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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 07:42 AM
Original message
Hillary's slams on Obama's voting record - Exposed as bogus
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 07:42 AM by jefferson_dem
Hillary slams Obama 'present' votes on abortion, gun laws

December 4, 2007
BY DAVE MCKINNEY Sun-Times Springfield Bureau Chief
White House hopeful Hillary Clinton sharpened her attacks on Democratic rival Barack Obama on Monday, criticizing him for failing to vote yes or no on a series of abortion and gun-control measures when he was in the Illinois Senate.

<SNIP>

One of Obama's "present" votes was on 1999 legislation that would have required teens 15 and older to be tried as adults for firing weapons on or near school grounds. He was among five African-American senators voting present.

"I'm for getting guns off the streets, but I'm not for treating these juveniles as adults," said state Sen. Rickey Hendon (D-Chicago), who voted "present" with Obama.

On the abortion bills, legislators who supported women's rights to the procedure were encouraged to vote "present" on bills that would have required parental notice before minors could obtain abortions and that would have barred what abortion foes call "partial-birth" abortions, a leading abortion-rights advocate said. The goal was to entice moderate Republicans and Democrats to also vote present, helping to defeat the bills.

"The poor guy is getting all this heat for a strategy we, the pro-choice community, did," said Pam Sutherland, president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/679446,CST-NWS-obama04.article
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. nice try
Casting 'bama as a man without the courage of his convictions and a Legislator with his finger in the wind, afraid of the political consequences and looking to politically "cover" his ass? I just don't know -- with his habit of dodging important votes in his still fledgling US Senate career -- if this is necessarily the direction you want to be going with this.

Oh, and I especially love how he underestimates his own Constituents by trusting they won't know what a "present" vote means. Way to go, 'bama!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/obama-abortion-.html

"He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,'" said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

"What it did," she continued, "was give cover to moderate Democrats who wanted to vote with us but were afraid to do so" because of how their votes would be used against them electorally. "A 'present' vote would protect them. Your senator voted 'present.' Most of the electorate is not going to know what that means."==
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Obama Abortion Dodges Blessed by Planned Parenthood
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 08:17 AM by jefferson_dem
Seems you conveniently neglected to offer the title -- "Obama Abortion Dodges Blessed by Planned Parenthood"

'bama? Respect, son, respect.

For a Hillary supporter to criticize another candidate for not having convictions or for "sticking his finger in the wind" is beyond laughable.

How's that "principled" support for K/L Amendment working out for her?
And another stroke of "conviction" on a most-pressing issue -- http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/news/statements/details.cfm?id=240603
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. she voted "yes"
and didn't hide under the covers trembling with fear trying to cover her ass. She was in DC doing her job. Unlike 'bama -- sorry, no respect for political cowards here -- she did what she believed was the right thing -- a stand she understood many would disagree with (which I do, by the way) --, voted and took the consequences.

When Hillary starts voting "present" or misses important votes (S-CHIPP anyone? the measure to provide 26 weeks of leave for family members who need to care for an injured serviceman or woman?) and tries to weasel out by saying she's sick, no, wait, she's campaigning, yeah, that's right, campaigning, we can start talking about her seeking the Political Cover of Cowards, raised to an art form by 'bama himself.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Should I start calling her 'illary?
I haven't called her a name, not even once, but keep it up. It's getting tempting to join the no respect crowd. I will think it over and see if I have the stomach for it or the ill manners.
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. no bad manners here
you personally may not call her any names, but there have been quite a few floating around from the Obama (see? I can respect him if I want!) crowd for awhile. And I'm sure he's been called worse. But you think 'bama is harsh? Don't quite get that.

Perhaps Oh, Anointed One of the Shining Halo and Flowing White Robe, Healer of All and Blessed Master of Peace is better? :evilgrin:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Just trying a new tack
I wondered how a short, mild rebuke would go in regard to mild name-calling. I won't do it if you won't do it kind of thing. A tiny experiment while drinking my coffee. I'm tired of wasting time pointing out how there are nasty sonsofbitches in all camps who stoop as low as it comes and how disgusting I find the behavior. But if you personally are comfortable calling Democratic candidates' names, carry on with your bad self. :hi:
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. I say "Go for it, WesDem"
Nothing will raise your credibility like engaging in childish name calling

:sarcasm:
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. I wasn't aware my credibility was low
Thank you for letting me know even not name calling is something for sarcasm. Do you ever get tired of being nasty? I've wondered.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. I wasn't aware you did any name calling
:wtf: are they doin suggesting you were calling names when a simple reading of your post shows the fallacy of that claim?

Desperate day for many around here today. Wish I could stay and watch all day.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. "Obama's voting record - exposed as bogus"
At last an accurate OP subject line from ObamaNation!
"Present." ~ Barack Obama
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. best line of the night goes to:
"A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

So, how's that Politics of Hope and Change thing working for you, guy?
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. "So, how's that Politics of Hope and Change thing working for you, guy?"
Have you read the article, or are you refusing to understand it?
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
4. A favorable story from the often hostile Sun-Times
Tells you they think Silly's attack line on this is bogus, too.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. that`s the way the game of politics is played
that`s reality and there`s nothing going to change it. politics is`t a game for the pure at heart
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. Most legislation on wedge issues is crap.
And a vote of "present" is like voting "bullshit".

These bills usually don't pass - the authors know it. They are designed to use as political ammo in the future - and shift moderate Republicans (and Dems) farther to the right, out of fear of what usually happens soon after: The sponsors of the bills are ready to smear, distort, and get voters all worked up on election day. "Obama's pro-gun! Obama's an abortionist!"

Assuming this stuff doesn't pass anyways - Good for Obama, he shouldn't have to risk his reputation by voicing a vote on every piece of shit that comes to the table.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Excellent post.
Thanks.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. I love it - "voting present is a polite way to vote Bullshit!" nt
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
7. another shining example of hillary`s guru penn
making her look silly. she needs a reality check and someone to explain to her how state government works since she skipped over state government 101. no wonder gore fired penn
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
36. Getting so bad, I am wondering if Morris is paying Penn more than HRC is
Sure seems to be messing up her inevitability.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. More on Penn ( As CEO of firm that represents Union-busters, Blackwater & ...
"In '06, with Penn at the helm, the company gave 57% of Campaign Contrib to GOP"



Polling Czar



After the 1994 election, Democrats had just lost both houses of Congress, and President Clinton was floundering in the polls. At the urging of his wife, he turned to Dick Morris, a friend from their time in Arkansas. Morris brought in two pollsters from New York, Doug Schoen and his partner, Mark Penn, a portly, combative workaholic. Morris decided what to poll and Penn polled it. They immediately pushed Clinton to the right, enacting the now-infamous strategy of "triangulation," which co-opted Republican policies like welfare reform and tax cuts and emphasized small-bore issues that supposedly cut across the ideological divide. "They were the ones who said, 'Make the '96 election about nothing except V-chips and school uniforms,'" says a former adviser to Bill. When Morris got caught with a call girl, Penn became the most important adviser in Clinton's second term. "In a White House where polling is virtually a religion," the Washington Post reported in 1996, "Penn is the high priest."

Penn, who had previously worked in the business world for companies like Texaco and Eli Lilly, brought his corporate ideology to the White House. After moving to Washington he aggressively expanded his polling firm, Penn, Schoen & Berland (PSB). It was said that Penn was the only person who could get Bill Clinton and Bill Gates on the same line. Penn's largest client was Microsoft, and he saw no contradiction between working for both the plaintiff and the defense in what was at the time the country's largest antitrust case. A variety of controversial clients enlisted PSB. The firm defended Procter & Gamble's Olestra from charges that the food additive caused anal leakage, blamed Texaco's bankruptcy on greedy jurors and market-tested genetically modified foods for Monsanto. PSB introduced to consulting the concept of "inoculation": shielding corporations from scandal through clever advertising and marketing.

In 2000 Penn became the chief architect of Hillary's Senate victory in New York, persuading her, in a rerun of '96, to eschew big themes and relentlessly focus on poll-tested pothole politics, such as suburban transit lines and dairy farming upstate. Following that election, Penn became a very rich man--and an even more valued commodity in the business world (Hillary paid him $1 million for her re-election campaign in '06 and $277,000 in the first quarter of this year). The massive PR empire WPP Group acquired Penn's polling firm for an undisclosed sum in 2001 and four years later named him worldwide CEO of one of its most prized properties, the PR firm Burson-Marsteller (B-M). A key player in the decision to hire Penn was Howard Paster, President Clinton's chief lobbyist to Capitol Hill and an influential presence inside WPP. "Clients of stature come to Mark constantly for counsel," says Paster, who informally advises Hillary, explaining the hire. The press release announcing Penn's promotion noted his work "developing and implementing deregulation informational programs for the electric utilities industry and in the financial services sector." The release blithely ignored how utility deregulation contributed to the California electricity crisis manipulated by Enron and the blackout of 2003, which darkened much of the Northeast and upper Midwest.

Burson-Marsteller is hardly a natural fit for a prominent Democrat. The firm has represented everyone from the Argentine military junta to Union Carbide after the 1984 Bhopal disaster in India, in which thousands were killed when toxic fumes were released by one of its plants, to Royal Dutch Shell, which has been accused of colluding with the Nigerian government in committing major human rights violations. B-M pioneered the use of pseudo-grassroots front groups, known as "astroturfing," to wage stealth corporate attacks against environmental and consumer groups. It set up the National Smokers Alliance on behalf of Philip Morris to fight tobacco regulation in the early 1990s. Its current clients include major players in the finance, pharmaceutical and energy industries. In 2006, with Penn at the helm, the company gave 57 percent of its campaign contributions to Republican candidates.

-snip
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/berman


Isn't it Time for Mark Penn to Leave Burson-Marsteller?
Posted November 12, 2007 | 11:18 AM (EST)


My colleague at The Nation, Ari Berman, has done more than any journalist to shine some light on how pollster-strategist Mark Penn, head honcho at PR giant Burson-Marsteller, and perhaps the most important figure in Hillary Clinton's campaign, poses a real dilemma for the candidate. Penn heads a firm that has represented everyone from union busters to big tobacco, and more recently Blackwater. (According to a Marsteller spokesperson, it was a subsidiary, BKSH & Associates, run by GOP operative Charlie Black, which helped Erik Prince prepare for congressional hearings after his employees killed civilians in Iraq).It would seem difficult to find a more controversial client than Blackwater but Penn's firm has just been retained by Spin Master.

Who is Spin Master? It turns out that Spin Master distributes Aqua Dots, a toy that was recalled last week because it contains a glue ingredient that when ingested is broken down by the body to make GHB, the "date rape" drug, which can cause unconsciousness and even death. (The Consumer Product Safety Commission says the number of children sickened by Aqua Dots has risen from two to nine in the past week.)

Penn has repeatedly stated that he has no direct contact with controversial clients like Blackwater or unionbusters. But what about the good old-fashioned American principles of responsibility and accountability -- principles which his candidate likes to invoke on the campaign trail? As Ari Berman has pointed out, the dilemma for Clinton is that Penn's firm represents many of the interests whose influence she has vowed to curtail. But as kids get sick from poisonous toys, how can Clinton keep in her corner, as her chief strategist, a man who has even limited involvement with a firm like Burson-Marsteller? Isn't it time that Clinton ask Penn to choose: my campaign to make this a safer country or a PR firm which has too many clients undermining that agenda?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/katrina-vanden-heuvel/isnt-it-time-for-mark-pe_b_72206.html


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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. Has she done anything right these past few weeks?
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Depends how you define "right"
from my point of view, plenty :-). I hope it continues along the same path...
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
15. Obama has the SECOND worst record in the senate
of missing votes. Beat out only by Tim Johnson from South Dakota who was seriously ill. He sits on the fence and misses the votes then when people complain about the votes some one else made he jumps in...AND IF THE OBAMA GROUPIES DON'T BELIEVE THIS...GO TO THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD WHICH LISTS THE SENATORS WHO HAVE MISSED THE MOST VOTES.....Since Tim Johnson is back, by now Obama might have the worst instead of the second.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Maybe, but Hillary voted for the war.
I'll stick with Obama, but thanks for the effort.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Hillary's record is nothing to celebrate -
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Calling BS on this
Despite your shouting, you're dead wrong:

This is for this year:
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/senate/vote-missers/
Obama has missed the 5th most votes, less than every other Presidential candidate other than Hillary. And that's because she hasn't had to do the ground work Obama and others have had to do. You can bet she'll be missing just as many votes as he does from here on, if not more.

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fightindonkey Donating Member (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
16. Obama HAS NO RECORD
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. Aw, "this poor guy." And what was the strategy on Kyl-Lieberman, Obama?
Or are people just being mean to you about that too, you poor widdle thing?
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I would bet Pam Sutherland, president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council would
not appreciate you demeaning her remarks like that.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
24. One of the weakest defenses I've ever seen
"I'm for getting guns off the streets, but I'm not for treating these juveniles as adults," said state Sen. Rickey Hendon (D-Chicago), who voted "present" with Obama."

You couldn't even find a quote from OBAMA (not some other joker who ducked the vote) explaining why he ducked the vote. And if Obama didn;t want to treat juveniles as adults, why didn't Obama vote NO?
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. That shows you're ignorant about the difference
between a "present" vote and a "no" vote.

And if you think it's "the weakest defenses I've ever seen", you're ignorant about this issue as well.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Another Obama supporter who can't defend Obama's cowardice
No defense, just attacks. There is no defense for Obama's cowardice
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Oh and calling Obama a coward isn't an attack?
When we have people saying this was a strategy?
When we have multiple people voting "present" along with him as a protest against the bill?
When voting "present" has a specific meaning, different from a "no" vote or not voting?

Don't you think it's more likely that the problem is your own ignorance?
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
29. So did others follow Obama on the Planned Parenthood strategy or not?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. another question - should they now? Even in the US Senate?
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. I can accept a political strategy being behind the votes.
Provided there was an actual strategy and this isn't one IL power player covering for another.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
31. BREAKING!! Illinois Senate record shows Obama voted "present." Obama supporters call it bogus
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 11:32 AM by wyldwolf
If a 15 year old thug killed your wife or mother or whatever, sure... you'd want him released at 21. :eyes:
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
34. Obama's team may want to reconsider their defense
"I was just doing what Planned Parenthood told me to do" could be used against them, especially in the General.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Good point.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
38. Hillary's attacks are starting to have a whiff of Rove about them

Let's see...have the least courageous candidate attack an opponent's courage... Now where have I seen that before???
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
41. Yeah, I knew this a few weeks ago
And to paraphrase what Clinton supporter said to me in response: "I don't care what planned parenthood thinks!"
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