GDP in nuclear meltdown...

[mckeown1128]

Everyone one has lost their minds tonight... so Obama credited Reagan with uniting people.... he was telling the truth... just look at the election results in 80 and 84... for the love of GOD... get over it already... there like 8 posts from one person on the main page about this... yes..yes.. we know Reagan had fucked up policies...but that doesn't mean he was unsuccessfully in pushing those fucked up policies... get a grip people...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. "get over it already"... I am starting to think that's the Obama campaign slogan

[Bluebear]

5. "Get a grip!"

Just get the BAM and shut up already.

[sjdnb]

15. I was thinking the same thing...Anyone who thinks Reagan accomplished anything, ever

... as an actor, husband, father, politician, President, or person -- is seriously in need of further education. He did far more harm than good ... although, barely conscious and never 'engaged' ... but, fortunately for his 'legacy', was 'bailed' out by others and circumstance.

[jackson_dem]

35. Reagan didn't even recognize his own son at his high school graduation. What a callous dick he was

[Recursion]

46. Umm...

Anyone who thinks Reagan accomplished anything, ever as an actor, husband, father, politician, President, or person -- is seriously in need of further education.

Ummm... you're joking, right? The man who represented conservatism throughout Nixon's triangulating, redefined the American political spectrum for a generation, and remade the image of the presidency in the television age? I think a lot of us at DU have some wishful thinking going on here. The man was incredibly talented, and unprecedentedly effective.

And if past threads are any indication, people will somehow take what I just said as an indication that I need to be educated in how bad his policies were. I don't. I lived through them (somehow). But this ridiculous attempt to deny Reagan's skills and to deny the extent to which he did inspire people is just silly.

[PresidentObama]

2. Yes lets all praise the guy who united America by fucking America up, and hid it behind a warm smile

[Bluebear]

3. Reagan UNITED people? He was telling the TRUTH? Get OVER IT??? Silence = death

[mckeown1128]

19. as strong as your reply is...it is off the topic at hand... nt

[donheld]

68. No that poster was dead on

I'm sorry you don't get it. You have some homework to do.

[ClassWarrior]

21. I think the poster was saying Obama was telling the truth.

Wow, how do you walk with your knee violently jerking like that?

:eyes:

NGU.

[Bluebear]

64. Wow, thanks for the nice insult after knowing me on here for 4 years.

You didn't happen to see any HIV threads going on at the same time, did you? Whatever, ciao.

[LittleClarkie]

40. He united enough people to get elected in a landslide. I think that's what Obama admires.

And it's Obama who is telling the truth, not ol' Ronnie.

[TwilightZone]

4. No offense, but Reagan was responsible for destroying the economy, among other things.

It's his bullshit economic policies (and Bush I and II's continuance) that have us in the debt hole we're in today.

[mckeown1128]

9. I agree with every thing you just said.....

but he was successfull in the sense that he did what he intended to.

[TwilightZone]

12. Charles Manson did what he intended to. Does that make him successful?

[mckeown1128]

17. we are talking about uniting the country around a cause....

Manson didn't have the support from the american people like reagan did. I NEVER said Reagan did good things.

[TwilightZone]

24. It depends on what you think of the cause.

Personally, I find it difficult to find anything he didn't screw up - the economy, education, taxes, deregulation, etc.

[jackson_dem]

41. So did Hitler. Does that make him someone to be used as an example?

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

14. Yeah but he lied so well and the people ate it up.

[Silence Dogood]

6. Reagan was a criminal. Remember Iran-Contra?

[mckeown1128]

13. Yes, I know he was a criminal....that isn't what this is about... nt

[CreekDog]

7. he united America against the Democrats

i thought we weren't supposed to like that around here. :shrug:

[mckeown1128]

25. Don't you want Obama to unite America against the Republicans? nt

[CreekDog]

29. yes, but that's not what Reagan did

:hi:

[mckeown1128]

38. ohh I was just agreeing with your earlier post about reagan...

I guess your right Reagan didn't unite anyone...that is why he lost his elections by such huge margins :sarcasm:

[CreekDog]

45. i said he united people against Democrats, that's not reason to praise him

If Obama unites people against Republicans, that would be reason to praise him.

I'm against confusing what Obama wants to do with what Reagan did.

Now, head on over to RU. :hi:

[Clarkansas]

8. This Reagan thing is one of the biggest non-issues ever to earn 1000 threads on du.

It is really quite silly.

[OzarkDem]

16. Welcome to DU

[Bluebear]

18. Well, you've posted that a couple of times, haven't you?

[gmudem]

39. Well he's making a perfect accurate point.

This is just another instance of DU making Mount Everest out of a molehill.

[billbuckhead]

10. The Obama cult crucifies Hillary for telling the truth about LBJ/MLK

:tinfoilhat:bama lies about what a great guy Reagan was for no good reason except pandering and the :tinfoilhat:bama cult takes another big swig of Kool-aid:spray: and defends this empty suit of a candidate. Maybe BO should go back to Harvard and study history for awhile before he comes back on the national stage.

[AX10]

36. Obama knows his history.

He is a showman and nothing more.
He is kissing Grover Norquist's ass by saying this.

[Tulkas]

44. The problem with the LBJ/MLK comment imo

It seemed to give more credit to LBJ than to MLK.


I agree Pres. Johnson did a fantastic job and showed both great courage and conviction when it came to civil rights. Dr. King, on the other hand, risked and ultimately sacrificed his life for what he believed in.


It was the civil rights activists that began the movement and made the legislation that followed possible.

The actions of the government reflected the movement in the nation. The civil rights movement did not come into being because of the legislation.

I phrased that poorly, so let me try this.....


Horse = civil rights movement
Cart = civil rights legislation


The Horse pulled the Cart, the Cart did not pull the horse.


She put the Cart before the Horse.




ALSO, Obama did not lie about Reagan. Everything he said was accurate. He did not say "Great Guy" or anything like it. He did not insult Reagan (much) but I don't think he praised Ronnie either.


As far as being an "empty suit"

At least he built his own political machine and did not inherit it from a spouse or parent. We have seen what a terrible president a family member who gets help like that can be. Hillary would be a terrible president. Deal with it !!!

[sniffa]

74. And you missed yet another oppurtunity to say Barrack Hussein Obama.

You're slipping.

[OzarkDem]

11. Reagan lied to the public and sold them a bill of goods

He appealed to their lesser selves and made them think racism and prejudice was acceptable. I guess you would call it uniting through dishonesty. Not praiseworthy nor worthy of modeling for a Dem presidential campaign.

[Jamastiene]

20. I've held my tongue on this whole Obama thing until now, but

I don't trust any Democrat who touts Reagan or his policies as a good thing in any way shape or form. There is just no way in hell I can trust him after that, not that I trusted him before that either. I certainly won't be giving him my ear a second time after that shit though. Don't like it? Get over it already.

[ClassWarrior]

22. Show me where he said Reagan's "policies" were a good thing.

A link will be fine.

NGU.

[jackson_dem]

43. He said liberalism had gone too far and that is part of why Reagan won

It is in his book.

[Recursion]

47. He said people thought liberalism had gone too far

And he was right, a lot ofpeople thought that in the early 1980's, which was a large part of why Carter carried WV, MN, GA, MD, DC, RI, and nothing else.

People were disappointed with progressive politics and Reagan led a national political realignment by articulating a narrative describing that realignment and effectively communicating it to the nation. Similarly, people are currently disappointed with conservative politics and Obama is hoping to lead a national political realignment by articulating a narrative describing that realignment and effectively communicating it to the nation. They're both "big picture" kind of guys, not wonks.

ON EDIT: my bad, Carter took Hawaii too.

[mckeown1128]

23. He never touted reagan's policies...I would love a link....nt

[BootinUp]

26. What does it say about a Democratic candidate when he has to reach to

the legacy of a republican to make his case. P fuckin U. My pary sucks I know, I'll be more like that guy over there. Please vote for me in the primary Mr. Independent.

[mckeown1128]

30. Did he say "P fukin U" and all that??

Or is that just a straw man argument that your using agianst him. Reagan still polls high in this country. If the dems start calling Reagan the fucking anti-christ(which he is) than we will continue to lose elections to the repukes.

[OzarkDem]

33. It says he's a DLC'er n/t

[BootinUp]

42. He is attacking the originator

so its a damn sight worse imo.

[Zynx]

27. United people in greed and mistrust.

That was ultimate divide and conquer. He made everyone mistrust eachother. He destroyed the cooperative spirit in true Republican fashion.

[Xipe Totec]

28. The same can be said about Chimpie and 9/11

And Hitler in Nazi Germany.

9/11 gave the chimp the highest approval rating of any president, including Regan, and it made him successful in pushing the most fucked up foreign and domestic policies in more than a century.

Uniting the country is not necessarily a good thing.

[OzarkDem]

31. To be fair, most Obama supporters were still in diapers

during the Reagan years. Kids, if you want to gain some political cred, take some time to learn who were some of the worst enemies of our country.

Remember when Reagan's Atty General Ed Meese said "the Bill of Rights was just an amendment to the Constitution". He felt it wasn't a real part of the Constitution and could be repealed. St Raygun and his gang were famous for being strict interpreters of the Constitution and bred the gang of criminals that were elevated in Bush's administration.

[jackson_dem]

32. Ask gay people and black people how much Reagan "united" people

In particular ask someone who knows someone with AIDs or lives in Philadelphia, Mississipi.

[LittleClarkie]

34. I prefer the term "hair on fire"

It's so much more... picturesque.

[Zorro]

37. If someone thinks Reagan united people

they must be too young to remember the Reagan era. There are a lot of people he didn't unite, and I'm one of them.

Reagan was a stupid fuckstick and a corporate tool. I remember him as an asshole even before he became the governor of California.

He has helped to significantly contribute to the decline of this country.

[Recursion]

48. Two pictures:

Reagan convinced a large majority of the country about his message. Period. And for all of the 1980's the Left absolutely failed to come up with a coherent, let alone inspiring, counter-narrative.

Don't tell me how bad his policies were, I know. But he convinced a whole lot of the country they were good. He realigned the political system and changed the narrative and debate for a generation to come.

[billbuckhead]

52. Raygun did this by starting his campaign in Philadelphia Mississippi

and using the hostages in an arms deal with Iran. By this standard Hitler was great as well.

[Recursion]

53. Sigh

By this standard Hitler was great as well.

And?

[billbuckhead]

54. When will Obama praise Hitler, Mao, Franco and all the other agents of change

Just because they made the trains run on time doesn't make them good.

[Recursion]

60. It's not about "making the trains run on time"

I mean, the man wasn't an iron-fisted dictator and he didn't really "do" much. He wasn't even awake in most cabinet meetings. He was not a policy President, and that worked well because people viewed Carter and Mondale as wonkish micro-managers who were too lost in the minutiae of policy to actually come up with and effectively communicate a message.

I mean, honestly, what do Presidents actually do? It's a communications job.

[sjdnb]

49. Just read an excerpt from Obama's book ... and, IMO, you're obscuring

the truth about what he said about Reagan to minimize it. Everyone should just check this book out at their library and read/interpret it for themselves.

Edited to read obscuring vs obfuscation - because you're not just trying to confuse, you're obviously trying to hide.

[killbotfactory]

50. This thread proves your point

[William769]

51. Silence = Death.

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. Successfully pushing "fucked up policies" makes him someone to emulate?

[Recursion]

62. Umm... yes

The key is "successfully". Obama was comparing Reagan to Nixon and Clinton and pointing out that Reagan achieved a fundamental shift in the national debate and national consciousness, which neither Nixon nor Clinton did. That's what Obama wants to do.

[EFerrari]

56. You get a grip. For Obama to hold that murderous felon up

for any reason is f#cking disgusting.

You want to get in bed with Reagan and Obama, go for it.

Fucked up policies, baloney. He got people dead.

[killbotfactory]

57. Not you, too

For fucks sake, Obama wasn't "holding Reagan up" he was explaining his appeal and how he got people to vote for him.

[EFerrari]

59. Because there aren't enough other role models to chose from.

Yes, me, too.

I can't throw a rock in my neighborhood without hitting a family that lost someone to fucking Reagan.

[killbotfactory]

61. Reagan changed the politcal landscape in this country

I thought that was undeniable. Acknowledging that doesn't equal praise.

[EFerrari]

73. Reagan is why 9/11 happened, if you think through his policies.

I don't give a damn if Obama snorted coke while dancing naked on the interstate.

But his reaching out beyond the Democratic base via the myth of Ronald Reagan is nauseating.

[autorank]

58. The Iranian students who held the hostages so long united America

I was alive and paying attention then. It wasn't Reagan who did that. It was the constant reminder of a humiliation and the kidnapping of 50 or so U.S. citizens. Get that one straight. Reagan was close, thanks to turn coat, hypocrite John Anderson, but it was no lock. The final even with the hostage issues was Reagan about 2.5 million above Anderson + Carter (the anti Reagan vote). How is that uniting the country.

2004 - that's another story. In year two of his term, his popularity sucked then he was shot and it bounced considerably, but by 2006, the tide had turned and he was not liked.

It's the myth making that brings him back up the ladder and the guy was very charming when he told a story. Four years of above 50% is not exactly a galvanizing force or record.

[pingzing58]

63. If young inexperienced Obama does not know of the pain and suffering he caused so many of us because

his deception of U.S. citizens by trading weapons for hostages and financing right wing death squads in Latin America (just ask Oliver North about all this) while thousands, I'm saying thousands lost their lives to the so called "Reagan freedom fighters" in Nicaragua, El Salvador and Chile, there is no forgiveness for this! By mentioning Reagan's name Obama is siding with Reagan and that is intolerable and unacceptable for someone who wants to represent true Democrats and the rights of the poor.

[balantz]

65. Piece-O-Shit Reagan sucked, and will always suck, especially to a true progressive!

And Obama has thoroughly shown what he is made of to me, which is a whole lot of empty suit ready to be filled by the corporate fascist agenda that will rule through his stammering philosophical talky-talk as they politically mow his ass down while he stutters his dream of hope and unity speeches to his googly-eyed folks. He thinks he will get in there with all these back-room deals and table-talks and bring everyone together because he is so shining spectacular for all Americans. Frankly I think there is some egotistical blindness lurking within the great uniter. I'm sorry, he scares me, and I am just letting my nice dam break because I think people need to hear it from observers on the outside of the Obama bubble. I am AFRAID for America, and the future of my children, and we need to seriously consider who will hold the reigns of power in this oligarchy that needs to be completely turned over. And no I am not racist, or sexist, just truly progressive and scared shitless at what I see.

[gateley]

66. Obama didn't "praise" Reagan any more than Hillary "said LBJ, not MLK, furthered

the Civil Rights Movement."

I've posted several threads on NEWS, important links to first-hand reports from Pakistan, etc., with absolutely no response. It seems people are expending all their energies into proving their candidate right and the other candidates wrong. I think that energy could be more wisely spent elsewhere, rather than bickering.

[Azathoth]

67. The Clintonites are scared

The manufactured hysteria coming from their ranks is hilarious. Obama's comment that Reagan was a more transformational president than Bill has sent them over the precipice into oblivion.

[Kucinich4America]

69. Ironically enough, Reagan would be proud tonight.

He spent 8 years trying to end this planet in a nuclear meltdown. At least he finally accomplished doing so at DU.

[eridani]

70. So Obama want to unite us some more to fuck over average people? n/t

[Luminous Animal]

71. Nah..

He wants us to draw inspiration from a cynical politician that ran an "optimistic" racist campaign. Thank heavens Reagan inspired and united all the bigots to vote for him. (both Dem and Rep). Now Obama can tout the vision thing and maybe pick up a few Republican voters to boot!

[killbotfactory]

72. No, he wants to be the progressive reagan

Get things back on the right track, and swing the "center" back to the left, the way Reagan swung it to the right.