Unexpected wrinkle for Clinton in Michigan: Democratic leaders urge "uncommitted" votes

[DeepModem Mom]

CNN: Unexpected wrinkle for Clinton in Michigan

WASHINGTON (CNN) – Democratic leaders in Michigan are urging supporters of John Edwards and Barack Obama, who are not on the ballot in the state, to vote “uncommitted” in the January 15 primary – a move that could create an unexpected headache for Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Clinton is the only major presidential candidate who did not pull her name from the Michigan ballot after the national party penalized the state for scheduling the vote in mid-January, rather than later in the cycle.

The national party voted to strip Michigan of delegates as a penalty, but party leaders in the electoral-vote rich state have expressed confidence that they will be seated at the convention.

None of the candidates, including Clinton, will be campaigning here, and none have authorized write-in campaigns – which means that, under state law, their supporters cannot cast write-in votes for any of them. But if at least 15 percent of the voters in a congressional district opt for the “uncommitted” option rather than voting for Clinton, delegates not bound to any candidate could attend the national convention – a development that could allow Edwards or Obama supporters to play a role in candidate selection there....

A new group, Detroiters for Uncommitted Voters, is launching a grassroots campaign to promote the “uncommitted” option. The Detroit News reported Thursday that Democratic Rep. John Conyers and his wife, Detroit City Councilwoman Monica Conyers, said they will launch ads calling for "uncommitted" votes if there is no other way to register support for Barack Obama.

The option is also being endorsed by Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, and the state’s Democratic Party Chair Mark Brewer as a way for Democrats who do not support Clinton to participate in the vote. Neither man has endorsed a presidential candidate.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/10/unexpected-wrinkle-for-clinton-in-michigan/

[Cameron27]

1. I think it's that Howard Dean has to address

this then. I understand why they're using the uncommitted option, but if it's being used to sabotage a Democratic candidate, then he's got to at least talk about.

[madfloridian]

6. Sabotage? How do you sabotage the only candidate on the ballot?

It is the only way to vote for the others. :shrug:

[Cameron27]

13. If Obama and Edwards supporters

write in uncommitted in order to vote against someone who's name is already on the ballot, then that's sabotaging the uncommitted vote. No?

Uncommitted is supposed to mean uncommitted. No?

[madfloridian]

25. Yes, uncommitted means you are not for anyone yet.

And that you resent having only that one person to vote for.

[BenDavid]

38. kinda like obama voting present on womens issues

[jasmine621]

42. Sorry, shows poor judgement to me. E and O should have stayed on the ballot.

They didn't have to remove their names from the ballot. All they had to do was to not Campaign there. Not a smart move by O and E. Pretty savvy of DK and HC.

[PassingFair]

43. You say "savvy".

I say "shameful".

So do Michigan voters who have followed the
situation.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

60. You mean these ones?

When Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., voted "present," rather than "yes" or "no" on a handful of controversial abortion votes in the Illinois state senate, he did so with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

"We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes," Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. "We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive'. They put these bills out all the time ... because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats."

I think this has been mentioned to you in other threads and if not, consider this to be it

[Alexander]

44. No, because the delegates won't go to Obama or Edwards.

They will be "Uncommitted".

You're really reaching.

[bellasgrams]

20. There is no way that can be a fair solution

Of course there will ge more uncommitted, that's 2 against 1. That's not right. I've felt all along that FL voters were getting the shaft, I didn't realize Mich. was the same way. I know my daughter in Fl has been wondering if she should even go vote because she didn't think her vote was going go count. Wasn't this a Dean's doing?

[madfloridian]

24. Oh, and FL and MI gave themselves the shaft...and they hurt the people ...

of both states for their own agendas.

[bellasgrams]

21. There is no way that can be a fair solution

Of course there will ge more uncommitted, that's 2 against 1. That's not right. I've felt all along that FL voters were getting the shaft, I didn't realize Mich. was the same way. I know my daughter in Fl has been wondering if she should even go vote because she didn't think her vote was going go count. Wasn't this a Dean's doing?

[madfloridian]

23. It was Florida's doing. They blamed Dean and tried to make him look bad.

They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. They got the media on their side and the public never heard that the vote was 115 to 1.

I wrote something last night.

Bill Nelson is glad he sued the DNC...Karen Thurman, chairman, has no regrets at all.

I have written a whole lot about it. But Florida Democratic leaders led by Bill Nelson control the state. They did it to give Hillary an aura of inevitability early on.

If you are interested.

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a
"voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the
DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to
let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local
email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in
chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument
here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone
call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to
Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had
to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get
near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

[Joe the Revelator]

9. So you saying that people HAVE to vote for Hillary...

even though the uncommited option is on the table?


How very democratic of you.

[Cameron27]

14. No I'm not saying that,

what I'm saying is that the process is being used disenguously, which is why I think the DNC should make a statement about it.

[Yael]

49. She loses to "other" and that is sabotage?

Please. They are just advising people what their options are as opposed to staying home.

[suston96]

2. The "democratic leaders" doing this are AAs - Rep. and Mrs Conyers

[rinsd]

4. So fucking what?

[wndycty]

5. Woooooooo, so what are you trying to say?

:kick:

[suston96]

12. What am I try to say? It's definitely a sexist move.

[dionysus]

16. actually what you're saying is more like

"it's dem dam negros playin the race kard!!!"

[suston96]

30. Damn - how did you figure that out? I thought I was being, er - cautious.

But I never use "negroes". I think it's more respectful to say: "coloreds".

Like I used to see on the signs down south and in the old movies.

[ellacott]

22. Gee Whiz n/t

[bicentennial_baby]

8. And?....

[Yael]

50. Get out of my party

Damn.

[MaineDem]

56. I think you miss the point

This has nothing to do with race or gender. It has to do with who's on the ballot and who's not. Unless one wishes to vote for Hillary or, I think Kucinich, there is no way to do it other than vote "Uncommitted."

Not all those advocating this step are African Americans. The two you mentioned, yes, but the others are not.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Well, that makes sense

uncommitted may give them more power at the convention. Of course, it all depends upon what happens between now and then, especially in other states.

[Demeter]

7. Since This Was a Clinton/DLC Ploy to Disenfranchise Michigan

that Uncommitted workaround is really gonna hurt! Our delegates get in, hers don't? Sweet!

[PassingFair]

27. This is the first I've heard of this, Demeter.....

and the article doesn't really SAY that.

We've gotta look into this, obviously....

:)

[fadedrose]

45. you're probably right

So many blacks in some areas of MI, and so much unemplyment in ALL areas of MI that Obama and Edwards would probably have done well with their names on the ballot. Trouble is, if they didn't move up the date, the regular MI primary to me seemed to be days before the election (exagerating I know). The candidates we like in our state have already dropped out of the race because of poor showings in earlier states.

MI would do well with either candidate.

I'd like to vote for Kucinich but he'd have to assure me that his delegates will be given to Edwards or Obama at the convention. When it comes to mapping the platform, delegates would help Kucinich get some things his way if he had enough, wouldn't they?

[Demeter]

46. Vote Uncommitted -- Write Ins Will Not Count, As None Are Valid.

They're talking of seating the Uncommitted delegates only, although there are no hotel rooms reserved for them. It's the only way to hope to have any influence.

[fadedrose]

48. Kucinich is on the ballot, don't need to write in

[Hippo_Tron]

53. How could it be a Clinton/DLC ploy if she's the one who remains on the ballot?

[Demeter]

54. Think About It.

[gaiilonfong]

10. yessssssssssssssss! n/t

[Lucinda]

11. Seems fine to me. Though I'm not sure how much benefit the effort will create.

Michigan voters got slapped when candidates pulled their names off the ballot. I'm not sure what the mood on the ground there is about it. They may be willing to go uncommitted, or they may not bother to vote. OR they may go Rep. Or they may support Hillary for staying on their ballot.

[wyldwolf]

26. I agree there. Seems the leaders referenced are counting on voters there to...

...punish Clinton for having the audacity to stay on the ballot when, in fact, the voters have been disenfranchised to an extent.

[PassingFair]

29. Audacity is the correct word....

When the other candidates honored their pledge
not to participate.

[Lucinda]

31. The pledge was to "not campaign" in Michigan. Removing their names was an effort

to make points in the early states by smacking down Michigan even further.

[PassingFair]

32. Here is the text of the pledge:

Text of Pledge Letter

WHEREAS, over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a 2008 nominating calendar;

WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic diversity of our party and our country;

WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the nominating process, to ensure that money alone will not determine our presidential nominee;

WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the nominating calendar.

THEREFORE, I , Democratic Candidate for President, pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any state which schedules a presidential election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as "campaigning" is defined by the rules and regulations of the DNC. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.




But you go on telling people that John Edwards and Barack Obama hate Michigan.

Because THAT'S SO BELIEVABLE!

[Lucinda]

33. WTF are you talking about? I never said any such thing.

[PassingFair]

34. Perhaps I misunderstand the meaning of "smacking down Michigan".

What did that mean?

On Edit:

And this:

"Michigan voters got slapped when candidates pulled their names off the ballot."

???

[Lucinda]

35. It meant that they were willing to remove their names in Michigan in an attempt to

keep Iowa and NH happy. It was a calulated move. They didn't need to remove their names from the ballot.

[PassingFair]

36. There are 48 other states besides Iowa and New Hamphire.

It depends on what your definition of "participate" is, apparently.
Every candidate except for the DLC's Clinton and Dodd either withdrew,
or tried to withdraw their names from the ballot.

The DNC defined "not participate" as to not be on the ballot.

As in NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE ELECTION.

But I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.....

Spin away.


On Edit: And I like the way that following party rules is
considered "calculated"! LOL

[skipos]

15. I am voting UNCOMMITTED! Edwards, Obama and Richardson supporters should do the same.

Read the link below.

[PassingFair]

17. This is a bull*hit article.

This is the first I've heard of ONLY allowing the "uncommitteds"
to be seated, and in fact merely IMPLIES that ONLY "uncommitteds"
might get seated.

As far as DNC rules are concerned, our delegates will NOT BE seated.

IF ANY are seated, then presumably ALL will be seated.

"Uncommitted" delegates will vote as they may.
Clinton delegates will vote for Clinton.

(There are no hotel rooms reserved for the Michigan delegation
in Colorado......)

More information can be found in the Michigan forum or on
Google for anyone wanting to find out the REAL story.

[Cameron27]

18. Ok thanks,

that makes sense.

[PassingFair]

19. Also, Kucinich is ON the ballot.

This bullshit article fails to mention that, too.

Long story, but he attempted to remove his name,
but filed the paperwork incorrectly.

[Cameron27]

28. Alright,

I'll retract anything I said upthread lol. Thanks again.

[SharonRB]

37. You're absolutely right, PF

I've never heard any chance that only some delegates would be seated. It will be all or nothing -- more likely nothing from what I can tell so far. If we have a presumptive nominee, it's more likely they will seat our delegates, however, if we have a presumptive nominee, it won't really matter, will it?

I'm so disgusted with the state party I could just scream.

Mark Brewer and Debbie Dingell were on the DNC committee that voted in the rules and now they're not following their own rules. It just sucks!

[BigDDem]

39. Obama supports are urged to vote "Present"

[DeepModem Mom]

40. I'm kicking this as an FYI for the p.m. crowd.

[dread]

41. repeat kick

Needs to be read

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

47. I voted for "uncommitted"

Now we'll see who claims to claim it.

If any delegates are in the convention, that is.

:hi:

[sgifford]

51. Let the Democratic leadership know

Regardless of what you decide to do on Tuesday, please take a few minutes to let the Democratic leadership know how you feel about their decision to disenfranchise Michigan's voters! I posted some information about this issue and some ideas for contacting the Democratic leadership at http://WhoStoleMiVote.org

[DeepModem Mom]

52. Thanks for your post, sgifford -- welcome to DU!!!

[Didereaux]

55. this forces Clinton to expend more funds in order to keep the 'spread' at

nearly the previous levels of the other primaries In otherwords she now must get 1/3 or better of the total in order to not be said to have 'lost' in Mi. I have always believed that it was a mistake for her to saty on that ballot, there was almost mnothing to gain and a bunch to lose...her campaign strategists fucked up.

[MaineDem]

57. I don't think she's campaigning in Michigan at all

And, I agree. She should have dropped out like most of the others.

[skipos]

58. I am voting UNCOMMITED. Edwards, Obama, Richardson, Biden supporters should do the same. nt

[Strawman]

59. Yah. Good luck with that

Turnout in MI is gonna suck due to this fiasco. Period. Even if everyone from MI on this board says they will either vote uncommitted or for Hillary or DK and manages to persuade a few others.

Telling people to vote "uncommitted" while no active campaigning by the major candidates is going on in the state is about as uncompelling as it gets.

At this point, these people are pissing into the wind. Approaching this mess with a "can do" attitude is simply not credible. It is an unmitigated disaster.

[tandem5]

61. why did the other candidates pull their names?

a money thing?