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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 11:03 PM
Original message
Biden Cuts To The Chase....
Biden Cuts To The Chase at 11/15 Debate
By John V. Kjellman
November 23, 2007 | 09:42 PM
Senator Biden may have a reputation for long-winded answers, but faced with little air time at the last debate he set the standard for no-nonsense responses that left viewers with a clear understanding of his grasp of complex issues and of how he would deal with those issues as president. No other candidate offered such clarity on the challenges we face in Pakistan and Iran.

In my opinion, the only other person on the stage who expresses his views as forthrightly, without consideration of how they will be taken by the chattering classes, is Rep. Kucinich. I wish the world were ready for a Kucinich presidency, but it isn't.

But I do believe the country and world are ready for a Biden presidency. None of the candidates are perfect, but Biden has an incredible combination of traits that I want to see in our next president.

Biden will tell us what we need to hear, not what we want to hear, and is willing to forego the presidency if he we reject his view of the world we face. I don't believe some of the other candidates meet that standard.

We are in a global economy, and a global society, and the number one challenge for the next president will be in the foreign policy arena. Foreign trade, immigration, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, global warming, you name it, they are all foreign policy issues. No other presidential candidate has Biden's experience in foreign policy, experience well-respected by all of his Senate colleagues, with whom he would have to work closely as president.

Biden has made a commitment to veterans that stands above the commitment of any of the other candidates, so far as I know. He told a veterans group that as president that he would fully fund our veterans health and medical care programs as a first priority of Federal spending. He states, "we have a sacred obligation to take care of our veterans." There is true passion in his voice when he makes that statement.

There's more, but that's all for this entry.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/primaryvoices/2007/11/biden_cuts_to_the_chase_at_111.html
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ya know, I don't give a flying crap about "long-windedness" when the speaker
so accused makes sense.

If Joni Mitchell can sing for 15 minutes, I'm all ears. If she wants to sing long past closing time, that's even better.

Biden nows what he's talking about.

Good article, excellent post. Thank you.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
54. Exactly, OC
If there's something worth saying, take the time it takes.

The reverse is also true: pithiness isn't much of a virtue when there's nothing much being said.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #54
66. Kick
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. A Hillary/Biden ticket would be a point of "perfection"!
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The River Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. This Is A Biden Thread
but you just can't resist pushing Hill.

*adds to ignore list*


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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Nice to know there are posters here who LOVE making my day/night!
many thanks!
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. That's okay
Tellurian is one of the "nice guys" and often says positive things about other candidates.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I agree...
very open minded person. We could use more of them...
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
49. You're joking, right?
The poster you mentioned is one of the most vitriolic posters on here. He doesn't stop at simply criticizing the positions of other candidates (mainly Obama), but he also engages in ridiculously juvenile character assassinations on a regular basis. Hell, even the website in his sig is one big Obama bash- by an anonymous domain holder, no less.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. No, I wasn't joking...
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 03:43 PM by 1corona4u
he/she has been very civilized on Biden threads....perhaps Biden is their 2nd choice? Who knows, but I have to be fair about this. They have caused no issues in the past, in regards to Biden. Sorry. And, by the way, 2 of the rules of this board, say that you don't call other people out, and post about their other post, in unrelated topics.
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Fair enough
Maybe 'other candidates except Obama' would be a more accurate description. If you read any of the comments that poster has made about Obama, I think you'll see why I reacted so strongly to your comment.

BTW, Biden is quickly becoming my second choice. I really like Dodd, too, but I believe that Biden is much more electable. He's a bit more hawkish than I would prefer, but he definitely knows his stuff. I really like his candor, even if it does get him into trouble on occasion.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Yeah, he's just really up front...
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 05:36 PM by 1corona4u
I don't mind it really. I'm that way too, and all of my friends would, and have, said about me; "One thing with her is, you know where you stand"..LOL..

The other thing I really like about Biden is his ability to get votes for things across the aisle. We all know it's critical to getting things done in this country. Here's a great picture of Chuck Hagel joking around right before Halloween, and while it's not in this pic, giving Joe his birthday gift...they like each other a LOT, and there has even been some speculation as to whether or not Joe would consider him as a VP....I think that would be history making, and fascinating at the same time...but I do think Joe has him in mind for his SOS.


Here's the video;
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/31/will-the-real-joe-biden-please-stand-up/



I'll see if I can find more on these two..I know they have been to Iraq together as well...



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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. Great pictures!
I especially like the last one.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #62
74. Yep, the last one
made me laugh out loud for some reason. In the 2nd, Biden looks like a principal giving his prize pupil some major award ;)
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Jennifer C Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #58
68. Saving those photos
They are great, thanks for posting :-)
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. I like them too..
the video is great as well...
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. It doesn't make sense to me to have a vp who knows more than the president.
Hillary is smart and talented, but Biden has the experience that's really going to be necessary for the next president to tackle the plethora of very difficult and complicated challenges that we're currently up against. We're involved in 2 wars; it doesn't get any more serious than that. I'm not saying Hillary couldn't handle it, but Joe Biden is one of our nation's foremost foreign policy experts. It's a good time to have a foreign policy expert in the White House. In addition, Sen. Biden wouldn't excite the Republican base the way a ticket led by Hillary Clinton would.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yeah...
that would be like giving the store clerk the general managers job....no offense to Hillary, but clearly Joe has the kind of experience, and history needed to get the job done. Now Biden/Clinton I'd be ok with...
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. I'm sure you meant Biden/Hillary....Wouldn't work, she couldn't take
someone smarter than her.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. LOL...yeah, I know....
but I have seen people say too many times that they would be ok with Clinton/Biden, and I have to chuckle....I don't think anyone wants to be Hillary's VP. It'd be such a do nothing job....
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. I am sure Biden is too smart
to even consider this. Hillary's VP would not be a very enviable nor interesting position. Actually, it may be interesting, but not in a good way.
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Basileus Basileon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. You have half that ticket right. I'm thinking Biden/Richardson.
Hillary is a good Senator; she can stay there.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. Biden/Richardson would be an excellent choice...
Maybe then we could get some diplomacy going and rejoin the human race.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #47
73. I'm starting to think about this now...
just thinking on it....don't think I'd mind too much though...
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
56. That would certainly be a foreign policy powerhouse
wouldn't it?
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
55. Serious question:
what is it you think she brings to the table that he doesn't? I'd love specifics if you can.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-23-07 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great Article
Biden is without a doubt, the most experienced candidate out there. America would do well to put him the Oval Office.

-Paige
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for sharing, Icorona4u.
It's interesting that the more informed people are the more they tend to lean toward Sen. Biden.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. I disagree
I don't think the number one challenge for the next president will be foreign policy.

I think the number one challenge for the next president will be the economy and domestic issues. If those aren't taken care of, foreign policy won't matter.

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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Excuse me?
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 02:19 AM by 1corona4u
Foreign policy is a critical emergency right now. It, without a doubt is the most important. How would you fix an economy who's gas prices affect the cost of everything in this country, and are at an all time high, because of beating the war drum with Iran, if foreign policy is not the priority? Not to mention that we're pissing off a lot of other countries...

I think you have it backwards my friend.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Foreign policy affects domestic economy
As long as we have a trade agenda that ignores labor rights, safety, environment... we will never be able to compete globally. Everything that is going on domestically is due to the economic philosophy of the political leaders. You can't fix anything domestically without changing our global policies.

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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. And our misadventures in the Mideast are profoundly
affecting our domestic policies. Until we address the war in Iraq, we can't fix the mess we have at home.

We can do both but foreign relations take top priority right now.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. They're interconnected.
Where's the budget for domestic anything? Ask the fearmongering war profiteers who purpousely create dangerous international situations so Congress coughs up the unaccounted cash for them.
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skyblue Donating Member (724 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. Foreign policy is more important to voters.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. The current administration is using the war in Iraq
to siphon off our treasury to their CEO friends. The impact of that on our domestic economy is huge. Also, with the Doomsday clock set 5 minutes to midnight, I'd say foreign policy is the most critical factor facing our nation today.

http://www.thebulletin.org/minutes-to-midnight/timeline.html
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
57. Well, they're both critical now -- thanks to Bush
But it also works both ways: if the foreign policy side of things blows up (and we walk a razor's edge now), all the great domestic policy will be sort of useless.

It's got to be all of a piece. They're entirely connected, not separate things.

A smart foreign policy leaves us safe and untroubled at home. And leaves us in good stead with the rest of the world vis a vis economic issues. A strong country on the domestic front is in better shape to deal with the uncertainties of the bigger world.
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. Dear 1carona4u...Thanks for posting this wonderful item. People
should pay as much attention to articles like these as they do the sales prices at WalMart...
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. You are so right.....
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 10:28 AM by 1corona4u
This is the problem as I see it in this country. I have a friend who's mostly apolitical. She doesn't care what is going on in the world, doesn't have time to even think about it. Yet, she has not made the connection on how it affects her everyday life. She's a registered Ind. but when I asked her the other day who she was thinking of voting for, she said Romney. I calmly asked her what she liked about him, and she said, and I quote; "I don't know, I'll look at it when it gets closer"....I suspect her boyfriend likes Romney, and so she is just following his lead, which is another problem with this country.

People, I think, are mostly too busy to really go look at their candidates platforms, and they know a fraction of their history, and experience, yet, they fall in line to vote for someone they don't even know. Then, there the other people who ignore the right people because they don't fit the "mold" they have created for a president. Those people have very shallow requirements, and tend to look at the superficial flaws of each candidate and rule them out for reasons such as "I don't like his/her looks", and other silly reasons like that. People say it all the time, "he/she doesn't look presidential".....but I ask you, does this man look presidential;



Or this one....



By today's standards, neither of these men would have ever been elected.

Bottom line, people need to get past the physical person, look at their history, experience, and finally, look into the candidates soul. No other candidate running has put his soul on public display like Biden has. No one. People say he's a gaffe machine, he talks too much, he's full of himself, blah, blah, blah.....the reality is, he has been straight up with the people of this country and they are just blowing him off. Personally, I want a president who's confident with himself, tells it like it is, and bares his soul for the rest of us to see. That's what you call a genuine person. Love him or hate him, he is genuine.
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Exactly
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 10:41 AM by Steely_Dan
In a recent essay I wrote, I emphasized that very word to describe Biden..."genuine." For those that feel he is a gaffe machine...well, that's what you get with genuine people. You know exactly what they are thinking. It comes with being genuine.

I do not see this same unvarnished persona in the other candidates (perhaps DK comes closest). With the other candidates, you feel as if you are seeing a "package." They are cautious and choose their words carefully...the essence of being political.

Joe's not perfect. None of the candidates are. I don't agree with everything he has done. However, there are so many other factors regarding Biden that I feel compelled to support him. I hope that I have studied all of the candidates' skills and experience in good faith, trying to be as objective as possible. I simply do not see another candidate that can match up to him. At least not yet.

-Paige
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. And, Biden on Gaffe;
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monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. Thanks for posting that, it was priceless!!
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. One of those "Biden Moments"
Unforgettable and very clever.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. That is my absolute favorite...
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 11:25 AM by 1corona4u
I like it as much, if not more, than "a noun, a verb, and 9-11, there's nothing else"....
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
42. The expression on Biden'a face
defiant and a little bit humble as well.... very nice.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
61. Too bad they didn't ask Shrub this question before the Selection, sheesh..
Now THERE's a Gaffe Machine fer ya.

(that question pissed me off when I watched it the first time, but was priceless having the time to watch Biden's stoic reaction again :-)
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. LOL...
Yeah....shrub...I have to turn OFF the TV when he comes on...I'd like to be running TO the TV in the future. :-)
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Good post, 1corona4u. You won't see planted questioners at a Biden rally.
Sen. Biden is authentic. I don't think he knows any other way to be. He's what our nation used to look for in a president. We've become too shallow, complacent and materialistic. Too many Americans would rather hear sugar coated lies than the hard truth, but the truth is what we need to set things straight in this country. Joe Biden is a sraight shooter; he tells the truth. We have to come back to our senses or face some very difficult times ahead. Electing Sen. Biden as our next president would be a good step in the right direction, but there will still be a lot of work to do beyond that.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. I think a lot of people are in denial
Underneath their superficiality, lies a pervasive fear of the future and they don't want to face that fear. I sense in a lot of young people, a fatalistic attitude, as if we're headed toward total disaster, so might as well enjoy what time we have. Or if you ignore it all, it might go away. I've never seen anything quite like this before, so it is hard to define. The problems are so big and so global, it seems beyond human resolution.

Perhaps they are right, but I'm not ready to give up as yet.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. I think you're right.
Those of us who they look to for direction must be mindful of that dynamic and teach them, particularly by example, that we should never give up, and that there's no substitute for rolling up the sleeves and getting to work on the problems we face.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Sadly, they've never been prepared for that
That is not the world they were raised in and it will be a hard sell.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. True, but it's the truth and they need to be taught the truth.
For a change.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
50. I was really impressed the other day...
there was a kid there, a cousin of a friend, and he was 11. This kid was so in the know it was mind boggling. I have never seen any kid like him. He knew politics inside out, he knew everything that was going on now, and why, and he was able to sit at a table with all of us who were 40's/50's, and never once did any of us think he was not qualified to be in the discussion. Of course, he is probably 1 in 10,000 that isn't just wrapped up in video games, and has an interest in what his future is.
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #50
63. That is amazing and gives me some hope
I'm around a lot of young people and occasionally there are a few who seek me out and ask me questions. They are curious but their life styles don't encourage intellectual curiosity - it is all about competitiveness. They do well in school and sports, but rarely display independent thought, though I know they are capable of it.

The Internet has aroused them to seek answers in many cases and I encourage them to do their own research, not to depend on my opinions. They are "programmed" enough already and need the thrill of discovery on their own terms.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
71. Plus...
He can answer any question thrown at him, without breaking a sweat.....
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. It is really scary
We forget that a large percentage of people are apolitical, but they often vote despite their ignorance. Many people put more thought into purchasing curtains than they do in choosing a president. They'll make their decision based on hearsay, not bothering to do any research on their own.

Mitt Romney does LOOK the part and people who are looking for the appearance of a president, could easily fall for the window dressing. Civics and political science should be required courses in school. As a nation we are sadly ignorant and ill-informed.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. That's what bothers me with my friend...
She's always been a materialistic person, prefering looks over substance. She does it with all things in her life. Scary thing is, she has 2 kids, 9 and 6. It seems that I am more worried about her kids future than she is most of the time. She thinks in the here and now, not down the road. I was like that in my 20's, living one day at a time, but whe I got into my mid 30's, I really started paying attention to the rest of the world. She's 41, and still doesn't care.....
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. She is a prime example of a consumer driven society
Very little independent thought in the world today, which has been the downfall of society in the past.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
60. That, she is....n/t.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
43. I'm following up on my own post...
I just talked to said friend, and wouldn't you know, her boyfriend is a REPUBLICAN, and he likes Romney...go figure...she will follow him lockstep I'm sure...
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
36. "I wish the world were ready for a Kucinich presidency..."
I really wish people had the courage of their own convictions...The author openly ADMITS he would prefer Kucinich, yet pushes Biden.

I don't see the point in compromising, myself - at least not until AFTER the Primaries...but even if Kucinich is not the nominee, I don't think I could support Biden.

In light of some of his votes and some of the things he has written - especially in beating the drums for War with Iraq, I don't think he is any more trustworthy than Hillary or John Edwards. For someone touting such apparently extensive Foreign Policy credentials, his continued votes for WAR seem either woefully stupid or criminally complicit next to Kucinich's.

JUST MY OPINION, however.

Support Dennis Kucinich TODAY! He's just plain SMARTER!
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I don't understand this comment,
and I feel it shows your lack of knowledge on the subject;

'especially in beating the drums for War with Iraq, I don't think he is any more trustworthy than Hillary or John Edwards. For someone touting such apparently extensive Foreign Policy credentials, his continued votes for WAR seem either woefully stupid or...'


What do you mean "his >>continued votes<< for WAR"? He didn't vote for the war. He voted to allow use of force, if needed, along with 76 others, with the stipulation that Bush would have to go back to congress before using any force, which Bush circumvented. Biden did not support the Kyle Lieberman Bill, and has the only viable plan for Iraq, and bringing the troops home.

Obviously, you can think what you like, and vote for who you choose, but stating things as if they were a fact is not right. And, the country is not ready for a DK presidency. Sorry, it's just not.
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AlertLurker Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Knew ABSOLUTELY What Would Happen - Voted "Y" Anyway.
Here's the first one:

DE Sr Senator Joseph R. Biden Democrat Vote: Y

H J Res 114: To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.

Vote to adopt a joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.

- Authorizes President to use United States Armed Forces against Iraq

- Requires President to report to Congress no later than 48 hours after military action has started with his determination that diplomatic efforts alone could not protect U.S. national security nor enforce United Nations resolutions regarding Iraq

- Requires President to submit a progress report to Congress every 60 days on matters relevant to this resolution


House Passage Vote: 10/10/2002: Passed: 296-133 (Roll No. 455)

Senate Passage Vote: 10/11/2002: Passed: 77-23. Record Vote Number: 237

Presidential Action: 10/16/2002: Signed by President. Became public law #107-243.


And the second one:

DE Sr Senator Joseph R. Biden Democrat Vote: Y

S J Res 23: A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.

Vote to pass a joint resolution that allows the President to use force against nations or groups that harbor or aide terrorists.

- Authorizes the President to use force against those who planned, carried out, supported or aided the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001 or harbored the terrorists in order to prevent future attacks on the United States


House Passage Vote: 09/14/2001 Passed: Unanimous Consent.

Senate Passage Vote: 09/14/2001 Passed: 98-0. Record Vote Number: 281.

Presidential Action: 09/18/2001: Signed by President. Became Public Law # 107-040.

I could post the Reauthorization, Military Appropriations and Defense Funding bills he voted for as well, if you like...you are right. FACTS are FACTS.


Ever read this? It's from 2002. Pretty much tells me that he knew EXACTLY what was going on, at the time...

http://biden.senate.gov/newsroom/details.cfm?id=189649

"Various experts have testified that as many as 75,000 troops may be necessary, at a cost of up to $ 20 billion a year. That does not include the cost of the war itself, or the effort to rebuild Iraq...

Americans are largely unprepared for such an undertaking. President Bush must make clear to the American people the scale of the commitment...

This is one reason why we will need our allies to help rebuild Iraq. Cementing a broad coalition today will keep the pressure on Hussein to disarm, build legitimacy for the use of force if he refuses, reduce the risks to our troops and spread the burden of securing and reconstructing Iraq..."




I guess I see things differently than you do. As far as a "lack of knowledge" goes, I see a vote to authorize * to go to war as a vote for war. I also see a vote to fund *'s war as a vote for war. One bright note, you are right - he didn't vote for Kyl-Lieberman...

If America is not ready for Kucinich, I am very afraid for America's future. Unfortunately, I can't vote for ANYONE in the Primaries or the GE. As a Canadian, I can't even CONTRIBUTE, other than to buy a couple "Kucinich 2008" seatshirts...I suppose you are glad of that, though...

Support Dennis Kucinich TODAY!!!
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Yes, I am.
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 01:10 PM by 1corona4u
The second bill you posted was 3 days after 9-11. What would you expect? It passed 90-0. Duh. That bill was for getting OBL. It had nothing to do with Iraq. It was for going to into Afghanistan. And, lets' be real. There were NO terrorist in Iraq before Bush went there. None.
It's clear NOW, that from day 1, he was going to Iraq, with or without congressional approval. If they all would have said no, we'd still be having this Iraq war conversation. Paul O'Neill stated, on the record, that 10 days AFTER Bush was in office, he told them to "find a way" to get into Iraq. So it doesn't matter who signed what. So to say that the bill signed on the 14th of September would have allowed Bush to go to Iraq is just wrong. He had no justification to go to Iraq, at all. They fabricated it, just like he told them to do.


I believe Biden has said, repeatedly, that he regrets his vote. At least he's honest about it. And, yeah, I am comfortable knowing that one-trick ponies don't stand a chance in this election. DK couldn't even manage the city of Cleveland. He's right on a couple of things, but the way he goes about things, leave him open to be chastised, and seen as a fanatic. Therefore, taken less seriously. This is his 2nd attempt to become president, and I think he has about the same chance this time, as he did last time.

Thank GOD you aren't able to vote here.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
59. Correction....
that should have said 98-0. I guess my fingers were out of control, LOL...
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. DK voted against children's health care - No Thanks!
That to me is worse than all of the bad votes Biden has made combined.
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #44
67. on most of those votes you refer
Biden made sure our troops were equipped. unlike what bushyboy wanted. bushyboy keeps them there, Biden sees to it they have the armor and the vehicles to keep them safer.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #67
72. Exactly...
and he continues to ensure it to this day....
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Steely_Dan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. I Understand Your Passion for DK
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 01:27 PM by Steely_Dan
He is probably ahead of his time with regard to the progressive agenda. And that's too bad, because I agree with much of what he says. I simply do not think (pragmatically) that this country is ready for Kucinich.

I think that there is a natural tendency to support DK on this board. Those that would take the time to belong and participate here tend to be more activist than the average Dem/Progressive. As a result, Kucinich polls well here.

There were to recent polls on this board that I found very interesting. One was "who is the most qualified..." and the other was something to the effect of "who would you choose if you couldn't vote for the top three (top tier)..." In both cases, Biden did extremely well. Kucinich finished ahead of him in one of the polls...however, I tend to take votes for DK on this board with a grain of salt.

I like Dennis. He represents the far left of our party. There are certainly things on the far left that I wish we would immediately adopt. However, I must look at the times we live and the extremely difficult task set before our country. I simply do not see a close second to Biden...I just don't.

-Paige
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #36
64. I respectfully disagree
Kucinich is an honorable man and an exceptional public servant, but I don't think he's "smarter" than Joe Biden - smart in a different way perhaps.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
38. Here's a great commentary I just found-from an Iowa paper...
Edited on Sat Nov-24-07 12:09 PM by 1corona4u
excerpt from a while ago, but read the whole thing...it's good...

"We’ve developed a curious way of picking candidates for the presidency. These political “debates” we keep having are really more game show competitions than debates.

We line up the candidates and say: “Tell us your plan for reforming Social Security, Medicare and the tax code. You have 30 seconds.” It makes gibberish of our political dialogue.

If a foreigner, totally unfamiliar with any of the candidates, had walked in on the Philadelphia debate, he’d have had no problem picking out the most qualified candidate. It was, without question, Joe Biden.

Biden, who has been around the block 143 times, simply knows more about government, particularly foreign affairs, than any of the others. Naturally, he has no chance.


I swear, if I wake up one morning and Rudy Giuliani is president I’m moving to Canada. Northern Canada."

————

Donald Kaul is a nationally-syndicated writer. His column appears Sundays in the Times-Republican.

http://www.timesrepublican.com/include/articles.asp?articleID=15077
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. How many journalists, state legislators, etc. have to point this out before...
America wakes up to the winning candidate who stands right before their eyes. Sen. Biden is the winner of the 2008 presidential election, if Democrats choose to win.
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Exactly...
what is so hard to understand about that? I said it before, this country needs to support the one who CAN win, not the one they hope can win, or the one they THINK can win.
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kad7777 Donating Member (339 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-24-07 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
45. JOE BIDEN the right choice for AMERICA
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1corona4u Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
70. I posted this...
on another thread, but it's a great interview, and you can see the dedication in him. It also speaks to the mistake of the IWR;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6fzbvOvU18
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PatSeg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #70
75. It was a great interview
Here is my favorite Biden speech. Blew me away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7yhHWuTC4
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