3923 dead Americans is not a motherf**king "Jesuitical argument about what exactly was meant."

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Hillary Clinton Defends 2002 Iraq War Vote On Meet The Press

MSNBC | Domenico Montanaro | January 13, 2008 11:16 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/13/hillary-clinton-defends-2_n_81261.html



This morning on Meet the Press, Hillary Clinton defended her 2002 vote for the Iraq war resolution, saying that she "thought it was a vote to put inspectors back in" so Saddam Hussein could not go unchecked. She insisted that she and others were "told by the White House personally" that this was the purpose of the resolution, and cited President Bush's assurances to defend her position.

Moderator Tim Russert pointed out that the title of the resolution was the "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002." Clinton responded saying, "We can have this Jesuitical argument about what exactly was meant. But when Chuck Hagel, who helped to draft the resolution said, 'It was not a vote for war,' What I was told directly by the White House in response to my question, 'If you are given this authority, will you put the inspectors in and permit them to finish their job,' I was told that's exactly what we intended to do. "

[tekisui]

1. 3923 American Soldiers dead is a tragedy.

All who voted yes in 2002 showed poor judgment. And if they can't realize that now, after 3923 US dead, they still have poor judgment.

[thunder rising]

9. She's a lawyer and Senator that didn't read the bill and relied on a Republican White house

to define her vote and defend her. Well I guess that says it all.

[lyonn]

18. When you hire a lawyer to examine a contract you are about to enter

into, you expect the lawyer to Read the Contract. The devil is in the details.

[cali]

21. not mention the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians

who have perished. For me, that's even worse.

[tekisui]

23. Absolutely.

And the millions orphaned, the millions displaced, and the millions radicalized.

[Nimrod2005]

2. This is the same as "It is only a number!!!!!"

[OzarkDem]

6. Um, no it isn't

The argument was about the lies Bush told to Dems in Congress. Blame Bush.

[Nimrod2005]

11. She is still saying the same lies, like Bush...Did you see MTP this morning?

[OzarkDem]

15. Yes I did

and she said the same thing she and other Dems in Congress have said all along - Bush lied to them in order to get them to sign on.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

27. Um, YES IT IS.

She made an error in judgment that she is now trying to justify.

She made a mistake, and she wants a free pass.

It's the same.

[roguevalley]

37. she and the others were big boys and girls with good educations

and great staffs and supposedly half a wit. all who did this have blood on their hands and if I had lost someone in this war and heard her call it a Jesuitical argument, I would loathe her with the fire of a thousand suns. This is about judgment and decisions made that had real world consequences. she has as much blood on her hands as all of them.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

8. THANK you.

I was going to include that in my original post and thought "I want to see if anyone else makes this connection."

You DID, and I agree with it completely..."it's only a number" is not the kind of thinking I can get behind.

Let's try "I voted for the Iraq war and I f**ked up."

Nah, that's too big of a stretch.

:patriot:

[Faygo Kid]

3. Thank you. I hit the ceiling when she said that.

Any positive feelings I had toward her candidacy ended this morning. I remember 2002 well, and everybody knew PRECISELY that voting for the resolution meant going to war.

What part of "Authorization for Use of MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ Resolution of 2002" did she fail to understand?

This was an ugly statement on her part. This is not the "leadership" we need.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

12. That's the EXACT moment in which I wrote her off too.

I've tried to keep an open mind about ALL of this. My personal choice for the next President of the United States is John Edwards.

BUT...I've done my best to keep an open mind in regard to Hillary and Obama.

But this morning's little quote-fest pretty much killed any chances that I'd vote for Hillary in 2007, whether she's our nominee or not.

[OzarkDem]

4. Clinton was right on this one

I have pretty good recall of what was going on at the time. The Dems in the Senate were being told if they signed it would mean inspections would move forward.

If you want to blame anyone for the dead Iraqi's blame Bush for lying to Dems in Congress.

[Bonobo]

7. Whaaaat? That statement requires some kind of evidence -cause it's huge BS!

[thunder rising]

14. How about READING the bill???

[OzarkDem]

19. Pretty literal view

This has been rehashed many, many times since Bush lied us into Iraq. He lied to Congress (recall, that's why we want to impeach him?)

Yes, Dems knew what was in the bill, but under extreme pressure from the GOP and news media after 9-11, they tried to get assurances from Bush that he would continue with inspections as a condition of signing it. He lied to them.

Tell me, what would Obama have done in the same situation? We can only assume he would have done the same or would have refused to vote against it, as he has done with bills to keep funding the war.

Abstaining from voting isn't opposition.

BTW, Rove must be loving how all this is playing out.

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

40. Oh, literal-- you mean, like actually seeing what's in the bill

and asking some questions about the intelligence motivating it? Golly Gee, being a Senator and actually reading the text of war bills that one is voting on, who would have come up with that idea?

[cali]

22. garbage. But don't take my word for it

Here's Senator Leahy:

"Mr. President, declaring war, or providing the authority to wage war, is the single most important responsibility given to Congress under the Constitution. As history has shown, wars inevitably have unforeseen, terrible consequences, especially for innocent civilians.

Blank-check resolutions, such as the one the President proposes, can likewise be misinterpreted or used in ways that we do not intend or expect. It has happened before, in ways that many people, including Members of Congress, came to regret. That is why a thorough debate is so necessary. And that is also why this Vermonter will not vote for a blank check for this President or any President. My conscience and the Constitution do not allow that."

this is just a snippet. read the whole speech in which Leahy compares this resolution to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, and accurately forecasts the future of the Iraq debacle, here:

http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200209/092602a.html

[Hippo_Tron]

31. Yup, Leahy and plenty of others had the good sense not to fall for this shit

It's not fucking rocket science. Bush wasn't interested in inspections, he was interested in regime change. You really had to be blind not to see the ultimate agenda.

[sandnsea]

24. What about in March 2003

Just days before the invasion when she was joining Bush in threatening Iraq

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8

[Bonobo]

5. Now if she teared up over THAT, it would be a different story. nt

[tekisui]

10. Point well made.

She should tear up when she thinks of what her judgment votes have facilitated.

[Nimrod2005]

13. Bingo, that's what I said when she faked it...nt

[Amerigo Vespucci]

20. Holy shit, you NAILED it.

I know genius when I see it.

You just exhibited it.

DAMN. You're right...Chelsea is safe and warm and doesn't bear a single scratch from Military duty in Iraq.

Where's Hillary's loss? Where's her pain?

[Barack_America]

26. Wow. Excellent point.

She was completely unmoved by that tragic statistic.

[JVS]

16. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

[ellisonz]

Except for the...

Jews.

See the Black Death.

[gdaerin]

17. Ha! Good to know I wasn't the only one who caught that!

[Barack_America]

25. Would it kill her to just admit that she made a mistake?

Not knowing what you are (or could be) voting for is not an excuse!
I expect more discretion from my representatives, particularly when they are voting regarding war!

[Amerigo Vespucci]

29. We already have a president who can't admit mistakes...

...we DON'T need another.

:patriot:

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

41. Totally up with that

The entire Bush-Clinton-Bush collection has just been one unmitigated disaster as it is. This is not the kind of dynasty to be having here.

[hisownpetard]

42. OMG - if that doesn't sum it all up succinctly, nothing does.

:thumbsup: :hi: :thumbsup:

[Evergreen Emerald]

28. just keep distorting her meaning and twisting her words.

What a bunch of *$#Sholes.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

30. OK, the forum is yours. Explain to the "*$#Sholes" how her "meaning" was "distorted."

Three, two, one...

You're on.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

32. No response. Maybe smoke is being blown up our collective ASS?

Nah. I know sincerity when I see it.

:eyes:

[Evergreen Emerald]

34. Yes, I am sincere. But I won't jump on command.

You have the world at your fingertips. Listen to her statement on MTP. REad her speeches. REad her responses to the criticism. Rather than take words out of context to justify your closed-minded opinion, research.

I don't have time to enlighten someone who really doesn't want to be.

Your hatred and anger are misplaced.

Mine are not.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

35. "I don't have time to enlighten someone who really doesn't want to be"

Touche. All I can say is TOUCHE. You nailed it, you expressed yourselves, you ROCK, you have INSTRUCTED us...GOD, we BOW before you.

NOT.

"Your hatred and anger are misplaced.

Mine are not."

We have a new thing you might want to investigate.

It's called "grammar."

LOOK INTO IT.

[bvar22]

33. The Hillary defense of her Pro WAR vote:

I am NOT a Warmonger!

I am just an IDIOT.


Vote for Meeeee!

[Amerigo Vespucci]

36. Her "defense" should simply be "I...FUCKED...UP...."

But she is unable to do that.

So I'll vote for someone else, REGARDLESS of who the nominee might be.

[bvar22]

38. THAT is the Edwards defense,

and I am OK with it!~ :)
It really is not a difense.
It is an admission, and transformation BEGINS with Admission.

"I fucked up, and I am willing to make ammends".

While I don't totally trust him, I prefer to take chance on the Edwards promise to the Certainty of the Status Quo with Hillary/Obama.

[zulchzulu]

39. She's helped thousands of Iraqi moms and their children....meet their deaths

She cares so much about kids except when it comes to brown ones. They can go fucking die for all she cares. She sure looked cheap steak tough when she voted for Bush's war though.

She cares so much about mothers unless they are brown and from another country. For all she cares, she doesn't give a rat's ass that they die with the children in their arms. She finds such reality part of some "Jesuitical argument".

Let 'em die, Hillary! You win!