Obama's Past ..Open for Discussion

[Tellurian]

War opens with hints about ‘suspect’ backers..

WHEN Hillary Clinton warned that Barack Obama had not been thoroughly “vetted”, as she has been, she was hinting darkly at trouble to come over her rival’s radical pastor and shady patron in Chicago, the Illinois senator’s home town.

Clinton is convinced that her opponent will be eviscerated by the Republican attack machine should he win the Democratic presidential nomination. That, at any rate, is her camp’s excuse for doing everything it can to discredit him behind the scenes. The battle to tear down Obama and his claim to represent “hope” has begun.

His momentous victory in Iowa and his humbling in New Hampshire have launched a war of attrition between the two camps.

“We have to peel back his identity,” said one elderly white voter in South Carolina, a state Obama must win on January 26. “Did you know his middle name is Hussein? He is a Muslim and was raised in an Islamic school.”

"The same southern voter, who did not wish to be named, then threw another piece of Obama’s biography into the frame. “I looked at his church’s website. It said it was ‘unashamedly black’. They don’t want any whites there. I wouldn’t feel real comfortable if I tried to worship there.”

The unorthodox pastor of Trinity church is the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who is refusing all interviews. He married Barack and Michelle Obama and baptised their two daughters. He is already attracting attention on right-wing websites for describing the September 11 attacks as a “wake-up call” to America for ignoring the concerns of “people of colour”, and for claiming that Americans “believe in white supremacy and black inferiority . . . more than we believe in God”.

Wright travelled to meet Muammar Gadaffi, the Libyan leader, in the 1980s with Louis Farrakhan, the black supremacist leader of the Nation of Islam, and subscribes to the “Black Values System”, which preaches self-reliance but claims “middle-classness” is ensnaring blacks.

“When enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Colonel Gadaffi with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell,” Wright once said.

The other potential threat to Obama comes from the indictment of one of his leading donors, Antoin “Tony” Rezko, a Syrian-born property developer in Chicago, who is accused of extortion.

Rezko has been indicted by Patrick Fitzgerald - the prosecutor who brought down the White House official Lewis “Scooter” Libby and the press magnate Conrad Black - for seeking millions of dollars in kickbacks from companies bidding for state business in Illinois. He is due to appear in court on February 24.

On the day the Obamas bought a new home in Chicago for $1.6m in 2005, Rezko’s wife purchased an adjoining piece of land, giving the senator’s family more privacy and a larger expanse of green than they had paid for. Obama later paid $104,000 for a strip of the land, even though it was known that Rezko was under investigation.

The website www.hillaryis44.com widely viewed as an unofficial arm of the Clinton war room, has taken up the scandal with gusto and is offering a "Rezko for Dummies" guide on its site. “Imagine this,” it crows. “A Chicago politician wants things he can’t afford. Wifey likes expensive things and wants a big mansion to live in.”

"Bill and Hillary Clinton have worked hard to retain the affection and loyalty of black southerners. However, the former president’s suggestions that Obama is not all he is cracked up to be have caused some offence.

"In a remarkable book, A Bound Man: Why We Are Excited about Obama and Why He Can’t Win, Shelby Steele, a conservative intellectual who like Obama had a white mother and black father, writes that Obama’s iconic status as an inspirational African-American also represents his biggest weakness.

Steele argues that Obama offers white voters a chance to free themselves from white guilt, but if he becomes too specific about policy or shows flashes of anger about injustice, they recoil. Obama looks “messianic” set against “the shame of America's racial past”.

If you are an icon, he writes, “you have thoughts to touch everyone’s base, thoughts that recognise and flatter everyone.

"But you have few visible convictions”."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3177684.ece

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

2. I understand you're a conservative dem

and unlike others I don't think you should be completely marginalized. I do think the website you so proudly support is repulsive.

I can't imagine being proud of crap.

"The website www.hillaryis44.com widely viewed as an unofficial arm of the Clinton war room, has taken up the scandal with gusto and is offering a "Rezko for Dummies" guide on its site. “Imagine this,” it crows. “A Chicago politician wants things he can’t afford. Wifey likes expensive things and wants a big mansion to live in."

Shameful.”

[Adelante]

3. Enjoy your day, Tellurian

:hi:

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. Correct response

:hi:

[cloudythescribbler]

30. How does one determine that? (I'm a computer dolt) .... nt

[sunonmars]

4. This is what i dont get about Obama's supporters

They cannot see the potential fallout from even the slightest part of these allegations. They really are living in a kumbaya world if they think the RW attack will not fling all of this and more and make it stick.

3 Words

John Kerry 2004

except Kerry didnt have half as much baggage as Obama will be seen to have.

[cali]

5. of course the repukes will use this shit. Hell, Clinton supporters

and surrogates are and have been for a couple of months. And it may or may not stick. But if you think Hillary "high negatives" Clinton is going to get a free ride, you're living in your own fantasy.

And Clinton has both old and new baggage. I think she'll get the nomination, but she's loosing a vital piece of what she needs to win. She's pissing off the AA community, young people and union members. It'll get worse. Can you imagine how dems will feel about the Clintons if she loses to John McCain?

[goldcanyonaz]

6. It's a double edged sword, because one can't win without the white vote either.

[cali]

7. Of course. I'm just pointing out that it works both ways

and I'm pretty sure that Hillary will be the dem nominee. I'm no longer sure she can win.

[goldcanyonaz]

9. From the looks around here, neither would win. We* are just as divided as before.

*We, meaning the supporters of Obama and Clinton.

[juajen]

50. I didn't realize you were ever sure she could win?

I might be confusing you with someone else. When were you convinced she could win?

[karynnj]

14. This implies that this slime is needed to win the white vote

If HRC is worthy of being President, she can run a positive campaign on her record. She had the media and the party behind her as the inevitable nominee. If with that, she and BC need to go negative, it says something - and it is not pretty.

There have been no stronger supporters of BC than African Americans and this pattern of attacks has to be a slap in the face for many of them.

[indimuse]

8. The point is..

It's Not how we feel here at DU..we most of us do our homework and get it...I believe Obama has the right ,,just like anyone else to attend any church or pray to any God he desires... See,,it's out in the real world...where people watch reality shows..fox...game shows only pay attention for a second yo politics ....they only know what the rumor mill has spit out! Obama is NEW to most folk across this country as much as you nd all his support GET IT and his message...If he is chosen..as I have stated many times..GAME OVER! It's not just Obama..It's Michelle ..It's under every crack and crevice of his life...why do you think they have not kicked up the on slot of material they hold....The media is a cruel and disgusting arena.. they thrive on histria and msinfo...they can manipulate anything and ANYONE! Obama has been intentionally allowed to escape their wrath... Obama has many unanswered issues that WILL surface. Perception Perception Perception...


Peace.

[fedupinBushcountry]

10. WTF?

You know I am not behind anyone as of right now but.... when I read crap like this it turns me off to certain candidates. Politics is ugly and no matter WHO the Dem is they are going to be piled on by the right. Hillary is no different. Are you actually saying that Hillary has no baggage, she is above the fray? Wow, I think you are living in a fantasy world of your own.

IMO the Hillary supporters think this is going to be a cakewalk for her, well I think you better think again.

[karynnj]

12. You can go further

John Kerry did not have a tenth as much baggage as either Clinton. If you're concern was to get a candidate with little baggage, the Clintons would not be on the short list. (PS I know there are many RW lies, I am not speaking of them)

2004 actually said something different. Kerry was relatively clean as politicians go and his actions in the anti-war movement were things he is and should be proud of, as was his service. There were people who disagreed on his protests, but that was an argument he could win. (In fact, a WWII vet relative, who backed the war in Vietnam, took the time in spring 2004 to actually read the entire transcript from 1971 and for that reason this Republican backed Kerry, which shocked us. He said he saw where he was coming from and that his motives and methods were good.) What happened was that when they couldn't win fighting the truth, they opted to create fiction.

Your comment is unhelpful as it makes the SBVT the victors - Kerry, you say, had baggage.

[sunonmars]

13. Did I mention Clinton

I said Obama supporters will not face the fact he has baggage, they just wont, we all know Clinton has, its out there, Obama's is not which makes it all the more dangerous.

[Tellurian]

38. Exactly True..

and why the Obama supporters continue to attack the "messenger". They don't know the answers themselves or don't care too!

[Bishop Rook]

17. If this horseshit is the best the RW has to throw...

Then, to quote a terrible, terrible man... "Bring 'em on."

[karynnj]

11. I remember long ago Tellurian posts saying that it was wrong to mention anything negtive in the

Clinton's past - and there were things that all of us know to have been true. It, you said, could hurt the Democratic nominee, which in 2006 - she was not. Yet, here you are printing slime about Obama. You quote a "conservative intellectual, who is taking a generic comment - that I do not thing is true - that an icon can have few visible convictions and then make it specific to Obama. But MLK, Ghandi, Abraham Lincoln, etc are icons AND they all are known for their convictions, which were and are very obvious.

You also link to Hillary44, which you describe as the unofficial arm of the Clinton war room. I hope it has NO connection to Clinton as it has engaged in swiftboating. Bill Clinton has whined and spoken of "swiftboating of HRC" a breath after speaking of the other Democrats who were criticizing, but not swiftboating, HRC in unison, which is the norm against the frontrunner. Now, who was the guy whose mo was to accuse others of what his candidate was really doing?

Did you ever think that winning this way, if they do, may destroy their chance to do anything good. It says something that many red state Democrats are publicly endorsing Obama.

[Tellurian]

44. Can you provide a link to your assertion, Karyn?

your memory tends to be selective at opportune times.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bishop Rook]

16. Now that's some cognitive dissonance

“We have to peel back his identity,” said one elderly white voter in South Carolina, a state Obama must win on January 26. “Did you know his middle name is Hussein? He is a Muslim and was raised in an Islamic school.”

"The same southern voter, who did not wish to be named, then threw another piece of Obama’s biography into the frame. “I looked at his church’s website. It said it was ‘unashamedly black’. They don’t want any whites there. I wouldn’t feel real comfortable if I tried to worship there.”

Ouch.

"He's a Muslim, and he's also a radical black Christian!"

[Vinca]

18. That "same southern voter?" Listen to the Washington Journal

and every day you'll hear at least one of these "same southern voters" who are batshit crazy. Somewhere in the south there is an institution for women where they're allowed to use the phone before medications are passed out.

[Bullet1987]

19. New Person to put on my IGNORE LIST!!!!

[Vinca]

20. Not that I really care . . . but what did I say that offended you?

I'm quoting from the OP and if you listen to the WJ you'll hear them. (In fact, I've taken to doing a great imitation of them when they come on.) One day one of them actually spoke against healthcare for little kids saying the parents shouldn't have them if they can't take care of them and that she sure as heck (actually "hay-ull") wasn't going to help them out. And it goes without saying if you're "an illegal" you're Satan according to these crazy women.

[William769]

21. Of course it should be open for discussion, thats what being veted is all about.

And he doesn't seem to be doing very well with it either.

[Didereaux]

22. if Clintons teenage support of Goldwater is fair, then Obamas coke sniffing is as well. All or none

[OzarkDem]

23. True or not, the GOP will bring this up

if Obama makes it to the GE. How does he plan to deal with it when the media coverage won't be as favorable?

[robbedvoter]

24. Well, yeah, but not the lies...Faux concotions that have been debunked et al

[ProSense]

25. John Kerry says

STEPHANOPOULOS: But a lot of Democrats are worried he just can't get there. And one of the arguments the Clinton campaign is making -- you say that he -- one of the reasons you support him is because he wants to end the politics of swiftboating. One of the arguments of the Clinton camp is that he will fall victim to the politics of swiftboating, that he's unknown, untested, not tough enough.

KERRY: No, he won't, nor will any Democrat ever again. And you're looking at the person who understands that better than anybody. We made the miscalculation that we had answered the lies enough. They were answered. They were answered, contrary to myth on day one, instant one. Counter press conference.

And the mainstream media wrote the truth. But unfortunately, when lies are put out on television sufficiently and unanswered sufficiently, they can make a difference. That will never, ever happen again, not to Barack Obama...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though Barack Obama is brand new?

KERRY: ... not to Hillary Clinton, incidentally, either. Whoever our nominee is, I intend to fight like crazy, and I will lead the effort personally.

Video
Transcript

[Didereaux]

27. can someone interpret what Kerry said in that link?

[ProSense]

28. Here,

from Comprehension for Dummies: Assholes will get smacked down!

[Didereaux]

31. My how very civil, definitely within DU guidelines for Obama supporters

[ProSense]

32. What's the problem? That's where I got the information. n/t

[Didereaux]

33. you are kidding of course?

[ShortnFiery]

26. How about Hillary's past of personally intimidating "her husband's" former lovers?

Now that's a study of smarminess most extraordinaire. :puke:

[sufrommich]

35. Can you find a non-freeper link for that?

Shades of Vince Foster.

[SteppingRazor]

34. The idea that Hillary supporters would actually push the lies in those e-mail forwards...

is, quite simply, nauseating. Obama is a Muslim who was raised in an Islamic school? Seriously?

Hey, did you hear the one about how Hillary had Vince Foster killed?

What garbage.

[Hello_Kitty]

49. Yet amazingly, he is a Black militant Christian too. nt

[SoxFan]

36. "unofficial arm of the Clinton war room"

So, Tellurian, are you finally admitting that your favorite smear web site is connected to the Clinton high command?

Stay classy, Chappaqua.

[Tellurian]

43. I like the sound of that..."War Room!"

If you can prove your assertion His44.org is a smear site, I welcome your posts!

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CyberPieHole]

39. Obama must be vetted. So, yes, it's open to discussion.

The MSM will not give him a free~ride for long, specially if he's the front runner. And if he gets the nomination you can be sure these issues will be brought up.

[hedgehog]

40. You know, if you're going to attempt a smear, at least you can get the story straight.

Obama wanted to purchase the house, but the owner would sell only if the adjoining lot sold at the same time. Rezko's wife bought the adjoining lot. Later, Obama bought 10% of the adjoining lot at 10% of what Rezko's wife paid for it. The remaining parcel is still open for development.

Here's what everyone misses about this story. Obama, a US Senator, graduate of Harvard law school and married to another Harvard lawyer, couldn't come up with the additional one million dollars to buy the adjoining lot. Apparently, he's not too good at lining his own pockets!

Here's the house in question:

http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/42182/

[CyberPieHole]

41. Didn't know Obama and Louis Farrakhan are so close...

They are virtual neighbors (according to your link).

Rezko has been indicted. Obama has admitted he made a "mistake" in dealing with Rezko. No matter how you spin it Rezko/Obama are linked together.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/184540,122306obama.article

[hedgehog]

42. I can't tell if you're serious or not, but a lot of people live within a half mile of Farrakhan

BTW - did you hear about the secret tunnel connecting the houses so Obama can get his orders from the international Muslim terrorists without anyone being the wiser.......

[Tellurian]

46. I heard the tunnel went directly underground to Rezko's home..

is it True? I have no idea. Maybe a knowledgeable Rezko affiliate can shed light on the subject, while Obama continues to remain silent.

[PresidentObama]

45. An OP post with Hillaryis44 as a source of info in it. NEXT!

[Tellurian]

51. So, what about www.Hillaryis44.org?

[AX10]

47. K/R

[killbotfactory]

48. It's nice to see an "unnofficial" arm of the Clinton war room

willing to blatantly lie about Obama and repeat the muslim smear. Awesome!

[Tellurian]

52. Where has His44 repeated/ insinuated Obama is a Muslim?

It appearers you are the smearer attempting to smear www.Hillaryis44.org

[citizen snips]

53. Did Obama vote present many times when he was in the state senate?