisted. True, the slogan was featured atop the gates of Auschwitz and other death camps, but it was also featured on various other government buildings in Germany as well, but today people only remember it with Auschwitz.

In relation to the poster, the term takes on the cynical tone of the promise of reward for hard work at an undetermined and later date, with no real guarantee that the reward will come except the idea that hard work in itself is rewarding.

[dflprincess]

11. If any income is going to be exempt from Social Security taxes

it should be at the low end - something like the first $20,000 (provided people at that income level still get credits for SS). Taxing income up to $97,000 and then announcing people making more than that can't afford to keep paying SS taxes makes no sense to me at all.

[hedgehog]

15. I like your idea. It's almost a variation on the alternative minimum tax.

Maybe people below a certain income level should receive an automatic tax refund/ tax credit.

[DesertFlower]

16. that's a good point.

$97,000 is the amount for 2007. it goes up to $102,000 for 2008. that cap has been rising every year for as long as i can remember. in 1987 it was $48,000.

i don't want to keep paying more into social security every year when millionaires are paying the same amount as i am.

[SaveElmer]

18. The point isn't how many are at $97,000 now...the point is how many believe they will be...

How many in the $75,000 and up range that can see $97,000 in a relatively short time...

Lifting that cap would be a very, very unpopular idea, and a gift to the Republicans...

[Fearless]

20. Middle class has a very wide definition, essentially those who

need to work down to those who cannot support themselves if they lose a job.

[fed-up]

21. I'm surviving on $3K a year (no mortgage and food stamps helps) heaven

forbid my car should break down and the rise in gas prices means less food, who the hell needs lunch anyway???

I had planned on having a roommate to help cover expenses, but no-one wants to live on a former meth property

F*ck our public health/epa for not ensuring that former meth labs were cleaned up or that the public was even aware of this issue

[ecstatic]

29. I live better in GA then someone making 3 times as much in Cali

I love the weather in Cali, and the culture in NY and DC... but I cherish the ample space and comfort I have down here in GA. The only thing I regret is that this is a "red state."

[DesertFlower]

30. when you collect social security benefits

they are taxable when you make over a certain amount. i've been paying tax on my social security for years. in my case it comes to about $346.00 a month. the government has got you by the balls even when you retire.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Can-I-Really-Avoid-Income-Tax-On-Social-Security?&id=755794


Threshold income is the government’s formula for determining how much of a person’s Social Security is taxable. It is calculated by adding half of a person’s Social Security income with any other income they may have. The following threshold limits determine how much of a person’s Social Security is taxable:

• A single person with $25,000 to $34,000 in threshold income: 50 percent of Social Security is taxable.

• A single person with more than $34,000 in threshold income: 85 percent of Social Security is taxable.

• A married couple with $32,000 to $44,000 in threshold income: 50 percent of Social Security is taxable.

• A married couple with more than $44,000 in threshold income: 85 percent of Social Security is taxable.