John Kerry tears up

[sandnsea]

Does anybody remember this from 2004? Do you remember how this one little moment was blown into a weepy old man who was too much of a wimp to fight the bad guys? This was when he was talking to a woman with some serious problems, that would bring anybody to tears. Truth is though, he wasn't crying. He was still destroyed over it.



Fast forward to Hillary's crocodile tears. How fucking dare she play the weepy woman card. Give me a break. If Hillary hasn't broken down into tears at Walter Reed, or on the front lines in Iraq or Afghanistan, or when she was humiliated in front of the entire world by her husband's affairs - she sure as hell isn't crying over the country "sliding backward". And if her own personal ambition is the ONLY thing that brings her to tears - well then that tells you everything you need to know about Hillary Clinton.

All I can think about are the millions of womens who had to fight the weepy woman stereotype, only to have Hillary Clinton slap it right back on all of us again. She has done this so many times in this campaign, it's going to be years before a woman can overcome all this and run again.

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. i don't remember that

what was the deal with Kerry crying.

[sandnsea]

5. I think he had a friggin' cold

or something along those lines. He wiped his eye and they blew it up into a weepy old man crying over a sob story. It was ridiculous.

[alstephenson]

2. Get over it.

[Skip Intro]

3. Damn her for being human!

that hatred will do far more harm to you than to Hillary

[LittleClarkie]

4. One thing about John is he's not quick to tears

which makes them seem all the more genuine.

I haven't seen the clip of Hillary yet, so I can't comment on whether or not she's sincere.

[sandnsea]

7. He was wiping his eye, not crying n/t

[LittleClarkie]

15. I was thinking of his concession speech

and the speech in which he said he would not run in 2008. Both times, pundits said they thought he was crying because he wouldn't be prez. Each time I thought he was near tears for other reasons, the first because he was thinking of all the people he'd met, and the second because Iraq reminds him too much of Vietnam.

[sandnsea]

21. I'm talking about this specific incident

When he was beaten to hell for this moment, yet Hillary's voice cracks and it makes her human. Sexist bullshit, any way you slice it. Women do not have to cry to be human. It's ridiculous. And to manipulate people with that sexist stereotype is appalling and that's all she's doing.

[LittleClarkie]

23. Well, she's attempting to have it make her human

whether or not she's succeeding is another question.

But then I thought having Bill come out and say that the "boys" were ganging up on her was also a bad move and also sexist. It's playing the gender card when that should be the LAST thing she would want to do.

[sandnsea]

25. There were several moments like that

And this is just another one of them. She needs to figure out who she is and the real attributes women bring to the table and run on that. Determination, perseverance, dedication, high standards. Hell mothers are the ones who believe in children agaisnt all odds, no matter what - and she says stop having false hopes?? Crazy.

[Cameron27]

9. As far as I could tell, she didn't cry, she barely teared up,

her voice became a little hoarse, but that was about it.

[youthere]

58. "One thing about John is he's not quick to tears...

which makes them seem all the more genuine."

And Hillary cries ALL the time. :eyes: Right.

She's one hell of a tough lady, and I can't BELIEVE she's being raked over the coals for showing a bit of emotion.

[LittleClarkie]

62. Just talking about John. I went off on my own little tangent there.

Wasn't inferring anything about Hillary.

[youthere]

63. Sorry LittleClarkie...

this whole topic has me mad as hell-so I'm a little touchy. I'm not even a Clinton supporter.

[JVS]

6. Well when you spent a year on a swiftboat gunning people down, you get a pass on that.

[sandnsea]

8. This was in the primary, he wasn't crying n/t

[Orrex]

10. Bush cries when his socks don't have "L" and "R" printed on them

The only thing IMO more frustrating than the media's relentless attacks on him were his team's clumsy responses to them.

Sorry, John--I wish you could have gotten your new office in 2005.

[fenriswolf]

13. you should have seen his tantrum

when they handed him socks without the presidential seal on them.

[elixir]

11. First you say she hasn't teared up over the war, etc. ...

Then you say she's done this so many times in this campaign ... which one is it?

Give me a break, she's not ruining any woman's chances of running again. She and others like Diane Finestein and Nancy Pelosi have done a magnificent job of bringing women to the forefront of the political stage. There's not turning back because of a few tears.

[sandnsea]

12. Played sexist cards, over and over

Her coy act the other night, saying she's your "girl", all kinds of things that women have had to work against and she just turns right around and plays the stereotype any time she thinks it works to her advantage. It's sickening.

[elixir]

14. You're a little sensitive on these issues. All's fair in love and war and

politics is a battlefield. OK, so the moment was less than genuine and showed a weak attempt at sympathy but I'm not letting it stop me from considering a vote for her. How did you feel the other night when Obama brought up his mother's fatal battle with cancer? Did you tear up? I didn't because I know that he used that information to advance his campaign not the discussion at hand. They're all politicians and nothing is sacred, not even your mother.

[sandnsea]

17. I've been fighting the stereotypes all my life

Not only the crying garbage, but also being a strong woman who doesn't take shit. Obama talking about his mother is honest. Edwards bringing the 3 people with medical problems is honest. This shit is cynical manipulative horseshit and I am so sick of it. That she hurt women who are fighting for respect in the workplace is just another chink against her.

[Horse with no Name]

19. Politics is a battlefield

And every single thing you do has the potential to end up on you-tube or network/cable news. When you aren't up for that battle, you should recognize it and sit it out until you have firm control.
As far as Obama's and Edwards references to their mother and father--it is a life experience that is uniquely theirs. Each life experience that we have makes us the person we are as adults. It give insight on WHY they feel the way they do. If it bothers you looking through a window of reality instead of window of contrived emotion, then that is an issue in of itself.

[elixir]

57. You mean politically staged ploys to pull at the voters heart strings.

[kimmerspixelated]

16. In her defense,

(and I don't know why), but maybe she's just having one of those really tired moments. Their daily schedules are so grueling. Only the really strong can survive. And/or, she is having a tough time, since she's probably figured out that maybe things aren't a shoe-in for her! She was way over-confident, I think. It's sinking in.

[Window]

29. My thoughts exactly.

She's overwroght and things aren't going as well as she had hoped. Hell, I'd cry, too.




Peace:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karynnj]

20. They spoke of Kerry near tears when he spoke in the Senate to say he wasn't running

In reality, there were no tears - but his voice broke when telling the story of a young soldier who spoke to him and Dodd when they were in Iraq about the types of missions they were sent on. The man cme home for a leave, returned and was killed. His voice wavered again when he spoke of the many things that had to be worked on last year and this to try to make the world less a disaster for whichever President takes over.

Kerry's eyes looked like he was very near tears at the end of his concession when he hugged Teresa. Contrary to stereotypes, Kerry seems to be a person very comfortable showing emotion - though, unlike HRC, he is very good at controlling anger.

I certainly don't think less of him, but actually more.

I don't think less of HRC. I think it has to be immensely hard to go from a prohibitive favorite up 20 points in National polls to a situation where she is most likely not the front runner. To make it harder, this happens when she has to be in public most hours she is awake and has to speak about it, likely before she has emotionally accepted it. The country has been sliding backwards for at least 7 years. Bush will leave in about a year, likely replaced by a Democrat. HRC is not reacting to the country, but to her own chances of heading it. L'etat est moi! If Obama can easily beat her in getting the nomination, is clearly more popular among Republicans and independents. So, it was self, not party, not country.

[sandnsea]

22. He was beaten every time there was a hint of a tear

And her voice cracks and it supposedly makes her human?? That is sexist double standard bullshit and it's disgusting. That's if you believe it was a real moment from her, and I don't, not for one second.

[Quixote1818]

24. Wes Clark teared up on 60 minutes showing photos of slaughtered children

in Bosnia. I was really drawn to him in that instance. I think Hillary fell in love with Bill when she saw him tear up over the homeless. There are times when tears can be very moving and give us a glimpse inside someones beautiful heart.

Hillary is human and it must be difficult having gone from the sure winner to getting clobbered! I feel for her but I do think her tears are more about herself than for the country. She can still do a lot for the country as a Senator. They say Teddy Kennedy impacted the United States much more than John ever did having passed so many bills over the years. Hillary can do the same thing!

[zulchzulu]

26. Absolutely

I saw Kerry once in Iowa talking to a Vietnam vet who was having the worst problems with his health, lost his family, was on the street, broke and was there in tattered clothes...but felt he needed to talk to a fellow vet. John did get very upset when he heard his story and his voice cracked from the emotion. There wasn't a dry eye in the auditorium. His emotions were not for his campaign. He was flashing back at his memories of that war when the guy was talking about it and he could see his buddies' names on the Wall. Kerry is a man's man and he can handle his emotion and shows compassion. I've seen him up close and I've never seen a person more genuine and sincere.

Like you said, Hillary's tears today just seem very calculated and trite. She's crying because her coronation may be cancelled. I was even a bit repelled by her with her little performance in the Saturday debate when she played Little Miss Bashful and whimpered "that would hurt my feelings". Enough already!

Like you said, women have been fighting the little girl weeping stereotype for years and she just sets it back. She's NOT tough enough like she tells us. Maybe she's just exhausted and freaked out at how things have gone, but if anything, her emotional performances are sexist in terms of her using her emotions as a campaign tool.

Has she cried for the dead that she summoned to their death with her IWR vote? Probably not.

[politicasista]

30. I remember

this story also by flyarm.


:hi:

[Joe the Revelator]

27. It must be something losers do

I've yet to see a winner sob on camera.

[sandnsea]

28. That's a shitty thing to say n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

31. It's harsh but true

I fought for Kerry, but at the end of the day, he still lost.

[politicasista]

34. Except that Kerry is not a loser as senator n/t

[mogster]

32. I can weep too, now. Never used to be the type to weep.

Comes from following the disaster Bush creates for people, and being able to identify with it.

[Cha]

33. The m$$$$$$$m had it

out for Kerry! He couldn't get break from them and he still won but we were meant to endure the nightmare for 8 years.

[Maven]

35. My God, you are so bitter about this.

Calm down, really.

[lynne]

36. She needs to can the tears -

- real or crocodile. Tears from a man can be considered "sensitive". In a woman, they'll be considered a "weakness" and will be used against her. Sadly, I believe that any woman candidate will be subjected to a higher standard on the emotion issue and tears can be her undoing.

[oasis]

37. A dime store psychoanalysis of Hillary is just what this board has been lacking.

Thanks :hi:

[mzmolly]

38. You're the one talking about her gender Sandnsea.

Kerry, Bush and many other MEN have become 'emotional' in the context of patriotism.

[sandnsea]

39. Kerry was beaten up for it, relentlessly

He's been beaten up every single time he got emotional about anything. Nobody said that was sexist.

[mzmolly]

42. You mentioned women being 'set back'

had to fight the weepy woman stereotype, only to have Hillary Clinton slap it right back on all of us again Which is sexist. No one taked about Kerry setting MEN back. They talked about his tears, NOT his gender.

[sandnsea]

43. Because men aren't supposed to cry

That's why they attacked his tears. Surely I don't have to explain that to you.

[mzmolly]

45. Neither are women apparently

or it 'sets us back.'

[sandnsea]

46. Pretending to cry, phony tears, yes that sets us back n/t

[mzmolly]

47. That's your spin.

Thankfully even the media take is that she is being genuine.

[sandnsea]

48. Really? I thought they were beating her up

Yes I know the media believes that she is genuine, and that it's a humanizing moment.

It's just that most of America isn't buying it so now the Clintons have decided to pretend she's being beaten up for crying.

[mzmolly]

49. Sorry, the words "beaten up" didn't come up on CNN when I watched.

Perhaps Faux would had another take?

[sandnsea]

50. So Hillary isn't being beaten up for crying?

Now I'm really confused.

[mzmolly]

51. You're confusing

yourself apparently?

[sandnsea]

53. Is the media praising her or beating her up?

It's a simple question. I've seen them praising her "humanizing moment".

[mzmolly]

54. You'll have to turn on the tele and judge for yourself.

My comments are directed at your post, not various members of the media.

[sandnsea]

55. You said the media says she is being genuine

"Thankfully even the media take is that she is being genuine."

This is what I responded to. I thought the problem was that the media was being mean to her. Which is it?

[mzmolly]

61. And, you said the media was 'beating her up' to which I replied form your own opinion on that.

My issue again is with YOUR sexist post, not with the media reaction.

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. That's pretty fucking presumptious

Have you patented a rating/ranking scale for situations that are worthy of real tears contrasted with those that can only realisticly elicit crocadile tears? Is it as effective as a lie detector test yet? There's probably a good market for such a sincerity sorter.

I have gone through real shit storms in my life without shedding a tear, and I have cried reading a news story about a pet who died helping their owner survive.

First off, it would have been fine with me if Hillary out and out cried. Second, she didn't. She got emotional and it showed. There are distinctions to be made, but like I said to me they don't matter in this case - but since they do in the political world: Point A, Hillary never "lost it" during that reply.

But more to my point. When I viewed the clip I thought her emotion was triggered by the empathy implicitly being shown her in the question she was asked. Acts of kindness are as least as likely to make me cry as are hardships. And Hillary Clinton, like Barack Obama and John Edwards and the other candidates also, is living a daily grind that is almost impossible for me to internally grasp right now. One, it is exhausting and that has an effect, but that isn't even it.

If I were one of those Democratic candidates, getting up every morning at the crack of dawn to go out and greet thousands of pure stangers without a real moment of privacy - eating lousy food, being hounded by the press and accused of things like your OP accuses Hillary of right here, right now, I tell you what. I would question what I was going through all this for. And if I couldn't find a damn good reason to believe it was worth it, I couldn't put myself through it for a single hour. That question put to Hillary put her in touch with why she was standing there sleep exhuasted in New Hampshire in the first place. The issues that have been important to her all her life. If that can't make someone emotional I sure don't want them as my President.

[Cameron27]

44. Thank you Tom,

when you're feeling beaten down, an act of kindness can make you choke up. That's all that happened.

[youthere]

59. Bravo!

I've never been a Hillary supporter, but the viceral crap that's been said about her interview has me solidly in her corner on this issue.

[no name no slogan]

41. It sank Muskie in '72

And he may not have even been actually crying.

Full story from PBS for those who don't remember or weren't born yet

[AshevilleGuy]

52. It certainly did!

In those days, males crying was unthinkable. We were raised that way. When my mother died a few years ago I let tears show in front of the nurse. I immediately apologized for it, and she looked at me as if I were from Mars.

[jlake]

56. No, I don't remember this....and it does not look like he is crying

But thanks for the bash Hillary thread.

[TheDonkey]

60. I remember how it didn't come across as phoney and oppurtunistic

Let's stop this "DU is sexist" crap. The issue I have read about Hillary's breakdown is not the point she was emotional but the point she was crying with no tears and seemingly winking to her campaign advisers sitting across the room in between whimpers.

[Alamom]

64. Like Obama looking at the "Time" cover, choking up and saying his Mother

would have loved it. People, human beings, both genders have tear ducts.