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Mark Penn on Morning Joe today re: The kindergarten thing

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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:58 AM
Original message
Mark Penn on Morning Joe today re: The kindergarten thing
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 10:05 AM by bunnies
I was watching early this AM wanting to see John Edwards (who was great by the way) and Mark Penn called in to address the kindergarten / third grade thing. He says it was all just a great big joke and he cant believe that nobody got it. He wondered how anyone could take it seriously.

If I can find a clip Ill post it... pretty entertaining stuff.

edit: He not His. need. more. coffee.
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undercoverduer Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Its politics, you play the game, you take the risk and you suffer the consequences. . .
. . .Hillary's camp can't engage in snark then get upset when that snark is turned against them. This is politics and a significant part of politics is exploiting your opponents mistakes. The Hillary camp made a silly mistake and the Obama camp is smart to exploit it.
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Hieronymus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Indeed .. how can they expect anyone to think it was a joke. Silly comment?
Yes.
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Now they say it was a joke
funny
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
3. 'just a joke' is the defense Rush Limbaugh makes when he is called on his shit
Seeing a DEM campaign mogul pulling that crap is fucking pathetic.

Too many years of hiding behind 'it was just a JOKE' whenever someone calls bullshit on some piece of RW shit has left me without any humor for dealing with the tactic from anyone professing to be working for the DEMS

If HRC wants to stay in the race, she had better can Penn. He is NOT our friend.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. And of course, Joes response...
was to point out that basically Penn must think we're all suckers. And since when were press releases the appropriate place to 'joke'. It wasnt pretty.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Partial transcript of the exchange here --
JOE SCARBOROUGH: Why bring up his kindergarten teacher?

MARK PENN: Oh, that is so silly. You know, I have to say that I really wonder at the end of the day -- he put out an attack on her, trying to say that she had some 20 year plan, and at the end of a long thing as a joke, the campaign put out that he always wanted to run from kindergarten. It was a joke! And the spin machines here are so hyped up here about Senator Clinton and her campaign, that -- that someone would pick up on a joke like that and treat it as though it were serious. The serious part was Barack Obama did not serve really much time in the U.S. Senate before running for president. I mean, he touts his foreign policy experience, the subcommittee he chaired never even met. The serious part of this is he has no practical national or international experience, not the joke at the end of a very long and serious release. Gosh, you guys are so spinnable.

SCARBOROUGH : We are so spinnable. Sometimes I'm just ashamed. Zogby polls, kindergarten polls, what's wrong with me, Mark?

PENN: Exactly.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/12/04/clinton-campaign-attacks-press-not-realizing-kindergarten-crack-jo
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Thanks Jef dem!
Edited on Tue Dec-04-07 10:23 AM by bunnies
:yourock:

"Gosh, you guys are so spinnable". Tell us Mark.. are we being spun right now?
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Ann Coulter also does this n/t
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. Obviously, Penn is trying to walk this stupid charge back a bit...
A joke. Whatever.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Did hillary hire mark penn
as the joker?
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. So far, 'experience' looks to be making choices that make me doubt
what sort of appointments she would make if elected president.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I know it would be
business as usual..make sure the bushits are well protected from prosecution and keep the world from finding out what's been going on in Washington D.C. We need a leader not some bobber and weaver.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. The "it's a joke" sounds familiar
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. This guy makes me feel sick.
He is one of the main reasons I don't support Hillary in the primary.

From the Nation:
Yet Penn is no ordinary pollster. Beyond his connections to the Clintons, he not only polls for America's biggest companies but also runs one of the world's premier PR agencies. This creates a dilemma for Hillary: Penn represents many of the interests whose influence candidate Clinton--in an attempt to appeal to an increasingly populist Democratic electorate--has vowed to curtail. Is what's good for Penn and his business good for Hillary's political career? And furthermore, can she convincingly claim to fight for the average American with Penn guiding strategy in her corner?

Despite the risks he poses, it's easy to figure out why Hillary clings to Penn. The Clintons (like the Bushes) put a premium on loyalty, and they credit Penn with saving Bill's presidency. After the 1994 election, Democrats had just lost both houses of Congress and Clinton was floundering in the polls. At the urging of his wife, Bill turned to Dick Morris, a controversial friend from their time in Arkansas. Morris knew Penn from his days as a pollster in New York and brought him into the White House. Morris decided what to poll and Penn polled it. They immediately pushed Clinton to the right, enacting the now-infamous strategy of "triangulation," which co-opted Republican policies like welfare reform and tax cuts and emphasized small-bore issues that supposedly cut across the ideological divide. "They were the ones who said 'Make the '96 election about nothing except V-Chips and school uniforms,'" says a former Clinton adviser. When Morris got caught with a call girl, Penn became the most important adviser in Clinton's second term. "In a White House where polling is virtually a religion," the Washington Post reported in 1996, "Penn is the high priest." He became known as the "most powerful man in Washington you've never heard of."

Penn, who had previously worked in the business world for companies like Texaco and Eli Lilly, brought his corporate ideology to the White House. After moving to Washington he aggressively expanded his polling firm, Penn, Schoen & Berland (PSB). It was said that Penn was the only person who could get Bill Clinton and Bill Gates on the same phone line. Penn's largest client was Microsoft, and he saw no contradiction between working for both the plaintiff and the defense in what was at the time the country's largest antitrust case. A variety of controversial clients enlisted PSB. The firm defended Procter and Gamble's Olestra from charges that it caused anal leakage, blamed Texaco's bankruptcy on greedy jurors and market-tested genetically modified foods for Monsanto. Penn invented the concept of "inoculation," in which corporations are shielded from scandal through clever advertising and marketing. Selling an image, companies realized, was as important as winning a legislative favor.

for the rest: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070521/berman

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Comedy is not in his future
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Understatement of the day.
:rofl:
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well people wondered whether the attack was serious. Now you have your answer (nt)
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. Trying to wash off after egg of face revealed. Commenters aren't buying it. TPM Coverage here:
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/12/hillary_pollster_kindergarten_attack_was_just_a_gag.php

They're trying to spin their way out of this political BLUNDER. If anyone watched Dan Abrams last night he addressed how campaigns handle political problems like this-the strategists vote on how to get out of the mess. Lawrence O'Donnell and Dan Abrams weren't buying it last night and after reading comments around the web, neither are others.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. That's a funny clip.
"That's so silly." Indeed
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. The last laugh is on Mr. Penn...
We know what the real big joke is.


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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. Penn says it's a joke. So is that really his third grade teacher or not?
That'll tell you if it's a joke or not.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
21. "In '06, with Penn at the helm, the company gave 57% of Campaign Contrib to GOP"
"In '06, with Penn at the helm, the company gave 57% of Campaign Contrib to GOP" Maybe he is actually working for the GOP.



Polling Czar



After the 1994 election, Democrats had just lost both houses of Congress, and President Clinton was floundering in the polls. At the urging of his wife, he turned to Dick Morris, a friend from their time in Arkansas. Morris brought in two pollsters from New York, Doug Schoen and his partner, Mark Penn, a portly, combative workaholic. Morris decided what to poll and Penn polled it. They immediately pushed Clinton to the right, enacting the now-infamous strategy of "triangulation," which co-opted Republican policies like welfare reform and tax cuts and emphasized small-bore issues that supposedly cut across the ideological divide. "They were the ones who said, 'Make the '96 election about nothing except V-chips and school uniforms,'" says a former adviser to Bill. When Morris got caught with a call girl, Penn became the most important adviser in Clinton's second term. "In a White House where polling is virtually a religion," the Washington Post reported in 1996, "Penn is the high priest."

Penn, who had previously worked in the business world for companies like Texaco and Eli Lilly, brought his corporate ideology to the White House. After moving to Washington he aggressively expanded his polling firm, Penn, Schoen & Berland (PSB). It was said that Penn was the only person who could get Bill Clinton and Bill Gates on the same line. Penn's largest client was Microsoft, and he saw no contradiction between working for both the plaintiff and the defense in what was at the time the country's largest antitrust case. A variety of controversial clients enlisted PSB. The firm defended Procter & Gamble's Olestra from charges that the food additive caused anal leakage, blamed Texaco's bankruptcy on greedy jurors and market-tested genetically modified foods for Monsanto. PSB introduced to consulting the concept of "inoculation": shielding corporations from scandal through clever advertising and marketing.

In 2000 Penn became the chief architect of Hillary's Senate victory in New York, persuading her, in a rerun of '96, to eschew big themes and relentlessly focus on poll-tested pothole politics, such as suburban transit lines and dairy farming upstate. Following that election, Penn became a very rich man--and an even more valued commodity in the business world (Hillary paid him $1 million for her re-election campaign in '06 and $277,000 in the first quarter of this year). The massive PR empire WPP Group acquired Penn's polling firm for an undisclosed sum in 2001 and four years later named him worldwide CEO of one of its most prized properties, the PR firm Burson-Marsteller (B-M). A key player in the decision to hire Penn was Howard Paster, President Clinton's chief lobbyist to Capitol Hill and an influential presence inside WPP. "Clients of stature come to Mark constantly for counsel," says Paster, who informally advises Hillary, explaining the hire. The press release announcing Penn's promotion noted his work "developing and implementing deregulation informational programs for the electric utilities industry and in the financial services sector." The release blithely ignored how utility deregulation contributed to the California electricity crisis manipulated by Enron and the blackout of 2003, which darkened much of the Northeast and upper Midwest.

Burson-Marsteller is hardly a natural fit for a prominent Democrat. The firm has represented everyone from the Argentine military junta to Union Carbide after the 1984 Bhopal disaster in India, in which thousands were killed when toxic fumes were released by one of its plants, to Royal Dutch Shell, which has been accused of colluding with the Nigerian government in committing major human rights violations. B-M pioneered the use of pseudo-grassroots front groups, known as "astroturfing," to wage stealth corporate attacks against environmental and consumer groups. It set up the National Smokers Alliance on behalf of Philip Morris to fight tobacco regulation in the early 1990s. Its current clients include major players in the finance, pharmaceutical and energy industries. In 2006, with Penn at the helm, the company gave 57 percent of its campaign contributions to Republican candidates.

-snip
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/berman



JUST LOOK WHO HIS CLIENTELE INCLUDE (UNION-BUSTERS, ERIK PRINCE (BLACKWATER):

Isn't it Time for Mark Penn to Leave Burson-Marsteller?
Posted November 12, 2007 | 11:18 AM (EST)


My colleague at The Nation, Ari Berman, has done more than any journalist to shine some light on how pollster-strategist Mark Penn, head honcho at PR giant Burson-Marsteller, and perhaps the most important figure in Hillary Clinton's campaign, poses a real dilemma for the candidate. Penn heads a firm that has represented everyone from union busters to big tobacco, and more recently Blackwater. (According to a Marsteller spokesperson, it was a subsidiary, BKSH & Associates, run by GOP operative Charlie Black, which helped Erik Prince prepare for congressional hearings after his employees killed civilians in Iraq).It would seem difficult to find a more controversial client than Blackwater but Penn's firm has just been retained by Spin Master.

Who is Spin Master? It turns out that Spin Master distributes Aqua Dots, a toy that was recalled last week because it contains a glue ingredient that when ingested is broken down by the body to make GHB, the "date rape" drug, which can cause unconsciousness and even death. (The Consumer Product Safety Commission says the number of children sickened by Aqua Dots has risen from two to nine in the past week.)

Penn has repeatedly stated that he has no direct contact with controversial clients like Blackwater or unionbusters. But what about the good old-fashioned American principles of responsibility and accountability -- principles which his candidate likes to invoke on the campaign trail? As Ari Berman has pointed out, the dilemma for Clinton is that Penn's firm represents many of the interests whose influence she has vowed to curtail. But as kids get sick from poisonous toys, how can Clinton keep in her corner, as her chief strategist, a man who has even limited involvement with a firm like Burson-Marsteller? Isn't it time that Clinton ask Penn to choose: my campaign to make this a safer country or a PR firm which has too many clients undermining that agenda?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/katrina-vanden-heuvel/isnt-it-time-for-mark-pe_b_72206.html
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