UPDATE: Hostage taker cited Clinton campaign ad

[bunnies]

Lee Eisenberg cited Clinton campaign ad

ABC News has learned that Leeland Eisenberg -- the man accused of holding hostages at Hillary Clinton's Rochester, New Hampshire campaign office for six hours on Friday -- cited one of Clinton's campaign commercials when he entered the office and claimed to have a pipe bomb strapped to his chest.

According to sources inside the Clinton campaign, Eisenberg was complaining about insurance issues and mentioned a recent campaign ad widely seen by New Hampshire voters.

link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/01/lee-eisenberg-cited-clint_n_74941.html


Clinton Hostage-Taker Allegedly Cited Her Campaign Ad

"She helped that guy, she can help me," Eisenberg allegedly told Clinton campaign staffers, referring to Joe Ward, a Clinton supporter featured in the ad. The intruder then demanded that Sen. Clinton talk with him. On the advice of law enforcement officials, the senator never did.

(snip)

In the testimonial ad, which features somber piano music, Ward intones: "Let me tell you a little story. My son Joel had a terrible illness. He needed a bone marrow transplant that our insurance wouldn't cover and we couldn't afford. We called Sen. Clinton and asked for help. Her office called the next day, letting us know that the hospital was going to absorb the cost of the transplant. Now her opponents are saying that Hillary can't be trusted? I trusted this woman to save my son's life, and she did."

link: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/12/clinton-hostage.html


As I said. So for all those who demanded it... heres your proof. Now... do you STILL think it'd be wise to continue running it?

[TwilightZone]

1. Oh, my goodness -- a politician running an ad showing that she helped someone.

Oh, the humanity! What a precedent!

[eleny]

2. It's time for major health reform despite the lousy, filthy, stingy Republicans

That's what I think it's time for.

[maddiejoan]

3. It's Hillary's Fault!

What was she thinking wearing a skirt that short!?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. If She Didn't Save That Stinkin Kid's Life This Would Have Never Happened In The First Place

SARCASM

[BeyondGeography]

8. Funny

Maybe keep running the ad with the tag line that Little Joel got results because his father didn't threaten to kill anyone first?

[rufus dog]

5. Not sure I can make the connection

I understand he saw the ad (I haven't seen it) and was looking for help. Obviously the guy needs help along with many others, but how does Hillary running an ad highlighting the issue make the ad responsible?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. The Same Way Looking At Playboy Makes You Want To Go Out And Rape Someone I Guess

DSB

[bunnies]

10. Are you kidding me?

The ad clearly gives the impression that she can be called on for personal favors. Have a health care crisis? Call Hillary! Your analogy is ridiculous.

[rufus dog]

18. Got it

So the ad says Hillary can help with a crisis. Fair enough, Hillary should have each campaign office keep a copy of mental health providers in the area, that is the best she can do in a micro level currently. It doesn't make the Ad the cause of mental health. (Even though she drives me crazy sometimes)

[bunnies]

31. :)

I agree that the ad is not the cause of this guys breakdown. Just that its the thing that led him to her office. Despite some of the knee-jerk reactions... Im not blaming this on Hillary herself at all. :hi:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

11. Well,

:spray:

after recovering composure...

:toast: MKJ

[rufus dog]

14. Not that I agree

That looking at playboy could lead to rape, but I think this link is even weaker. I am far from a Hillary supporter but still believe she wants to improve health care coverage and would go as far to say it is a passionate issue of hers. If I understand correctly she has an ad that focuses on mental health. So how does her attempting to do something good create the effect of something bad. If she never had brought up an issue and never attempted to improve the situation, or created an ad after the fact purely for political purposes I would get it. In this case I just don't fucking get it!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. It's Not A Mental Health Ad Even

It was an ad where a private insurer denied a man's dying son coverage and Hillary got an override...

[eleny]

7. It didn't take long for Sean Hannity talking points to hit

[bunnies]

13. The man says he went there because of the ad.

And you're saying this is a talking point? Right. I must be a republican troll for pointing out cause and effect. What crap.

[eleny]

26. It's the spin you put on it not what the man said

It's your inferring that the ad should not be played.

If there's any crap being flung around here it's your original post.

Btw, Clinton is not my candidate in the primaries.

[bunnies]

32. Ok. Well... If you think its smart for Clinton to keep playing the ad

associated with this guy holding hostages at her office then you are entitled to your opinion... but it differs from mine.

[FormerDittoHead]

23. I could just hear it - OMG! Hillary is going to put us ALL in danger! n/t

[eleny]

29. Believe it

I don't watch the program but expect him to be in overdrive by Monday.

[bunnies]

9. "She helped that guy, she can help me"

He went there as a result of the ad.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. David Berkowitz Killed Six People And Wounded Seven Others Because He Said His Neigbor's Dog Told

Him To Do So....

Should we outlaw dogs?

[bunnies]

15. Try a reasoned argument.

Youre being silly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. The Nexus Between The Stimulus And Response Is The Same As The One You Suggested

The crimes had terrorized New York for a year, and earned publicity due to Berkowitz's claim that a neighbor's dog was possessed by a demon that commanded Berkowitz to kill.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Berkowitz


The point is we don't know what sets off an emotionally disturbed individual...

[bunnies]

27. In this case however, it seems that we do...

at least in part. Dont get me wrong DSB... Im not saying that the ad made him want to hold hostages. Maybe I havent been clear on that in my previous posts. All Im saying is that the ad is the thing that brought him to the Clinton campaign office, as it led him to believe that she could help. As someone with a chronic condition and no health insurance... I joked with hubby about calling her for help the first time we saw the ad. So I can see how someone who is a little less stable might be given some false sense of hope. I do not believe the incident is Hillarys fault.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

16. It seems there may be one or two extenuating circumstances.

Equation:

MH issues= m

financial problems= m x m

domestic problems=(m x m) + d

ad= a

hostage situation = hs

x = catalyst

So, you propose a= hs

I propose (m x m) + d + x + a = hs


MKJ

[rufus dog]

20. I think every thing other than "a"

Should be squared or cubed, or maybe it should be .0000001a.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

25. .0000001a, ROFL!

I don't know how to keyboard square or cube, you're right, that's exactly how it should have been put together. But what a great solution!

:rofl: :toast:

MKJ

[bunnies]

21. I agree with you.

I dont think the ad is 'the' thing that caused it by any means. Just that it gave a mentally unstable man reason to think she would help him. Many people (obviously) choose to ignore the fact the ad *does* give the impression that she will help in health care crisis. If she did it for one, why wouldnt she do it for another?

[rufus dog]

28. Come on Bunny

So beer ads show guys with hot women hanging all over them. I have had my share of beer but far from my share of women hanging all over me. It isn't fair to criticize her for an accurate ad because someone was mentally unstable.

A lot of people need help, and I believe that she truly understands and believes a lot of people need help. That is a differentiator for her, why can't she promote it?

[bunnies]

35. Please show me where I critized Hillary.

I havent. Not once. I just dont think its smart to be playing an ad associated with this incident. I dont know. I guess lots of people think it wont matter, so maybe it wont. Im quite sure that people in NH will associate the two... but I maybe thats not really important?

If she wants to promote it, its up to her & her campaign. As far as Im concerned, shes more than welcome to.

[rufus dog]

37. Could be my mistake

I apologize if I misunderstood the intent. Are you a Hillary supporter concerned that the ad and the situation could be linked and hurt her?

[bunnies]

41. Im not an anyone supporter as of yet...

and Ill admit, I'm not her biggest fan. But she does have many qualities I admire. I'm pretty critical of Hillary, but I can clearly see why she has so many admirers.

I just think it would be better for everyone if she pull the ad due to its association. I dont know. Maybe Im to sensitive because it happened 5 minutes from me. Its possible.

[rufus dog]

43. Got it - a bit of perpective always helps

I still believe she should continue to use the ad. She is correct and if some right wing dickhead like Hannity tries to make an fake point then she and her team should clearly state the position. Reagan slashed the budget for mental health, Bush can't seem to find money to take care of vets, so blaming Hillary for an ad is a joke.

[bunnies]

44. Youre right.

One of these days Im going to learn that people can't read my thoughts. And that the current climate leads people to automatically expect bashing. I never meant to imply that any part of this was Hillarys fault or that her campaign was responsible for what happened. Thats absurd. My only points have been 1. The ad is the reason this guy went to her office and 2. It would probably be smart if she stopped running it. Maybe it wont even have an effect on people when seeing the ad. Obviously I dont know... Im just giving my opinion & I definitely respect yours.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

45. Well, after a quick search.

In general:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3775020#3775065

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3776165#3776223


Quite a bit of criticism of her health plan here: (beginning of subthread)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3768305#3768411

A criticism of her spouse:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3768037#3768081

And, specifically regarding the ad:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3779262

Now, that's just a quick search, mind you. You may have some other posts lauding her brilliance, but you asked for examples of criticism.

You know, it's fine if you don't agree with her, but to come here and immediately post that you insist she pull her ad and then ask for proof that you've criticized her...:shrug:



MKJ

[bunnies]

49. oh please.

I already told you that I was very critical of Hillary. Didnt I? There is no Hillary bashing there. Not by a long shot. And yes... I thought she should remove the ad then EXACTLY as I think she should remove it now. There is no difference in my reasoning or my position.

[rufus dog]

52. You are fine with me

I took it as a bash at Hillary, you see it as a safety issue for her campaign staff.

:pals:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

53. You asked for examples of criticism, I provided them.

You're welcome. :toast: MKJ

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

30. How can you agree with me, then insist she pull the ad?

Although, I see you incorporated "m" into your equation, so at least you're now at a + m (y) = hs

All that needs done is solve for y, and you're good.

:-)

MKJ

[bunnies]

36. Do YOU think its smart to play the ad associated with this incident? nt

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

54. Very cool that you ask me what I think.

My thoughts:

I think she'll be criticized by you no matter what she does. You like to mix it up, that's good, but it's hard to tell whether you've come here to only criticize a single candidate, which you've done pretty consistently, or to actually participate in the marketplace of ideas that is our constitutional government.

One thing I'll say, you've had a dramatic entrance here. :-) MKJ

[bunnies]

58. hmph.

I do like to mix it up MKJ... I'll give you that much. But I havent come here just to criticize Hillary. I could write a long OP explaining my criticisms of every candidate. It would take about 5 minutes and make me a whole lot of enemies.

But I assure you... I will support whoever gets the Democratic nomination.

I'll take my bow now. :)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

60. Do you have anything non critical to say about any of the candidates?

Or, even, heaven forfend, positive?

Mix it up is one thing. Here to trash all Dems, is another.

Just asking, some come here just to use the primary process as a tool to attack every Democratic candidate and congress member.

Using spamming OP's, for example.

:hi:

MKJ

Oops, didn't mean to say your.

[bunnies]

62. I have something non critical to say about every candidate...

thats why Im undecided. If it seems like Im trashing every candidate its only because I use DU to work through negative impressions.

It would not have occurred to me that one would view my OPs as spamming. Especially considering some posts Ive seen in my four years of reading this board.

Good to be informed however of the impression I make. I'm sure I'll think twice before I post another OP on this board.

I respect your perspective and appreciate the discussion.

:hi:
b~

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

64. I really didn't mean to post it as "your". I came back and read it and felt

badly that I'd categorized that way.

You didn't spam, I was recently on another thread on which the poster had been spamming and posted this without proof reading.

I should also take into consideration that you're there in NH, in the thick of things, while I'm not.

So, welcome again, and keep on keeping on. :toast: MKJ

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

40. She should quietly pull the ad, but only as a pure PR matter

There's nothing wrong with the ad, of course, and nothing wrong with running it.

But she has plenty of ads. Why court controversy, even inane ginned-up controversy?

Voters are not always sensible. I can imagine someone thinking the ad is now in poor tastes, and what the heck? Politics is largely about appealing to irrational people.

[bunnies]

42. Thank You!!!

I never said or meant that the ad was in poor taste. Just that it'd be better if they didnt play it anymore... at least in NH... due to the association.

[cuke]

22. Breaking Clues: Mr Eisenberg is mentally ill

and You don't need a rational reason to hold a campaign office hostage with a bomb

[shaniqua6392]

24. This post is a bit far reaching being critical of Sen. Clinton.

The care for mentally ill in America is horrific. Mental hospitals have been closed. Millions without health care. The Bush Administration slashing funds to states for mental health care. On an on it goes. This poor guy was desperate and he thought she could help. If he would have called the office and asked for help, she probably would have given it to him. But, being mentally ill, this was the route he chose. This is not Sen. Clinton's fault at all whatsoever. Your argument against her is biased and has no basis in fact. I think it is wise for her to continue running the ad and wise to continue to help people if she can.

[bunnies]

38. Please show me where I said this was Hillarys fault.

Or where I argued against her.
Thanks.

[shaniqua6392]

66. Here you go......

"As I said. So for all those who demanded it... heres your proof. Now... do you STILL think it'd be wise to continue running it?" I just do not think she is responsible for a mentally ill man taking an ad he saw on t.v. so literal that he thought she could help. There are many things we may criticize her for but this is not one of them in my opinion.

[bunnies]

68. saying she shouldnt run the ad is criticizing her?

I dont see it that way. So what if NH voters might see the ad and think of the incident. Fuck 'em.

[NMMNG]

33. Better yet, let's lock up all mentallly ill people.

That will prevent anything like this from happening ever again. :sarcasm:

[Skip Intro]

34. you gotta be kidding -

:eyes:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

39. Nope, Sen Clinton must not remind anyone of anything ever, per the OP.

Shh, don't speak.

MKJ

[Evergreen Emerald]

46. I am laughing so hard

mostly because of the sustained argument in favor of removing the ad! This is the funniest post I have read in a long time.

I think I finally get what jumped the shark means.

[bunnies]

56. The sustained argument for removing the ad

is that its dumb to continue to play a commercial that is associated with this incident. If you dont care that NH voters could associate the two... sobeit.

[Evergreen Emerald]

57. seriously, stop

you are killing me with that! Great dead-pan! I would almost believe you if it weren't so so so silly!

[bunnies]

59. ummm...

ok. :shrug:

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

61. Just because she says it's dumb, doesn't mean that she thinks anyone is actually dumb.

It's just that it's dumb.

You know.

:-)

MKJ

[incapsulated]

47. The probability that another mentally ill person....

Would hear the tv speaking to them and take a garden variety campaign ad as motivation to take hostages somewhere is remote to non-existent.

However, who gives a shit anyway?

I mean if you are implying that this ad somehow is a big red flag for the severely mentally ill I don't know what to tell you. People this ill hallucinate and hear voices, it has nothing to do with that particular ad. I know this from personal experience in my own family. Nothing short of serious treatment is going to help, censoring tv for the mentally ill means no television at ALL.

[bunnies]

63. All I ever said was that the ad was the reason he went to her

campaign office. And I think it would be wise NOT to make NH voters think of this incident every time the ad plays. Maybe you would like to explain to me why you think its a good idea to continue to play this ad here. Nobody else has.

[incapsulated]

65. It's up to her campaign

Why do you care, really?

[ClarkUSA]

48. You called it correctly, bunnies: Eisenberg took Clinton's ad at its word and wanted her to help him

At least now Eisenberg is finally getting the help he so desperately wanted for himself. As for the ad, now every time someone sees it in NH, they'll associate it
with Mr. Eisenberg and his actions in Rochester. It will interesting to see whether the ad is pulled or not.

[Lord Helmet]

50. this is a preview of what to expect from another Clinton presidency

she is a lightening rod for hate and chaos

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

55. Whew, it she's a lightening rod, them we'd better nominate

whom?

MKJ

[goodgd_yall]

51. How pathetic

It's sad. The poor man needs help.

[d_b]

67. That man has some serious issues n/t