Obama made a STUNNING mistake tonight near the end of the debate.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

He tried to minimize the idea of terrorism by talking about terrorism fear and saying "some of that's understandable"...........BUT. Followed by giving perfunctory lip service to 9/11.

Democrats are thinking about WINNING against McCain right now. They want someone who knows how to answer the question the way Clinton did right after Obama - slam Bush for using fear as a political weapon in the same sentence as acknowledging REAL threats.

[AX10]

1. You should see Karl Rove.....I mean, David Axelrod on MSGOP....

trying to spin everything in Obama's favor.

[EffieBlack]

3. How DARE he!?

Since when does a candidate's top strategist publicly spin a debate in his candidate's favor?

:sarcasm:

[AX10]

9. But spinning a win when your guy got his ass kicked..

makes one look like a fool. Also, Rove appears more confident than Axelrod.

[EffieBlack]

21. Who got his ass kicked? I didn't see ANYONE get their ass kicked tonight

At least none of the three Democrats who debated. Now, some Republicans . . .

But that aside, why do you CARE? This is politics. Politicians and their operatives spin. They all claim victory. That's how it's played. If you are so convinced that Hillary won, that she kicked Obama's ass, in your words, why do you even care that one of Obama's people is claiming otherwise?

If you're so certain that she won, why not sit back and savor the moment and her victory and stop whining and worrying about what other people are saying about it?

[anamandujano]

31. Bush got his ass kicked tonight,

by all three of them.

[EffieBlack]

39. Exactly!

[Renew Deal]

8. Yes, Hillary's lobbyist is doing great

:rofl:

[AX10]

15. Your state gave her an massive mandate last year.

Obama has many lobbyists too.

[Renew Deal]

20. uh huh

lol

[EffieBlack]

40. Do you mean the former Secretary of Transportation?

He's not Hillary's lobbyist. He's one of the most highly respected men in public life.

[babylonsister]

2. It was really STUNNING, not just stunning? Pleeze, you're so predictable. nt

[rodeodance]

4. I think terrorist threats a real concern for many--regardless of cheney/bush bashing

us all the time--people are not dummies--they can see thru bush now

[durrrty libby]

5. Axelrod and Trippi look dopey and lame up against Rodney Slater

[TeamJordan23]

11. You mean that Lobbyist, Rodney Slater. nm

[journalist3072]

29. Rodney slater was an OUTSTANDING Secretary of Transportation during the Clinton Administration

I have a lot of respect for him. He did an amazing job as a Cabinet Secretary.

[EffieBlack]

41. THANK you!

[durrrty libby]

42. The guy is all class. This is just a bunch of sour grapes. Pathetic

People around here act so ignorant. It is shameful

[journalist3072]

46. Totally, totally agree...you know, President Clinton brought Rodney Slater with him from Arkansas

I believe Rodney Slater worked for then-Governor Clinton in Arkansas...and President Clinton realized this was someone who knew what he was doing...who had already proved himself with a record of accomplishment in Arkansas...and so he called him to serve the entire country, and he was a wonderful Transportation Secretary.


The DUers trashing Secretary Slater should be ashamed of themselves.

[durrrty libby]

48. It says so much about the Clintons that all these years later

Rodney Slater is still so loyal to them

He is an impressive guy. I hope we get to see more of him

[EffieBlack]

65. SO true

Thank you!

The knee-jerk reaction that some people here have to certain things is really pretty amazing.

[wiley]

54. Correct. Rodney Slater is, and has always been a class act

And if they had let him and Wes Clark and associates handle Katrina, we would be living in a much better country right now.

[elleng]

59. Louisiana Gov did, I think, hire Wes + Rod

to help, by retaining JL Witt to do some work after Katrina. There must be something in that Arkansas water!

http://www.wittassociates.com/1205.xml

[wiley]

60. It was considered but I believe stomped on by some Helluva job associated

people who thought the team too Democratic. I also believe they did not want to see the gulf coast recover too quickly, at least not before parcelling out the goods to political supporters.

[babylonsister]

12. Pssst! I think your dawg is laughing at Rodney. nt

[JackORoses]

18. right up until Slater got busted for being a Lobbyist

whoops!

forgot to take that off the resume, eh Rod

[EffieBlack]

37. Rodney Slater is the former Secretary of Transportation, a man of great accomplishment

He was born dirt poor in Arkansas, picked cotton as a child, attended segregated, inferior schools, yet managed to go to college, where he excelled. He worked his way through law school and after law school, rose up through Arkansas government. He is a man of unquestionable integrity and is greatly respected around the country.

Frankly, I'm sick of this knee-jerk bashing of "lobbyist" as if it's ipso facto a dirty word. There are many people in Washington who register as lobbyists because they advocate for legislation as part of their work - Secretary Slater is an attorney working for a major law firm that includes a government relations department, so it is perfectly normal for him to acknowledge that he's lobbyist in order to ensure that he's staying within the law and reporting all of his contacts with legislators, limited though they may be. That does not make him or all other lobbyists crooked or evil or contemptible.

It's ironic that, in the midst of a heated argument about who was more responsible for the passage of the Voting Rights Act, so many people either have forgotten or just don't know that, while Lyndon Johnson, Martin Luther King, and many other civil rights activists were instrumental in the Act's passage, it was a LOBBYIST who probably should get most of the credit for this achievement. Clarence Mitchell, the NAACP's Washington Bureau director and their long-time lobbyist, was known as "the 101st Senator" for his strong presence, brilliant legislative strategizing, and effective lobbying for critical civil rights legislation. Among those who were there and/or who have studied and know the real history of this period, Clarence Mitchell - "the Lion in the Lobby" - gets most of the credit for the enactment of these laws.

Lobbying ain't a bad thing - ALL Americans have the constitutional right to seek redress from their government. The problem is not the lobbyists, but the money that a small number of greedy and corrupt lobbyists have been able to use to leverage their influence.

Now, if Matthews or anyone else can point to any questionable or dirty clients that Secy. Slater has represented or any legislation that he has tried to get passed that was harmful to the interests of ordinary people, that's another question. But throwing the term "lobbyist" at someone as an ad hominem attack that somehow invalidates any viewpoint they may have is tired.

[durrrty libby]

43. Thank You EffieBlack. Fabulous post. It deserves its own thread

:toast: :hi: :loveya: :woohoo: :applause: :woohoo:

[EffieBlack]

44. Thank you. I may do that.

I really appreciate your post.

[bellasgrams]

47. Thank you EffieBlack I wish there were more people like you

on this board. Very good, and I'll bet this didn't all come from reading it in a book. Like Hillary and others you've probably learned from living through it. Experience counts.

[EffieBlack]

50. That's very kind. Thank you.

[Cameron27]

58. Thank You!!

What a fantastic post, if only I could recommend! Wow!

[avrdream]

64. Thanks for keeping things in perspective.

Not enough of that these days on DU.

(And you know what is funny about all this banter? None of us are changing anyone else's mind on who they will vote for. We here at DU made our decisions ages ago.)

[OzarkDem]

26. Slater was rude

Talking over the other guy and not letting him answer is so yesterday.

[Bluerthanblue]

6. That is your perspective- I think

that was one of his best points.

To trot out 9/11 for it's political fear factor points, is just prostituting the victims and their families over and over again.

Speaking for myself.

peace~

[TwilightGardener]

7. What's McCain's creds on stopping terrorism? Um... none. People

aren't going to be swayed as much by that this year, and Obama has always addressed the issue responsibly, without fear-mongering. Hillary, however, does like to pull out the Al Qaeda card when she's desperate.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

19. Agree none but tell that to the MSM and voters eom

eom

[Quixote1818]

10. That was where Clinton lost me. She sounded way too much like Bush

Obama had a much more calm, steady, in control presence. I felt like he would handle the situation in a calm reasonable way and use good judgment and not just want to go blow something up and put up dead or alive posters.

I think the Country is fed up with the cowboy talk.

[OHdem10]

13. I liked the way Hilary said she would be calm and deliberate

about Terrorism--not always invoking fear andusing it as a political
tool.

[Cha]

27. Oh, somebody told hillary to stop

being such a freakin' fearmonger? Cause she's been known to pull out the fear card when she thinks Obama is climbing in the polls.

[JackORoses]

14. some fearmongering is understandable

using it to take us into a War
or to score Political points against a competitor is dishonorable and dishonest.

[hisownpetard]

16. It wasn't a mistake at all. I think he answered honestly and well. And what qualifies you to tell

us what it is that Democrats want to hear?

[JackORoses]

25. his answer was the perfect sound byte and is already going into circulation

you will see it again

It is a great contrast between Obama and the politics of Fear employed by Clinton and Bush.

[rodeodance]

28. show down--IP made a valid point--

[ozone_man]

17. Hillary showed herself to be the fear candidate.

I'm surprised she didn't mention 911 a few times.

This is the Democratic primary, not Republican. We don't have to use fear tactics.

[AtomicKitten]

22. He was referring to the fear-mongering Hillary engaged in.

That's not only NOT a mistake, it was calling her on her bullshit.

[mtnsnake]

23. I thought the mistake he made was when he kind of generalized about African American dads

Maybe I heard it wrong, but if I didn't, I think a lot of African American fathers are going to take exception to his comment.

[journalist3072]

30. You didn't hear wrong, and I picked up on that too....

[AGirl]

34. exactly, I know he is trying to win some ponits

in favor of african american women, but he hurts one of his strongest supporters, black males..

[dkf]

52. Isn't he an African American Dad?

:shrug: :shrug:

[NJObamaWoman]

63. Yes and he did not hurt this group.

Obama was trying to tell black males that it starts with them. If they want their kids to achieve great feats then black fathers have to take their role seriously.

[NJObamaWoman]

61. Most African Americans Know This.

I don't think he will lose African American men because most people in this community know that this is very true. This brings us back to the fact that their are too many AA males who are lock up in prison. These men are not able to be a father to their children. On the other side there are tons of AA men who reproduce at a rapid rate and are not taking care of their kids. Barack hit a home run on what has been a recurrent theme discussed in the black community today.

[itsrobert]

24. He also tried hypothetical questions on Terrorist Groups running amok in Iraq

against John Edwards. It ended backfiring on him as Edwards hit it out of the park.

[Lucinda]

32. We'd be fools if we didn't look at the candidates and evaluate them based upon

how we think they would handle national security or unforeseen emergencies.. such as attacks or national disasters.

And it's NOT fear mongering to point out we live in difficult times and that voters should take EVERYTHING into consideration.

[dailykoff]

33. That horse died along with Rudy's candidacy

Some time ago. Just in case you didn't get the memo. :hi:

[ripple]

35. As opposed to Hillary implying that there will be an attack

if anyone but her is inaugurated????

You go Hill-girl. :eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. If you post gutter trash flamebait for a week

Your analysis is taken much less seriously when you come back and pretend to be impartial and objective.

It's called shooting your personal credibility to complete shit. Welcome to it, flame warrior.

[Pirate Smile]

38. A thread for you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4081159

[mtnsnake]

45. Not even close

[Hatchling]

49. Nope. He didn't. nt

[Bonobo]

51. Boo hiss.

[dkf]

53. I liked his answer.

He looked very Presidential to me tonight. Very reflective and calm.

I liked it.

And it is funny you say Hillary was slamming Bush for using fear and acknowledging real threads, cuz I thought she was fear mongering myself.

[Samantha]

55. His point was that being terrorized by fear of attack can lead

one to make a mistake in judgment. Fear compromises decision-making. He used Iraq as an example.

Why do you see this as a stunning mistake? I thought it was an excellent point. In fact, it is something we have often discussed here at DU, the fact that people were more vulnerable to going along with George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq, because they failed to reason through that decision-making process logically. In some instances, fear hampered their ability to reason.

[autorank]

56. "...slam bush for using fear..." and then identify Bush as the real threat.

He and his cronies are the real threats.

They've killed, wounded an orphaned millions in Iraq (see blow) and they're not stopping.

This approaches or probably is a war crime.

If anybody on the internet right now thinks we, as a nation, will skate on this level of death
and suffering, they're woefully confused.

There's a real world out there, we live in it, and we're finding out the reaction to
the carnage that the White House and the enablers committed. We are hated.

Who cares what Bill Clinton says about terrorism? His record is part of the big picture.
The high estimate of children dead due to the heavily backed UN sanctions against Iraq is
500,000, the mid range 300,000. That's a lot of dead kids. Do you know what Madeline Albright
said when asked if the the sanctions against Iraq were worth all those dead kids:

Leslie Stahl: "We have heard that a half million children have died (as a result of sanctions against
Iraq). I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"

Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth
it." http://tinyurl.com/2dvjr7

So who are the real threats? Where do they live? How many more deaths do we need until we stop
worrying about sounding "right" instead of telling the truth.

The citizens of this country don't support any of this but it will continue, to our detriment, as long
as people fail to tell the truth.

[BenDavid]

57. he also made a mistake when he could not explain too well

what he meant by "will leave the hard stuff like running the government to people "smarter than him." Plus he did not come across too well trying to explain what he meant by "doesn’t have the experience to run a bureaucracy". HRC posed this in one of her answers about being able to be president from day one....

[Thrill]

62. Just ignore this moron. His sole purpose is to try and slam Obama

Your act is getting old