I woke up this morning deciding to switch from Hillary and Obama. And then....!

[kstewart33]

I saw a picture this morning where Hillary is extending her hand to Obama at the SOTU, and he turns his back to her. Geez what a jerk.

What is it with this guy? First, he belittles her in a debate with the 'you're likeable enough Hillary' and now this.

This is so dang confusing. This morning, I woke up and decided to switch from Hillary to Obama. Why? Because I watched non-stop Hillaryhate on the cable networks in the last few days (especially Tweety). I usually don't watch cable because of the bias and laziness of the so-call reporters and anchors. But over the last few days, I concluded that she can't win. Cable is already Hillary-hate land, and they're just getting started. Imagine what the fall will be like if she gets the nomination. Above all, I want a Dem in the White House, Obama or Hillary. And Obama's looking more electable.

So I changed my mind. And now this.

What the heck are we getting with this guy who can't even muster the graciousness to shake her hand? Obama is getting way too full of himself.

Some insight would be appreciated. I'm going to caucus Tuesday here in Denver and I'm now undecided.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

1. Obama is a brittle and snobbish figment of David Axelrod's imagination

[RichGirl]

85. I've seen Obama speak a number of times...

he is eloquent and warm and exciting. He'll make a great president in 2016.

[Faygo Kid]

2. Yeah, this is believable.

Support your candidate as you wish, but spare us the knee-deep BS about your "struggle."

[kstewart33]

26. See post #21.

[rinsd]

3. The snub is much ado about nothing.

[roguevalley]

57. I loathe primaries. I loathe this shit. What a pathetic thing this has

become. People are dying everywhere, people are sleeping in boxes, children are hungry, the world is dying from pollution and the big snit is about handshakes. This makes me hate everything tonight. Truly, we have all jumped the shark.

[rodeodance]

71. Dowd says Obama is scared of Hillary--that is why he would not greet her. What a HOOT

[Kahuna]

4. Yeah right.

:eyes:

[FrenchieCat]

22. Young Turks was talking about this poster, I think.....

Here.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x88814

[oasis]

88. Mr. "Hope & Unity" was too occupied to extend common courtesy to an opponent.

For those who haven't figured it out yet, "Snubgate" is about hypocrisy, arrogance and lack of diplomacy.

The opposite of the characteristics that Americans look for in a potential president.

[ruggerson]

5. You're an intelligent person

You shouldn't base your vote either on what crap Tweety and Fineman and Scarborough spew or a picture from the SOTU.

Go with your gut. Who do you think will do a better job as President.

[K Gardner]

6. You must not do any research on your own then. You rail at reporters for being "lazy" and biased,

and yet you look at one picture and make up your mind based on what.. comments and slime here? Do yourself a favor and look for the multiple, dozens of threads with ALL the pictures of the SOTU in them.. the ones that haven't been photoshopped to fit the latest Obama attack. Then see if you still have problems. Otherwise, I suspect your "switch" wasn't really a switch at all, just another way to bash Obama for something that didn't happen.

[lapfog_1]

7. You might need to get some glasses

and visit DU more often.

Hillary didn't offer her hand to Obama.

Ted Kennedy offered HIS hand to Hillary, and Hillary shook hands.

As this was happening, Obama turned his back to it and the reason given is that Claire McCaskill asked Obama a question. That's the statements of both Claire and OBama.

I think it's a dead issue at this point.

Anyway, sum up... no snub by either party.

[Auntie Bush]

50. Pardon, but he doesn't look like he's paying attention to Claire.

He looks like he's avoiding Hillary. Look at the picture again...he's even looking down...not at Claire. It's as plain as day!

[Qutzupalotl]

53. He's looking down to listen to Claire. nt

[lapfog_1]

63. You need to see ALL of the photographs of the event

there are now 6, including 4 time lapse.

And one which clearly shows him turning to Claire.

As for looking down... you do realize that Claire is a short person and Barack is rather tall, right?

Look at all 6 that have been posted and discussed ad nauseum here.

No snub, missed opportunity to be gracious and extend his hand... and had Hillary then turned away, that would be a snub.

Bottom line. She did NOT offer to shake hands with anyone. Ted (a class act) offered to shake HER hand, she accepted, the lady in the scarf (who is standing in between Hillary and Obama) leans back so Hillary can shake hands with Ted, Obama first turns his head toward Claire and then turns his body to face Claire (who is not in frame in all but 1 photo that I've seen).

Give it up. It's a dead issue.

Or shall we talk more (and there are photos of this too) about Obama OFFERING his hand to Hillary right after he announced for President, only to have Hillary coldly rebuff him on the Senate floor. Or do we all just have selective memories?

[lutefisk]

81. Well put! The Clinton people need to let this go...it's childish...n/t

[rodeodance]

73. Obama is scared of that strong woman in Red coming to greet him.

[TheDebbieDee]

8. I thought the "handshake incident" was ironic

considering that Sen. Obama calls himself the "Unity" candidate!

[Big Blue Marble]

23. More likely you would like it to be iconic.

Could your bias have anything to do with why you are choosing to see the incident
in the way that puts Obama in the bad light?

You do not know what happened. So do not draw conclusions that are so self-serving.

[TheDebbieDee]

45. Is it possible?

Could YOUR bias have anything to do with why you are choosing to see the incident in the way that puts Sen. Clinton in the bad light?

I'm just calling it the way I see it, same as you do.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. And tonight we have video of him attacking her in a speech. Obama is an empty suit

and Hillary will be able to get the job done.

Also, Hillary's campaign called Obama's because she wanted to sit with him during the State of The Union speech to show Democratic Party Unity and Obama said NO. Is that rude or is that rude? The man is NOT who he is portraying himself to be.

[TheDebbieDee]

13. It irks me that he uses the right-wing meme phrase of

"Hillary is divisive and polarizing."

He should make the repukes do their own work!

[Big Blue Marble]

28. Oh gosh they would have never thought of that themselves. n/t

[JackORoses]

30. it's not a joke, Hillary is divisive and polarizing. Even within her own Party.

Most of DU cannot stand her. What does that tell you?

[City Lights]

41. She excels at uniting Republicans though.

:hi:

[rodeodance]

78. well, we already know they are wimps. When the lady in RED has her go at them, they will run away

with their tails between their legs.

[TheDebbieDee]

47. It tells me that you have gotten their words stuck in your head!

And like Pavlov's dogs, you meme repeaters deliver the expected response; more re-iterations of Hillary is "polarizing and divisive". I would be surprised to find out that your eyeballs spin around in their sockets as you repeat the words.

Free your mind and think for yourself!

After *, the least we can do is NOT foist another "All hat, no cattle!" President on it.

[rodeodance]

77. it tells me that if a monkey jumped off a cliff, many would follow!!

Most of DU cannot stand her. What does that tell you?

[BlackVelvet04]

80. Most......

I don't think so. Obama is greatly disliked but quite a few as well.

[lutefisk]

83. She is almost Naderesque in her divisive effect here on DU!

The only other person I can think of that has had this kind of divisive, poisonous effect on DU is Ralph Nader.

This is just a simple observation from someone who has been here since the beginning, fwiw.

[TriMetFan]

84. And Obama is not????

[earthlover]

43. IT's not right wing...she IS divisive! Open your eyes....the dem party is divided

ANd part of that is because she and her unfaithful husband have been dividing the party on the basis of race for about a month now

I heard on NPR them talking about McCain and how he needs to unite the Republican Party behind him as the front runner.

What an interesting concept! Trying to get people to unite behind you!

Something Hillary has not even tried and probably is clue-less to the concept.

Her strategy is to salt the fields of oppenents

[rodeodance]

75. I noticed that yesterday--Obama using Rovian tactics

[aquart]

16. Not Hillary's campaign. Democratic leadership.

They didn't want the Democratic party to appear divided despite the heated campaign.

Hillary agreed. Obama did not.

Who's the uniter? Who's the divider?

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. Thanks. I thought I heard that it was her campaign that called him. Either way, he's rude.

Certainly not a Uniter.

[earthlover]

46. You heard wrong...probably hearing what you want to hear

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. You're pathetic. n/t

[earthlover]

42. Hillary did NOT invite Obama to sit with her. That has been refuted so many times

They were both invited by others to sit next to each other. Quit the lying, please. Or keep up with the news already.

[in_cog_ni_to]

49. And Obama said NO and Hillary said YES..so, may I suggest YOU stop twisting the damn story. The man

is not as nice as he wants people to believe he is. Unity and Hope is a facade. It's laughable.

[earthlover]

64. No..I am correcting your mis-statement of the story....you were inaccurate

Here's what you said above...."Also, Hillary's campaign called Obama's because she wanted to sit with him during the State of The Union speech to show Democratic Party Unity and Obama said NO"

In reality, Hillary's campaign did not call Obama....it was a third party.

You could have told the truth, but you chose to twist it a bit.

[FrenchieCat]

65. What did he say.....

He mentioned her Iraq war vote?

Can't talk policy that matters, like to the American people. A war costing trillions, but let's not mention it, hey?

Drawing distinctions might draw tears, again?

[DS1]

10. -1

[Bucky]

11. Nice try.

Disingenuious, but at least a fresh take on the "concern troll" routine.

Still, just a little too cutesy to actually pursuade anybody.

[kstewart33]

27. See post #21.

[bidenista]

12. whoopi goldberg reacts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlzD9l1N5kk

[movonne]

14. Are people here going to chit chat about who snubbed who or why

are playing the fool..We have a war going on, we have a stock market crashing, we have a criminal running the white house and so many more things that are important...

[aquart]

15. Tweety does your thinking?

I don't know what to say to you. I don't understand anyone who allows himself to be brainwashed by those hateful "pundits." I just left a post where an Edwards follower has let Ted Kennedy make his choice for him.

Forget electability. There are 72 million of us and only 55 million of them. There are 42 million registered independents. ALL WE NEED are 13 million independents and not one Republican vote. To win, the Republicans have to lure 30 million independents. THE DEMOCRAT WILL WIN IF WE COUNT THE VOTES.

Top that with the war freaked teenagers coming out for the Democrats. I thought they were all for Obama but Bill filled a hefty college hall for Hillary this week. Seems they don't all have one opinion.

The MSM and the Republicans would love us to believe that the Republicans are the majority party or, at the least, fifty-fifty. But we ain't. Not by a long shot.

The economy sucks and the war is bleeding us dry. EVERYBODY wants these bastards gone. The Republican leadership have given up the ghost. They are focusing on 2010, not 2008. They'll let us drown in their filth for two years and then try a return as the clean reform team.

[kstewart33]

21. Oh give me a break, guys.

I need to be educated? I'm up to speed on both candidates' positions, and I hate to tell all the Hillary-haters and the Obama-haters, but they don't differ so much.

Very little difference at all.

So now, where do you go? I go with two things - electability and character.

Right now, Obama's more electable, IMO. He's more likely to get the independent vote than Hillary. The Repubs want Hillary to get the nomination because they know that that is the only way to unite the Repub base. It doesn't take a solid IQ to see this.

Character? Sure, I look at the little things because it can tell alot about a person's character. So far with Hillary, Obama's looking arrogant and petty. Right now, I think Hillary scores better on character.

So where do you go?

And stop calling me a troll or a deceiver. Check my dang posts.

You guys have too much hate in you. Anyone who raises issues is immediately insulted. I've been here since 2001 and I haven't seen anything like this, even in 2004.

I'll pass on your advice. Sorry for the bother.

[Big Blue Marble]

35. Are you for real? Please consider this post that I posted on another thread.

Actually, many have spoken for Obama here for weeks.

We have talked of his record; we have talked of issues.
We have explained his qualifications. It is never enough.

No matter how we have described his candidacy, we are accused of coming up empty.

We are challenged and belittled so much that our ignore lists keep growing.
It has become hard to trust questions such as yours. As soon as we start to answer,
our answers are just minimized.

If you are serious about wanting more detail, please go to his site and read his positions.
http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

Take the time to read his two excellent books.

"Audacity of Hope"

http://www.amazon.com/Audacity-Hope-Thoughts-Reclaiming...

And "Dreams of My Father.
http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-My-Father-Story-Inheritanc...

These actions will give you far more information to make your decision than we can here.

Ksteward33, I would like to believe that you are sincerely looking to be answered.
His character is his strongest asset. Why would you let one action in a lifetime be the decision maker for
you. How does his character compare with Hillary's? If you are serious about this, I respect you for asking
questions. I hope your sincerity speaks to your character.

[MH1]

62. In case you're still reading

Do you remember the shit that Hillary pulled on John Kerry just before the 2006 election? Where she jumped on the right wing bandwagon to discredit him when it was very clear what he meant? (and if it wasn't she could have instead said "no comment")

Now, I think the so called "snub" over a handshake didn't even happen - there has been plenty of photographic evidence posted at DU showing that Obama had turned toward McCaskill before Clinton turned in his direction, and actually she was turning to Kennedy anyway - BUT...

BUT

"handshake-gate" is NOTHING, paltry, minuscule next to what Clinton pulled on John Kerry.

If that's the kind of thing that is going to be your determinant of "character", I would hope you would think about that. If you don't know what the hell I'm talking about, don't worry, someone can pull out the youtube for you.

[rodeodance]

74. LOL

[Big Blue Marble]

17. Do you really believe the spin.

I am so sad that you would allow others to interpret something so minor. Allow them
to blow this up to hurt Obama like the Dean Scream. The media and the DLC destroyed Dean
in front of our eyes with that garbage.

Please don't fall for it this time. Obama is a genuinely warm caring person. His senate colleagues
will vouch for that.

We have to be better than this, Keep our eyes on the prize of the restoration of our government and our country.
Step back and look at the big picture. Look at all his senate endorsements.

Look at his accomplishments from his election as the first black president of Harvard Law Review to his coalition building in the Illinois
Senate. Know that he was the most popular surrogate campaigner in 2006. Read his deeply moving story in "Dreams of My Father."

You can trust his decency. It is real. He is real not perfect, but real.

Hillary would love for you to allow one action one time that could be interpreted in several ways as the way to choose your candidate.
I hope you will consider the whole narrative instead.

[bellasgrams]

33. Sorry but after hearing him vilify Hillary unnecessarily I think he is

more brash, and rude than any dem I've seen run for pres.

[Big Blue Marble]

37. When did he vilify Hillary?

And how long have you been supporting Hillary?

[emilyg]

18. He's full of his own importance.

[JackORoses]

34. why do you reflect the qualities of your candidate on everyone else?

We all know who little miss selfish is.

Trying to smear him with the filth that she wallows in is just plain wrong.

[Big Blue Marble]

39. Would you give us solid concrete evidence to back up your accusation? n/t

[rodeodance]

76. I read 2 of his books --most about ME ME ME ME

[sandnsea]

19. Hillary lied about being snubbed

So now what are you going to do.

And I sincerely hope you are not voting based on whether someone shook someone else's hand.

[bellasgrams]

38. I don't think anyone would base their vote on one incident, but

BO's incidents are adding up.

[ProSense]

20. Wait,

these pictures?

[FrenchieCat]

24. Commentary to accompany such

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x88814

[ErnestoG]

25. Uhm, he did no such thing. How long are these dumb threads going to go on with this?

Sheeesh you Hillarites...is that all you got?

[kstewart33]

29. See post #21.

[global1]

32. I Can Now See How We Got George W. Bush For 8 Years.....

We let the MSM manipulate us.

And the people that voted for this idiot put their heads in the sand, got stubborn and wouldn't listen to reason, or even learn for themselves what this administration was doing to them/us.

So it is easy to see how swiftboating can work. It is easy to see how media manipulation can work. It is easy to see how campaign surrogates can work. It is easy to see how the 'Dean Scream' worked.

It is just easy to see - but people dig in and either refuse to look or listen or to find out for themselves. This 'handshake scam' is just another example.

I'm considering changing my DU Board name to "Hopeless in Chicago" - because I'm soooo close to losing all hope in the American people.

[Windy]

36. You and me both. I guess I'm learning that in some segments it human nature to be a lemming! n/t

[kstewart33]

44. You're giving up? I'm giving up with posts like yours.

You're not addressing the issue. You're just insulting me immediately without answering the question.

Read post #21. That's my position. And stop the hate, will you?

[Occam Bandage]

40. So you vote on bullshit? Wow.

[pdxmom]

51. So how do you feel about the issues? N/T

[izzybeans]

52. ah right.

sure.
All you need to know was out of frame of those pictures, can you imagine that there is a world beyond the limits of a camera lens?

[alcibiades_mystery]

54. Aaaaachoooobullshit

Gezundheit.

[troubleinwinter]

60. I present you with the 'Best Post of The Week' award, with our deepest gratitude and respect.

Bless you.

[amborin]

55. remember obama's vivious remark to hillary at that debate?

"you're likeable enough,Hillary"

petty, catty, vicious, mean-spirited

[troubleinwinter]

56. You're going to caucus. Yippee. Did you ever consider THE FUCKING ISSUES? Or just handshakes?

[kstewart33]

66. Well, I was going to check out the color of their clothes that day.

My favorite color is blue. Whoever wears blue (if it's a bright, inspiring blue) gets my vote for sure!

How about you? Oh I know, boxers or briefs!

[CreekDog]

58. At least he didn't send Michelle out to state that Hillary was the white candidate

I don't decide votes based on handshakes.

A bigger deal to me is that Bill Clinton called Obama's position against the Iraq War a "fairy tale" while Hillary voted for it and supported it and Bill Clinton himself didn't really oppose it. Incredible hypocrisy.

[Sanctified]

59. I woke up this morning thinking I would switch from Obama to Hillary. And then...!

I saw the bullshit Hillary and her supporters were pulling over a none existent snub and knew she and they would lie about anything to reach the White House.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

61. And you posted this evening in a non-truthful mood n/t

.

[C_U_L8R]

67. Because of this, I am voting against Hillary

for the very reason that they manufacture this bullshit...
and her supporters who perpetuate this crap should be ashamed of themselves.
I've never seen such hamfisted attempts at crass manipulation.
Sorry Clintonites, it's not working. In fact it's working against you.
Phooey.

[rodeodance]

72. Oh for heaven's sake, I do not think Hill would want your vote anyway, given that

it seems to be wimpy.

Obama should have stood up like a man and had the graciousness to greet her even if he afraid of her.

[C_U_L8R]

89. please stop making this stuff up

were you there? How can you infer from that one photo what the heck is going on?
How do you know they didn't say hi two seconds before?
How do you know its not Hillary who's doing the snubbing.
I'm sorry but you don't and you're making stuff up.
I'm afraid you've proved my point and this is all just silliness.

[rodeodance]

68. YES SHE CAN needs to be your motto. Really, hasn't she shown you how stong she is??

[rodeodance]

69. YES SHE CAN, YES SHE CAN, YES WE CAN, YES WE CAN...

[rodeodance]

70. ~~ALL FIRED-UP FOR LADY~~~~

[rodeodance]

79. When the lady in RED approached Obama, he got scared and the Repugs will

run and hide also.

[Steely_Dan]

82. This is what happens when you are left with...

two people who would sell their soul to be the President...would sacrifice anything including this country to sit in the Oval Office. America gets what it deserves.

-P

[Armstead]

86. I'd say get your priorities straight

A handshake and a chance remark are going to determine how you believe the future of the country should go?

McCain is often said to be a number-one asshole in person. Bill Clinton is often said to be an asshole in person. Hillary is often said to be an asshole in person. Edwards ditto. Most other figures have their asshole side.

George W. Bush is often said to be a real charmer in person. Trent Lott is an amusing folksy guy....

The point is how do you feel about either candidate's actual positions and message? And do you believe they can get the job done?

Hillary or Obama, take your pick. But I hope your choice is based more on little snippets that may not be accurate about their personality.

[Skwmom]

87. More staged, phony, gender crap. It really speaks volumes about

how they think women can be so easily manipulated.