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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:28 PM
Original message
talk to me about alliances on the left.
One of the weaknesses on the left is that we don't support each other much across issues - labor for pro-choice, environmentalists for labor, anti-war for environmentalists, etc. It allows conservatives to divide and conquer.

What are some of the obstacles to organizing across issue lines, and how can we address them?

(Headed to dinner - back in a bit.)
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, we can stop reinventing the wheel every time an issue pops up.
Lets use PFAW, MoveOn and other organizations that cover a spectrum of issues.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. not sure I follow.
Can you give me an example of what you mean?
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. .
:applause:

I've been saying this (to crickets) for YEARS!

signed,

Dirtyhippiecommiepinkobum who remembers when we on the "left" DID support each other... to great results!
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. it's what we need to do.
I'm tired of seeing us get "wedged".
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Empathy. As simple as that.
How the hell do we expect the "great unwashed" to care about our issues, when we don't care about the issues of other liberals?

Speaking of one in poverty, I'm ASHAMED of liberals for ignoring so many of us, and cynically dismissing our votes!!!!

BASTA!
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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm not a member of any organized political party,
I'm a Democrat!

by Will Rogers
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think that
it has to start at the grass-roots level. Groups at the community level. It takes a lot of work to keep those alliances strong when each group is not involved, kind of like an engine when all the cylinders aren't firing.

The next step is to take it up the next step. We have small groups in several towns and cities, in an area covering four upstate NY counties, which tend to only coordinate during times of crisis. The amount of time, travel, and expense needed to keep things going in an orgaized, well-tuned way creates difficulties. Not doing it creates greater long-term difficulties.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. any thoughts on how to overcome those problems?
I think you're spot-on with where it has to start - I'm just not sure how to overcome the difficulties, what to offer or support in the way of organizational tools.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Interesting timing ......
one of my good friends had called to discuss this same topic this evening. She had been working with a group in the Binghamton, NY area, taking up petitions on impeachment. She voiced a few concerns, such as too few people being asked to do too much of the work; the degree of unfocused anger found among the general public; and the number of people in low-income neighborhoods who say, "I agree with what you are saying, but this is not a safe time to speak out in America."

I know that you and other DUers know these are the common concerns in grass roots work. Even that sense of it not being safe to speak up is similar to what organizers encountered in the early days of the civil rights movement, and in the labor movement before that.

In my experience, it was helpful to be able to coordinate with the progressive student groups at the area colleges and universities. They often can provide the progressive coalitions with a lot of energy and will invest lots of hours of hard work. And as an old man, I'm always encouraged at the younger generation's ability to see things in new and different ways. However, students often return home for the summer, and are also in school for a few years, then are gone. We do not have the employment options in rural uptate NY to keep our educated young people in the numbers we need.

Just as on the national level, we often experience that people will do more, give more, and be willing to help more when there is some crisis. When my nephew was attacked by a racist hate gang, we had people from Albany to Ithaca involved in demanding justice. At first, local people were curious about what it meant. Getting more than 100 black and brown folks together in a small town can make some town-folk anxious. But when that 100+ people behave in a dignified, organized manner, and when they know the law, pretty soon regional politicians want to chat. So we have to be able to make use of the tensions that get people's attention, that can be used to organize those who do not always appear at public events, and translate that into keeping the lines of communication with regional politicians open.

If 100 potential votes gets a politician's attention, than 200 gets more. However, in progressive grass roots coalition work, it is not possible for me to think everyone will be as loyal a democrat as I am. Out of that 100 progressives, there are going to be a lot of loyal greens, and a lot of loyal democratic-socialists, and a lot of people who have made an intelligent decision to not be part of any political party. If I want them to respect me, I have to have equal respect for them. If I want their help and support on my projects, then I must be willing to help and support them on their's.

I do not mean to ramble .... Two more quick things. First, people need to have an understanding of how their local media works. That includes newspapers, tv, and radio. We need to know what reporters look for, and what editors and station managers want. As odd as it may sound, I studied how Pat Buchanan used and manipulated the media in the Nixon era. LTTE campaigns, etc. Also, learning how to speak to a tv reporter, and how to communicate your message is very important.

Finally, web sites and blogs are great, but it is good to still have "indie" newspapers and newsletters that can be handed out.

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I don't think you're rambling at all.
Excellent points about the use of tensions and studying Buchanan's use of the media (which doesn't strike me as an odd thing to do at all). And yes, I think that while any organization will have to be plugged into the established party structure in some way, the overall gist needs to be extra-party - progressive, not Democratic per se.

I think the issue of fear for personal safety is a poisonous one - not that I blame anyone for being afraid to speak out, but I don't think the range of the reality matches the range of the concern. Maybe I'm wrong, and I certainly haven't had the experience that your nephew has, but I say that as an open liberal in semi-rural Georgia.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. The neighborhood thing
didn't surprise me, and I think it can be dealt with by considering how we attempt to communicate with people. In the early civil rights era, there were times when sending college students into a rural area worked, and times it didn't. Sometimes you had to be selective, and approach the area's unofficial leaders. It might be a church deacon, or a school teacher, or it might be a janitor.

In those days, you pointed out that they already lived in a dangerous set of circumstances. The same holds true today. Part of coalition building is helping to educate people so that they appreciate what is actually threatening the quality of life in their neighborhood/community, and what conditions pose the greatest threats.

(After my nephew was attacked, we knew the local justice system would not react the same when 15 white men assault a black teen, than if 15 black men attacked a white teen. I do not say that in a bitter manner -- it's just a fact. So we focused in large part on "public education." That meant using the media to show the violent nature of the crime; the threat the hate gang posed to the area; and how the legal system was not able to deal in a just manner. In one hearing, the local justice of the peace heard testimony that one of the gang said, "You niggers have to expect to be treated rough around here" on the night of the attack; the justice of the peace said -- in open court -- that he wasn't sure if that showed racism, or if the guy was "just drunk." He sentenced one of the gang leaders, who punched an kicked my unconscious nephew over a dozen times as he lay on the ground, to a $50 fine. As horrible as that was for my family to accept, we recognized that it helped the public understand that our society still has very real problems with issues of race.)
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. tolerance and/or acceptance that people see the world in many different ways
would be a good place to start, I think.

It seems like we are moving ever closer to a one-size-fits-all existence that simply isn't designed for humanity.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. Those Alliances Were Torn Asunder by Bigotry, the Religious Wrong, & Wingnut Propaganda
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 08:24 PM by AndyTiedye
labor for pro-choice,


Much of labor is anti-choice, because their church told them they have to be.

environmentalists for labor,


Labor has been fed a non-stop barrage of propaganda saying that protecting the environment costs jobs.

Seems obvious that it would create a lot more jobs, but how do we get that message out?

anti-war for environmentalists


Mostly on the same page already. We know that there wouldn't be any Iraq war if it wasn't for oil.
Conservation is necessary to save the planet, as well as to prevent more such wars.
I don't know of any environmentalists who support the war.
I don't know of any anti-war people (except the Ron Paul contingent) who are not concerned about the environment.

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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. well yeah.
There is at least the perception of a special divide between workers and "limo liberal" concerns about choice, the environment, etc which feeds the reality - that's why I juxtaposed those in particular. Bear in mind, though, that I really mean these as examples. Every issue community on the left needs to be actively engaged with every other. It may be that we can bring more folks in "blue-collar" situations around to greater support for, say, the GBLT community by that and other communities showing up for labor functions, supporting strikers, etc first.
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