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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:00 PM
Original message
Greenspan goes after Edwards.
There is a very good diary over on DK about the republicans sending out Greenspan to attack Edwards, it's well worth reading:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/21/12043/368/34/425066
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Greenspan and his clusterfuck housing mess
how long will he be held blameless, asshole
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Every American who has been harmed by Greenspan's actions should go after him with enough
zealous vengeance to assure his name will live forevermore in infamy.
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. The Fed is NOT a federal agency; it's privately held
by powerful interests. Time to watch this again, or for the first time:

America: From Freedom to Fascism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ueEfRXZCVA



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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. That was a great read - thanks!
k/r
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Don;t forget the Clintons are Greenspan acolytes too
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Woah. that is f'd up.
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. An important article
And not just to Edwards supporters. The beast is already warming up its muscles. They have a wide range of options. We will see as many deployed as they feel required to protect their interests from the people. This is just an opening salvo. The elite class is not ready to make nice, and only a fool believes that they are. Make no mistake about it ... suppression of a populist movement is their first priority.

Change will not come without struggle. Period. Struggle can take many forms, and need not imply a descent into social chaos. But the longer allegedly progressive leaders soft pedal this, the greater the likelihood that sometime down the line we will indeed witness social chaos spill into the streets of this country. At some point, desperation turns into rage, and there are a lot of desperate people out there.

Those people need us to stand with them now, and that is why in my view the most serious Democratic candidates have always been Edwards and Kucinich. Because as near as I can tell these are the only two who completely get it and are willing to take the considerable risks involved in identifying the beast, naming it, and challenging it (and us)to a good old fashioned American political fight.
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ellacott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You summed that up very well :)
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. I agree
We need to stand up to them, and elect a nominee that will fight for the people! It's so obvious that those who take the money from corporate America will "NOT"]/b] be really working to change things! Money talks, and we all know that it has been doing a lot of talking in the Bush administration. We need "real" change, not more of the same, but with dems in charge. Edwards will stand up to them, and that scares the crap out of the "powers" that be! That alone should show America who we need to be voting for!
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. So much for the Fed being nonpartisan-
Thanks for the post Andy.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Big money HATES Edwards
almost as much as it fears him. Kucinich they can marginalize, but Edwards has too much support.

The joke's on them, too, because they've demonized Hillary for so long as so liberal (ha) that many voters actually see Edwards as a more moderate alternative. Ah, the backlash of concerted distortion...
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Good to see you POE-
And a very good point.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yeah, Alan, I really care what you think.
We're onto you now....
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Whoah, Nellie... Guess This Must Be Sending Some Sort Of Signal!!! n/t
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groovedaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. "The People are stupid. Let them eat cake!" So sayeth the Capitalist Toady
Alan Greenspan
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
14. XLT Post....very good reading
thanks!
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. Greenspan loves the Clintons. Wasn't he the one that called Clinton the best Republican
president we ever had?
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. Sigh....
They are NOT scared of him. He IS that flawed.

And, no, I don't support Greenspan, but most of the "attacks" on Edwards aren't that - they're pointing out some truths to his weaknesses.

Why do Edwards fans - from 2004 and now - have the thinest skins?

Note: try pointing out his record instead of gnawing a bone... Oh, wait... if you did that, you'd still come up short in defending him.

:eyes:
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Well let's see
If the boys with all the money support "your" candidate, and go after the one that "you" say hasn't got a chance, what does that tell you? Now it tells me they want "your" candidate because if "your" candidate wins, they know they will be able to carry on business as usual!

We edwards supporters don't have "thin" skins, we have the "right" candidate, and we support him. Like I have always said, the money trail tells you everything! Now how much money has "your" candidate gotten from the "big" boys with all the cash? :eyes:
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. As a former Clarkista, I beg to differ
Edited on Fri Dec-21-07 04:24 PM by The Traveler
Examine Clark's economic policies as formulated in his hastily constructed 2004 agenda and you will see a powerful progressive theme erected like a backbone. Of which, I might add, the General has plenty. Economic policies are not his forte' per se, so he had a lot of fleshing out to do, and he never really finished that task.

Much of Clark's policy, however, was based on the assumption that one could do business with business on a businesslike basis. Four years have passed, and the revelations of those four years place that assertion in serious doubt, at least where a certain class of businesses is concerned. It has become clear that these major corporations have only one interest: The expansion of their power and the ever accelerating accumulation of wealth. It has become clear that they have long exerted undue influence over the conduct of the people's business and to the detriment of the people. Balance must be restored, and unless that issue is directly confronted no substantial progress can be expected on the vital issues confronting America today.

I don't think Clark understands/accepts/believes that ... and so he sees no problem supporting Ms. Clinton, who clearly does not. This does not diminish the man in my eyes, by the way ... for this is a legitimate point of debate and disagreement.

Nor is the main target of the right wing libertarians John Edwards per se. John Edwards is but a man. A man can always be dealt with through some means -- marginalization by the corporate owned media, character assasination in tabloids, or ... and there is no evidence available that can convince me this is morally improbable for them ... the deployment of a lone gunman. No. A single man is not a problem for them. But they must prevent a movement from forming, and that man is calling loudly for such a movement.

No. Edwards is not a target ... the populism he now so passionately embraces is the target. The **idea** of populism is under assault. Greenspan tells us that the best thing for us is to watch our jobs melt away, our childrens' future be mortgaged, our industrial independence be surrendered along side any hope of meaningful energy independence, that we cannot possibly afford to preserve a healthy environment for our forbears, that this bleak future of corporate ascendance and a dying planet are the best we common people can possibly hope for. Because all those PhDs assure us there is nothing better, that we already live in the best of possible worlds.

That is a lie. Edwards denies the lie and counters it with a demand that we do better, that we come together in the name of our fellow man and woman to craft a superior possibility. Edwards not alone in this, but he is by far the most eloquent and daring of the front men for this band. (Proceeding with the analogy, Kucinich is laying down a hell of a riff himself these days.)

It is for this reason so many of us have chosen to stand with him. We acknowledge his faults --- he is as human as any of us. But he is out front in a big way in service of the cause that many of us hold as being vital to the future of this nation. And if some of us appear excessively sensitive, it is only because we are so desperately hopeful that somehow we can through his candidacy advance that cause to the betterment of ourselves, our fellows, and our children.

** Editing to fix a rambling sentence. Trav rambles sometimes. Forgive.
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Wish I could nominate your post. Beautiful. Thank you. n/t
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. That is quite a post.
Well said.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. Score one for Edwards--at least he has the right enemies n/t
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. Well, everyone knew THIS was coming. You can sometimes measure the merit of a man by
the enemies he keeps...
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frogmarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-21-07 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thanks, Andy. I'm thrilled asshole Greenspan is
doing this. So much the better for JE.

K&R
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
25. Greenspan was the architect of the looting of the treasury and the theft of middle class assets.
Greenspan was economics advisor to Reagan when he came up with his plan to loot the US Treasury. He got Reagan to raise Social Security (FICA) taxes to put lots of cash in the Social Security fund. Then Reagan pushed through tax cuts for the rich to "spur" the economy. The economy was in a recession because Greenspan's predecessor had pushed Fed interest rates through the roof "to prevent inflation".

As soon as the Social Security fund ballooned, Reagan cut taxes at Greenspan's urging. Since the government now had less income to work with, Greenspan suggested that the government get operating revenue by "borrowing" it from the Social Security fund and replacing that money with government IOU's. In that way, they covered up the now increasing deficit by taking the "debt" off of the books.

Later on they talked about the short fall in the SS fund by looking only at the cash on hand and ignoring the IOU's that they put there themselves. Their proposed solution was not to pay back the IOU's, but rather to cut benefits for retirees.

The second part of his plan involved getting himself appointed to be the head of the Federal Reserve. In that capacity he reduced the interest rates to ridiculously low levels. This had several effects designed to steal middle class assets, and increase profits for the corporations.

The low interest rates reduced interest paid to savings accounts, money markets, CD's, IRA's, etc. These instruments are what many middle class people use to hold their savings. The banks were still charging double digit interest on charge cards that many people use to pay for what they buy. So the banks were raking in huge profits by charging "high" and paying "low", often to the same people. (While legal, it still amounted to theft, because it wasn't "market" forces that were controlling the economy, but Greenspan's conniving.)

Low interest rates provided another assist to the corporations. Since people were losing interest on their savings, they were encouraged to buy stock which would grow and make the middle class investor wealthy. Many people took their savings and bought stock with it. (This is exactly what the middle class did in the years just prior to the Great Depression.)

All this money being thrown into the stock market had the desired effect of boosting stock prices. (By the law of supply and demand, throw a lot of money (high demand) into any market having a limited supply and you get price increases (inflation)). The price increases were not due to increased profits, but merely to the increase in the money supply within the stock market. However, the suckers did not understand this. It is a house of cards. At some point the number of buyers drops because potential buyers have exhausted their assets and have no more to invest. The insiders see this coming before anyone else and sell their stock, play their stock options, take their profits and bail out before the market collapses. Meanwhile, the corporate executives and stockbrokers walk away with a huge pile of middle class assets, willingly handed over in the middle class attempt to get rich quick.

Low interest rates also enabled the housing "boom". The banks, insurance firms, and investment companies had so much money thrown at them that they had much more lying around than they could legitimately invest in secure assets. Hence, the big gamble on sub-prime mortgages. It was inevitable that the housing bubble created by the Fed's artificially low interest rates would collapse. Meanwhile, the realtors, builders, and bank executives made a bundle, and safely took their profits out before the big collapse. Then they can run to the government to bail them out to "prevent a recession".

The only major candidate speaking to this fraud and theft is John Edwards. Kucinich recognizes it, but he has been marginalized by the corporate media. Edwards' message is catching on. Clinton and Obama have gotten themselves so in hock to corporate interests that they will do little to help the middle class.

As a litigator, Edwards was successful in fighting the corporations. Coming from working class and middle class backgrounds, he can talk to people in ways that resonate with their own situation. I strongly support John Edwards to be our candidate. He represents the Democrats' best chance to win the Presidency in 2008.

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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
26. Alan Greenspan has been wrong about everything. Attacking Edwards
is proof-positive that he's the best (most threatening to 'their' status quo) to lead us successfully away from Greenspan and his disastrous legacy.
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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
27. If you weren't an Edwards supporter before...
This should clinch it. Greenspan is a rightwing tool who does whatever the corporations want, whenever they want it. Throughout the nineties, he was constantly blathering about the ill effects of wage inflation (for working people -- he was fine with massive salaries for CEO's) while ignoring the stock market bubble. He moaned and warned about deficits, and then gave the green light to the Bush Administration tax cuts, knowing that would create barrels of red ink. And the subprime disaster? Didn't see that one coming, did he?

If this guy is opposed to Edwards, then Edwards is the guy.
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nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-22-07 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
29. Free advertising for Camp Edwards, I'd say.
eom
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