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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 01:49 AM
Original message
Facts about the negative attacks going on by Clinton supporters here.
AP claimed Obama's "mining lobbyist ties" are "raising questions" but did not say with whom

Summary: Associated Press reporter Kathleen Hennessey wrote that Sen. Barack Obama "opposes a bill that would change the nation's 135-year-old mining law -- the same stance as mining industry executives who employ a Nevada-based lobbyist advising the presidential candidate," which Hennessey said is "raising questions." Despite the suggestion of impropriety, Hennessey offered no evidence or allegation of wrongdoing. Hennessey's article is the latest in a series of media reports on Obama that have suggested possible wrongdoing on his part, but, at the same time, failed to identify any allegations or evidence that he acted improperly.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711150015
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Holy Cow...




Geez.. And after all the work "Elmer and the Fuds" put into that bogus story!


Kudos to Media Matters (via CalTeacher) for clearing the air.


. . .
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Holy Cat - let's try this.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Holy Cat.



Glad the story has been debunked (that blog was from back in early November) ~
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. LOL - you made my night.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Speaking of cats ...


Did you know Dick Cheney actually has one !?!?!

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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Like father - like son. Poor kittty.
:hug:
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. The pics all rock
But elmer fudds cat is the best of the lot
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. The Fox News approach huh?
"Some people say..."
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Nah, it's the "I'm about to lose approach".
:)
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. Yup, that's calguys approach. You nailed it katz!
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. The "Associated Press" is "Clinton supporters"?
Clarkie1, you might try to occasionally compose an OP subject line that doesn't over-expose your obsessive hatred of Hillary Clinton.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. BINGO
Can you imagine what Clarkie1's "show and tell" sessions are like in school? Those poor students...
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Um, there is an OP by a Hillaryworlder featuring this bogus AP hit piece...
Edited on Fri Dec-07-07 06:59 PM by ClarkUSA

"Obama ties to mining lobbyist, opposition to bill draws scrutiny"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3803428

Back to the drawing board looking for stories that attack Obama by innuendo minus facts... too bad that the Madrassa swiftboating email blew up in Clinton
campaign's collective faces, eh?

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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
11. Obama's ties to Illimois soft coal mine owners is not a secret - his energy plan indeed includes
more coal unlike all other Dem energy plans.

But there is nothing I can find that shows public statements by Obama that "opposes a bill that would change the nation's 135-year-old mining law"

If there are any, the reporter should reference them.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Not true
The Edwards plan calls for $1 billion in yearly coal industry subsidies for "clean coal" research. Obama's energy plan is excellent.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. "clean coal" research is chasing an excuse to use coal when pumping gas back into
Edited on Fri Dec-07-07 08:24 PM by papau
the earth can't work - period. But they all do give lip service to the idea that we can sequester carbon geologically - it was just that Obama has had his soft coal meetings with the mine owners over the the years, and that smells a bit worse. Plus his plan is not as detailed as Richardson or Clinton's as to the protections that are planned beyond the carbon cap and trade idea:

Edwards says:"Maximize the Potential of Cleaner, Safer Coal: Coal will be an important source of U.S. and global electricity for decades, but it is responsible for more than 30 percent of America's carbon dioxide emissions. Edwards will invest $1 billion a year to research ways to burn coal cleanly and recycle its carbon underground permanently. He will also strengthen mine safety laws to ensure it is mined safely. Two large power companies, TXU and American Electric Power, recently announced plans to build experimental plants to capture carbon. ".

The best energy plan out there is Bill Richardson's: "We need a suite of options to promote end use efficiency and clean alternatives. As in the transportation sector, some of these changes will employ new technologies and will develop markets for new energy sources, such as solar, wind, geothermal, carbon-clean coal, and, where it is safe and cost-effective, nuclear power. Low-carbon electricity standard -A new low-carbon electricity standard will allow fossil resources such as coal to enter the marketplace while they make steady progress toward low- and ultra-low net carbon emissions. Starting in 2010, all new electric plants will have to meet the emissions profile of a new advanced natural gas turbine (about 60% less than conventional coal generating facilities). By 2020, new plants will have to have a net carbon impact 90% below today's. Some older, less efficient conventional plants will likely be retired because they are such a big contributor to global warming (see cap and trade under Goal 3, Climate, below). The promise of ultra-low and zero-carbon energy from fossil fuels such as oil and gas or coal (converted to hydrogen-based fuels) requires efficient, affordable systems to sequester carbon geologically. Although sequestration has been implemented for decades in the form of enhanced oil recovery, the science, technology, rules, and legal regime for permanent carbon sequestration have not been perfected. Experts estimate that, even with a highly focused program, the development of a top-to-bottom sequestration program will take at least five years and significant funding. The world's atmosphere cannot long endure the addition of a major conventional coal plant every week in China, and China (including its National Academy of Sciences) recognizes that global warming will affect its people and economy as drastically as it will affect most of the world. These inherently contradictory positions can be brought together in a satisfactory new policy only with U.S. involvement and leadership"

but Hillary's is not bad: Coal plays a major role in America’s energy mix, powering fifty percent of America’s electricity generation, and we still have enormous coal reserves. At the same time, coal-fired power plants are the largest contributor to U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and are responsible for emissions of mercury and other dangerous pollutants. Hillary understands that continuing to build new coal plants in the same way that we have in the past will make it extremely difficult to meet our climate change goals. Hillary’s plan includes many components that would alleviate the need for
additional coal plants in the coming years. For example, hr strong efficiency measures will reduce the need for new power plants. Hillary also believes that we need to take swift action to spur the development and deployment of technology and practices that will enable us to capture, store and safely sequester carbon dioxide from coal-fired power plants. To accelerate the development of this important technology, Hillary would put immediate funding towards 10 large scale carbon capture and storage projects that utilize a range of coal types, power plant types, and storage locations. She
will move quickly to develop the regulatory framework to ensure that carbon sequestration can be done safely and reliably. And she will require all new coal plants to be capable of adding capture and storage technology when it becomes commercially available. Efficiency First--Maximize Energy Efficiency to Address Coal Demand: A 2006 McKinsey Global Insight study of global energy efficiency potential found that all future energy service
demand growth in North America can be met through cost-effective energy efficiency investments, such as greener building technologies and more efficient vehicles. Recent examples prove that efficiency can dramatically reduce the need to build new power plants. Earlier this year, investors acquired TXU and scrapped plans to build 8 of 11 planned coal-fired power plants in Texas. Part of the plan to replace the 8 planned power plants was a $400 million
increase in expenditures on customer efficiency. To maximize the potential for efficiency, Hillary would direct state utility commissions to ensure that before approving an application to build a coal plant, there is an evaluation of whether the energy services provided by that plant could be met by cost-effective investments in energy efficiency.


Here is Obama's plan: Invest in low emissions coal plants -Develop and Deploy Clean Coal Technology: Coal is our nation's most abundant energy source and is a critical component of economic development in China, India and other growing economies. Obama believes that the imperative to confront climate change requires that we prevent a new wave of traditional coal facilities in the U.S. and work aggressively to transfer low-carbon coal technologies around the world. In the U.S. Senate, Obama successfully increased funding by $200 million for carbon storage in the fiscal year 2008 budget resolution. As president Obama will significantly increase the resources devoted to the commercialization and deployment of low carbon coal technologies. Implementing these technologies as soon as possible is vital to the transition to a clean energy economy and will help other nations dependent on coal reduce their emissions as well. In addition to addressing new facilities, Obama will work to ensure that existing coal facilities are retrofitted with carbon capture and sequestration technology as soon as it is commercially available. Obama will use whatever policy tools are necessary, including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities, to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology. Obama's stringent cap on carbon will also make it uneconomic to site traditional coal facilities and discourage the use of existing inefficient coal facilities.

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. The Richardson plan lacks detail and substance.
I know that's the cliche we're supposed to use for Obama but I think what Obama has on his website, which is much more than you posted here, is very good.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. On coal, what I posted is everything Obama has on his website pdf. n/t
Edited on Sat Dec-08-07 06:57 PM by papau
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Anyway,
these other plans do include use of coal. Edwards perhaps most of all. Obama's ban on new coal fire power plants looks a lot better than Edwards' huge coal industry subsidies.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. true - but Obama does not discourage or regulate against coal - all do "research"
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-08-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yes he does.
Its right in what you posted.

"Obama will use whatever policy tools are necessary, **including standards that ban new traditional coal facilities,** to ensure that we move quickly to commercialize and deploy low carbon coal technology."

A ban on coal fire power plants is gutsy and more than what most candidates are saying. I don't see that in the Richardson plan.

Plus this,
"In addition to addressing new facilities, Obama will work to ensure that existing coal facilities are retrofitted with carbon capture and sequestration technology as soon as it is commercially available."

That's very important because the worst coal plants operating today were grandfathered in. The Richardson plan says older plants will likely be retired but it doesn't say he will require improvements (at least in what you posted here), so Obama looks better on that point again.

And this,

"Obama's stringent cap on carbon will also make it uneconomic to site traditional coal facilities and discourage the use of existing inefficient coal facilities."

So there are three ways that Obama does discourage and regulate against coal. He addresses the biggest part of the problem, older existing coal fire power plants, and it looks like he addresses it more directly than the others you posted.
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DanielleClarke Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
12.  Obama speaking out against mountaintop removal coal-mining
Obama speaking out against mountaintop removal coal-mining
« on: October 24, 2007, 07:17:53 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mountaintop removal has been getting a lot of netroots attention lately, with DevilsTower's "30 days for the Mountains Series."

Obama is the only major candidate to come out publically against mountaintop removal.

Edwards even voted for MORE mountaintop removal in 1999 ( http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=106&session=1&vote=00370 ), and he and Clinton are nowhere to be found on the subject these days. I think that Obama's opposition to mountaintop removal is something we should all try to emphasize in the next few weeks. Particularly while Al Gore (who also opposes MTR) is considering who he might endorse.

Here are two links to Obama speaking out against mountaintop removal coal-mining:
http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/frontporch/blogposts/obama_says_that_we_must_find_a_way_around_mtr
http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/frontporch/blogposts/presidential_candidates_coming_around_on_mtr/

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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thanks. nt
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. interesting
I've noticed the same theme in other alleged Obama "scandals". Obama does nothing illegal or even unethical and "some people" have "raised eyebrows", as if Obama did something wrong.

Typical.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. First I heard of it, but to tell you the truth
I am starting to think Obama is more to the right than Hillary, and I am particularly concerned about his SS and Healthcare positions.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. No need to be "concerned" - National Journal rates him most liberal out of all the Dem candidates
Edited on Fri Dec-07-07 06:39 PM by ClarkUSA
Obama is way more liberal than Clinton, whose "conservative voting score" is more than twice that of Obama's.

Link: http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Way more my butt.
http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/pdf/06democrats.pdf

Why don't you explain his attacks from the right of Hillary on SS and Healthcare.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Repeating Clintonian talking points don't make it so...
Sorry. ;-)
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I've pretty much given up
trying to get any truth out of you.
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. The feeling is mutual...
Sadly.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Sadly here as well
I only recently discovered I knew who you were. You can dislike and distrust me because of my occasional rants against the netroots and the groupthink against anything Clinton, but I'll gladly debate you anytime on these issues. Expect further challenges to your claims.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Besides
he hardly has a record in the senate to judge by.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. And that's a good thing for a Presidential candidate.
When know how Senate records can be used to deceive. I would think we all learned that in 2004.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. My read is that Obama is the most conservative of Edwards/Clinton/Obama based on actual
proposals and actual voting records.

But he does speak well.
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Progress And Change Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-07-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. that is Obama's dirty little secret that he hides from progressives
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