Bill Clinton can be very uplifting and inspirational. He could have helped his wife potitively

[Armstead]

He could have been the Good Bill and helped to elevate his wife in the campaigns, and probably won over a lot of fence sitters. In the process he could have also raised the profile of the Democratic Party in a positive way.

Instead, The Clintons' Campaign chose to let the Dark Bill out of the basement. The whiny angry bad-tempered Bill who sees the world in terms of "with us totally or against us." The Bill who will say or do anything -- including lies and character assisination -- to get what he wants.

The Bill who isn't afraid of scorched earth, and who isn't afraid of tearing the Democratic Party asunder if it has the nerve to challenge his wife and his own personal power.

Hillary could have avoided the personal nastiness and pettiness of the current primary battles. But she either chose to hide behind her husband -- or didn't have the ability to control him. Neither possibility says much for her.

This aspect of the Clinton dynamic is NOT what the Democratic Party or the nation needs for another eight years.

[babylonsister]

1. Amen. Their tactics leave a LOT to be desired. I am no fan, and

seeing what's been happening has reinforced my reasoning. 4-8 years of this? Ugh.

[calmblueocean]

2. I feel pretty much the same way. Bill has lost an aura of statesmanship that he'd recently gained.

I think the way he advocated for Hill tarnished his luster as a figurehead for the party, and brought back a lot of old memories some of us were trying to forget.

[Fluffdaddy]

3. Though it all I like Bill. If only because the GOP could not stand him

and he kicked their ass twice

[THUNDER HANDS]

4. yup

Evil baby, and lovin' it.

[Nimrod2005]

5. He lost the respect of many many Democrats

[UALRBSofL]

9. I'm sorry you feel that way

In all honesty I don't feel the Clintons have distorted the facts any more then the Barack Campaign. If people would do fact-checks on statements that both Barack and Clinton have made they would actually discover both candidates have made statements that were true but taken out of context. I'm sure Barack supporters as well as Hillary supporters have a list of fact checks they could list on this thread, I know I do. That said, I don't see any justification in posting a thread about the Clintons in a negative light as distorting the truth when statements Barack has made on the campaign trail are also distorted. I believe a tit-for-tat is counterproductive.

[Armstead]

12. IMO their lies about Obama's comments about Reagan and the GOP were unforgivable

The Clintons speaking lies and running a radio ad lying by saying Obama was endorsing the policies of Raygun and the GOP was one of the worst examples of outright lying and mud slinging I've ever seen from a Democratic campaign.

[krkaufman]

27. For me, it started when the Clintons started saying that Obama ...

... had said he'd changed positions on the Iraq war. And they've gotten loads uglier, since.

[stillcool]

6. Never would have thought..

that the Clinton's would self-destruct.

[Armstead]

7. Unfortunately....

they are also causing destruction within the Democratic Party in the process

[stillcool]

13. I'm not so sure...

I think this is just highlighting what was there all along. Like a pimple being popped.

[Armstead]

21. I agree with you there -- It's much deeper than personalities

But the Clintons are the most powerful manifestation of it.

[krkaufman]

29. Perhaps true.

But the Clinton approach *is* jeopardizing November. The dirty politics may cause many Dems to stay away from the polls in November, desiring an end to Clinton domination of Democratic politics.

[GalleryGod]

8. So can 23 year old State Rep. Sellers..

I'll choose him,anytime over the now, "Little Dawg".

[Armstead]

10. Um, what?

Who is Rep. Sellers?

Sorry I must have missed something.

[GalleryGod]

24. While awaiting the results:Google Bakari Sellers. There's a NEW Star in the Democratic Heavens!

He'll make you PROUD to be a Democrat.

[Marie26]

11. IMO he's a liability

I feel like he's undermining her campaign, & even sabatoging it.

[Orsino]

14. He's a rock star, and despite the MSM spin, he's helping his wife.

The disastrous reign of * makes him look better and better, in retrospect. Campaigning by the most popular president in decades is a net asset for her--a huge one. I think that your Evil Bill is a recent MSM invention, and a clumsy one not supported by any footage where he speaks to crowds.

Let's not fall for it, even if he could be working more of his good mojo.

[Armstead]

17. A relevant article

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/23/6590/


A Clinton Twofer’s High Price
by Rosa Brooks

...The problem for Hillary Clinton is that, as usual, she wants it both ways. She wants to be judged on her own merits and not be treated as Bill’s Mini-Me. But she also wants to reap the benefits of Bill’s popularity, and offers voters the reassuring suggestion that if there’s a crisis while she’s in the White House, there will be someone around who really does have executive branch experience — namely, Bill — to lend a hand.

But the Clintons are playing a dangerous game. The more they remind us of what we liked about Act I of the Bill and Hillary Show, the more they also remind us of what we hated.

It’s true that the Bush administration is enough to make anyone nostalgic for the Clinton era. Compared with the catastrophes that President Bush unleashed, Bill Clinton’s misdeeds seem like minor peccadilloes. Under Clinton, the United States didn’t fall into a potentially devastating economic crisis, didn’t rack up record-breaking debts and budget deficits, didn’t adopt a policy of torturing people, didn’t seek to gut international human rights standards, didn’t get bogged down in any major, pointless and unwinnable wars and didn’t actively alienate huge swathes of the global population.

On the other hand — and where the Clintons are concerned, it’s always wise to wonder what the hand you can’t see is up to — once you stop comparing the Clinton presidency with the Bush presidency, it no longer looks so great. On the whole, the Clinton era was a time of culture war and scandal, “triangulation” and botched reforms (healthcare anyone?), vacillation and paralysis......

...Obama offers something transformative and new, and this frightens some voters, who wonder if he can live up to his undeniable potential. The Clintons, meanwhile, offer something old and familiar. But will a trip down memory lane with Billary reassure voters or end up frightening them even more?

[Orsino]

18. Half is relevant, at best.

It seems to buy into the MSM spin, insisting that the Clinton duo is nebulously evil, and only halfway through does it begin to address the real shortcomings of the (Bill) Clinton presidency. It doesn't get far, and then the word "transformative" is invoked in favor of Obama without justification.

I think it amounts to praise for Obama merely for being the new, improved brand for 2008. It doesn't make a case for his being any danger to the all-but-assured nomination of Hillary Clinton.

[Armstead]

19. Maybe so

It's not a be-all end-all article.

But it does reflect the fact that selling Bill and Hillary as a two-fer is a mixed blessing, at best.

[Orsino]

22. Yeah. Very mixed.

They come with built-in baggage, and convenient carrying handles for the demonizers.

[krkaufman]

30. Well, I'm basing my opinion on the footage I've seen ...

... and what he's said, in comparison to what I know to be reality, and he *is* hurting his wife relative to my support for her. The Clinton campaign's behavior since their big scare in Iowa has dropped Hillary from equivalent, in my eyes, to Obama, to "hold my nose in November, if I have to" and bordering on "vote Republican, just to purge the Clintons from the party."

I've had enough of slimeball politics, and have even less taste for it when used by and on fellow Democrats.

[fujiyama]

31. People always thought Clinton was intelligent

and did his job competently.

But even then, Bill's personal ratings were never particularly high. His image as that of a "rock star" is among democrats, not the public at large. Many wouldn't mind his policies, but don't necessarily want to see him for another 4-8 years. Most people still of think of Clinton as a liar, even if it was about a personal affair. And I think at this point , his recent behavior makes him look especially foolish.

[Colobo]

15. Amen! American will reject them in the next contests.

[hollowdweller]

16. Bill Clinton HAS to be totally ignorant of the effect of the internet?

We've come a long way since 92 and 96 and a tremendous way since even 2004.

You used to be able to make statements like he's making distorting the facts or at least severely spinning them, then the media would repeat them for you and since you were an ex president or authority figure people would believe them.

But the rise of the Democratic Internet is even more powerful than the rise of Talk Radio on the right.

Clinton is thinking in 90's terms but this is the 21st century and anybody with a computer can go and actually look up the statements or facts he's distorting, or spinning and then make a decision for themselves. If the distortion is bad enough then a cry from the blogosphere goes up and even the mainstream media covers it.

The game has changed and he's not playing it very well

He'd do way more for Hillary by logging into the DU, or Kos and discussing Hillary

[mondo joe]

20. "My opponent could have played very nobly by not competing so hard."

[TeamJordan23]

23. Couldn't agree anymore. nm

[K Gardner]

25. Exactly, what you said !!! K&R

[krkaufman]

26. Agreed. Very well said.

Two roads diverged in that yellow wood; and the Clintons jumped into the ditch.

[dailykoff]

28. Maybe he doesn't really want to be Hilly's first boy.

I wouldn't.

[polichick]

32. Good that he reminded us of his ugly side now...

While we can still do something to change the trajectory of the election. :)

[Raine]

33. Totally agree nt