Clinton charges Obama agreed with Bush

[Herman Munster]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/22/531516.aspx

Obama had said the reason so many former Clinton advisers were backing him was based on his opposition to the Iraq war and the Kyl-Lieberman amendment on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Clinton countered that their records on Iraq are closer than Obama would have voters believe.

“He wasn’t in the Congress at the time,” she said, “and when he was running for the Senate, he said that he basically agreed with George Bush’s policy and conduct of the war. When he came to the Senate he voted to support it. So I think that once you’re in a position of responsibility and you actually have to be counted by what you do or what you look for, his record is the same as many of us.”

Clinton added that based on her experience “during the previous administration” and on the Senate Armed Forces Committee that she is “in a very good position to withdraw our troops in a safe, responsible way, starting as soon as possible.”

[ixion]

1. Clinton voted for the IWR and the Kyl-Lieberman travesty

so she has zero room to talk, IMO.

[ccpup]

5. but on March 22nd

Obama co-sponsored Senate Resolution 970 also branding the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as a Terrorist Organization, basically what Clinton voted for (a vote Obama conveniently missed, by the way. At least he didn't vote Present).

Political courage indeed.

[ixion]

12. I'm trying to defend anything Obama has done... he's not my candidate

I'm saying that Clinton has zero room to talk.

[ccpup]

15. if Obama makes it an issue

then she has every right to respond and educate people about the differences between her and Obama.

[Beacool]

41. And where was Obama? Oh yeah, campaigning in NH!! LOL!!

[ccpup]

2. yes

very safe to make a speech when you don't have to actually do anything (like vote) or pay any consequences. A true test of political courage would have been to invest his fledgling US Senate career with the same sense of anti-war outrage and passion he had in the State Senate.

But he didn't.

Guess the wind wasn't blowing that way when he had to cast his first actual vote either in support of or against The War.

How disingenuous of him.

[Herman Munster]

4. people bash Hillary for "triangulation"

But Obama is the biggest hypocrite and "triangulator" there is. He can talk about an issue for an hour and you are left scratching your head about what he said other than the word hope 427 times.

[sandnsea]

11. Only if you're an idiot n/t

[rodeodance]

32. yes, i agree with that---he talks too broadly-hard to pin down.

[Beacool]

42. Hey, don't ask for substance. It's all about the "audacity of hope".

More like the audacity to run run for president after completing only one year in the senate.

[cali]

16. Actually, it can be courageous. You don't think it took courage to

speak out against the war in 2003? It did. Look at all the shit Howard Dean got for it.

[ccpup]

20. yeah, it can be courageous

but how sincere is that courage if you then win your Senate Seat and vote lock-step to continue a war you were so apparently passionately against?

A bit disingenuous to remind people you were against the war -- as a State Senator who was of little consequence to the outcome of a vote you weren't actually involved in -- while doing nothing when you actually HAVE the power to actually stop it.

As a friend of mine said, it's easy to talk the big talk when you don't have to walk the walk. But when you gotta walk the walk? The big talkers often stumble and end up walking just like everyone else.

[wyldwolf]

3. Yep, Obama said he doesn't know how he would have voted had he been a Senator... but of course....

...he might have just skipped the vote all together or voted "present."

[ccpup]

8. and I love how the BamaBots

conveniently forget Senate Resolution 970, something Obama co-sponsored in mid-March branding the Iranian Revolutionary Guards a "terrorist organization".

At least he was doing something in the Senate, right? Other than sitting there with his finger in the air, meekly waiting to see which way the political breeze was gonna blow before making another rhetorically fancy speech filled with hot air and nothing else.

Talk about all hat and no cattle!

[ellisonz]

38. I think you've been had...

Iran Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007 (Introduced in Senate)

S 970 IS

110th CONGRESS
1st Session
S. 970

To impose sanctions on Iran and on other countries for assisting Iran in developing a nuclear program, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

March 22, 2007

Mr. SMITH (for himself, Mr. DURBIN, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mr. COLEMAN, Mr. LIEBERMAN, Mr. BROWNBACK, Mr. BAYH, Mr. KYL, Mr. THUNE, Ms. MIKULSKI, and Mr. MENENDEZ) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Finance

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/~c110SvLfVf:e0:

Obama did not cosponsor S. 970. unless by some magic feat Thomas LOC has been scrubbed clean.

[ccpup]

46. the link doesn't work,

but articles on 970 time and again refer to the 68 co-sponsors (Obama and Clinton being among them) who were on board.

in fact, here they are!

From: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-970

Sen. Gordon Smith

Cosponsors
Sen. Daniel Akaka
Sen. Wayne Allard
Sen. Evan Bayh
Sen. Robert Bennett
Sen. Barbara Boxer
Sen. Sherrod Brown
Sen. Samuel Brownback
Sen. Jim Bunning
Sen. Richard Burr
Sen. Maria Cantwell
Sen. Benjamin Cardin
Sen. Thomas Carper
Sen. Robert Casey
Sen. Saxby Chambliss
Sen. Hillary Clinton
Sen. Norm Coleman
Sen. Susan Collins
Sen. Kent Conrad
Sen. Bob Corker
Sen. John Cornyn
Sen. Larry Craig
Sen. Michael Crapo
Sen. Jim DeMint
Sen. Christopher Dodd
Sen. Elizabeth Dole
Sen. Byron Dorgan
Sen. Richard Durbin
Sen. John Ensign
Sen. Lindsey Graham
Sen. Kay Hutchison
Sen. James Inhofe
Sen. Daniel Inouye
Sen. John Isakson
Sen. Tim Johnson
Sen. Edward Kennedy
Sen. John Kerry
Sen. Amy Klobuchar
Sen. Herbert Kohl
Sen. Jon Kyl
Sen. Mary Landrieu
Sen. Frank Lautenberg
Sen. Joseph Lieberman
Sen. Blanche Lincoln
Sen. Trent Lott
Sen. Mel Martinez
Sen. John McCain
Sen. Mitch McConnell
Sen. Robert Menéndez
Sen. Barbara Mikulski
Sen. Lisa Murkowski
Sen. Patty Murray
Sen. Bill Nelson
Sen. Ben Nelson

Sen. Barack Obama

Sen. Mark Pryor
Sen. Pat Roberts
Sen. Ken Salazar
Sen. Charles Schumer
Sen. Jefferson Sessions
Sen. Olympia Snowe
Sen. Debbie Ann Stabenow
Sen. Ted Stevens
Sen. John Sununu
Sen. Jon Tester
Sen. John Thune
Sen. David Vitter
Sen. George Voinovich
Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse

I don't think I was "had", but nice try.

Still waiting to hear how one squares Obama's co-sponsorship of this Resolution with what he hangs around Clinton's neck with Kyle-Lieberman. You know, the vote he conveniently missed?

[ellisonz]

47. They had major differences....

The Counter-Proliferation Act of 2007 that Obama voted for had language that specifically stated:

Nothing in this Act shall be construed as authorizing the use of force or the use of the United States Armed Forces against Iran.

This act was about economic sanctions rather than military action, something that Obama has long advocated. It specifically checks any potential use to go to war. It also does not connect Iran with Iraq as does the Kyl-Lieberman bill.

http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2007/10/11/did-obama-skip-the-iran-vote/

In his own words:

The amendment, offered by Sens. Joe Lieberman and Jon Kyl, directly links the ongoing war in Iraq -- including our troop presence -- to checking the threat from Iran. The amendment opens with 17 findings that highlight Iranian influence within Iraq. It then states that we have to "transition(s) and structure" our "military presence in Iraq" to counter the threat from Iran, and states that it is "a critical national interest of the United States" to prevent the Iranian government from exerting influence inside Iraq.

Why is this so dangerous? The Bush administration could use language like this to justify a continued troop presence in Iraq as long as it perceives a threat from Iran. Even worse, the Bush administration could use the language in Lieberman-Kyl to justify an attack on Iran as a part of the ongoing war in Iraq.

As my colleague Sen. Joe Biden, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said in opposing the amendment, "I do not want to give the President and his lawyers any argument that Congress has somehow authorized military actions."

He is exactly right. Because as we learned with the original authorization of the Iraq war -- when you give this President a blank check, you can't be surprised when he cashes it.

I strongly differ with Sen. Hillary Clinton, who was the only Democratic presidential candidate to support this reckless amendment. We do need to tighten sanctions on the Iranian regime, particularly on Iran's Revolutionary Guard, which sponsors terrorism far beyond Iran's borders. But this must be done separately from any unnecessary saber-rattling about checking Iranian influence with our "military presence in Iraq." Above all, it must be done through tough and direct diplomacy with Iran, which I have supported, and which Sen. Clinton has called "naive and irresponsible."

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Sen.+Barack+Obama%3a+Five+years+after+Iraq+war+vote%2c+we%27re+still+foolishly+rattling+our+sabers&articleId=a41d44e5-0c56-4353-b9f6-5eda09c81236

Hence like Obama, Barbara Boxer cosponsored S. 970 and opposed Kyl-Lieberman because they were different bills but they aren't buying the Iran has no ill intentions line. And he didn't intentionally miss Kyl-Lieberman and quickly denounced its passage. Squares.

[TwilightZone]

6. Maybe I'm missing something. Didn't he co-sponsor a bill to name the IRG a terrorist org?

How is that any different?

[ccpup]

13. Senate Resolution 970

in mid-March. And, yes, it did basically the same thing that the Kyle-Lieberman Resolution did ... which he conveniently (a word I find myself typing a lot with regards to Obama) missed and yet has hung around Hillary's neck time and again.

Yes, he's got political courage alright. And just who IS advising him to miss these votes?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. More to the point, get his reaction to when Rice announced the formal IRG designation

It's hilarious. As of two weeks ago it was on his website. (Probably still is, but I don't know)

He openly supports the IRG designation... there's no mystery or controversy about it.

But his supporters lie, and lie and lie about it.

[TwilightZone]

19. Maybe he thinks people won't make the connection.

Pretty gutsy (or stupid) to criticize your opponent for a stance that you share. That would be like Hillary criticizing Edwards for his vote on the IWR.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

31. He has NEVER criticized Hillary for the IRG designation. Never.

He can't... it's his own position.

[TwilightZone]

33. So, he objects to the fact that she signed Kyl-Lieberman, but only means selected parts of it?

That seems rather convenient.

[sniffa]

7. oh dear

:rofl:

[sandnsea]

9. SHE said she agreed with Bush

and we had to "stay the course" to win in Iraq. She has done nothing but lie her whole way through this campaign. If SHE hadn't said this idiotic shit about Iraq during the 2004 election, the Democrats wouldn't have had a Bush-like war strategy at all.

[ccpup]

17. if SHE were the only one responsible

and not voting with a body of 99 other people, your saddling her with the sole responsibility for the Iraq War would make a whole hell of a lot more sense.

[Armstead]

27. She claims to have been a leader in everything

So it stands to reason that if she hadn't decided to go along with Bush on the IWR, she would have at least made the effort to bring others around.

She can't have it both ways, much as she might like to.

[ccpup]

28. as was recently said to me:

um, ok :shrug:

[BenDavid]

10. true test of courage is not to apoligize for her vote and hrc will not

nor should she. Hell, all you obama folks should take a look at obama's votes. Damn! You would swear he was voting exactly as HRC. Well since her name is called first in order then obama has voted with hrc in most every thing.

I agree that HRC has the experience but she also has the aptitude needed to be president. Obama in many of his answers reminds me so much of bush with its either my way or the highway. We do not need another dead brain president as bush is. The media told us all back in 2000 that bush did not need to be the smartest person in the room... He was so likable. The media now for over two months is telling us basically the same thing about obama. He is so likable that he does not need to be the smartest person in the room.

We need a president that is smart and has knowledge of not only domestic issues but foreign affairs as well. This is where HRC's aptitude comes in and outshines Obama in all areas needed to be president from day one....

[sniffa]

14. so Bush-like stubborness is a good thing?

that's just sad.

[ccpup]

21. if you're a BamaBot

it's ALL good ... but only when he does it. :evilgrin:

[sniffa]

24. um, ok

:shrug:

[BenDavid]

22. Stubborness can be good but wanting her to apologize as

edwards and then make her grovel that is a no no and that is all the left wanted for her to do. As HRC said, you get no do overs and I agree....

there is a hell of a difference in being stubborn and being a damn hard head as bush.....

[sniffa]

25. i guess that's a good spin

but i've had enough of that shit. i don't want any more of it.

[Armstead]

29. She should either apologize or explain why it was the right thing to do

She won't do either.

That's probably because she is smart enough to realize it was stupid, but too stubborn to admit it.

[zulchzulu]

36. Why should ANY Clinton ever admit that they made a mistake?

That's so...uh...honest. What a drag...

:sarcasm:

[ClarkUSA]

23. Right - and Bill was opposed to the Iraq war "from the beginning"

She is an Orwellian liar who is trying to deflect from her neocon votes for IWR and Kyl-Lieberman. It won't work. Iowans are
not stupid.

[sniffa]

26. it's fucking sickening

:puke:

[ClarkUSA]

30. There's a reason Cruella, er, Hillary has to have a "Likability Tour" ya know...

She and her surrogates and her swift boating campaign keeps saying lying stupid shit like this
which informed Iowans and NH voters knows is WTF?! BS. I can't imagine Iowans are pleased
with this sort of thing. How many Clinton precinct captains have quit her campaign to join
Obama by now, I wonder? ;-)

[Beacool]

43. Cruella? Then you won't mind if I call your candidate "Obambi" or "Empty suit", right?

What's good for the goose..........

[annie1]

34. ouch. that's kinda messed up. what is she referring to when she says...

"he said that he basically agreed with George Bush’s policy and conduct of the war." does anyone know?

b/c if she's talking about votes afterwards to continue to fund, that's not fair, b/c she also voted that way which would mean she too "agreed with GB policy and conduct"

anyone know what she is referrring to by the agreement statement?

[annie1]

35. Ok, i just want to say, i'm a Hil supporter, but i don't like her comparing Obama to Bush...

i think it's really nasty. granted, iirc did he do it as well? maybe, but i think the way she's doing it right now (and other times this week) is really ugly. :(. No likey. that sucks. It's one of the things i really dislike about her.

[Beacool]

45. Why not? I guess it's OK when Obama called her Bush-Lite?

Their records are almost identical, so it's disingenuous when he attacks her on her record.

[sniffa]

48. did he call her bush-lite?

i'm pretty sure that would be all over DU if he did.

[annie1]

49. In july and afterwards...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/27/us/politics/27clinton.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[creeksneakers2]

39. She's not saying she's better

She says Obama isn't telling the truth when he says he is better. Hillary says they both are the same.

[zulchzulu]

37. Obama voted to protect the troops due the war that Shrillery helped start

She has lost my support for her...ever. What a wench.

[creeksneakers2]

40. How much support for Hillary did you have before this? n/t

[Beacool]

44. Wench? Any other sexist comments from the Obama fans?