What if Sen Obama was ugly

[frankenforpres]

i like the guy, i liked his speech at the convention, i will vote for him if he is the nominee. All that being said, I don not understand the extreme passion if his followers. Im not seeing any proposal or plans that make me go crazy. Im going for the D candidate no matter what. but what i dont get on DU, is if someone says anything pro Hillary (albright) or against obabam (krugman) people attack them like obama is some untouchable figure.


so all i can think of is that people love his charisma and looks, not any real position. am i wrong?

[PakistaniDUer]

1. He'd lose terribly.

I hate to say how superficial elections have become in the US, but I think that may be the truth.

[Nailzberg]

68. I'd ask you to back that up, but I see you've been tombstoned.

[babylonsister]

2. Check this out, and hope is not lost ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=79054&mesg_id=79054

[ruggerson]

6. It's a fine speech

but tell me why he's running for President. "Healing the nation" and "bringing us together" make for good oratory, he crafts a fine speech.

But why is he running? To do what?

[babylonsister]

13. He wants to change the tone of this country.

Obama offers hope, maybe not to you because you are so eaten up with hate, but he is trying unlike anyone else.
He's a smart man with a plan to turn my country around. He's a rube, as you will again attest, but I do think his heart is in the right place.
I think he is a man who really wants to make a difference.
I think he will encourage other countries to come together and talk, I know he has some good foreign policy leaders, he's very smart, and I'm hopeful.
I long for someone different and he offers it to me.

[frankenforpres]

16. is he tough though

that is my biggest worry. i share some of krugmans feelings, though i wouldnt say negative things about the Ds outside of DU (since i will eventually support the nominee anyway)

[ruggerson]

19. lol

you just proved my point in post #14. Read it carefully.

I don't hate Obama, nor even immensely dislike him. I find things that he does to be intellectually dishonest and cynical.

Now, I understand that you have a lot of emotion wrapped up in him. Our disagreement about whether he is the best standard bearer for '08 doesn't mean that me or anyone else is "eaten up with hate." It's this kind of ad hominem hyperbole that accomplishes absolutely zilch.

Everything you've said here is great, but all you're doing is telling me how he makes you FEEL with his generalities. "He really wants to make a difference." "He's a smart man with a plan to turn my country around."

What does any of that mean? I don't buy that we will ever be a "united" country, we haven't been for two hundred years, so it isn't going to happen now.

Joe Biden wants to construct a very sophisticated, very focused foreign policy, based on his years and years of experience on the Foreign Relations Committee and his deep understanding of not only how the world works, but who the players are that make it happen.

John Edwards is driven by a lifelong desire to protect the little guy, the worker from the exploitation and cruelty of both the corporation and non caring government. He wants to make government work again for Main St, not just for those that park assets in the Bahamas.

What does Barack Obama want to do?

[babylonsister]

27. Nice post, but deceptive, when

you posted a post in GLBT to throw the Obama/McC into the forefront in GD/P for hours. Your questions are valid, but you're not kidding me. You have an innate hate that doesn't wash with me.
As for Biden and Edwards vs. Obama, do you read much? I will be searching for differences, but hope does mean a lot to me. Where's your hope, instead of bashing? Does Biden or Edwards satisfy you?

[ruggerson]

28. The Obama/McClurkin embarrassment should not be in GDP for hours

it should be there for weeks until Obama apologizes to a constituency that did not deserve to be treated that way.

And because I feel passionately that Obama was wrong to exploit hatred and bigotry and because I care about gay kids hanging themselves because of people like Donnie McClurkin, that makes me innately hateful?

I don't really follow your thought process. You are mad at me because I vocalize my anger at Barack Obama. But, you're not Barack Obama. I'm not angry with you. I'm angry at a public figure who runs a campaign putatively based on "hope" and "change" and then cynically exploits the hatred of gays and lesbians for political gain. Can't I, and others, be angry at him for doing that without you thinking that we're bad people?

As for Biden and Edwards, they are my number one and two. For the reasons I mentioned to you above. I can go into more specifics if you like, but I see those rationales at the heart of their candidacies.

I don't see any rationale for Barack Obama's candidacy other than a personality appeal: Barack Obama starring as the "hopeful" presidential candidate.

Perhaps you can give me a rationale for him that I will understand.

[babylonsister]

32. Have you written or asked Obama why he did what he did? Have you

taken any measures other than lambasting him?
I'm not angry at you, but at how far this has progressed on DU. Pitch a bitch to Obama if all the collective voices on DU are so angry, and then you might get a response. He's already responded by meeting with people about civil unions, but that's not good enough.
I think we have other people to slay than Barack Obama, and you know in your heart McC was not planned for the reaction I've seen on DU, which you've helped inspire.
Your hate will guide you, and that's sad.
And as I understand what happened, he hired McC to entertain, not for any political purposes.
He wasn't out 'to get' the gay community, though that's the way this was and still is relayed.

[ruggerson]

57. Absolutely

I called twice before and after the concert. I was told it was bad staff work, and the second time, when I asked why the campaign had let this prejudiced man MC the entire event, when beforehand they claimed he was just "one act", the person on the other end could only sputter.

Seems to me that most of you Obama supporters know, deep down, that we're right on this one. Which is why you get so angry with us. You can't get angry with him, because you have so much invested in him emotionally.

We, on the other hand, are not invested in him, so we can see him and his campaign in a very clear eyed manner. What he did was, in some measure, unforgivable for a Democratic candidate. I have hope that if he's our nominee, he will rise to be a better person. And if he becomes our President, I want him to find courage inside himself to do the right thing, regardless of political cost.

I don't hate the man. But I don't trust him at all.

[babylonsister]

81. Again, ruggerson, I'm not angry at you and think he

made a boneheaded, ill-advised decision to hire the guy.
I'm also sorry he's caused such ill will here, but no one is perfect. I just think he's the better electable candidate out of the Dems we have to choose from. And I have put a lot of trust in him because of that. I'm sorry he's angered so many that they can't see the streak of goodness and honor I see, and the hope that goes along with that-for me anyway.
This might all be moot in a few days, or not.
Thanks for your civility.

[jbnow]

30. I'm a bit confused

that you so easily identify why Edwards is running or feel sure of it and then can't apply similar thinking to Obama.

Well first I don't think we talk a lot about Biden or Dodd and so on because by now it's clear they have no chance. It's funny that the top tier are the least experienced in the group, but so it goes.

Now Edwards...you might be right but people could also see his career as a slick lawyer getting rich, getting a big percentage of those awards pays big. Whatever they say about that kind of lawyer...though some are surely motivated by just what you say.

But if you are willing to see it as a good light what do you make of Obama's career choices before politics? He was a community activist and organizer before and after Harvard law school...refusing much higher paying jobs to do so. Especially having been the Harvard Law Review president anything was open to him but he returned to Chicago and joined Miner's Chicago civil rights firm.

When he was elected to the state congress he continued to work there in summer when congress wasn't in session and didn't take pay for summer work.

Oh...and he was teaching Constitutional Law and asked to continue that once elected he held the class on Friday nights and early Monday mornings. The class was always full, he was well loved. A local paper reviewed his student evaluations for the decade he taght and only one professor got higher ratings there.
Students really stressed that they weren't just talked at but listened to...he helped them see things in new ways.

So what could we draw from all that? Seems like a lifelong desire to empower the little guys to pull themselves up, to help others learn to do the same thing, to draw people together to bring change. With his thorough knowledge and deep respect for Constitutional law he wants to also bring America back...
and so on.
The choice of work that mattered to him over high paying jobs is all the more impressive because he isn't wealthy.
Well a little wealthy now. CNN or someone made a list of cadidates financial worth. Obama was worth about a million...putting him last of the candidates in either party.

I researched the candidates as well as i could early on and much of this was from memory...but so you don't have to take my word for any of it...

An article (from 95) that describes much of his community activist work
What Makes Obama Run?
About his legal work
Obama got start in civil rights practice
teaching
Professor Obama was a listener, students say
Law students gave Obama big thumbs-up

Oh...if he was really ugly he wouldn't get far in politics. That's not because his looks are his main qualification...but because ugly people rarely get far in politics. How about an ugly Hillary or Edwards? Looks didn't hurt JFK.

Added to this his antiwar view before the war started and before it was popular to be against it...it could certainly be argued he has shown the most dedication to the cause of the people of all the candidates.

[babylonsister]

45. Great post, jbnow. Thanks for that. nt

[frankenforpres]

10. yeah, i dont know

i want a tough D to fight, this healing goal, i dont get it.

he has my vote if he wins, im not in an early state, so i dont have much say in the primary. i wish the guy well, even if he loses, he will be a force in the party.

[Egnever]

3. Yep your wrong

I like him for his plan to open government up to public scrutiny.

And I think he looks sort of freakish actually.

[ruggerson]

4. He's calm and methodical

I understand who he is on a biographical and generational level.

But I still don't know why he's running for President.

[1corona4u]

5. Uh, to some of us, he is.....

but that's irrelevant, isn't it?

PS. I also think JE is ugly as well. But some people like the boyish looks.

[BeyondGeography]

7. There's plenty you don't know...you should start here

and then work your way up.

[maxanne]

8. ah

but he gets away with having those enormous dumbo ears - while Dennis Kucinich is crucified for his ears - which don't flap half as much as Obama's.

We are indeed a superficial people.

[sandnsea]

9. I always attack lies and liars n/t

[frankenforpres]

11. will obama attack liars

i would love it if he would


that is why i am a huge fan of al franken

[Forkboy]

12. I agree, but do you only see Obama supporters acting that way?

but what i dont get on DU, is if someone says anything pro Hillary (albright) or against obabam (krugman) people attack them like obama is some untouchable figure.

[ruggerson]

14. What I see

is that when you "attack" a candidate, who is a public figure (presumably exactly the type of discussion this board was created for), the backers of that candidate attack YOU. They don't much try to respond to the debate presented them, they just turn it into an ad hominem flamefest. Which, of course, one is obliged to respond to... and the cycle repeats itself...

[Forkboy]

21. Well yeah, there's that.

But I worry about anyone who sees this only coming from one camp and not seeing it in others. The Hillary and Obama camps are clearly insane, and the rest aren't far behind. ;)

And the very question of what constitutes an attack would be hotly debated (If I was the thread starting type I'd bring that up. :) ).

Seriously, there's no limits to what people are posting now, and to think it only comes from one side or the other is laughable. Your point is all too true, but I'm curious if the OP sees this everywhere, or just against Hillary. I have no use for people who see the attacks from only one corner.

[ruggerson]

23. I agree

I think it's coming from both sides. Being one who has criticized Obama vociferously, but is not supporting Clinton, I have seen firsthand the kneejerk reaction by some of the Obama admirers, who seem to think that everyone and everything that challenges their man must originate with Hillary. So I'm oversensitized to that, because it's happened to me and many others so many times that you begin to feel like you're traveling through a Ken Kesey novel.

Note post #19 above. I ask a question about what motivates Obama and I'm told I'm "eaten up with hate." :) As you know, some of my major objections to Obama's candidacy have been over what I perceive to be his pandering to hatemongers. In expressing that sentiment, I and many others here have received, in return, ad hominem derision and tons of personal attacks. Now this is a political message board. Shit happens. And if someone goes ad hom with me, I'll bite back. But, from my experience, one group of supporters does it with almost gleeful venom and hatred. Which is odd, since their candidate is supposedly the one riding on "hope."

I agree that there is an equal amount of ad hominem silliness coming from the Clinton camp. But it doesn't seem to be so personally and venomously directed at one group of DU'ers. IT's kind of random and childish.

Just my own personal perceptions.

[wiley]

29. With regards to appearance and looks, the American people

are wildly superficial. The incredibly hateful and negative superficial garbage that will be thrown at any Democratic candidate will disgust everyone on this board soon enough. This will be very painful for us all.

[sniffa]

58. The Gravelites are the worst

[wisteria]

15. It is all in the media spin. n/t

[global1]

17. If Sen. Obama Was Ugly - His Butter Sculpture Would Be Uglier.....nt.

[TeamJordan23]

18. I doubt thousands have donated money to him just because of his looks.

He is a brilliant man. One that provides us hope. And one that will run government with a differnt outlook.

[NYCGirl]

20. Hundreds of thousands. NT

[PakistaniDUer]

22. This is not an insult to him or to his supporters as a whole

But the fact is that american politics is very superficial and I've met obama supportres who support him due to his speaking ability or looks; most i've met of his are like that and that's not scientific but just stating my opinion.

[JeffR]

24. Welcome, PakistaniDUer

and you raise a good point. American politics can be very superficial, on DU and elsewhere. But there are advocates for various candidates here who can do a very good job justifying their enthusiasm for their candidate. There's an awful lot to read in this forum. Sadly, some of it is trash. I don't say this with regard to this thread, by the way.

[Beausoir]

25. His pandering to the anti-gay crowd is pretty ugly..

I wish he had not done that.

If he is the eventual nominee...how am I supposed to vote for him? After the way he threw gay people under the bus??

It's a deal breaker for me.

I WANT to like him. But his gay-bash southern tour really soured me on him.

[frankenforpres]

26. was it really a gay bash?

do the other Ds support gay marriage?


i do support gay marriage, but i didnt think Obama was out of line with the other candidates. didnt hillary support DOMA? i might be wrong about that


i get that obama toured with some guy that is opposed to gay marriage, but what if toured with someone that was pro life, but the tour wasnt about abortion rights?


did obama say he agreed with donnie? im out of the loop on this one, because there was too much fighting in the threads, so i didnt read them

[melody]

31. Actually, he's kind of plain-looking to me

Very Ken doll-esque. I wouldn't hold that against him, though.

[pgh_dem]

33. If Dennis Kucinich looked like Brad Pitt

I'd like to say he'd win the presidency hands-down, but somebody would be giving him shit about his acne scars, and saying that he played crazy too well in Fight Club and 12 Monkeys.

But it doesn't hurt Sen Obama that he's good-looking, with a strong voice, and dances like he enjoys music. It makes him cool in ways that political attacks and his own policy positions can't touch.

Important pre-emptive 'have a beer' note: anybody who wanted to 'have a beer' with George W Bush was FUCKING STUPID. He's an ALCOHOLIC. He will have TWENTY-FOUR BEERS with you and throw up on your shoes after trying to have sex with your significant other, missing terribly and mating with your rolling carry-on at the airport TGI Friday's. It's a DISEASE. It's like thinking it would be fun to party with Tom Sizemore.

[Jane Austin]

34. His looks aren't that great.

He has big ears, a big nose and his lips are kind of purple.

But that smile, and those intelligent eyes!

Lord a mussy, that brings it all together in the most attractive way.

[dailykoff]

35. He gets major points for being swiftboated and handling it well

at least IMHO.

[FrenchieCat]

36. Well, come to think of it, no one in politics is all that good looking.....

But....what Obama's actually got is not really his "Looks"......it's his entire demeanor/carriage/mannerism/confidence/persona...something much harder to beat than simply the right features in the right places. That's why they call it "charisma" instead.

For all of the talk about "good looks" ...what Obama's got can't be bought or even manufactured; not even the right haircuts, the right husband/wife, the right hair color, the right hair plugs, the right dental work, or the right advisors will give one what Obama's got; and he's got plenty.

So yes, at the end of the day....Charisma is priceless.

[Beacool]

37. Is he supposed to be good looking?

He doesn't do a damn thing for me. Edwards and Romney are IMO the best looking men in the running. :shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

38. Edwards and Romney are what this society depicts to be good looking....

but they both lack what Obama's got....unfortunately for them.

[Little Star]

41. JRE is my choice.

I think that he is average looking. Who ever said that he was movie star quality? Now, they have said that about Obama. Please link (even if it is only on DU) to where people have been swooning over his looks. He's not even much taller than Kucinich fer cripes sake.

[Beacool]

84. His race is not why I don't think of him as handsome.

To me he's just a skinny guy with purple lips and oversized ears. Now, if were talking about Denzel Washington, Sidney Poitier and Harry Belafonte, then that would be quite another story.

[Perry Logan]

39. He seems to attract enthusiastic young people who never had a civics class.

[SoxFan]

44. Nice bit of snark

Explain me, then.

I'm not particularly young anymore (40).

I've got a law degree and some graduate level coursework in Urban Studies.

I've been elected to the state legislature, city council, and municipal budget committee, so I think I have a pretty good grasp of civic life.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. He Is A Good Looking Man And Definitely Has Charisma

Where do you think he would be without those assets?

[Seabiscuit]

42. If Kucinich had Obama's looks and "charisma", would more people vote for him?

I think so.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. Probably

John Edwards has appropriated much of Kucinich's message and he's doing well...

[SoxFan]

43. What if Edwards were bald?

What if Hillary were married to an accountant from Winnetka?

What if Romney and Dodd weren't second-generation politicians?

What if Giuliani had been out of office on 9/11?

To quote the Great Hooded One, it is what it is.

[mtnsnake]

48. I think he IS bald. Those so-called $400 hairdos are just to cover up that he wears a rug

Ever notice how every hair is always in the same exact spot? The hair on the sides of his head might be real but that's about it :evilgrin:

[mtnsnake]

46. Obama is good looking? I suppose you think Dodd is hot, too. lol

[MethuenProgressive]

47. If Bill Richardson was buff, he'd be ahead in New Hampshire and Iowa.

The above is a statement just as ridiculous as the OP.

[DemKR]

49. obama will have a tough time in the general

[mtnsnake]

50. If only Obama had Harold Ford's good looks he might be our first African American president

since looks seem to be so important in these presidential races.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

51. Harold Ford is homophobic filth

Just for the record.

[mtnsnake]

52. No need for you to be so bitter just because Ford is handsome & Obama isn't

Just for the record.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

53. Just for the record, I'm not bitter

I was just stating a fact.

[mtnsnake]

54. I'm glad to hear that.

'tis the season to be jolly, right? :shrug:

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

55. Did I say I was jolly?

Homophobia doesn't make me jolly, personally.

[mtnsnake]

59. Of course not. I said 'tis the season to be jolly.

Did I not?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. That May Or Not Be True But He Is An Extremely Good Looking Man

I suspect if he went into a club heads would literally turn...

[mtnsnake]

62. Are you kiddin me? You really think Obama is extremely good looking?

Yikes, DSB, you need to get out more often!

I suspect if he went into a club heads would literally turn...

Well of course heads would turn, but not because of his looks. He'd turn those heads because, like Hillary, he's a rock star.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Harold Ford Is An Extremely Good Looking Man

That's who I was referring to...

Barack Obama is a nice looking man too...

[mtnsnake]

67. ahh, thanks for the clarity

lol, I thought you meant it the other way around. :)

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

63. It may be true, and it is true

He was using homophobic rhetoric during his failed Senate campaign. Emphasize that he was "normal" because he liked football and pretty girls. Trying to appear as least gay-friendly and hostile to gay rights as possible. He also made a big stink about a New York state supreme court decision that will eventually lead to gay marriage, acting like it was the end of the world. More like, none of his fucking business.

[ruggerson]

64. Shhh... if you speak up against hatemongering, then you're, uh... "full of hate"

according to the logic around these parts.

[mtnsnake]

70. c'mon now

Nobody around here said that, especially not me. The Harold Ford comparison was only a looks-wise comparison on my part and nothing else. Go back and read the entire sub-thread.

[ruggerson]

74. I wasn't referring to you in the least

read the entire thread.

[mtnsnake]

76. Thanks

It came off that way in the subthread.

[ruggerson]

78. Sorry

didn't mean it to

[mtnsnake]

79. No problem my friend

:hi:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. We Just Said He Is An Extremely, Extremely Good Looking Man

We didn't say we would vote for him...

[ruggerson]

77. Not being in Tennessee

I haven't done my research on Harold Ford, but I do know he brings the bible and Jeebus into almost every thing he utters. Which always raises my hackles a bit. I much prefer politicians who keep their mouths shut about their spirituality, but, sadly, those seem to be a dying breed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. He Pandered To The Right Wing To Get Elected...

I guess a person can dislike him for that...

[mtnsnake]

83. I'm not saying he did or didn't, but in Tennessee, who the heck wouldn't consider it?

Even in the upcoming general election, whoever gets our nod will be accused of doing the same thing by some people, when in reality that candidate will be only pandering to the middle to get his or herself elected. There isn't a candidate on either side of the fence who won't be pandering toward the other side, once they're in the General Election, to get themeselves into the WH.

[Catherine Vincent]

86. Harold Ford is good looking but he comes across as knowing it, so that makes him not so good looking

:)

[Didereaux]

60. Oprah wouldn't have endorsed him!

[sniffa]

66. What if Hillary hadn't married William Jefferson?

[Didereaux]

69. She would STILL have become a political force. n/t

[NYCGirl]

71. And what if someone like, maybe, Gennifer Flowers had married Wm. Jefferson?

Would she be running for president today? Just think of it — a US President who can moonlight as a lounge singer!


:sarcasm:

Edited to add sarcasm tag because you never know in here these days.

[sniffa]

75. nah, Paula Jones is more like it

:P

[mtnsnake]

72. Then we might have had our first woman president in 1992. nt

[Colobo]

82. Of course not.

[rasputin1952]

85. Looking back to before the television age...

and even after it began, most of our presidents weren't exactly what one might call "photogenic", and certainly not much to look at.

Some of our best presidents weren't exactly off the frontpage of GQ. Lincoln...good lord, if going by looks counted back then, he'd be lucky to be elected dog-catcher or noxious weed constable, (it is also stated that he had a high pitched voice).

TR was no great looker. George Washington, Millard Fillmore, Rutherford B. Hayes, Zachary Taylor, Andrew Johnson, John Quincy Adams...eek.

A lot of dud presidents weren't on the "handsome" side either. Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Andrew Johnson, a whole basketful were what most would call "homely" at best.

Then again, I never heard Nixon, Eisenhower, LBJ, GHWB or bush called anything near, "adorable", so TV might not matter all that much. (Fact is, for me at least, when bush gets on TV, I actually get nauseous).