I Never Thought the Clinton Campaign Would Stoop to the Madrassa Low

[Bullet1987]

I for one don't believe for a second that Bob Kerrey's remarks regarding Barack Obama muslim father (and madrassa) are a compliment. Not only has it been debunked that he never went to a madrassa...but it's a fucking right-wing trash argument! This coincides with the madrassa emails that were released "by accident" or whatever the hell they said. It coicides with Bill Shaheen's cocaine comments...these sidearm attacks are not by accident.

Whatever happened to the Politics of Personal Destruction Mrs. Clinton? I hope they realize how deep they're digging themselves in their own grave!!

[babylonsister]

1. I agree; they're wading in the dregs now, it's transparent, and I hope

more people figure out what they're attempting to do.

[annie1]

32. If it's true that's what they're doing...

i'll be really upset. the problem is that it's hard to tell when so many obama supporters already have said such hateful things about the clintons that i can't tell if they're just continuing to demonize the clintons, and playing crying victim or not. I don't know why the clintons' are sweating obama anyway, they shoulda just mostly ignored his ass. God he puts me to sleep. but if they clintons actually are going after the muslim angle, i will ditch them and put whoever else the dems nom instead.

[babylonsister]

34. Kerrey supports Clinton; it's pretty obvious to me. Their campaign

got called out and 3 volunteers were fired for sending the muslim e-mails slandering Obama, too. Then the guy who brought up the cocaine who later quit/resigned/was fired.

The personal integrity angle doesn't seem too important to them at the moment. And I'll bet there's more to come.

[Hieronymus]

40. Kerrey lives in New York now .. does he want Hillary's senate seat?

[babylonsister]

44. That's interesting; I don't know. nt

[annie1]

46. Ooh, nice one. That's some brainy s--t Edwards woulda thoughta! ...

seriously, i'm not being sarcastic. :D

[rinsd]

2. Show me a link with Kerrey saying Obama went to a madrassa.

[Bullet1987]

5. He said it on CNN not even an hour ago...but I'm sure it'll show

up in an article somewhere.

[geek tragedy]

18. Right here:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2007/10/bob_kerrey_discusses_leadershi.cfm

[annie1]

31. well, if it's true that they're doing it to be shady, i will write...

a letter to hillary's campaign. but i would need to know for sure.

[Eurobabe]

97. It was just on Hairball, and Tweets took Bob Kerrey to task

saying he HOPED it wasn't a cheap shot at Obama.

[K Gardner]

3. Here's the link:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2007/10/bob_kerrey_discusses_leadershi.cfm

[NYCGirl]

10. That was his first mention. He did it again, and this time called the school

a "madrassa".

[TwilightZone]

4. Never mind.

Found it myself.

[elizm]

7. K Gardner gave you the link...

And here it is again. F--- Bob Kerrey. He is just as stupid as Bill and Hillary and they call all go down the tubes together.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2007/10/bob_kerrey_discusses_leadershi.cfm

[sniffa]

6. of course that's what he intended

but remember, the Clinton hands are clean.

[maddiejoan]

8. What's wrong with his comment?

"I love that his name is Barack Hussein Obama; that he was educated for a while in a secular madrassa. He can speak like no other candidate to a billion Muslims on this earth and say we’re not your enemy unless you make us so."

Seriously -- not seeing it.

[sniffa]

12. and what's wrong with shrill?

i'm not seeing it.

[TwilightZone]

13. The claim is that mentioning Hussein and madrassa makes it an attack.

[maddiejoan]

15. Because to Obama supporters

the "truth" is an attack?

[TwilightZone]

17. To Obama supporters...

it seems that everything is an attack.

Disclaimer: I haven't selected a candidate yet. I just find the ridiculous hyperbole attached to every statement that is ever made about Obama kind of silly. These statements receive a disproportionate amount of attention and are often mangled into something that doesn't resemble the original in the slightest.

[K Gardner]

21. The MSM is driving this story, not supporters of Obama.

It's all over CNN and MSNBC, all shows.

[JackORoses]

48. is it 'true' that the school was a Madrass? No. is it true that Obama is a Muslim? No.

Sounds like truthiness to me.

[TwilightZone]

58. Every school in Indonesia is a madrassa.

It's an Arabic word that applies to any type of school: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrassa

If he attended school in Indonesia, he attended a madrassa.

[JackORoses]

64. Then why say Madrassa instead of School? There is a reason.

By your rationale you could say Hillary went to an American Madrassa.
Though technically correct, it is still deceptive.

The reason the word 'Madrassa' is used is because of the negative connotations associated with it.

[goodhue]

67. indeed

This is the crucial point.

[TwilightZone]

71. "Hillary went to an American Madrassa" - not unless she went to school in an Arabic country.

Every school in Indonesia is a madrassa. Madrassah is the Arabic word for school, any type of school. Using the term is more accurate than using "school".

We have a lot of foreign words that are more accurate than their closest English alternatives. They permeate the language.

Why is using it deceptive? Because people are too ignorant and brainwashed to understand the difference between a religious school and a public one?

Sure, madrassah has a negative connotation, but perhaps someone (Obama, for example) should take the opportunity to do something about it. If we spend our lives living in fear of language and always pander to the lowest common denominator out of ignorance and stupidity, we might as well just give up.

[Andromeda]

99. Oh come on!

That's so subjective. Not everybody attaches a negative connotation to the word Madrassa, especially in Indonesia. It's not the same as the Madrassa in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.

[Ignis]

105. Precisely.

It's the same tactic as constantly repeating the word "cocaine." Who needs this sort of letter-of-the-law deception in a Democratic primary?

[maddiejoan]

59. Who said Obama is a muslim?

Not me. Not Bob Kerrey. Not Hillary Clinton

Madrassa means school. That's ALL it means. A secular madrassa is a secular school.

[JackORoses]

65. why use that word then if 'school' is just as applicable?

Because Madrassa has negative connotations in America, no matter if you qualify it as secular.

Didn't Hillary go to a Madrassa?

[maddiejoan]

68. No

Hillary went to a school.

But if Obama supporters are good with all things in the arabic language being construed as evil, then I would point out they are part of the problem.

[JackORoses]

86. you are as stubborn as your candidate

We aren't talking about the Arabic language and its appropriate use.

We are talking about the underhanded smear the Clinton camp is utilizing by using this loaded term, compounded by bringing up the fact that his father and grandmother are Muslim.

Yes, admittedly they are Muslim.
But when a Campaign related Person makes comments such as these about an opponent, they are not improvised.
They are coordinated with estimated potential voter doubt.

They are playing the risk of being seen as negative against the gain of filling voters with phantom reservations about Obama.

[Andromeda]

100. Why is saying that his father and grandmother

are Muslim a smear? Isn't that the truth? Why is the truth a smear?

If Obama is so touchy about this then why is he running for public office? You know that his life will be dissected by the MSM and the opposition.

This is just stupid.

[tabasco]

98. You think everybody is pretty stupid, huh?

So does Hillary.

[Dems Will Win]

53. This is what the Clinton County co-Chair emailed out on Obama, circulating a debunked 2006 RW email

THIS DEFINITELY WARRANTS LOOKING INTO. THIS COUNTRY WAS
> FOUNDED, “ONE NATION UNDER GOD”. ALMIGHTY GOD, NOT THE GOD OF THE
> KURAN.

>
> We checked this out on ” snopes.com”. It is factual.
> Check for yourself.
>
> Who is Barack Obama?
>
> Probable U. S. presidential candidate, Barack Hussein
> Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a
> black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHIEST
> from W ichita, Kansas.
>
> Obama’s parents met at the University of Hawaii. When
> Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to
> Kenya. His
> mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from
> Indonesia.

When Obama was 6 years old, the family relocated to
> Indonesia. Obama attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta. He also spent two
> years in a Catholic school.
>
> Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a
> Muslim. He is quick to point out that, “He was once a Muslim, but that
> he also
> attended Catholic school.”
>
> Obama’s political handlers are attempting to make it
> appear that Obama’s introduction to Islam came via his father, and that
> this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama
> returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct
> influence over
> his son’s education.
>
> Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama’s mother, Ann
> Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Obama was enrolled in a Wahabi
> school in Jakarta.
>
> Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the
> Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world.
> Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking Major
> public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the
> United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background.
> ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he
> DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Kuran (Their
> equevelancy to our Bible, but very different beliefs)
>
> Let us all remain alert concerning Obama’s expected
> presidential candidacy.
>
> The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US
> from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level
> - through the President of the United States, one of their own!!!!
>
> Please forward to everyone you know. Would you want this
> man leading our country?…… NOT ME!!!

[maddiejoan]

56. and that e-mail is a piece of garbage and slander

and the offending staffers were canned.


What Bob Kerrey said is not slander.

[Yuugal]

82. "What Bob Kerrey said is not slander."

True. When Kerrey starting talking about how happy he was that his middle name was Hussein and he went to a madrassa, that was not slander.....it was character assassination and anyone with half a brain I'm sure knew what Kerrey was trying to say without saying.

My ears heard a guy I never liked much in the first place say Obama's name and background could be an asset when dealing with the 1 billion muslims around the world. My gut heard him say "Osama Hussein will burn you in your sleep infidel! And your little dog too!"

Whatever. As long as Hillary and Obama knife fight Edwards edges upwards.

[maddiejoan]

85. Then with all due respect

You are a racist.

[Yuugal]

94. I'm a racist now?

If you think Kerrey wasn't hoping ma and pa kettle would read between the lines then I think you're either being naive or disingenuous. Let me put it this way: since Kerrey supports Hillary, why would he get himself on the news praising something about Obama? Puh-lease!

Thanks for the racist attack though. It reminds me again why I'll never vote for Shillary. Not only is she ugly on the inside, her supporters are too.

[MattSh]

96. HUH?

:wtf:


.

[Usrename]

102. racism

If you are a person in a group that is being discriminated against, and you notice the discrimination, and you speak out, you are open to attack for playing the "race card".

This one specific example of the denial of racial discrimination is so carefully crafted, to be the trump card. It is the supreme argument in the most hideous displays of bigotry, even useful in defending the shame and horror of the Katrina aftermath. Nothing to be ashamed of, nothing to be horrified by, those folks who think it is racist are just playing the "race card". That is how the trump card is played.

What better way to hide one's own bigotry from themselves? Accuse the object of their bigotry of something much worse, accuse them of pretending to be harmed, accuse them of feigning injury. That way the moral superiority of their bigotry and hate can be maintained, they win the high ground in their minds.

This same technique is used in arguments against affirmative action, pretending to speak for a level playing field, yet willfully ignoring all evidence that the playing field is not level by any honest standard.

Bigots have gotten pretty good at making their arguments for their behavior. I would offer that there are two things that do not seem interchangeable to me when discussing this topic. Xenophobia or fear of others not like ourselves is different than racism or the belief that one race is superior or inferior to the other.

In many cases, people are covering their fears. The fears, I believe are natural artifacts of evolution, no more significant than being right or left handed, or having blue eyes. It is how this fear is vulnerable to predation upon the human psyche by folks with nefarious purposes that is dangerous.

this post is inspired by an article by Tim Wise, What Kind of Card is Race
http://www.counterpunch.org/wise04242006.html

[bunnies]

14. You mean.. besides the fact that its a lie?

Obama didnt go to a madrassa. Other than that... nothing.

[maddiejoan]

16. Do you know what a madrassa is?

It's what they call schools there. He went to a secular madrassa. So what?

His middle name is Hussein. So what?

Hussein is almost as common as "Smith"

[bunnies]

19. A madrassa isnt a public school as far as I know.

Am I wrong?

[TwilightZone]

24. Yes and no.

Some madrassas are religious. Some are secular.

[bunnies]

29. ok I see...

The encyclopedia is my friend. :) Apparently, its just the arabic word for "school"? Am I on pace now? :shrug:

Kinda like how Allah is the arabic word for "God"? Now I see the issue.

[TwilightZone]

35. As you discovered, it's largely a matter of semantics.

It's a semantic issue, which leads to it being contentious. Many people generally associate the word with religious schools, and Kerrey differentiated by including the word "secular".

People seem to be taking offense to his statement, assuming that he wanted to give people the impression that Obama attended a Muslim-affiliated religious school.

Not sure I agree with that assumption. Kerrey clearly indicated it was a secular school, so to believe that his intent was negative, one would have to assume that he just wanted people to misinterpret him. Possible, I suppose.

[bunnies]

38. But doesnt just using the arabic word inflame people...

in and of itself? Isnt it similar to saying that he prays to Allah?

Why is Kerrey even talking about Obamas grade school experience? We dont hear about this with any other candidate.

Im really not sure what to make of it myself. I just dont know what to think.

[TwilightZone]

42. If you take the statement at face value, Kerrey is bringing it up...

because he feels that it gives Obama a unique perspective as a potential president.

That's true, of course. Obama's international exposure gives him a view that none of the other candidates share. It's a benefit, in my opinion, and his varied background is one of the things that make him an intriguing candidate.

So, the statement itself really isn't contentious.

The intent is really where the dispute lies. The statement is fine, if it's intended as a compliment. Some people are taking it differently, of course, assuming that it was just an excuse to get the two "m" words back into public discussion.

Personally, I think either is possible. I think it's more likely that it was meant as a compliment, but that's just my opinion.

[sniffa]

43. yes, and that's the point

they're aiming at people's deep, ingrained, guttural prejudices.

spin all they like, it's the same as when Mitt "mistakenly" kept calling Osama, Obama.

[maddiejoan]

41. exactly

Now the question is -- can Obama as a Presidential candidate choose to educate people? or will he, by calling it an attack, further the horrible condition of prejudice in this country towards those of Muslim faith.

He has a chance here to turn the tide of the Bush administrations years of attack on anything muslim into a positive. If he's really the man to be the next President --he'll take the opportunity.

[bunnies]

52. You know what?

I agree with you. It makes me *so* mad when I hear people referring to Allah as if its some sort of false anti-christian God. I cant tell you how many times Ive yelled at my TV... "its just GOD in a different language, you idiots!"

I think Obama would be wise to nip this whole thing in the bud and set the record, as well as the American people straight. But at the same time I have to wonder about the motives of those using arabic words unnecessarily.

[maddiejoan]

54. If Obama would only do THAT--

--I'd jump ship on Hillary and support him instead.

[cali]

26. you are and you aren't. But your more right than wrong.

Kerrey used language that he knew would alarm and inflame, and the only rational conclusion is that he did it deliberately.

[bunnies]

30. see my post #29 above...

am I getting the gist of it now?

[JackORoses]

50. why do Hillarites play dumb when they know exactly what is going on?

You know why they are giving these 'compliments'.
They cannot beat Obama fair and square, so they try to turn him into some Islamic bogeyman.

Are you dumb, or do you just agree with this strategy?

[maddiejoan]

51. I disagree with your premise

I have been through this entire campaign troubled by the fact that simply talking about Obama is construed as attacking Obama.

No, Jackie boy --I'm not dumb.

I'm fed up with Obama's supporters.

[JackORoses]

70. if you aren't dumb, then you know exactly what the Clinton camp is doing

Quit pretending that it's all above-board, honest discussion of Obama.

Hillary is employing innuendo and 3rd-party smear tactics to attack Obama,
all while playing as if her hands are clean.

[maddiejoan]

79. I think the world you have chosen to live in --

--is an ugly world.

[Cha]

81. Pretend is

all they got..right on down the line.

[geek tragedy]

20. Obama did NOT attend a madrassa.

Wow, the moral blindness it takes for many to support that woman . . .

[maddiejoan]

25. Madrassah means school

That's all the word means.

There are secular Madrassa and their are Muslim Madrassa.

[TeamJordan23]

36. Come on, no one in America thinks about madrassas as public schools. nm

[maddiejoan]

39. Then perhaps

Obama can use this as a means to educate.

[TwilightZone]

63. It would certainly be an opportunity to do so.

This will not be the last time the issue is in the public eye. If Obama came out and said, "Look, folks, every school in Indonesia is a madrassa. It's the Indonesian word for "school", any type of school. Some are religious, those are the ones that everybody thinks of when they hear "madrassa". Others are secular and are not affiliated with any religion. They are very similar to public schools in the U.S. I attended a secular school, blah, blah...."

Maybe, just maybe, we could quit pandering to the lowest common denominator and educate some of the sheeple.

[maddiejoan]

66. Nahhhhh

It's easier to just slam Bob Kerrey, who if you even bother to watch the video, seems genuine in his praise.

[TwilightZone]

72. I have to admit - reading the quote, I'm a little amazed at the interpretations that have developed.

99% of the garbage that has been written about it this afternoon simply doesn't exist.

If anything, the statement seems to be trying to eliminate some of the ignorance that others claim it is meant to exploit.

[maddiejoan]

77. That's how I read it as well

It's getting so freakin' silly on DU

[JackORoses]

87. why doesn't the Hillary camp assist him in educating people, rather than using it as political ammo

[Bullet1987]

37. It's a muslim school...which is still wrong

It was a public school in Indonesia...it wasn't a madrassa PERIOD!

[TwilightZone]

45. Madrassa is the Arabic word for any type of school

So, technically, it is correct. He went to a school in an Arabic country, so he did indeed go to a madrassa.

He did not attend a religious madrassa. Hence, the word "secular" Kerrey used to describe it.

Edit: wikipedia link to madrasah/madrassa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrasah

[Kucinich4America]

57. and "Allah" is the Arabic name for God

But it's the perception of what those words mean, in this country, that counts. And thanks to the Bush Crime Family/Whore media programming, "madrassa" means "terrorist school" in the eyes of the sheeple. And Bob Kerrey knows damn well that's the case.

[TwilightZone]

61. So, because of ignorance and stupidity, we're afraid of using accurate terms?

Oh, yeah, I remember now. Freedom fries. Freedom toast.

[goodhue]

69. "school" would have been the accurate term

in English

[sniffa]

73. no, no, no

you have it all wrong. it's Obama's fault that Clinton's team is going for the racist vote.

[TwilightZone]

75. Islam is a race?

Wow, learn something new every day.

[sniffa]

76. i love your semantics

what's the word for a bundle of kindling again?

[TwilightZone]

78. Semantics?

You just referred to a billion people of nearly infinite racial variety as a race, and you want to whine at me about semantics.

That is one of the funniest things I've read today.

What's next - you're going to tell me that somebody "looks Jewish"?

[sniffa]

80. no

[sellitman]

88. You sound "anti-semantic"

Sorry......I couldn't help myself.

:evilgrin:

[TwilightZone]

91. Thanks for the laugh....

I sincerely mean that. That was hilarious!

:toast:

[TwilightZone]

74. Why do people say "rendezvous" instead of "meeting"?

Meeting is an English word. Why use a French one? Because it's more accurate?

[Lucinda]

28. Thats his October comment. Seems fine to me. I'd like to hear todays

in context.

[monmouth]

9. I think this will come back and really bite them. n/t

[lvx35]

11. delete

I questioned that they weren't a compliment, then I looked into it more and learned that the madrassa story was false. My bad.

[Onlooker]

22. What Kerrey said cuts both ways

Obama's background will make less of difference in the Dem primaries than in the gen'l election, and more this info is out there now, the easier it will be to deal with the Republican attacks should Obama be the nominee.

Besides, what Kerrey said is one of the reasons I support Obama:

"I love that his name is Barack Hussein Obama; that he was educated for a while in a secular madrassa. He can speak like no other candidate to a billion Muslims on this earth and say we’re not your enemy unless you make us so."

[Tom Rinaldo]

33. "Besides, what Kerrey said is one of the reasons I support Obama"

That is an irony about this controversy. I feel the same way personally. From my own perspective, it is one of the advantages that I give to Obama when I weight the pros and cons of our various candidates. It would help him be an effective President representing America to the world in my view, and the good will that Obama's background would likely generate helps counterbalence his relative lack of national security etc. experience somewhat in my own mind.

[goodhue]

47. But Kerrey does not support Obama, he supports Hillary

eom

[Stop Cornyn]

23. I have got bad news for you: she's not done yet, and they are going lower. Much lower.

[Bonhomme Richard]

27. I don't like it but Obama better get used to it.

What is happening now is nothing compared to what the right wing will be saying if he wins the nomination.
They will be able to play all the fear cards at once.

[ariesgem]

49. I had planned to vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination..

She could of taken a loss in Iowa & NH and came out winning the nomination based on the issues. Clinton has the name recognition, is ahead in many of the big states and has the establishment behind her. She could win solely on the "experience" issue.

But no, her campaign panics and decided they need to "Willie Horton" Obama, a fellow democrat and a good man. I'm am saddened and offended about the racist turn the Clintons decided to take and I will NEVER look at them the same again.

For the 1st time in 25 years, I will sit out a presidential election if Clinton is on the ticket.

[annie1]

60. before you buy into it hook and sinker or whatever the phrase is...

why not see if it actually IS what all the obama victims are crying about. If someone did something f--ked up to you, wouldn't you deal with it head on? Well if obama doesn't see any need to deal with it, then i'm not buying it. Too many people playing victim over here.

[rufus dog]

90. Welcome aboard!

I had decided a few months ago that I couldn't vote for her. Last month I started to reconsider. Now there is no way in hell I would vote for her. Sleaze is sleaze. Go to hell Hillary.

[zulchzulu]

55. I've given his comment a lot of thought...

I'd say it was a comment that had been crafted by someone in the campaign to plant a seed of doubt and perhaps told Kerrey he could use it in a "nice way". It smells like Carville. It's the equivalent of a push poll.

I would hope the Clintons wouldn't want to play that game. There is plenty of material on them...

[Lucinda]

62. Kerreys own words back in Oct:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2007/10/bob_kerrey_discusses_leadershi.cfm

"I love that his name is Barack Hussein Obama; that he was educated for a while in a secular madrassa. He can speak like no other candidate to a billion Muslims on this earth and say we’re not your enemy unless you make us so."

[Franc_Lee]

83. Hillary and Bill, push has come to shove, Obama causing Hil to return to New York and Bill knows it

[Evergreen Emerald]

84. STOP THE PRESSES Someone said OBAMA'S NAME

Stop the presses. Someone named the school Obama attended.

How dare they stoop to calling him by his name. How dare they stoop to telling: the TRUTH!

[JackORoses]

93. What if they said "Don't vote for Obama because he is black"? It's true he is black, Is this fair?

Not a chance.

Just because something is true does not mean it cannot be used to smear a candidate.

John Kerry's Purple Heart was used against him.

Barack Obama's heritage is being used against him.

[rufus dog]

89. each election cycle you find out who are the true patriots

and who are pieces of shit. It was Joe L. last time, now we learn Bob is a piece of shit!

[MzShellG]

92. Tell me about it...

Such bigot pandering. Blech!

[Quixote1818]

95. They have been reading Karl Rove's book

Though it remains to be seen if these tactics will work on Democrats. They may completely backfire as we are wise to this bull shit.

[Hippo_Tron]

101. Clearly he must've written his kindergarten essay at the madrassa

Next we'll hear that the thesis of the essay was "I want to be President so that I can turn America over to the Islamofascists."

[progressoid]

103. Oh...My...God...

If this pisses you off, you're gonna be in a rubber room by November (assuming Obama gets the nomination).

[MethuenProgressive]

104. Call the whaaaambulance! The mean man said a bad thing! Whaaaaaaa!!

This is how ObamaNation acts over a minor 'incident'?
"I love that his name is Barack Hussein Obama; that he was educated for a while in a secular madrassa. He can speak like no other candidate to a billion Muslims on this earth and say we’re not your enemy unless you make us so." -Sen Bob Kerry.
:rofl:
If nominated both Obama and DU's ObamaNation will fall to pieces when the GOP turns up the heat.

[EV_Ares]

106. Hillary has wanted this for a long time and wants to be President bad,

who knows what is next.

[Geek_Girl]

107. I remember Bill Clinton going on the talk show circuit

criticizing Carl Roves "dirty trick" political tactics in 2004. That all seems pretty hypocritical now.

[K Gardner]

108. Evidently MSNBC doesn't think it was an accident that the comments were made..

its still garnering a lot of MSM attention.