After Complaint, Dean Explains Himself to Party Chairman

[Karmadillo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/30/politics/campaigns/30TRAI.html

Howard Dean reached out to the Democratic national chairman on Monday, a day after rebuking him as failing to stop attacks by Mr. Dean's rivals for the Democratic nomination, even as those candidates seized on the episode as grist for new criticism.

The rivals — Senators Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut and John Kerry of Massachusetts, Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri and the Rev. Al Sharpton — took issue with Dr. Dean's suggestion on Sunday that the chairman, Terry McAuliffe, should seek to tone down their attacks and with his comment that many young Dean supporters might not vote in November if he was not the nominee.

<edit>

Mr. Gephardt pointed out that Dr. Dean himself had frequently criticized the eight other candidates.

"He said that we weren't real Democrats, that none of us accomplished anything while we were in the Congress. I didn't scream and yell and say Terry McAuliffe has to save me from these discussions. That's what you do in elections," he said.

Mr. Sharpton focused on Dr. Dean's comments about his supporters. "To threaten to withdraw support unless you are the one nominated six months prior to the convention is arrogant and divisive and frankly is one of the reasons so many are questioning Dean's ability to unite the party should he win the nomination," he said.

more...

[Hep]

1. Your subject line says that Dean explained himself

but where's the explanation in your exerpt?

[Karmadillo]

3. The explanation, what little there is of it,

isn't in the excerpt. If you had actually read the excerpt, you would have known that.

To help you out, I'll repost the link and let you know in advance the Dean aide quoted said she couldn't say what Dean and McAuliffe talked about. She does, however, say the conversation was a friendly one. Click on the link to find out more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/30/politics/campaigns/30TRAI.html

[Hep]

14. sorry

I don't subscribe. But thanks anyway. It would have been nice had you actually included the explanation in the exerpt, since that was what the thread looked like it was about.

Maybe one of the dozen or so followup threads will include it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. LOL... "save me from these discussions"

Man, this is funny stuff.

[in_cog_ni_to]

4. Go Sharpton!

He always tells it like it is. WTG, Al!

Kerry's statement was SPOT ON! BINGO!

Mr. Kerry echoed those remarks.

"Listening to Howard Dean's comments yesterday makes me wonder if he's worried about our party's chances for victory or his own personal political future," the senator said. "No one who really cares about the future of the Democratic Party would make such a divisive and threatening statement."

[TacticalPeek]

8. Al just plain has a knack for the words.

"one of the reasons so many are questioning Dean's ability to unite the party should he win the nomination"

Is anybody, like, listening?

[BootinUp]

5. Kerry tries to expose Dean

snip...

Mr. Kerry echoed those remarks.

"Listening to Howard Dean's comments yesterday makes me wonder if he's worried about our party's chances for victory or his own personal political future," the senator said. "No one who really cares about the future of the Democratic Party would make such a divisive and threatening statement."

...

Dean is going to get killed if he keeps making these gaffes!

[pasadenaboy]

6. Tell Kerry to get his position on the Iraq war straight

before he criticizes someone on the basis of doing things for political gains. His waffling on the war is a manifistation of his willingness to go along with W when it is politically convenient.

Typical Washington sell-out. No wonder he hates Dean shaking up the status quo.

[BootinUp]

13. Nice for Dean he didn't have to vote, huh?

[mouse7]

22. Nice for Kerry that HE didn't have to vote

Kerry has missed over 60% of his Senate votes this Congress.

[zulchzulu]

15. Deaf ears need no explanation

The basic way to remember Kerry's consistent IWR policy is to see that it was the same one essentially that Dean had with the only difference being that Dean agreed to the use of unilateral force against Saddam after 30 days notice.

The quotes Dean made when he originally agreed with the terms of the Biden-Lugar amendment to the IWR have been posted here dozens of times... you can read them or not...

[mouse7]

23. Nope.

What Dean said in a Face The Nation appearace on 9/30/02 was that the only reason for using force would be if Saddam refused the return of inspectors or was found with nukes, with either the UN or NATO beside us.

Kerry allowed Dubya to attack Iraq without allies even though Iraq had allowed the inspectors in without the evidence of an imminant threat on Iraq's part.

Dean's position was one that fits the definition of self-defense under international law. Kerry supported the Dumbya position, which was a violation of international law.

Technically, Kerry's vote on the IWR was a war crime according to international law.

[KittyWampus]

38. Dean's Multiple MAJOR Gaffes & Kerry's IWR Vote Are Two Seperate Issues

and Dean whining to Terry Mc. and also using a veiled threat against the Democratic Party were gaffes.

Dean then had to go make nice with Terry...

Why conflate the two issues (Dean's mulitple mistakes & Kerry's vote)? They are not related.

Maybe you just want to change the subject away from Dean because you know what an ass he's making of himself.

[bearfartinthewoods]

20. we were all warned, seven months ago, to "get used to it" <sheeeit>

i want to spend my time campaigning on ideas,
not "clean-up on aisles four"

[HFishbine]

31. "i want to spend my time campaigning on ideas"

In the words of Judge Shmales, "Well, we're waaaaaiiiting...."

[pezcore64]

46. LOL!

"Mr. Kerry echoed those remarks"

LOL!
That pretty much sums up his campaign ;)

[floridaguy]

7. Our candidate can't afford to always be explaining himself.

It seems that every other time he opens his mouth, Howard Dean is having to explain, apologize, or otherwise work his way out of some comment, which was either bad judgment, bad politics, or a lie.

We can't afford this . . .We can't afford four more years either.

Wesley Clark is the one who will unify this party and win back the White House. No explanation needed.

Thank you General Clark for not having me wake up every day reluctant to read what you said yesterday.

[TacticalPeek]

9. Amen.

Thank God for Clark's sharp thoughtfulness.

[killbotfactory]

11. Dean could say the moon wasn't made of cheese...

And everyone of his opponents would bash him for it.

Every goddamn thing that comes out of his mouth is misconstrued, twisted, and taken out of context.

[KittyWampus]

39. Hyperbole & Exaggeration Don't Help Your Case. Why Not Just Admit

Dean has a problem expressing his thoughts in ways that don't necessitate backtracking, apologies or clean ups?

In the last week and a half Dean's mouth has been a disaster and all the money in the world won't change that.

[killbotfactory]

49. The only problem is with his opponents who seem to...

Have an adverse reaction to the english language when it suits them politically.

[mdmc]

52. Welcome to DU, Floridaguy

This is where you know that your vote counts!

[killbotfactory]

10. Dean opponents try to make a controversy out of nothing...

Again...

[Cocoa]

12. it's not really controversy

it's just crap. And it's getting annoying. Who wants to be talking about Terry McAuliffe? Is McAuliffe really someone the voters care about, or even know about?

[stickdog]

16. "Dean doesn't have a chance against Bush."

That was certainly a party unifier, JFK.

[QC]

17. "After Complaint, Dean Exposes Himself to Party Chairman"

That's how I read the subject header when I first glanced at it. Do you ever do that?

A friend of mine was once looking through the TV listings and imagined, for just a moment, that she saw the title "Douched by an Angel."

[HFishbine]

32. I was tuned in to wathc what I thought was going to be

Touched by an Anvil.

[shance]

18. Deans the candidate about real change. The ones accusing are jealous

and unwilling to face the truth,

that Dean, from his performance and dedication overall, is simply the best candidate.

Dean offers this party the best of all worlds, hes inclusive and it is sincere, which is imperitive. People want to call him an insider. People want to him an outsider. People want to call him a sidesider. They want to put him in any category that will alienate or disconnect him from Americans, but they simply CANT. The bigger question for me is, why would they? I am surprised people in the party dont see this as a FANTASTIC thing. Of course many Democratic leaders do and are coming on board, but others it seems are scared of losing something more than they are realizing that we are gaining someone who will be a great leader if we stand with him and support him.

I wish these men in Congress running for president had the insight to see the damage they are doing in taking this road and attacking on our own frontrunner (much less all Dem candidates should be pulling back now on attacking other Dems)

It feels at times as if a few of these candidates have put Americas voices on mute.

Dean has taken his candidacy and Americans seriously. I dont think anyone has taken this candidacy with more dedication and seriousness than Dean. That is why he is the front runner.

I have seen nothing from the other candidates,save Kucinich and Clark, that would come close to the dedication by Dean offered to this campaign and to his candidacy.

From these candidates defensive reactive accusations, I think these Washington men want this presidency handed to them.

What actions have the hill candidates achieved in this campaign that would make us have faith they would stand up to the Republican party?

Not a thing that I can see.

I can tell you, however, some significant actions that spoke volumes to me at times when we needed their loyalty and leadership more than ever.

I can tell you how I felt after spending 500 dollars to see Streisand and Gephardt at an fundraiser for him and the Congressional committee, and the next day after the event, Gephart posed with Bush in a photo op to show his support of the Iraq War Resolution after he had told us he was going to do everything he could to fight the policies being implemented by the Administration.

I can tell you how I felt when John Kerry told those of us who felt betrayed over the 2000 election to "get over it" and to "stop crying in our tea-cups".

Every voting American should feel betrayed when our President is picked by a panel of judges, no matter how superior in stature and authority they may be. Judges dont decide Democracy, voters do. (I think it warrants atleast a pout dont you?)

There have been significant absenses on key votes by the Senators and Gephardt, and yet I have a feeling these Congressmen are wagering that indeed we will get over it....and over it, and over it, and over it again.

I pray for all Americans that we dont get over, and moreover literally reward one of these candidates for what seems to be some substantial neglect in their performances and duties as Congressmen.

Would we want this in our Democratic candidate? And how in the world can a luke warm candidate stand up to the money machine Republican party, not to mention their media machine as well.

I dont want to fully criticize those candidates who are probably great people, and it seems it is the system thats broken and that it allows, almost invites complacency and disconnection from constituencies and Americans at large.

Irregardless, I dont see passion (again, save Kucinich) in any of the candidates from Congress and there is no reason to believe some miracle will happen and all of a sudden they will become different people.

I believe Howard Dean deserves this candidacy, not only because he has incredible passion but he has the drive to do the right things, and with that comes sound fair judgement and common sense.

He has a following and a ground support that I have never seen in the Democratic party. Ever.

He also seems to know the value in working for something and not having it handed down to him on a platter, or granted a high level position because of seniority.

Seems to me whatever Howard Dean achieves, he has earned.

Dont we want someone who has earned the nomination?

[AP]

21. Name three things Dean wants to change and how he's going to do it.

I think "Dean's the candidate for change" is more of a mantra, it's more of "that Howard Dean feeling," than it is a reflection of real policy proposals.

[mouse7]

24. You know better than that

Your boss John Edwards refuses to make attacks against other candidates or tell fabribations about them.

Maybe you should follow that example. The Dean website is full of policy statements, like his plan to get everyone in the US health insurance.

[AP]

25. Huh? "my boss"? And why's this question about Edwards?

I think it's a fact that Dean doesn't make concrete policy proposals. Some pointed out that he has fewer position papers than something like 4 or 5 of the candidates on his web site. He has 11, and Clark has 22, or something like that.

This is a very legitimate question. What exactly is Dean going to change and how is he going to change it? If that feels like an attack, then Dean's going to need to get about 50 skin grafts if he gets nominated.

Anyway, this should be an easy question for a supporter to answer.

Rather than a repetition of the mantra, "Dean's going to change everything," I'm just asking, WHAT is Dean going to change, and HOW?

[mouse7]

26. That's crud. There 11 policy CATEGORIES on Dean site

There are 11 different categories of policy positions on the Dean website.

The economy category has 7 positions.
The agriculture category has 10 positions.
The foreign policy category has 12 positions.

8 more categories to go...

Do you want me to continue or do you feel sufficiently embarrased yet?

[AP]

27. Embarrassed? Tell me three ways Dean's going to change things?

He's very light on policy regardles of the number of policy categories.

I've only heard one solid set of proposals from him -- his Wall St-friendly education plan which is going to encourage students to take on more debt, which will be financed by taxpayers, and it encourages them to take lower paying jobs, because they have to work to get the credit. His education plan isn't going to be changing anything for the better.

What else do you have?

[Hep]

29. Dean's already changin things

What do we call people who are resistant to change?

[AP]

44. He hasn't changed anything yet.

I'm not saying his campaign won't have an influence on the way campaigns are conducted in the future.

However, it hasn't changed anything yet, and if he wins the nomination only to get blown out in the GE when there are at least three other candidates who could win, then he would have changed things for the worse.

More importantly, I'm asking about Dean's policy proposals.

What are his concrete plans for change?

And if he doesn't have any, or doesn't have any that will really result in change, what's the use of voting for him in the primary?

[mouse7]

30. Desperate attempts at word play won't help you

You know all about Dean's plan to get health care for all Americans. You know where the web site is. You know how to read.

Acting like Dean's policy offerings don't exist is just stupidity. Nobody believes that. Everyone knows better.

Now, if you want to say that you support the ideas that Edwards has promoted, fine. No criticism from me on that.

However, if you continue to try to make this completely ludicrous argument that Dean policy proposals DON'T EXIST, you're going to damage your candidate. If people can't trust your word, they cannot trust anything you say when you promote your candidate. Edwards has scored a LOT of points because of the honesty and good character in the way it has run it's campaign. Don't lose that for Edwards here at DU.

[Mairead]

33. His plan will NOT provide 'healthcare for all Americans' and he says so

in the 'fine print'. His plan can be summed up as 'more of the same, and more expensive'. He plans to spend $88G more to cover 30M of the 40M people with no healthcare now.

All that does is funnel more of our money into the pockets of the hyperwealthy who own the insurance companies/HMOs. If he's correct and 10M will opt out, who will those 10M be? Well, they won't be the poor, you can bet on that. They'll be the wealthy and the health-privileged young. The cream. Which means that healthcare will resemble education: inadequate for the poor, marginal for the middle, and relentlessly attacked and starved by the wealthy. The status quo.

Such leadership. Such a deal.

[mouse7]

34. Maybe so, but you don't claim Dean never offered the plan

This isn't an argument about the plan itself. It's a question of whether Dean has made a health plan offering of any kind.

AP claims Dean hasn't even offered 3 policy proposals throughout the campaign.

For the record, I prefer Kucinich's heath plan, but I don't act like Dean never offered a plan at all because I think there are better health care plans.

[Mairead]

35. Perhaps you should re-read? AP's asked for 3 policies of CHANGE

Dean is the candidate of the status quo. There are no substantive changes to the Bush status quo in any of his policies. Or certainly none that I could find. If you can find them, please trot them out. And 'more of the same' doesn't count as a substantive change.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

42. I could name three concrete policy proposals of Edwards's which would

produce real change.

It's interesting that Dean's supporters can't state three concrete policy proposals by Dean that would result in real change.

Is it because he hasn't proposed anything concrete? Is it because the very few things he has proposed won't change a damn thing?

Well, he has proposed a concrete education program. However, that program will make things worse, in my opinion.

[AP]

41. Not only that, it wouldn't even pass. Health care industry is BIGGER and

WEALTHIER than the health care industry which stopped the Democrats attempts at reform in 93 and 94.

[Woodstock]

45. AP - what is Edwards going to change and how?

Every time I run across your posts, they are bashing Dean.

I have YET to find one single solitary post of yours promoting Edwards.

If there is logic to trying to get your guy attention by bashing someone else nonstop, please explain.

[blm]

40. Yes, Dean is dedicated to HIS campaign. He will do what it takes for HIM

to beat the other Democrats including lying about his opponents record and his own. He will keep insulting his audiences by making them think THEY have the power when he was kissing GOP and corporate ass for his entire time as governor.

He will tell people they have the power when he knows he can keep his REAL records hidden from them because real Democrats might not like how Howie pushed energy deregulation as governor and gave Bush's buddies the Koch brothers SWEETHEART deals on Vermont Yankee....that's a bit TOO ugly for REAL Democrats so he won't let them see the details BEFORE the primary.

[maddezmom]

19. glad they are communicating

They, being Terry McAuliffe and the Dr.:)

[RetroLounge]

28. Once again Dean speaks truth

Dr. Dean declined to answer reporters' questions about the latest attacks as he campaigned in Green Bay, Wis., and Detroit. In an interview with a local television reporter in Wisconsin, he said, "I'm not going to respond to Senator Lieberman," adding, "I think these guys are running a desperation campaign."

[Nadienne]

37. How does Dean explain this:

From an e-mail from the Kucinich campaign:

On Saturday, Dec. 27, the Concord Monitor in Concord, NH,
noted: "Dean recently mailed brochures to homes in
New Hampshire with a headline stating that Dean is the only
candidate who 'opposed the war from the start.'"

Dean is NOT the ONLY candidate who opposed the war from the start. Kucinich opposed the war from the start.

[blm]

48. and Dean supported the Biden-Lugar bill for use of force.

Not significantly different than the IWR, so he LIES about being the antiwar from the beginning candidate, too.

[Woodstock]

43. Terry McAuliffe is a LOSER - he should have stepped down

after 2002. Before would have been better - we likely wouldn't be in this mess.

[rucky]

47. Funny, Sharpton said essentially the same thing about the Black vote:

http://www.jsonline.com/election2000/ap/sep03/ap-democrats-sharp090903.asp

"We must not be in a relationship with a Democratic Party that takes us for granted. We must no longer be the political mistresses of the Democratic Party," Sharpton told the audience attending the first awards banquet for the Central Virginia Business and Construction Association.

"A mistress is where they take you out to have fun but they can't take you home to mama and daddy. Either we're going to get married in 2004 or we're going to find some folks who ain't ashamed to be seen with us," he said.


I don't find Dean's or Sharpton's statement to be particularly insulting. but the hypocracy...

[Merlin]

50. Howard needs a damn vacation. There's too much of this lately.

I used to be able to say his critics had nothing on him. Now that's not true. His indiscretions and outbursts are jeopardizing all he has accomplished, and risking our success against Bush.

Howard has got to get some rest and regain his perspective.

[BobbyJay]

51. It all sounds like sour grapes

boo hoo