Quixote1818
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:46 PM
Original message |
If Obama is getting the independent vote how on earth will he be easy to beat? |
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Someone explain that one to me. :shrug:
Seems he is the Republican's worst nightmare! He is going to bring the Blacks out in record numbers. He is going to bring the youth out in record numbers and he is going to pick up the independents. It sounds like Obama is the perfect storm this year. Bigots either don't vote or vote Republican anyway so I think that problem will be minor.
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TwilightZone
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message |
1. If recent party affiliation numbers are accurate, and independents are leaning Democratic... |
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Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 11:49 PM by TwilightZone
any of our candidates should win as the nominee in November, assuming there isn't some monumental shift in voter intent.
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bellasgrams
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1 |
30. I think there are Repbs and Indps. that will vote on Obama in |
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the primary because he is there only hope of possibly winning the general.
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TwilightGardener
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message |
2. He's their worst nightmare. |
silverojo
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
13. Second-worst nightmare |
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Edwards is THE worst nightmare, which is why the MSM is trying to ignore him out of existence. When it comes to big pharma or corporations or insurance companies, Edwards won't even take MONEY from them, so you know he won't take any SHIT off them. :D
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jlake
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message |
3. Because the Republicans will attack him and tear him to shreds |
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Then the independents won't bee so keen on him.
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Occam Bandage
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
5. It's a good thing that Hillary doesn't have any negatives. |
jlake
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. They are known and quantifiable....and she will FIGHT back. |
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All Obama will do is whine and complain he is being attacked....which has worked against opponents in the primary, but certainly won't work with the GOP.
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Occam Bandage
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
8. Judging by the fact that he managed to get Hillary's numbers to sink like rocks |
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whenever she tried to go on the offensive, I'm feeling pretty confident in his ability to outmaneuver negative campaigning.
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jlake
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. There has been NO negative campaigning in this primary compared to |
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what the GOP will do with 24/7 MSM attacks on Obama.....everything Hillary has HINTED about will be harped on repeatedly, Muslim, Madrasa, Cocaine, etc etc + plenty of new allegations.
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Occam Bandage
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
14. Hm. So would you say that's because Hillary doesn't have the skill to take down a weak opponent, |
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or does she not have the courage to fight hard?
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
21. I'd say that it is because ALL of our candidates are decent enough |
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not to critically damage one another for the good of the party and the nation.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #21 |
24. So how exactly is it in the nation's interest |
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not to take down a candidate who is dangerously ill-suited for the general election? If Barack Obama is as weak as you say he is, it is absolutely in her interest, the party's interest, and America's interest to air his weaknesses and let Dems decide if they want to go through with nominating him. But yet she doesn't. Why is that?
I can answer that. It's not "decency," because that has no place in presidential politics. It's because she knows that if she hits him on that, he'll be able to engineer a backlash that will destroy her.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
32. I am pretty sure that Hillary will still pull this one out....without having |
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to resort to extreme tactics. Mutual destruction is not good for the party....just look at the last Primary for CA governor....we should have beaten Arnold, but the candidates destroyed each other in the primary.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
35. So she hasn't destroyed the incredibly weak Obama because she thinks |
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Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 12:12 AM by Occam Bandage
that Obama is not a credible threat, and that she'll still win it regardless of what he does? Judging by the polling in NH and SC, I'd have some doubts as to her judgement if I believed what you're saying.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #35 |
44. I never said that Obama was incredibly weak - or weak at all 0 or that was |
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her strategy....not sure where you are getting this from... I think that Hillary is in a very tough race that she did not expect. I do think she will win though.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #44 |
46. Since you're saying the Republicans will be able to tear him to shreds, you did. |
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And she's in a tough race, you admit. So either:
1. She doesn't see that she's in a bind, and she has terrible judgement. 2. She isn't able to tear down Obama, and she's an awful campaigner. 3. She isn't willing to tear down Obama, in which case she has no business being let near a GE. 4. She has been trying to tear him down, and he's outmaneuvered her.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #46 |
53. Well, thanks for the limited possiblities that it could be.... |
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For the record, I am not a huge Hillary supporter. Since it is clear that it is between Hillary and Obama, I fully support her because I feel that an Obama nomination will be suicide for the party.
I think she was expecting to walk into being the nominee. I think she is surprised at how the press has given only positive coverage to Obama and is building him up....it is really hard to work against the MSM If they were fair, and informed people we would not be having this discussion because President Gore would be finishing his 2nd term. I think that the first part and second part of your # possibilites are seperate. You are counting your chicks before the eggs have hatched. We won't know if Obama has outmaneuvered her until one of them wins.
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Thrill
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #53 |
69. The Republicans have been gearing up 10 yrs to run against Hilary |
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They want her with a Passion.
Romney said himself today. "I can't wait to go against Hilary"
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jlake
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Tue Jan-08-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #69 |
71. Some people never learn........ |
Quixote1818
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
15. Well, they better be careful or they might end up in Don Imus's position |
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Those kind of attacks will totally come back and bight them in the ass. Not to mention FOX has already hit him with all that.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #15 |
23. If you believe that. I think Imus was only taken down because he |
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of his disdain for some of Bush's policies.....I hear much worse from other RW yakkers from just clicking by their shows on a regular basis. The MSM is building Obama up so they can tear him down.....and they will.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
26. So Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson pushed the issue to defend Bush? Interesting theory. |
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And by 'interesting,' I mean 'fucking insane.'
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chascarrillo
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
28. MSM. It's the "neocon" of 2006. |
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Yeah, it's a couple years out of date, but eh...
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
34. No, but they do all kinds of protesting....but does it get coverage. |
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Seriously think about this: If Obama truly represents organic, democratic change then why is the MSM giving him so much coverage. They could black him out and crush his chances....it is all in what is covered and what is not.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
39. So do you believe Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are stupid pawns of "the MSM?" I think |
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after as long as they've been in politics, and with as many public-perception battles as they've fought, they're smarter than that.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #39 |
45. No, I think that they did what the do on a regular basis. The reason |
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that it was a huge media event was because certain people did not like some of the other things Imus was saying. ie if Rush Limbaugh had said the same thing it would have been a non-event.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #45 |
50. So what, they're robots now? Do you really think |
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that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are not able to see what is going on around them? You really think they would willingly join in some right-wing conspiracy to take down a minor Bush critic because they were just "doing what they do?"
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #50 |
55. No, I do not think it was a "conspiracy" |
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and you are being daft if you do not understand my point. Do you think that rush limbaugh would have lost his job if he said the same things - honestly?????
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #55 |
57. No, because he doesn't run on MSNBC. He runs on stations that only appeal |
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to right-wingers, and so pressure campaigns wouldn't work to get him off air.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #57 |
60. Okay, fair enough....Glen Beck on CNN. |
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and btw he has already said MUCH worse things about homosexuals and he still has his job.
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chascarrillo
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
42. Maybe the MSM wants change? |
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Do you have nightmares where the MSM leaps out of your closet? Geez.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
48. Why would they want a progressive who might challenge their monopolies? |
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The media has always hated the Clintons -- and they would just as surely hate Obama if he were president.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #48 |
52. Man, one day he's a conservative sellout and an MSM darling, |
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the next he's a progressive liberal who's going to get destroyed by the MSM. I sure wish Straw Barack Obama would have some consistency.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #52 |
56. No, I think he is a conservative.....my question is why would they |
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want a progressive....hmmmm.......maybe the reason he is so vague on "hope" and "change" is because he does not really offer any.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #56 |
59. So if he's a conservative offering no change, why would the MSM want to destroy him? |
jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #59 |
62. I could ask the same about how so many Obama supporters call Hillary |
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a Republican lite and then say the media will destroy her....
Because they are setting up a win/win Corporate Whore Obama or Corporate Whore Generic Republican.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #62 |
64. They're being disingenuous. Hillary is a pretty good Democrat. |
jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #64 |
66. That is very fair of you to say. |
Quixote1818
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
9. Obama has responded to every Clinton attack |
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He usually turns the attack around and turns it into a strength.
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jlake
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
12. if you think he has been attacked, then you have no idea what our nominee |
Occam Bandage
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
16. If you think they'll attack him on islam/madrassas, you have no idea how they operate. |
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Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 12:00 AM by Occam Bandage
They don't attack us on our weaknesses so much as they attack us on our strengths. The swiftboaters aren't freepers; you don't give them nearly enough credit. They'll be taking his inspirational speaking style, and spinning that as fluff to cover inexperience and incompetence on policy. And he'll be ready for that; Clinton is already immunizing him.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
25. Sort of. They will attack him on all of it. |
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Muslim Scare good for - 35% of vote. Inexperience good for - 20% He loses.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
29. Ah, The Math. Here, let me adjust your figures. |
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Hope good for - 50% of vote. Change good for - 50% of vote. Blackness good for - 50% of vote. Name useful in scrabble good for - 50% of vote
He wins so hard, they let him be President of Canada too.
:eyes:
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
38. Mock if you want, but I believe what I posted. |
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I am glad that you have faith he can pull it off....once the msm turns on him it will be an uphill battle. I find it incredibly hard to believe that Independent voters will go with Obama.....but maybe he can get enough youth and new black voters....
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #38 |
41. "I find it incredibly hard to believe that Independent voters will go with Obama" |
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Why, you don't believe the polling that shows him with the highest independent appeal of any candidate of either party? You didn't see how he captured an overwhelming plurality of independent voters in Iowa, and is projected to do so again in New Hampshire?
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #41 |
49. You cannot poll what will happen in the GE. |
Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #49 |
51. LOL. Funny how polls are always "invalid" when they disprove your claims as to people's mindsets. |
jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #51 |
58. No, I do not play that partisan game. |
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I know what the polls show now. I am telling you what I feel in the GE. Joe Biden, whom I originally supported polled very poorly because he had virtually no name recognition. I feel that if he were our nominee he would have won by a landslide.....but I cannot show any polls that say this because none were even taken.
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Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #58 |
61. "but I cannot show any polls that say this because none were even taken." |
jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #61 |
65. More clearly: With Biden having the same name recognition |
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that clinton, obama and edwards had because of frontrunner status. .....and through the course of the GE as people get to know the candidates more.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
22. Sure they will be relentless but just think how the Blacks in America will react |
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to those kinds of attacks. They will go BALLISTIC! The Republicans will get their ass's handed to them on a silver platter. Obama will be very, very hard to attack. Just ask Don Imus after he made a racist remark.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
27. "the blacks" do we all march in lockstep. WOW speaking of Don Imus.... |
Occam Bandage
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
33. You're right. There will be no uproar once |
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an African-American presidential candidate is attacked on the basis of his race. Not at all.
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jlake
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
40. I never opined that he would be attacked On the basis of his race....not sure what you are speaking |
Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
43. Thats why the Republicans don't know what to do about Obama |
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Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 12:16 AM by Quixote1818
He is really hard to attack because they don't want to risk sounding prejudice. :thumbsup: :hi:
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jlake
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #43 |
74. No, this is how it will go down: |
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Some "radical" group will make an OUTRAGEOUS commercial against Obama.....air it ONCE and the RNC will feign objection and "denounce" it, Then the MSM Will play it THOUSANDS of time FOR FREE in "condemnation".
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Quixote1818
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
76. That might have worked 4 years ago but Obama is the result of all that |
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Edited on Tue Jan-08-08 02:26 AM by Quixote1818
The people are onto all that bullshit. Not only will it not work but it will completely backfire on them and be a disaster for the Republicans!
Keep in mind that I am an Edwards supporter but I have zero doubt that Obama will be nearly impossible to beat this time around.
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jlake
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #76 |
82. You overestimate the American people. |
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It should have NEVER worked. It is what they will do, and it WILL work again. That is not to say that they will not "swiftboat" whomever our candidate is - they will - but to say that Obama is "unbeatable" is absolutely ridiculous and disconnected from KNOWN REALITY.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
37. It won't be just the blacks. I think most Americans will be disgusted by those kinds of attacks |
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It's those kind of attacks that are leading to Obama's rise. People are fed up with that crap. I got one of those Obama is a Muslim emails today and I was furious! I responded to EVERYONE who had been on that mailing list with the facts. Those kinds of attacks were absolutely Un-American!
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silverojo
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
18. She can fight all she wants |
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When you're despised by Republicans AND Democrats, and the Independents are flocking to Obama, you're not going to be electable in the GE.
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Quixote1818
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
47. That pretty much sums up her problems nt |
Mr_Monday
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Tue Jan-08-08 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
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that HRC could probably take on the GOP whereas Obama might not be able to handle himself very well against the GOP slime machine. During the Clinton years she confronted all their lies and deceits about her head on and destroyed them. However, Obama would be facing a scattered GOP, an unified mass of bigots, warmongers, and generally confused individuals. However, if Hillary were the opponent, those scattered groups would resume their previous glory. For we all know one thing about every conservative: They ALL hate Hillary (even if they liked Bill.) No exceptions.
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David Dunham
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
6. Independents and Reps will vote for McCain over Obama |
Capn Sunshine
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
31. how nice for the Republicans that you fear them so |
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since they have no negatives to worry about
Our campaign can take shit bombs from Hilary's camp, what make s youthink that's worse than the republicans?
Have you noticed the general predictions run to anywhere from1.25 : to 2:1 turnout (Dems vs Rs)?
They are lost, period.
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Big Blue Marble
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #3 |
36. I think this time their attacks will fail. |
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Remember generals tend to fight the last war. This is a new day.
The independents are signaling that they are tired of the old tear them apart limb by limb destructive politics. They, more than any group, are signaling with their Obama support that they want a new approach. Obama is going to be the next President of These United States and the Swift Boat types can sink to the bottom.
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FrenchieCat
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:49 PM
Response to Original message |
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But he should be arrested for Hopemongering. I heard that Democrats aren't into that type of things these days. To Unrealistic and scary! something to do with "Cults" and things! :scared:
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billbuckhead
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
17. Belief is the enemy of truth |
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Obama makes big promises with no history of delivering anything. Come on, this is the guy so tough that he votes "present" when under stress.
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TwilightGardener
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
19. People might get high expectations and lose some cynicism, and |
chascarrillo
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Sun Jan-06-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message |
11. It's obvious, isn't it? nt |
still_one
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message |
20. You can count on the republicans to pull out the Southern Strategy |
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only problem is that the South is not the same today as it was then
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jab105
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message |
54. He will be impossible to beat! |
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He is a change like none other since the 1960s...a change from the status quo...these are historic times...I wish him safety and health...that's the only thing that really worries me right n ow...
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AtomicKitten
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #54 |
Carrieyazel
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #54 |
68. You're really going off the deep end. He is not a change like the 60's; not even close. |
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He has shown no propensity to change the status quo, and he won't be able to. It will be impossible for him to win. Not in this country, not in 2008.
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AshevilleGuy
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #68 |
77. Oh God, the repuke smear machine could spend a month |
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on his middle name alone. This is nuts.
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chascarrillo
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #77 |
79. Speaking of smears... nice one. |
AshevilleGuy
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #79 |
85. You think they won't do this? |
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That is mild compared to what they are capable of. Look what they did to Kerry. Remember the monstrous ad they leveled at Harold Ford?? Obama's middle name is what it is; they will twist it in ways we can't even imagine, and pretending it won't happen doesn't help.
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Carrieyazel
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:35 AM
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67. Be careful, folks. Getting the independent vote in a general election |
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Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 12:36 AM by Carrieyazel
and getting Democratic-leaning Independents in a primary, ARE TWO SEPERATE AND DISTINCT THINGS!!!!
What are we saying here!!!! He is not the Republicans worst nightmare. A little-tested Senator with no executive experience. That's really their nightmare. Please.
And bringing the youth out in record numbers, does not ensure anything!!! Older votes could come out in record numbers, just to stop him.
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Thrill
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Mon Jan-07-08 12:41 AM
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70. He'll be tough to beat |
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Especially with the field the Republicans are running
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PretzelWarrior
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Tue Jan-08-08 01:29 AM
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73. He's also attracting GOP. that should scare them. |
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African Americans turned out, Latinos turned out, Women supporting him, young people supporting him, independents supporting him.....it could be a wonderful day in America come November 2008.
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AshevilleGuy
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:24 AM
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75. Think about that. Why would repukes vote for him? |
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So he will be our nominee?? Does that not ring a bell?
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Quixote1818
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:28 AM
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80. Maybe for the same reason Democrats voted for Reagan? |
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Keep in mind that I support Edwards not Obama. I know a winning candidate when I see one though. Edwards and Obama would be tough to beat.
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AshevilleGuy
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:35 AM
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84. I do not see a parallel there. |
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Dems voted for Ronnie because they were too conservative for Carter or Mondale. That would imply that repukians are too liberal for Giuliani or McCain so they vote Obama, in the primaries. Doesn't make sense. They vote for him so he will be our nominee - the easiest to beat.
Having watched elections since 1960 I know winners and losers as well. We have one of each here.
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Chasing Dreams
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:40 AM
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Either one would be tough to be beat. Together, they would be unstoppable.
I too know a winning candidate when I see one. Obama is the best I have ever seen on the Democratic side, and Edwards is second.
There is no way Hillary can over come two decades of MSM/Repuke attacks. And that's too bad. She probably would have made a great President.
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Cha
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:27 AM
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78. And he's going to bring out some |
Critters2
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:29 AM
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81. I worked on Dean's campaign. |
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All the Deaniacs I know are for Edwards. He's the obvious place for Deaniacs to go.
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Cha
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Tue Jan-08-08 02:35 AM
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I know others on this board who are supporting Obama..and we like Edwards, too.
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ellisonz
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Tue Jan-08-08 03:13 AM
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87. I'm a Deaniac for Obama too. |
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