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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 12:31 PM
Original message
The Lord at Obama's hypothetical dinner table
LAT: The Lord at Obama's hypothetical dinner table
By DON FREDERICK and ANDREW MALCOLM
November 25, 2007

During a 1999 debate of Republican presidential contenders, George W. Bush famously cited Jesus when he and other candidates were asked to identify the "political philosopher or thinker" who had most influenced them. Last week, Democratic White House contender Barack Obama broached Christ in answering a different question, picking him as one of three historical figures with whom he would like to have dinner.

The query was posed to Obama by a reporter with the Conway, N.H., Daily Sun. (The candidate dropped by the newspaper's offices while stumping in the state.) Making Obama's cut, along with Jesus, were Mahatma Gandhi and Abraham Lincoln.

He then stated the obvious: "Not a bad list."...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-ticket25nov25,0,4332664.story?coll=la-home-nation
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jesus, Ghandi and Lincoln. Good list.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. "we must embrace christ" - B. obama nt
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I just love politicians who want to tell me what my religious beliefs should be.
:puke:
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. How did he do that? n/t
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. telling me I must ebrace Christ - wtf business of his is it who I embrace???
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. You're imagining. He never told you that.
Sorry.
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. When did he say that? n/t
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Did he actually say that and, if so, in what context? Link please.
Edited on Sun Nov-25-07 01:03 PM by jefferson_dem
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. He said this: "I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."
Edited on Sun Nov-25-07 02:07 PM by Skip Intro
He finished his brief remarks by saying, "We're going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/08/obama.faith/index.html

Pledging to help infuse the government with the same spirit of charity and love that the church brings him, the Senator preached to the South Carolina congregation, "I can be an instrument of God they same way all of you are."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/10/obama-faith-pla.html


And we all know his embrace of homophobic "religious" hater McClurkin.


I don't want the right OR the left telling me what the hell I should beleive. Just protect my freedoms and run the damn government, and get the hell out of my personal business.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. And Clinton attends secretive evangelical prayer groups with Senate rightwingnuts
Edited on Sun Nov-25-07 02:34 PM by ClarkUSA

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

Clinton declined our requests for an interview about her faith, but in Living History, she describes her first encounter with Fellowship leader Doug Coe at a 1993 lunch with her prayer cell at the Cedars, the Fellowship's majestic estate on the Potomac. Coe, she writes, "is a unique presence in Washington: a genuinely loving spiritual mentor and guide to anyone, regardless of party or faith, who wants to deepen his or her relationship with God."

<snip>

The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.


http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-2.html

You were saying?
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. I was saying, wtf kind of Kingdom does Obama want to build?
despite your deflection
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. IMO you are over reacting
Obama never said what YOU should believe. He was speaking to a religious audience when he said "WE must embrace Christ". Unless you attendended that church, I don't see how you came to that conclusion
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. It's obvious Obama is a closet Christian Dominonist bent on World Domination.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7235393/the_crusaders/
The Crusaders
Christian evangelicals are plotting to remake America in their own image
Meet the Dominionists -- biblical literalists who believe God has called them to take over the U.S. government. As the far-right wing of the evangelical movement, Dominionists are pressing an agenda that makes Newt Gingrich's Contract With America look like the Communist Manifesto. They want to rewrite schoolbooks to reflect a Christian version of American history, pack the nation's courts with judges who follow Old Testament law, post the Ten Commandments in every courthouse and make it a felony for gay men to have sex and women to have abortions. In Florida, when the courts ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube removed, it was the Dominionists who organized round-the-clock protests and issued a fiery call for Gov. Jeb Bush to defy the law and take Schiavo into state custody. Their ultimate goal is to plant the seeds of a "faith-based" government that will endure far longer than Bush's presidency -- all the way until Jesus comes back.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. Oh, barf. nt
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. If you really want barf, go here...
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. That's interesting.
Edited on Sun Nov-25-07 03:02 PM by AtomicKitten
Wow, that should let the air out of some tires around here, eh?
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Isn't it? What do you think of this?
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. Oh, but I thought Obama was so much more progressive than Hillary
Or is that just in the brochure?

P.S. I'm not a Hillary supporter. You were saying?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. I am agnostic and have no problem with people of faith.
I've noticed some of the more strident anti-religious types here are just as obnoxious as the Bible-thumpers. This isn't anywhere in the ballpark of an either/or issue. It should be a live and let live but don't get your chocolate in my peanut butter issue. Peaceful coexistence is what it's all about.
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm agnostic as well.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. But which Jesus Christ would he chose to have dinner with?
The Prince of Peace/feed the poor/heal the sick JC? Or the Supply-side muscular bomb the poor and give their wealth to the money changers JC?
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. If you've been listening, you'd know it was the Prince of Peace/
feed the poor/heal the sick JC.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Praise the Lord!
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. FACTS: Obama on Separation of Church and State
Barack Obama answered some questions on religion asked by a correspondent for CBN. While he does often speak of the influence of religion on hs life and views, he isn’t interested in recent polls where he is considered among the most religious candidates of either party, stating, “I don’t think it’s helpful as candidates or as a country to get into discussions about who’s more religious.” Obama also discussed separation of church and state:

For my friends on the right, I think it would be helpful to remember the critical role that the separation of church and state has played in preserving not only our democracy but also our religious practice. Folks tend to forget that during our founding, it wasn’t the atheists or the civil libertarians who were the most effective champions of the First Amendment. It was the persecuted minorities, it was Baptists like John Leland who didn’t want the established churches to impose their views on folks who were getting happy out in the fields and teaching the scripture to slaves.

It was the forbearers of Evangelicals who were the most adamant about not mingling government with religious, because they didn’t want state-sponsored religion hindering their ability to practice their faith as they understood it. Given this fact, I think that the right might worry a bit more about the dangers of sectarianism.

Whatever we once were, we’re no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of non-believers. We should acknowledge this and realize that when we’re formulating policies from the state house to the Senate floor to the White House, we’ve got to work to translate our reasoning into values that are accessible to every one of our citizens, not just members of our own faith community.

Obama also spoke about separation of church and state during last week’s CNN/You Tube debate. By showing his concern for separation of church and state while also taking about religion, Obama might be able to receive considerable support from both religious and secular individuals, consistent with his campaign theme of bridging divisions in the country.


http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=1907

At the CNN/YouTube debate, he answered a question on this topic:

One of those who asked a question at the CNN/You Tube debate shared my concern about the manner in which the Democrats are going after the religious vote. He asked, “Am I wrong in fearing a Democratic administration that may be lip service to the extremely religious as much as the current one? And if so, why?”

While hardly matching Arnold Vinick’s answer, Barack Obama had an acceptable answer:

OBAMA: I am proud of my Christian faith. And it informs what I do. And I don’t think that people of any faith background should be prohibited from debating in the public square.

OBAMA: But I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state, and I think that we’ve got to translate…

(APPLAUSE)

By the way, I support it not just for the state but also for the church, because that maintains our religious independence and that’s why we have such a thriving religious life.
But what I also think is that we are under obligation in public life to translate our religious values into moral terms that all people can share, including those who are not believers. And that is how our democracy’s functioning, will continue to function. That’s what the founding fathers intended.
Besides outright standing up for separation of church and state, which is essential as many Republicans deny that this is what the founding fathers intended, Obama makes another important point which I’ve also noted here many times. Separation of church and state is not just a current liberal idea. Separation of church and state was an important idea to the founding fathers, and historically many religious groups also recognized the importance of this principle. The rights of everyone to worship, or not worship, as they choose can only be preserved if there is strict separation of church and state. As in so many other areas, Republicans demonstrate that their rhetoric of skepticism towards government does not translate to their policy decisions when they allow the government which they claim to distrust to become intertwined with religion.

Obama’s statement here on separation of church and state is clearer than anything I’ve heard from the other Democratic candidates, and obviously is a sharp contrast from the theocratic views of many of the Republican candidates–including GOP maverick Ron Paul.


http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=1881

'Nuff said.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. Since there is no evidence that Jesus existed
how about Santa Claus and the Eastern Bunny to join his table too?




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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. No evidence that Jesus existed! are you series? This is hugh!
That's it, I'm an atheist now!
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Um...dude, you need a history lesson.
There is abundant evidence that Jesus existed. Now, the stories of miracles are another matter, but there is no doubt among historians that Jesus existed.
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sufrommich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. I'd like to see this "abundant evidence"
could you provide links? Also,there are plenty of historians who will tell you there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that Jesus existed,only second hand information passed on years after Jesus was purported to have lived.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-25-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. The real truth about God! Watch the Zeitgeist!!!
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-26-07 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
30. Jesus would be a great dinner guest--they'd never run out of wine!
Jesus and Abe were both pretty good storytellers and I could see Gandhi getting in some good ones too.

Sounds like a fun night. Nice choices Senator.
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