Evan Bayh for VP

[ButterflyBlood]

This is probably my only real fear about Kerry. It's all rumors, but Bayh was also considered in 2000.

[LibDemAlways]

1. Bayh is a repuke masquerading as a Dem. If Kerry picks a repuke lite as a

running mate, he'll be making a serious mistake. He can't afford to have too many progressives sit this one out.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. Bayh is EVERYTHING the New Democratic Party stands for

He's *perfect*.

[Crunchy Frog]

2. I'd vote for Kerry over Bush

even if he picked Zell Miller as his running mate however, I think that Bayh would be a really terrible choice.

I picked the third option offered.

[LiberalFighter]

3. I will vote for him again for Senator

only because he is better than any repug in this state.

But I will do everything I can to prevent his nomination as VP.

In addition, if he becomes VP then it will be difficult to elect another Democrat for that position.

[mac2]

11. I felt this way about VP Lieberman....

I think, he lost Gore a lot of votes in the Conservative MW and south. I hated both their Faith Based programs. I held my nose and voted for them because, I knew what a Bush would bring to this country.

[Indiana Democrat]

21. What?

Lieberman GAINED votes for Gore in the "Conservative MW and South".

[Protagoras]

31. Lieberman was the worst choice since

Eagleberger...but Bayh might give him a run for the money.

[AntiCoup2K4]

4. "Hell Fucking No" isn't even strong enough.

How about "I would rather walk through downtown Hell in a gasoline suit". :puke:

[Shanty Oilish]

5. The Kerry - Buh-bayh ticket

Who'd that appeal to? Where's the advantage?

[atre]

6. If Bayh is the VP nominee, Kerry can say Good-"Bayh" to my vote.

nm

[ButterflyBlood]

7. apparentely some think it'd put Indiana in play

n/t

[blackcat77]

9. No it won't. It might be worth 5 pts but that's not enough.

Hoosiers will not vote for a New England liberal no matter who his running mate is.

[mac2]

10. What? IN farmers aren't hurting under Bush?

What's wrong with an NE liberal? They prefer a NE NAZI called Bush?

[LiberalFighter]

40. Are you dealing with closed minded hoosiers

When Congresswoman Jill Long was running for re-election in '94 her Mark Sauder received the endorsement of the Indiana Farm Bureau. This was despite the fact that Jill grew up in a family farm, managed a farm, was on the Agricultural Committte and supported the farmers. She had received their endorsements earlier only because they felt she wouldn't lose.

A lot of farmers for a long time have been fighting changing the time zone here in Indiana. I wonder if they think that the cows won't know what time it is for the milking?

[salin]

53. in the general population of Indiana

the rightwing cultural agenda has taken a great hold - stronger than even in the Reagan era, where in many parts of the country (not just farmers in Indiana) the question about people voting against their economic interest was often raised.

The difference in state-wide races (which have been tipping democratic) has to do with the funders in Indy who are generally republican but business centrists who do not like the potential economic instability that could be brought by the social conservatives within the party. Thus in 2000, a relatively unpopular Governor (seen as benign but donothing, fairly or not), got the backing of the monied folks over the republican candidate who represented the more radical wing of the republican party. Hence - in local congressional races the more extreme republicans get elected (over all, I think this side of the party has voter dominance in the state) - but in statewide elections the campaign money goes towards the moderates (of either party.) Since the voters (extremists) in primaries have trended towards going for more extreme candidates... the moderate democrats have been winning.

All that said - the monied donors (businessmen) may be able to tip state-wide elections, but I don't think they could impact a national ticket. THus the balance is gone - and the edge goes to the candidate selected (voted for) by the more extreme social conservative voters in the state.

[mot78]

15. Indiana hasn't voted Dem since 1964

Bayh would alienate too many liberal voters.

[Protagoras]

32. I loathe Geppy but if we've got to put a state in play

Then it would make a hell of a lot more sense to get Missouri that we know we have a shot at.

[salin]

54. I would agree

even with my belief that Gep was never a strong strategists as a house leader (going back to his majority whip days) - and we need a strong leader in the VEEP position to help work (or stand-down politically as may be the case) Congress. Gep would be MUCH better than Bayh in this capacity... AND could bring votes - and, due to the Union strength (long time ally), he could bring votes beyond the state of Missouri.

[salin]

52. That puzzles me, as well.

Yes Bayh is popular in Indiana, and in the senate he is safe (no major republican candidate has declared). However he is not more popular than bush. Bush has come through Indy about three times in the past year (mostly to prop up his "man mitch" for a gubinatorial run) - and has had a huge reception, esp from the Indiana monied folks who tip elections (including prefering centrist democrats to more radical republicans... but - who percieve mitch as a centrist republican (what? but they do!). Bayh would not help democrats carry Indiana. Things would have to get much worse economically before that would be likely to happen.

So Bayh brings no states - he doesn't bring Ohio, or Michigan, or Illinois (those states ignore us, except for big-ten collegiate play). Bayh perhaps alienates some voters who stay home.

Where is the advantage?

[blackcat77]

8. I'm from Indiana and...

...I'm sorely tempted to vote for the Pub next time he runs just to send him a message.

His dad must be ashamed.

[Indiana_Dem]

13. Me, too, blackcat n/t

[Voltaire]

22. Me THREE Blackcat

Surely the presumptive, oh-so-more electable than anyone else John Kerry can do better that Evan Bayh for a running mate. I swear, if I didn't live in the 7th congressional district and can vote for Julia Carson I would NEVER have any national Democrats to vote for!

[LiberalFighter]

43. Anyone viable running against Julia?

Will it be easier for her to win in her new district?

[LiberalFighter]

42. My suggestion...

would be to organize a no vote on Bayh within one county or one congressional district. That would be an anomalie that they would notice and put out feelers to find out why it happened.

The only problem is that he still has coat-tails and they may be needed to elect Kernan for Governor.

[lcordero]

12. FUCK THAT

I ain't voting for Kerry under no circumstances, and with Evan Bayh on the ticket I would make sure to vote Republican for the rest of my life in hopes that it'll speed the fall of the Republic:grr:

[Leilani]

14. I will support Kerry over Bush

but I Really hope he doesn't choose Bayh.

I don't like the guy, & I don't see what he adds to the ticket.

However, the Talking Heads keep mentioning him, so maybe they know something.

[LiberalFighter]

44. Talking heads don't know diddly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cosmokramer]

16. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

Bayh can't even win his home state, Indiana.

It is very firmly a RED state, and it won't go Bayh on any ticket.

Kerry won't put anyone on the ticket that can't easily win his own state.

[Hippo_Tron]

17. If it meant him winning his home state, that would be one thing...

But Indiana is going to go to Bush. I say, Bill Richardson all the way.

[RummyTheDummy]

18. No way....

Richardson is too porky.

[LiberalFighter]

45. The only thing that Bayh might be able to accomplish

as a VP candidate would be to force Bush to campaign in the state more than they had thought necessary.

[Indiana Democrat]

20. Looks like very few people here actually WANT to beat Bush...

...Based on the results of this poll.

Senator Bayh may not be too popular here, but he is in the real world.

[Protagoras]

33. How is he in the real world?

nt

[salin]

56. Maybe in your neck of Indiana

but not in mine. Even among democrats, Lugar is much prefered for his and his staff's more intellectual approach to public policy... actually considering issues ... and the sense that even when he votes the other way - that he had thought long and hard about the issues (as evidenced by his not so infrequent role of offering moderating amendments to improve legislation - oft in a direction that makes legislation more moderate.)

[hippiechick]

23. Bayh is a pretty boy in an empty suit ...

(Just like Indiana's other Veep, Dan Quayle) whose gotten where he is off his daddy's name (Just like the Boy King).

And the Dems would WILLINGLY pick a dud like this for Veep?

GAWD I hope not !!!


:hippie:

[DaveSZ]

24. No way

The guy is endorsed by the PNAC folks. He's a Neocon pretty much.

[LiberalFighter]

46. There is a difference between Bayh and Quayle

Quayle is an idiot... Bayh is not
Quayle is incompetent... Bayh is not
Quayle is a repug... Bayh is a Democrat even though not in Birch Bayh's footsteps
Quayle is a dud... Bayh is about half-way between a dud and brilliant
Quayle was worse than all of the Indiana delegation... Bayh is better than most of the Indiana delegation

[Donna Zen]

25. Hell fucking no!

Although either Kerry or Edwards is perfectly capable of doing just that...toeing the party line. This decision is now "inside" the power structure which does not necessarily focus decisions on winning, or who can best govern. So look for the actions of lobbies, the trial lawyers association, and the high rollers to make this decision.

[bushwakker]

26. He brings nothing*

[tedoll78]

27. I'll take it. Please consider why:

Bayh is a figurehead. The VP would have three jobs, if he/she's lucky:
1) Have a pulse
2) Go to funerals of foreign dignitaries
and, most importantly,
3) HELP WIN OTHERWISE DIFFICULT ELECTORAL VOTES.

With Bayh's 11EVs from Indiana and Gore's 260EVs, we win automatically. And with Bayh on the ticket, we probably win Ohio's 20EVs also, which come-in handy for if we blow it in, say, Minnesota and/or Iowa.

My point is that Bayh would be a great strategic choice. Not as liberal as we'd like, but we can take solace in reminding ourselves that the TOP of the ticket - the guy actually calling the shots, signing/vetoing the bills, naming court nominees, I might add - will be the uber-liberal.

I want to win. I want Bush gone. Badly. I want a 6-1-2 Liberal-Moderate-Conservative Supreme Court. And this is a fine "sacrifice" for those ends.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. You're Using Your Head.......That's Not Allowed Here......

NT

[tedoll78]

38. Yeah..

it's always been a weak point for me.. damn cranium.. :)

[LiberalFighter]

48. The only way anyone from Indiana can effect the outcome...

of neighboring states to vote Democrat would be populations that are near those borders and are effected by the political views. Those populuations would have to be major enough to effect the outcome. Living in Ohio while working in Indiana... Living in Ohio and receiving news accounts from the tv network and/or print media from the Indiana side that was at least independent.

[salin]

57. Except of course... he won't bring Indiana's electoral votes.

It only works in calculations if the assumption is correct.

[Zynx]

28. NO!

It wouldn't bring us Indiana anyway and would make the ticket Republican-lite.

[JPJones]

29. Opinions of Joe Kernan, Dem. Gov. of Indiana

Vietnam vet, POW, mayor of South Bend for 9 years, Lt. Gov. for 7 years, became Gov. upon death of O'Bannon in '03.

[diamondsoul]

37. Love Kernan, but we need him to Govern.

If Kerry chose Bayh, my vote would belong to Nader, sorry. I despise Bayh and I've made sure he knows it. No way in hell do I want him anywhere NEAR the Oval Office, and especially not first in line to inherit it!

[LiberalFighter]

50. Let your local county Democratic Party know your views on that too

Get on board with meetups... if there is a Dean get together they need to organize to help determine the VP...

Talk to your local Democratic elected officials about this issue too. They can forward those concerns to the District and State Party.

[fujiyama]

30. No thank you..

Bayh really doesn't bring anything much to the ticket.

First off, he's way too conservative and he'd cost too many votes among liberals. That would be pretty insulting to the liberal base, and I'm as ABB as it gets.

Second, he's dull. He's no more exciting than Kerry is. I have seen him interviewed a few times and while he's a nice clean cut white boy from the midwest, there are no other "southern coattails" he brings in that he still has no southern accent.

Third, it's no given Kerry/Bayh would win Indiana.

I would go with Graham, Edwards, or Clark . I would also consider Harry Reid or some other lesser known possibilities before Bayh.

[mvd]

34. I don't think he'd be a disaster, but like some here..

I prefer someone with more livliness.

[LiberalFighter]

51. I agree...

Bayh does not have any spirit.

He has a nice clean cut appearance.
He has a very attractive wife.
He has twins after his wife suffered a miscarriage. That I am sure elicited sympathy from the Hoosiers.

That is all he has. Not enough!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. If Kerry-Bayh Has The Best Chance Of Beating Bush-Cheney Bayh Is OK With

Me......


I find it laughable that DUers are pissing all over Evah Bayh...

Maybe they would rather have Dan Quayle as the junior senator from Indiana since Dan Quayle became the junior senator by beating Evan's father, Birch for being too far left for Indiana...

The political orthodoxy on this board would be funny if it wasn't tragic....


Go Dems....

Brian

[salin]

58. the complaints you see

especially those from Hoosier DUers - is the opinion that Bayh would NOT help the ticket. So stuck with a mediocre veep candidate who does nothing to improve the chances of winning... leaves us exactly where?

Bayh is NOT more popular in Indiana than Bush. Bayh events do not draw the crowd (or money) that bush has drawn in THREE visits to indiana in the past year (to pump up his "man mitch".)

If Indiana had been a swing vote state - then the presumption that he could swing the state would have some validity. But we are not - at the top of a national ticket - a swing state. The part of the republican party that hold voter numbers and power - is decidedly social conservatives - they may go for Bayh as Governor or Senator... but they will not leave Bush at the top of a ticket for Bayh at the second spot.

Thus - no value added by Bayh.

It is insulting to assume that all of us saying this - many with first hand experience with voting trends at local, state and national office levels - are saying so because we don't want the democrats to win. Please listen to what I am saying... I want the demcrats to win. Above I even state more support for Gephardt (who I personally don't like) - as he could bring much more to increasing our chances of winning.

Dismissiveness is often incorrect.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Two pro-war moderates on the same ticket? Makes my Green vote easier.

Democrats = Liberals? What a laugh.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. Why Vote For Nader?

Eliminate the middle man and vote for Bush...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. I'm voting for the Green candidate. Nader is running as an independent.

Why don't you vote for Bush? You seem to like the guys who voted with him on the the IWR and Patriot Act. I can guarantee that the Green candidate (whoever it may be) didn't.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. The IWR Was A Loser....

The Patriot Act passed the Senate 99-1...

It's hard to blame anybody for voting for the Patriot Act during those heated times immediately following 9-11...

We need a united front against Bushco just as the left needed a united front against the Nazis....

Bush and Cheney make Kerry and Bayh look like princes....


Peace


Brian

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. The IWR was a loser? Then why did they both vote for it?

Bush and Cheney make Kerry and Bayh (and Edwards, Gephardt, Lieberman) look a little less bad than Bush & Cheney. And, that's all.

I hope that the Democrat wins. If Kerry or Edwards had had the backbone to vote against the slaughter in Iraq, they would have had my vote despite their other failings. I can not forgive them for authorizing the massacre of thousands of Iraqis and the deaths of Americans for political gain. Their votes displayed a lack of ethics and courage so egregious that it is beyond the usual cries for nose-holding unity and "they aren't as bad" drivel promoted by the DLC bosses.

But, rest easy, I live in a "safe" state with a senator (Murray) who had the guts to vote against the IWR and Rep (Baird) who did likewise and will get my vote.

[salin]

59. But Bush and Cheney win Indiana over Kerry Bayh

Bush and Cheney are going to win Indiana period.

Why not look for tickets that will win states that really are in play.

Florida with Graham.
Missouri with Gephardt who has the added advantage of bringing some union heavy swing states (Ohio, WVa) with him.

Bayh makes it more likely that we lose.

[kichigai usagi]

60. The only reason the repugnicans

carry Indiana every time is because the other 60% of the hoosier vote is split between the Democrats, greens and libertarians. That is why the Neo Nazi Repugnicans win the state while only getting 40% of the vote. And since we have noe say in the primaries until the selection process is over, we hoosiers are left with whoever lasts the longest. Basically, no one gives a rat's ass about Indiana or her citizens.

[salin]

63. do you have any numbers that reflect that?

not doubting you at all, have just never heard this assertion and would find the numbers very interesting (and informative to those who are crafting various campaigns.)

[JasonBerry]

61. Bill Nelson of FL. will be the Veep -- IMO -- n/t

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

62. suprised at the anti-Bayh sentiment.

I voted no too, because I don't think he'd add much to the ticket (I dont think he'd carry Indiana, even if he was on the ticket).

Im not too concerned about him being not that liberal, though.

[Cuban_Liberal]

64. Nice guy, decent senator, HORRIBLE choice for VP!

:scared: