I think if Obama wins the nomination he could do really well in the GE for the whole party....

[annie1]

even if he runs against mccain.

A number of pubs might find mccain too liberal on a few issues, so those who are very right-wing not having to vote against hillary might stay home, esp if Barack is doing well in the polls and they won't feel the need to come out. Plus there won't be the general anti-hil movement motivating pubs and haters to come out, and the youth vote might come out for barack, most of whom are democrats, and then we can fill the congress with dems and a dem prez. Wow, that might be nice! (well, all except i'm not particularly into barack, but that's just my personal problem). Then we could get things back where we want 'em. Hmmmmmm.

[The Traveler]

1. Hard to predict

Whoever runs in the GE, they will be greeted by the best lubricated propaganda machine in American history, the same machine that convinces people that cowards are tough and war heroes are weak. I think any of our candidates have what it takes to deal with that, and so I think all have at least a reasonable shot at winning the general election.

[MadBadger]

2. Obama appeals to many Independents

Thats why I think he could be such an effective GE candidate.

[aquart]

3. "Even if"?

What bizarre mental quirk makes you consider McCain a viable candidate? The Republicans are only resurrecting him because, compared to their other choices, he's beginning to look good. BUT HE DOESN'T LOOK GOOD. Remove the other Republicans, and McCain will look as terrible as he seemed before the others announced their candidacies.

[annie1]

4. i think he's viable. but maybe that's just my fear. any of our guys could beat romney or huck.

but i think he's viable. people like him. thompson is just about to throw his support to him. giuliani is about to bite the dust. people think huck is odd, and so many don't like romney.

[aquart]

17. 72. Ronnie the Perfect had Alzheimers. McCain is 72. 76 in 4 years.

I hear his mom's alive. BUT HIS FATHER ISN'T.

[Capn Sunshine]

14. don't misunderestimate McCain

we did that to someone that was a fucking joke in 00 and 04, and the world ended up half destroyed because we gave ourselves too much credit

[Anouka]

5. I don't know.

To be honest, I think he'll be assassinated or Mondaled. I worry for him.

A lot of people talk b.s. about 'rethug' this and 'rethug' that, and yet magically those considerations disappear when thinking about Obama as the nominee. Half the country has voted for Republicans since JFK at least; races have always down to the wire when it comes to the popular vote. That's where the humiliation of Mondale and the electoral votes comes in.

Will people really vote for Obama? He has an uphill battle over hurdles that an Edwards and a Biden and even a Richardson and a Hillary don't have to overcome.

All of that, and Republicans will vote for their own party in spite of who is on the ticket in the exact same way Democrats here and elsewhere in the blogosphere swear they will vote for whoever is on the ticket as a Democrat -- because party unity is supposed to matter that much.

How would Obama garner those independents and Republicans? What does Obama offer that would make Republicans say that they are not willing to hold their nose to vote for the party if not the candidate?

and how can Obama do so in a way which does not alienate Democrats?

I don't know the answer to that. I do think that we can't have it both ways. What is reality in America?

Also, how divided is America by irrational but deeply held 'I will never for's? (I speak partly for myself here. I have a 'will never vote for' Romney not because of his party but because he's a Mormon. It's irrational and prejudicial, but there it is.)

I'd love for Obama to be the nominee. I think it'd be fantastic. But I also don't get my hopes up that America has moved forward anywhere close to what folks will say in public. Just my opinion.

[annie1]

7. I promise you he won't be ...

assassinated. :). My neighbor feared that too, but i don't think that's in the cards. Hil's more likely to get hurt than he is imo. He doesn't have the substance to warrant it. He's no tupac, he's no Biggie.

As far as all the change, no, i don't think anyone can bet on that, but at very best we know there is an anti-hil vote, and that would be eliminated, and as long as we put up a young smooth guy, who is quick like he is, we'll do better than we have, and it's all in the cards for dems, cuz people are sick of the war and hate what we have now. so at very least, we can gain seats and a prez. :). and that's huge. The only loss that surprised me in the last 34 years since i've been alive was Gore's, all other democrats we're obviously going to lose. If Barack wins the nom, he'll get the GE. if Hil wins the nom, mmmm, MAYBE, maybe, maybe, the GE. edwards, no idea.

[jillan]

6. I hope you are right annie!

No matter who wins the nomination, I hope they will do well in the GE. I can't handle another term of R's in control.

[mahina]

8. Your lips

to God's ears, thanks Annie.

[FrenchieCat]

9. Of course he would do well, especially against McCain....

Obama is young, McCain is old
Obama is articulate, McCain actually is not
The Press will have to "careful" in how they report the race, and they will.
New voters coming out of the woodworks to vote for Obama
Obama is not constrained with Public Financing. He'll have to dough to stick it to McCain
Obama is Charismatic, McCain is not.
Obama was right about Iraq, McCain was not.

McCain is yesterday, Obama is now! :patriot:

[whirlygigspin]

10. strange choice of words

doing well in a GE ?

there's only one thing any candidate should do in a GE

and PLACE or SHOW doesn't count in that one

ask Al Gore

[FrenchieCat]

23. I stand corrected!

Obama will kick McCain's ass!

How's that? :)

[BringBigDogBack]

11. I think so too

he'll be able to turn out new voters as well

[annie1]

30. and even these guys....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3934207&mesg_id=3934207

pubs. :O.

that would be wild. i look forward to new polling in january if the Obama wins iowa.

[GreenTea]

12. Man, you live in a dream world...you must live in a large blue state city.

[annie1]

13. what's dream like about...

thinking an intelligent young democrat can beat a republican? and that it's already been shown in polls dems will pick up seats this year? and if you're going to say it's because he's black, don't bother answering, b/c honestly, all polls show people don't have a problem with electing a black president, he's as electable as anyone.

[annie1]

15. but on the other hand, if you believe hil can..

beat a pub, and that in some way the anti-hil vote will be less than any anti-dem or anti-barak vote, let me know, cuz that would be some good news i'd like to hear!

[GreenTea]

16. Just not in the cards for a underlining racist country...Oh they'll all say differently in public

and in polls and talking to ones face......

Obama is moderate far too moderate for me being a liberal FDR progressive as I am...and still, Obama will never be the Dem presidential nominee, (maybe VP, but doubtful)....even ole Huckcleberry (Huckabee) would whip his ass Republicans would come out in droves and vote against a black man being president of THEIR country as they see it, racist who never voted in their lives will come out to vote against a black man for president....an African-American first lady forget it, man, get real, many moderates would find any way to justify voting against a black man for president....I know many, many democrats as well who are just as racist when they get behind the curtain just won't vote for a African-American for president, there are millions of Dems who would find any excuse to vote for any candidate other than an African-American which would normally make Edwards even more attractive to them, but the republicans DO NOT WANT EDWARDS as the Dem nominee...The republicans would cream in their jeans if the Dems nominated a black many....they KNOW their voters absolutely turn out in droves....to them it's like have Al Sharpton or even Martin Luther King as president and no way can they handle that.

The republicans and their corporate owned media are firmly in control of the Dem prez races and outcomes as we mostly get only the two candidates they push night after night...and the republicans want Hillary, a women, they know they aren't going to get Obama whom the republicans also know would be a huge dividing rod.....The republicans are working hard to keep it a battle between Hillary & Obama...Hillary, she be woman and Obama, he be black man (in the small state party primaries it looks close (pushed by the right-wing owned media) but in a national general presidential election fucking forget it ....with Hillary winning, because even racist Dems would rather see a woman win then a black man....All the while keeping Edwards down never rising above third....that's the republican plan and they ALWAYS get what they want!!!

[aquart]

18. You know, too much caffeine can bring on paranoid episodes.

You might want to cut back.

[GreenTea]

20. Your ignorance is only superseded by the absolute idiocy of your post!

Learn something moderate! If only fucking moderates were not such fence-sitters, wishy-washy, middle of the road clowns, which ever way the wind blows, stupid as only fucking moderates can be!

[annie1]

19. lol. well alrighty then!

[GreenTea]

21. So Annie old dude, tell me what city do you live in?

[annie1]

22. A big fat blue city state. but i still watch politics every year. and i've lived in...

the south. good times.

[GreenTea]

24. just as I called it....You live in a dream world dude....I bet I can guess how much you make as well

Nice secure job and all....And all your friends you believe are liberals....Too fucking easy of a call!

[annie1]

25. ahhh, false, and false again. : ). Put down the coffee cup.

[GreenTea]

26. I'm from liberal San Francisco....

born and raised....and I know what an African-American would have to go through to even get on the ballot as VP....This isn't a football game we are talking about here....

[MrSlayer]

28. I live in a large blue state city and hear nothing but vile epithets.

Against both Obama and Clinton. The "pie in the sky" crowd is going to be very dismayed when faced with a President Romney, who is quite possibly dumber than Bush, or a President Giuliani, who is even more power hungry than Dick Cheney. I think a lot of people on this site do not understand just how racist this country still is. It's just not as out in the open as it used to be. To unabashedly proclaim that you will not vote for an African-American or a woman is not acceptable in polite society. But people are alone in the voting booth. Polite society is not the real world.

With that said I do have Crow on my menu. I would be delighted to have an "all you can eat" special next November because that would mean the American people are far better than I give them credit for.

[readmoreoften]

27. Obama is only popular with the GOP because he gives into them. If he wins, we lose.

I don't want a repeat of the goddamn Pelosi congress. I want know where my candidate stands. You want to unite the country? Fix America and bipartisan support will happen naturally. Enough with the pandering.

[killbotfactory]

29. Yeah, that's all he does. He gives in.

He panders and give in. Just like how he voted for the Iraq war, or at least he would have if he was in the Senate at the time, I just know it. I just don't trust anyone who can get independents and republicans to vote for them.

[thoughtcrime1984]

31. False

Enough with the lies.

[Little Star]

35. Yeah, lets go along to get along. Right!

:sarcasm: That is not change. It is the status Quo.

[IndianaJones]

32. A sizeable percentage of Democrats will not vote for an African American. nt.

[annie1]

33. and a sizable abouit won't vote for a woman, and won't vote for Hillary even if they would vote for

a woman. or wouldn't vote for kerry, or wouldn't drag their lazy asses to the polls and vote for a white man. Look at how many people are going out to caucus in IA. record amounts are claiming they will get there. dems and independents.

[IronLionZion]

34. There are people who will publicly express support for Barack, but in private

they will just pull the lever for McCain. Just because it isn't PC to be openly racist, doesn't mean there isn't that subconscious urge to stick with what is familiar or someone who looks like you.

I'll admit it. The only big name politician who might look like me is Bobby Jindal of Louisiana. Although I oppose all that he stands for, I still did a little happy dance when he won...because it feels good to have an Indian-American in the governor's mansion.

[annie1]

36. when someone gets a call on the phone and the question is...

"if the nominees are mccain and obama who would you vote for", they're not saying "obama" b/c they don't want to show they're racist. they could easily knee-jerk say "mccain".

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[babylonsister]

37. I think McCain loses because he's been a supporter of this illegal

occupation; that's a very distinct difference between the two and there are many people who will take this into consideration.

[Flabbergasted]

38. kick