Mailing my ballot on Monday. Vote will not be for Hillary....but not because of her..

[madfloridian]

...because of those around her who are hurting our party.

My absentee ballot is on my table, waiting for me to mark the ovals on it. I want to make it clear that I have some I prefer over her, but my concern is not so much with Hillary Clinton. It is with those with whom she surrounds herself. There are several I am concerned with, but the main one is James Carville. There are some things that are so outrageous and so off the wall, that they are unforgivable.

Right after we won in November 2006, he called the New York Times on his own, unsolicited. He dissed the DNC, and he said the RNC did a better job.

James Carville makes an unsolicited call to the NYT to diss Dean

“The R.N.C. did a better job than the D.N.C. this year,” Mr. Carville said, referring to the Democratic National Committee.

He said Democrats succeeded because the party’s House and Senate campaign committees compensated for what Mr. Carville described as the shortcomings of the Democratic National Committee, allowing the party to take advantage of a wave of voter resentment directed at Republicans.

That was not all. Ryan Lizza of TNR reported a conversation by Carville

Says James Carville, one of the anti-Deaniacs, "Suppose Harold Ford became chairman of the DNC? How much more money do you think we could raise? Just think of the difference it could make in one day. Now probably Harold Ford wants to stay in Tennessee. I just appointed myself his campaign manager."

NOW....you would think that would be bad enough. But, no, there is more. From Crooks and Liars, the video of Carville on CNN saying Dean caused us not to win the election by more, and praising Rahm. He called Dean "Rumsfeldian".

Carville blasts Dean on CNN

Now even that was not enough. James Carville had a long interview with Gentleman's Quarterly, and things got even uglier.

Carville implies Rahm and the Clintons may be on board with his Dean attacks.

When I ask if Rahm agrees, Carville says, “It’s not any secret that Rahm has expressed disdain for Dean and not very secret that Rahm and I are close. It doesn’t take a lot of dot-connecting here.”

What about the Clintons, who, given Hillary’s presidential ambitions, have more cause for concern about who runs the DNC in 2008? “Let’s just say nobody has called me telling me this is a bad idea. Sometimes silence is eloquence.” Not only did Carville’s coup fail but it arguably strengthened Dean, who, speaking before his state-party allies, mocked the attempt as a desperate attack from the “old Democratic Party.” Cutting his losses, Rahm quickly leaked word to the press that he and Dean had negotiated a truce.

But there was yet another one:

What on earth has gotten into James Carville?

Democratic strategist James Carville says his party should dump Howard Dean as chairman of the Democratic Party because of incompetence.

..."Asked by a reporter whether Dean should be dumped, Carville replied, “In a word, do I think? Yes.” He added, “I think he should be held accountable.” He added, “I would describe his leadership as Rumsfeldian in its competence.”

Now you would think by this time, with so many bloggers and others associating Carville with the Clintons whom he openly supported at the time....you would think someone would speak up and tell him to hush.

You would be wrong. Not a peep.

Those attacks were really on the grassroots and the bloggers and the people of the party who really worked to get Dean elected. It was a way of telling us we were not welcome nor did we belong in the decision making.

Now we find he was there in Nevada in the car with Bill Clinton. As of yet no one in that camp has backed off from his attacks. Nothing. Not a word.

Carville in Nevada with Bill Clinton

PAHRUMP, Nev. But the ground game of Sen. Hillary Clinton is operating at top form, and "Hillaryland" took on its own hue in the campaign's closing hours. Color it brown, after the Clintons' intense and visibly successful courtship of the Silver State's large Hispanic community.

New polls showed Clinton narrowly ahead. With Ragin' Cajun consultant-turned-pundit James Carville in tow, ex-President Clinton drove out in the desert to this retirement community Friday with a message: Don't believe the good news. "Who will win depends on who wants it the worst," he declared.

Carville says he is not officially working with the campaign. But riding the car with Bill Clinton on caucus day in Nevada qualifies for being part of the campaign.

In addition I found these words at News Busters. I don't link to them, but it would be easy to find.

...."If the president said to me, ‘look old pal, we really need you to come on board, he and I and the senator would have that conversation,’” Mr. Carville said. “But I haven’t had a single conversation with anyone in the campaign about coming in and working in a formal way on the campaign.”

So yes, he appears to be part of the campaign most likely unpaid. But he still has his slot at CNN, he still goes to colleges to speak with high fees. He still often disses Dean at those college arenas.

I don't get to pick the nominee in Florida. It was not the DNC who did that, it was her campaign chairs here who led the way.

I don't get a voice in picking the nominee, but I can vote my conscience. It will not be Hillary. It will not be because I don't think she would be a good president.

It is a deeper reason. The reason goes to the root of a party in the process of eating its own. James Carville is one of the worst examples of that. He is the reason I will not vote for her here in the primary.

Please note I am presenting facts, things he did and said. I am not making a personal attack.

To keep him so close to them after he publicly, openly, and on numerous occasions accused the party chairman of terrible things....shows that Hillary's campaign approves of what he did.

My ballot will be mailed on Monday. I will have voted the best way I could.

In the general election...I usually come through for Democrats.

[sandnsea]

1. Why don't you hold her accountable?

She isn't some 20 year old caught up with a drug runner boyfriend or something. Of course she's accountable. She could kick them all to the curb if she wanted to. Hell if she did, and really stood up and denounced all this garbage, I might just stand with her in the end. I don't understand the timidity people have with making her responsible for her own actions. Is everything that goes wrong in her presidency going to be Bill's fault too?

[madfloridian]

2. Actually I thought that is what I said. I blame her for the company she keeps.

And my vote won't count but I will vote against her in the primary anyway.

Florida has been through too much for me to feel very nice toward people like that.

[sandnsea]

3. You said "not because of her"

I'm hearing you say that she's a good person who just hangs around a bad crowd. If I misunderstand, please correct me.

I am baffled at the number of people who know what she's doing and still support her (not you, others). I'm wondering if they aren't holding her responsible, for reasons I haven't thought of. Since you seemed to allude to that thinking, I thought maybe you could enlighten me.

[madfloridian]

4. I'll try.

I don't have to like her to realize she would better to vote for in the GE than any of the Republicans. I have reservations, a lot of them.

My main problem is who she surrounds herself with. It really does bother me a lot.

I don't think the other issues would keep me from voting. In fact I probably would just vote in the primaries against the amendments on the ballot.

So I am specifically voting against her in the primary because of Carville, and others.

[sandnsea]

5. Oh she's better than any Republican

I just don't separate her from who she surrounds herself with. I see it as choosing to surround herself with hatchet men and con men, which doesn't bode well for her administration. I hate that we are where we are. :hi:

[madfloridian]

6. Agreed. I wish my vote meant more.

I know I am very tired of the political games when our country is hurting so badly. I just pray for someone to stand up against Bush.

[madfloridian]

9. The more I think about it, you are right. I should have said it more bluntly.

I should have phrased the post differently. She is responsible for keeping people like Carville around. He should not be still included in her campaign if she values the rest of us who support Dean's efforts to spread the power to the parties in the 50 states.

She could have told him to stay away, that he had insulted a huge group of Democrats....not just once but over and over and over.

He put a damper on our celebration of a big win in 06.

You are right, I was trying to be too nice in my phrasing.

Hillary needs to let people like Carville out of the campaign...now. He does not stand for the good in our party...and he hurt all of us.

As long as she has him representing her, then she is thumbing her nose at those of us who wanted Dean as chairman in the name of change.

And what's more, her wing of the party could stop a lot of the insulting comments toward Dean and DFA people here in Florida. They could stop it in its tracks.

[Meldread]

7. It is an attack on us.

Carville, the DLC, the Clinton's and those generally on the Joe Lieberman side of the Democratic Party hate Howard Dean because we put him there. They have always hated the base and more specifically if they had it their way every liberal in the blog-o-sphere and every member of DU would mindlessly cast our votes and forever remain silent. They do not want us having a voice in the Democratic Party.

If Hillary Clinton wins I am confident we are going to be shut out. Even though Hillary and Obama are nearly identical policy wise this is the main issue. Obama is firmly in the Howard Dean camp, the DNC camp, and Hillary is firmly in the Joe Lieberman, the Carville, the DLC camp. It is a war between these two factions and whoever wins the nomination will decide who controls the party.

[madfloridian]

8. Carville was never called out on his insults....perhaps it led to Florida's insulting

comments publicly by public figures. They are never told by party leaders that their statements are insulting....and so it continues on and on. I think Carville set a tone that is being continued in Florida. The insults to the party chairman are insults to those of us who wanted real change in our party, a stop to the move to the corporate side.

Florida's leaders openly and publicly insult Dean, just like Carville did. If there are no Florida bloggers counteracting the effort, and no party leaders saying stop the insults...then they continue unabated.

Orlando mayor say Dean not welcome in Florida

Two other major Florida leaders have spoken rudely as well. Two other party leaders in Florida said he was not welcome.

I find it embarrassing for my state to act like this.

First was Mike Suarez, former chair of the Hillsborough DEC.

Meanwhile, the primary controversy isn't keeping Howard Dean away. He's scheduled to be in Tallahassee Oct. 9 for a $100-per-person fundraiser. (Suggested amount..not required)

Hillsborough Democratic chairman Mike Suarez burst out laughing at that news Tuesday.

"I'm not too sure that he's the best person to be doing fundraising in Florida at the moment," Suarez said of Dean.

And Steve Geller, Dem Senate leader was rude.

Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller, who on Wednesday labeled Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina “terrorist, rogue states” for coercing Democratic presidential candidates not to campaign in Florida in advance of its Jan. 29 primary, on Thursday announced he will not be attending a Tallahassee fundraiser held by the head terrorist himself, Democratic chairman Howard Dean.

“He’s welcome in certain, small enclaves of the state,” Geller told the Q. “If you don’t have something nice to say about someone, you shouldn’t say anything at all. Therefore I will not go.”

Geller's insults

There is a pattern that started in November with Carville right after the big win for Democrats. That pattern has continued in my state.
Yet we are told to stay on board, don't say things to hurt the party.

Someone in another thread asked if I like any Democrats in Florida. Well, yes I do....but they are the ones with no more voice than I have.

Carville's condecending comments were not stopped, and the lack of respect for our wing of the party continues.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

10. I have to agree

The people working for her are quite questionable. Carville has also slammed Howard Dean as well... even though Dean's 10 times better than Terry McAuliffe. It's practically cannibalism.

I do not understand why people are supporting her? I cannot get my head around it.

[pingzing58]

11. I really appreciate the reflection you made to come to your decision. I remember the days when

we waited for our local party leaders to tell us who to vote for. I laugh now at how in the dark and uninformed we were kept. Gone are those days and while some/many(?) on the DU might not agree with your decision I applaude the process. Thanks for your posts.

[Dr.Phool]

12. I sent my ballot in 2 weeks ago.

I voted for Edwards, but almost voted for Dodd, because of his FISA stand.

Hillary and Bill hang out with the worst elements of our party, and I won't vote for her. Period.

I'm fed up with the DLC, and Republican lite, "new democrats". They think we'll support them because we have no where else to go. Not anymore for me.