Colobo
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Mon Nov-26-07 10:58 PM
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The real question is: Would you vote for a black man or a woman? |
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Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 11:00 PM by Katzenkavalier
More than questioning the electability of Barack and Hillary and using such argument to excuse not supporting them, I think the question that you need to ask yourself is: Do you feel comfortable voting for a black man or a woman for President? Who gives a damn about how others feel about the subject? Are YOU uncomfortable with those choices and prefer to talk about other not voting for them to mask your own prejudices?
I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but I'm turning the electability question around.
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ixion
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:01 PM
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1. Sure... race/gener has absolutely nothing to do with it...for me, it's all about the person |
K Gardner
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:01 PM
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2. Absolutely I'd vote for them and will IF they're the nominee.. |
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Right now, however, their barrage of attacks on each other and by their surrogates are turning me off to both of them.
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EFerrari
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:02 PM
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3. I'd vote for either or better, both. |
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But, I don't think I can vote for a candidate, no matter their gender or color or whatever, who panders to the worst in our civil society.
I realize that in holding that opinion I'm being naive in a way -- it's the job of politicians to gather up votes.
But, I guess where I come down is, I can't vote for a politician who isn't also a leader. And you're not a leader if you simply accept the Republic framing and try to shake it down.
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Catherine Vincent
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:02 PM
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4. Yes, with stipulations. |
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They'd have to be a Democrat!
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feminazi
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Tue Nov-27-07 06:56 PM
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67. I'm with you on that. |
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I can't see myself voting for Alan Keyes or Liddy Dole.
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Boojatta
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:03 PM
Original message |
Maybe you should start by asking the people on the Supreme Court. e.o.m. |
waiting for hope
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:03 PM
Response to Original message |
5. I could really care less about |
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Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 11:03 PM by waiting for hope
that - I'm voting for the candidate who's platforms represent my ideals the closest. I honestly like Obama, but I really think he's making some rookie mistakes. I could definitely go for an Edwards/Obama ticket. As for the other, I'm going to be nice tonight...;-)
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Rosa Luxemburg
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message |
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I think it is important to have a black person man or woman as president. However it also depends on their ability. It would be a change from the old gray haired man in a suit! The Democratic Party needs to promote fresh things into politics.
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burrowowl
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:04 PM
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napi21
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:05 PM
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8. My personal preferance is neither Obama or Clinton, but it has |
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nothing to do with race or gender. I am going to vote for Biden because I like the way he answers all the questions, I like his style of telling you what he thinks wether it's what you want to hear or not, and I like the questions he asks in the various hearings. He is far lass scripted than the others, and that's what I WANT in a President.
I also will vote for whoever the Dem candidate is in the General!
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rufus dog
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Tue Nov-27-07 03:18 AM
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53. your comment is great! |
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It has nothing to do with race or gender but who you feel will be the best. I support Obama based upon my belief that he will be best for the Country. Race has nothing to do with my opinion. Now when we can get the crackers in South to see things the same way we have made some progress! (Thinking of the Seinfeld episode about anti-dentites, forgive my poor attempt a humor)
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sakabatou
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:06 PM
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9. It wouldn't matter to me |
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However, how they vote on issues and where they stand DO matter to me.
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EffieBlack
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:06 PM
Response to Original message |
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The "I wouldn't have any problem voting for him/her but OTHER PEOPLE won't give them a shot, so they aren't electable" claim reminds me of the business person who says, "I don't have any problem hiring a black person for the job, but MY CUSTOMERS might not like it, so I'd better not do it."
Your question will surely give lots of people plenty of food for thought.
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proud patriot
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:06 PM
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11. I'm proud to have voted for Jesse Jackson 4 President |
NMMNG
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:06 PM
Response to Original message |
12. I love the idea of a black person or woman for president |
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Or any traditionally "minority" group member. But if they're not the right person for the job I'm not going to vote for them just to feel good about making a statement.
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hlthe2b
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message |
13. I'd love to bring Barbara Jordan back to life... |
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yes, the double whammee!
But, of course I'd vote for a black man, woman, white woman, or any combination or race/ethnicity and gender you come up with.
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Orangepeel
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message |
14. sure. but I'd also vote for not restricting gay marriage |
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for removing "in God we trust" from money and for impeaching george bush. Just because I'm skeptical about everyone else, doesn't mean that I really don't want those things.
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Ellen Forradalom
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 11:11 PM by Ellen Forradalom
If anything, we are way overdue for a black and/or female President.
I've already voted for Obama, for Senator. In '72 when I was a kid, I thought Shirley Chisholm was the greatest ever. And I thought Carole Moseley-Braun made a hell of a lot of sense during her run in 2004.
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Josiah1982
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:10 PM
Response to Original message |
16. I wouldn't vote for either one of them |
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in the primary. I think that Dennis Kucinich speaks to me in a clearer voice than Obama or Clinton. But, I'd vote for either one of them come the GE. Race and gender have nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned.
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unpossibles
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:13 PM
Response to Original message |
17. yes, although it would depend on the person obviously |
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I would not vote for Condi, but not for either of those reasons.
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AndyTiedye
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message |
18. You Claim it is Racist to Question Obama's Electability At All |
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That is an improper application of the "racism" card.
I'll vote for him in the general election if he is the Democratic nominee. Same goes for Hillary Clinton or any of the other candidates.
I'll vote for them, but I'm not convinced enough other people will.
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Colobo
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:17 PM
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19. I don't claim such thing. |
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I am trying to bring another perspective into the debate.
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riqster
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:22 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 11:25 PM by riqster
And I'll likely have the chance to prove it, dammit.
On edit-in the general. In the primary, Dk all the way!
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Crunchy Frog
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:23 PM
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21. What a person has between their legs or in their epidermal layer |
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Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 11:24 PM by Crunchy Frog
is of absolutely NO concern to me in deciding whether or not to vote for them.
I plan on voting for whomever the Dem nominee is, (unless Stephen Colbert runs as a 3rd party candidate. :))
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johncoby2
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:24 PM
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CnAnPB
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:28 PM
Response to Original message |
23. as a white 20yo gay male |
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Edited on Mon Nov-26-07 11:30 PM by CnAnPB
My black friends will bring up Obama's race in most every convo we have about politics and they will say it's (his race) a major factor in their decision to vote for him. Same can be said for most of my female buds, they say HRC sex is a major factor in their decision to vote for her.
I will vote for the most electable gay friendly candidate.
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Bluebear
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:30 PM
Response to Original message |
24. Shirley Chisholm, unbought & unbossed. I would have voted for her in a heartbeat. |
troubleinwinter
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
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Which reminds me.... WHY did HC claim several days ago to be the first woman to run for the presidency??? I VOTED for Shirley Chisholm in the 1972 presidential primary.
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1corona4u
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:31 PM
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Spirit of 34
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:32 PM
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PurityOfEssence
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:36 PM
Response to Original message |
27. Smarmy, inflammatory drivel |
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Not only would I vote for a black man or a woman for president, I'd give 'em a few extra breaks just to make the point: it's long past time a non-white or a non-male got the job.
This is thinly disguised prejudice to taint those who have problems with Senator Obama's tactics, policies, affiliations or personality as bigots. It will be effective in scaring off many, which is what's desired here: stifling opposition at all costs.
Jan Schakowsky's one of my favorite legislators, and she could win. Much as I love Barbara Boxer, she's just too far left to pull it off.
Here's a hot one: would you be so resolutely zealous about Senator Obama if he was white? Think about some equivalent courting of extremely religious gay-hating christians, ties to medicine-for-money and some of the sloppy statements about nuclear weapons and Pakistan and ask yourself if he'd still by your guy if he wasn't black. Well?
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CnAnPB
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
sandnsea
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
31. Nukes, Pakistan, confronting the religious right |
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Those are a few of the reasons I support Obama.
The post is in response to one saying Obama can't get elected. Did you post on that thread?
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PurityOfEssence
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Tue Nov-27-07 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #31 |
52. No, I thought that was a muddled thread, so I opted out |
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If it's the thread I think you mean, it was impossible to give a straight answer to it and that seemed like the intention: conflate each person with his/her "type" and then somehow extract a hypothetical about whether the particular "type" could be elected.
This thread is MUCH more than just a response to that one; it's part of a long continuum of insinuation from the thread-starter, and it sparked some sincere revulsion.
In a more clinical setting, if asked the question "would America elect a black man or a female of any race and none in particular at the moment?", I'd certainly say "yes". We've come a long way in the last few decades, and even with the knee-jerk retrograde motion of the reactionaries since 1980, the movement is still forward. As for these two, I think Obama's still got a shot, but Clinton's got SO much baggage and so much animosity from so many directions that the chances are mighty slim.
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Maven
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
Bitwit1234
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:44 PM
Response to Original message |
30. I would, but I truthfully and honestly believe that America won't |
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that's why I say Edwards should be the candidate.
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4nic8em
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:49 PM
Response to Original message |
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As long as their not republic neonuts.
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treestar
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:55 PM
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33. I feel perfectly comfortable voting for them |
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Black, female, whatever.
I picked a white man for now but it is because of his positions on the issues.
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noamnety
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Mon Nov-26-07 11:55 PM
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34. I won't vote for Clinton or Obama |
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but if Cynthia McKinney were running, you'd see me promoting her all over DU. I mean if she were running as a democrat. :)
I prefer to have a black man, or a woman, or better yet a woman of color in the job for a while. I think that's an important step in our history, and I think the country will be a little better when white men aren't holding all the power, but are sharing it equally.
I also think getting out of Iraq now, not some indeterminate number of years from now, is important.
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bemildred
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Tue Nov-27-07 12:07 AM
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35. Heck, I'd even vote for a gay black muslim woman. nt |
CnAnPB
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Tue Nov-27-07 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
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:rofl:
Ok, she isnt 'black'
j/k
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zabet
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Tue Nov-27-07 12:21 AM
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37. Race is irrelevant to me in this matter, |
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especially in a candidate. I expect candidates to rise above making it about race, it is about the people. That said, Obama is not my first pick and it has absolutely nothing to do with his race.
Now, if you are asking people if they would vote for a black man or woman, aren't you boiling it down to a race issue because you think the reason some people do not support him is because of his race?
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WheelWalker
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Tue Nov-27-07 12:37 AM
Response to Original message |
38. Hell, I'd vote for an hermaphrodite ET |
riqster
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Tue Nov-27-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
63. But not a biracial hermaphrodite? |
illinoisprogressive
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Tue Nov-27-07 12:43 AM
Response to Original message |
39. I have voted for both. I don't care about gender or sex, it's the person |
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Edited on Tue Nov-27-07 12:44 AM by illinoisprogressive
I voted for women and african americans.
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IndianaGreen
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Tue Nov-27-07 12:48 AM
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40. Race and gender are irrelevant. How they stand on the Constitution and the war is what matters. |
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Anyone that will keep troops in Iraq through their first term, keep Guantanamo open, continue to deny habeas corpus, keep spying on Americans, and defend torture, will never get my vote or support.
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1corona4u
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
46. Well, Bush just closed any possibility of the troops coming home.... |
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ever. So who ever is the new president will either have to cancel the clandestine "treaty" or honor it... http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2217581,00.htmlYou're going to have to change your stance on that...
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Tactical Progressive
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Tue Nov-27-07 12:56 AM
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41. I'm biased in favor of women and minorities politically |
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Edited on Tue Nov-27-07 01:40 AM by Tactical Progressive
As this country's incredible 220 year history of only white men at the helm is at best simply embarassing, but more honestly it is immoral and unethical. It speaks very badly of us all.
So I'd lower the bar for either, which isn't unfair considering that white men have had it lowered for them from the beginning. The idea that there isn't a woman or a minority in the United States capable of running this country is ludicrous. I can think of about 100 million women, just off the top of my head, that would run this country better than George W. Bush has.
So of you're insinuating that Obama isn't a favorite because of racism, you're barking up the wrong tree, at least with alot of us. Obama gets alot of slack from many of us, I'm sure, just BECAUSE he is a minority and we're long overdue for a minority Executive, as with a woman.
No, the reason is that Obama isn't good enough for the job. Not near good enough. Obama doesn't reach even the lowered bar.
Hillary exceeds the regular bar position by a large margin.
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red2blue
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:06 AM
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I will always support the candidate that I believe to be the best choice for all American's. I would be proud to vote for either(and for those who realize that they are not mutually exclusive) or both. :crazy:
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FrenchieCat
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:17 AM
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43. I feel more than comfortable giving my vote to someone other than some white guy.....cause! |
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Edited on Tue Nov-27-07 01:18 AM by FrenchieCat
I've seen where White men have taken us......and I'm ready to go to another place with one with a different mentality.
Actually, at this time, considering the shit that White men have gotten us in, Being Black and/or woman makes one wayyyy more electable to me.
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AtomicKitten
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:21 AM
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45. It would be spectacular. |
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When push comes to shove, I will be thrilled to vote for the first woman or black president. I don't need to say that I strongly prefer the latter. Pasty-faced white men have had their shot at the helm.
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1corona4u
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
47. Yeah, and about the first time ..... |
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a black person throws that in my face, I'll be going to jail because I will knock their fucking head off. What a bigoted, racist, statement.
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AtomicKitten
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:51 AM
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48. I'm flattered that you are stalking me but it's against the rules. |
1corona4u
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #48 |
49. Don't flatter yourself... |
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I happen to be on both threads BEFORE you were. Perhaps you're stalking me.
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LibDemAlways
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Tue Nov-27-07 01:58 AM
Response to Original message |
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What matters most to me is that the candidate have views that I am in general agreement with.
I don't think, however, that the U.S. is anywhere near as color and gender blind as it should be. If Hillary or Obama is the nominee, we'll find out just how far we've come, or, conversely, still have to go.
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1corona4u
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Tue Nov-27-07 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #50 |
51. That's the truth. n/t. |
cali
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Tue Nov-27-07 03:33 AM
Response to Original message |
54. sure you're accusing people of something- and it ain't pretty |
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I think Obama is the most electable of the top three- and I'll gladly support him for President should he win the nomination. Others don't feel he's as electable- that doesn't mean that they're racists.
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wiley
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Tue Nov-27-07 05:25 AM
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55. I heard the most degrading statement about trusting women today. |
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It blew my mind. I can't even repeat it. I would vote for anyone with good ideas and pragmatic experience at this point.
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MrSlayer
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Tue Nov-27-07 05:30 AM
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56. I don't care what color or gender or how handsome or ugly the candidate is. |
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I don't care if they're personally a dick or a bore or a know-it-all or if I'd like to have a beer with them. I care about issues. I care about whether they're going to solve problems or create more. The superficial means nothing to me. I can say in total honesty that when I opine that America will not vote a woman or a black man in as President I am not projecting any personal prejudice at all. My everyday life experiences tell me what the deal is.
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DFW
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Tue Nov-27-07 05:37 AM
Response to Original message |
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Neither is a factor for me in the slightest.
Here in Europe, there have been female heads of state/government in Germany, Ireland, Norway, Finland, and Great Britain, and I probably have left one or two out in my haste. All of those countries are still standing, last I looked. The only reason there hasn't been an African president yet is, well, most Europeans are European (DUH!).
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hayu_lol
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Tue Nov-27-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #57 |
58. I was really glad to see a few people use the examples of good candidates... |
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when they mentioned Barbara Jordan and Shirley Chisholm. Shirley was a real fighter--Cynthia McKinney is also a real fighter. Barbara was one of the greatest speakers of the last century.
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ClarkUSA
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Tue Nov-27-07 07:15 AM
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59. I'm looking forward to it. |
LWolf
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Tue Nov-27-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message |
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I would have voted for Barbara Jordan in a heartbeat.
I have often suggested Barbara Lee or Maxine Waters as potential vps. Of course, those suggestions don't get much respect, but those are another 2 fine women that have my support.
Even more shocking for DUers, I LIKE Cynthia McKinney and may still cast a vote for her.
In '04, my #2 and #3 during the primaries were Moseley Braun and Sharpton.
During the 80s and 90s, before he retired, I regularly helped elect a black man to my local school board, in a conservative red area.
Color and gender are not factors that decide my vote. When people ask me to list potential vice president picks, or other candidate choices, I will generally choose more women and people of color when I make suggestions, because we are currently out of balance.
My final choices, though, are always going to be based on issues and record.
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rasputin1952
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Tue Nov-27-07 08:27 AM
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61. The way I look at it, race and gender have nothing to do with |
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the situation. All that matters is whether the individual is qualified and will do the best he/she can for the nation.
Qualified, to me, means intelligence, compassion, passion, knowledge and some wisdom. (Of course there are Constitutional qualifications as well, Citizenship & age...etc).
White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Amer-Indian, male, female...should make no difference. The only thing that should matter, is what will the individual do for the betterment of the nation as a whole, seeking equality, justice and having the vision to take on problems before they become out of control.
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racaulk
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Tue Nov-27-07 08:56 AM
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62. Race and gender are irrelevant to me. |
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Someone's race or gender will not preclude that person from being a good, strong leader of our country. If Obama or Clinton get the nomination, I will gladly vote for either one in the general election.
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leaninglib
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Tue Nov-27-07 06:22 PM
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64. The real question is do you follow people or do you follow ideas? |
ihavenobias
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Tue Nov-27-07 06:24 PM
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65. No, The *Real* Question Is |
Lydia Leftcoast
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Tue Nov-27-07 06:44 PM
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66. Yes, but I'd rather vote for John Conyers or one of the many brave |
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Edited on Tue Nov-27-07 06:45 PM by Lydia Leftcoast
African-American women in Congress than for Barack Obama.
NOTE: I DID vote for Jesse Jackson in the 1988 Oregon primary, as did 39% of other Oregon Democrats.
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K Gardner
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Tue Nov-27-07 06:58 PM
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68. Gag alert: Did anyone just see the CBS Nightly News? |
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I think it was CBS.. I was channel surfing.. when they showed some young white male (sounded like southern accent) saying: "Well, I just wouldn't vote for... ::long pause::: a colored man." My jaw dropped. Yeah, you know they're out there, but jesushchrist... why showcase bigotry on the Nightly Fucking News???
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DutchLiberal
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Tue Nov-27-07 07:08 PM
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69. I would vote for a black man or a woman. I just wouldn't vote for Obama and HRC. |
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I voted for a woman in Dutch elections for parliament last year, and I would do it again. The only thing that counts is: does he/she represent the people's best interests?
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DemBones DemBones
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Tue Nov-27-07 07:14 PM
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70. Sure, I'd vote for a black person or for a woman, |
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though I'm not excited about Obama or Clinton. It's their policies that I dislike, not their skin color or sex.
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polichick
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Tue Nov-27-07 07:15 PM
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71. Yes, I would vote for a black man or a woman... |
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Edited on Tue Nov-27-07 07:17 PM by polichick
I'd vote for a pink and purple polka-dotted transgendered candidate ~ but unfortunately there's still a shitload of white assholes in our country who won't vote for either a black man or a woman. That worries me a little.
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beaconess
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Tue Nov-27-07 09:23 PM
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72. But there are many more people who would - |
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it's our job to get them out to vote and see to it that they vote in much larger numbers than the bigots do.
It can be done.
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Thu May 02nd 2024, 05:40 AM
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