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Prefer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:27 PM
Original message
Who supports more H1B visas?
Hillary or Obama?

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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary is the founding member of the Senates India Caucus .. formed same time 100Ks American
engineers and scientist got an "opportunity" to look at other career paths. Fuck Billary.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. be sure to watch these videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hillary. She is getting a Communications center at a India tech university
named for her since she and Bill have spent a large amount of time there. Previous thread has some excellent articles detailing the millions the Clintons have taken from India's tech business leaders who have a strong interest in her campaign now and in more H1B visas.

This is why I am so opposed to Hillary, family's and workers in Silicon Valley have been seriously hurt by her push for this. She and Bill made numerous trips to India on business associated with jobs outsourced there from this area. All the while taking more and more money, as American workers here got laid off with no jobs in that pay scale. Executives took huge compensaion packages and support Hillary, they say its for innovation but it is really to expand H1B visas and more outsourcing. My husband works for a major semi company here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4034100
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I am opposed to her for the same reason...many family members and friends hurt by h1-b replacements
and outsourcing.'

I cannot believe people will support her.
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Prefer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Our SAP project team is being outsourced to Tata
And the people they have delivered so far are really bad, basically incapable.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. same experience here. Clinton did a deal with Tata in Buffalo that
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 11:31 PM by caligirl
was suppose to create 200 jobs there. it didn't. It netted 10 and they were not American citizens. I posted some story links in this thread. The Tata story is in one of those. Our company sent its help desk to India, the leadership refuses to recognize the poor service, they sound like a bunch of Bushies only touting the lines they want to believe despite the complaints of poor quality. Its all about driving every last red cent down, exec pay increases, we loose jobs and they wave their egotistical scripted talking points of money cut, ignoring shoddy service at every turn.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. how often have you seen anyone holding her feet to the fire on this
in any of the debates? I haven't.
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Prefer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. My baby went to an Indian doctor recently
she didn't write the right prescription and wouldn't call the pharmacy to correct it for 20 hours - the whole time with people calling her office. Then she lied about it and said that they called the pharmacy back the previous night. The pharmacist was livid that the doctor had lied.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I work with a lot of people from India
they are all highly qualified and competent.

I am generally against expanding H1B visas but it is not because I have any problem with the people from India.

They are good people and deserve respect.

I find some of the comments in this thread disturbing. If that is truly your experience, then I am surprised, but in any case I hope you will resist the urge to stereotype.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I don't have any problem with people from India either, but there are qualified US citizens who
are losing their jobs and not getting hired.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I agree that qualified US citizens should be able to get those jobs
but this thread seemed to be developing a theme that "Indian workers are incompetent" and that is so far from my experience that I almost called it racist. But then, it may be the posters honestly did have a vastly different experience. I'm just finding it a little hard to buy.

Anyway I agree that the system should first support US workers. But if someone levels unfair attacks at another group of people, I think we need to speak up. After all they are just using the system as it is, to take care of themselves and their families.
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Prefer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Half Indian where I work - in IT
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 11:16 PM by Prefer
most are competent (and aside from that - all are wonderful people!). The two Tata guys I have seen mess things up.

Now a few years ago, I saw how some were essentially running a scam. I had to vet 10 resumes for an IT shop. My friend at the site who was Indian looked at them and said "this is fake. this is fake. this one is fake." He pointed out to me the same paragraph cut and pasted between the resumes. He also told showed me his resume with someone else's name on it He put people out with his resume and then if they can't do the work, they would email it to him. He takes a portion of their hourly rate. The job site was unaware that he was doing other work while on the project. Then I go to another project and found out some of the people speak Telegu. So I tell my friend about it, because he speaks Telegu, and he says I know one of the girls there, she screwed me over - meaning she took the skills she taught by him and went off and ditched him, basically didn't pay him back by earning for him for a while. She denied that she knew him, but he named her by name. She was afraid of me after I asked her about him. Really it was just "hey we have a friend in common", but she seemed intimidated by it.

I am sorry if you think this makes me a bad person for saying this, but it is what really happened. The doctor too.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Some Are Competent, Some Are Not
The same is true for Americans, or any other nationality I have dealt with.

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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. If you have the choice, DO NOT GO BACK To THAT DOCTOR. Here is the rationale:
It has nothing to do with her heritage. It is incredibly unsafe to deal with doctors who do this. The doctor delayed treatment to your infant by acting in this way, her staff should have assisted you in making the correction merely by asking for the corrected drug script, then calling it in the same day or sooner depending on the type of med.( I did this for patients daily, and it only takes a few minutes in between patient visits. This delay is too long, particularly worrisome is that it is an infant where the problems can multiply much faster with worse outcomes. You have no guarantee it won't happen with something more critical. As an RN if it were me I'd report her to the state board. Again don't accept this from any doctor. As your babies only advocate you have to speak out and demand better. My kids are older but one has type 1 diabetes, the most dangerous form requiring insulin to survive) and though being his advocate has been tiring and draining beyond anything I thought i would have to be as a parent, I know I did the right things for him to go to school safely, and get his insulin and medical care safely.
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Prefer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Oh we will not...
Edited on Wed Jan-30-08 11:56 PM by Prefer
We saw them at about 5 in the evening. Went to pick up the script afterwards and was denied. They forgot to put that it was a baby sized dose of DM, so the pharmacy couldn't fill it. The pharmacy was calling from that point and left a message. We started calling again at 9 the next morning and were told the doctor will get to it; then it was when she gets back from lunch. Didn't get it until after 2 the next day. We talked to a number of people at the office and were told different things. Finally they just said that they had called the pharmacy back the night before. I told the pharmacist this when I picked up the medicine and she said, point blank, "They lied". There were a number of irresponsible uncommunicative people there. We used to see a doctor at that practice who we liked, but she left and now we see why. It's the way it is being run. These people seem quite incapable.



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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Thanks for responding so quickly. Infants have to get timely treatment, glad to see
your moving on to someone else.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. Like any group
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 12:13 AM by fujiyama
some you'll find are competent and capable...others not so much...

The main thing a company misses out on when hiring H1-B workers over native workers, is that often times you are hiring those with less hands on working experience...people with academic qualifications and degrees, but without practical skills developed only after working in an industry for some time.

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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. The numbers are growing, and no I don't. They do have to go through
a licensing process and if their education doesn't satisfy the state medical board they don't get licensed. I also know there are many who do practice not just safely, but are extremely good. I worked with a few I would recommend to family and friends. The one time I had an issue was not about a doctor. It concerned a medical assistant who lacked english language skills sufficiently to cause unsafe situations.(her notes were incomprehensible) I recommended against hiring her and they did not hire her.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I always assumed that anyone wanting to practice medicine here
had to go through the same board exams as anyone that studied here in the US, right? I'm guessing the testing procedure should weed out those not able to practice.

I agree that communication in the field of medicine is especially vital and if a person cannot write coherent and comprehensible notes, he or she is obviously unfit to practice. It sounds like an English exam should also be given in that case testing communication skills (writing and verbal).




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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I am certain they do. But also this has to do with the numbers
of medical students vs the number needed, similar to nursing schools not graduating sufficient numbers of graduate nurses. There may be many who want to go to med school, fewer qualifing to get in to fewer slots available. Higher demand not being met here at home.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. I do. And I won't defend that position here; it's just a point where I agree with HRC more than BO.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. let me guess... you won't defend it here because...
there really is no defense for shitting on American workers.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I won't defend it here because few here know shit about economics or job creation,
and instead post simple-minded vitriol like that.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-30-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. So it creates more jobs? service jobs that are lower paying, econ is an art
Its more difficult to see so many Americans out of work while business prefers to get employees from a lower paying sector(H1B visas). All of us know out of work software engineers in the Silicon Valley while these companies hire from other countries at lower cheaper wages. How is that good for us?

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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. I think it's pretty clear
Edited on Thu Jan-31-08 12:27 AM by fujiyama
that many corporations are abusing the system as it is now. Hell, the company I work with right now failed to file the H1 visa for several co-workers of mine, ending up in them spending more money on classes to stay here legally. I also know that they have better academic qualifications than myself (they have masters degrees) but make less than me.

However, the H1 system should not be completely abolished. There are many skilled workers that are productive and bring special skills. Perhaps the preference should be given for those that studied here. After all, if this country educated these people (at least at the university level), the US should reap some benefits. I am however disturbed by the games the companies play, issuing what in some cases amounts to psychological blackmail and indentured servitude.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. If there were a true shortage of workers with special skills why aren't they
getting paid more than American workers as opposed to less than?
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. In other words, I was right. Thank you. n/t
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. And thank you again for the opportunity to tell everyone to WATCH THESE VIDEOS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)
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agdlp Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
27. POLITICS: Obama digs in, plays the outsourcing card
http://www.sajaforum.org/2007/06/politics_obama_.html

Senator Barack Obama's campaign seems to be picking up where John Kerry left off in 2004, in regards to outsourcing. The Obama campaign is suggesting that Senator Hillary Clinton's investment portfolio reflects a pro-outsourcing, pro-India stance. From The New York Sun's Latest Politics blog:

Mr. Obama's campaign is circulating a document critical of President and Senator Clinton's links to India in an effort to portray Mrs. Clinton as having a poor record on outsourcing and protecting American jobs. The three-page piece of opposition research, titled "Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)'s Personal Financial and Political Ties," was obtained from a source unaffiliated with the Obama campaign.
<snip>
The "Punjab" reference is an apparent riff on a joke that Mrs. Clinton herself made last year at a fund-raiser hosted by a top Indian-American supporter. "I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab and win easily," she is quoted as saying.

The full text of the Obama document is available on the Sun's site, and it heavily cites Indian publications such as the Economic Times, Mangalorean.com and Tribune India, as well as India Abroad and the Press Trust of India (see the original document on the NYT site). The reason the Obama campaign has dug up the assets issue now is because the Clintons have been forced to cash in (and list) their millions of dollars of investments, and these include holdings in Easy Bill, Ltd - "an India-based company that works on electronic transactions and business services for Indians" - as well as Bill Clinton's $300,000 in speaking fees from Cisco. According to the Obama campaign, Cisco has been shifting American jobs to India:

Hillary Clinton Accepted Almost $60,000 In Contributions From Employees Of Cisco Systems, Which Laid Off American Workers to Hire Indian "Techies." Clinton's Presidential Exploratory Committee took $39,450 from Cisco employees during the first quarter of 2007. Cisco employees have also donated $18,900 to Clinton's Senate committee between 1999 and 2006. Forbes reported, in a feature called "A Tale of Two Cities" that Cisco was laying off $60,000-a-year "techies," while hiring new employees in Bangalore, India. "Cisco used only a few Infosys workers in Bangalore six years ago ; almost 300 contract staff, plus 550 full-fledged employees in its own Bangalore office."

Adam Nagourney of The New York Times blogs on the matter. He says the Times received the document from the Clinton campaign as well, apparent evidence that they think the Obama campaign will come off looking bad:

Why would the Clinton campaign want to circulate documents attacking its candidate? Mrs. Clinton’s aides declined comment. But the Clintons have been seeking to undercut the effort by Mr. Obama to present himself as the face of a new-kind-of-politics that eschews these kind of attacks. These documents – with their bold type and grabby headlines, including one that referred to Mrs. Clinton as (D-Punjab) – are text-book examples of old-school opposition research practices. Second, the documents include what could be construed as attacks on Mr. Clinton, who is probably the most popular person among Democrats these days.

For South Asians, the Obama campaign may also appear a bit xenophobic, just as Kerry did leading up to the 2004 campaign, until Congressional Democrats told him to cool down the anti-outsourcing rhetoric. At the DNC Convention in Boston, Congressman Joe Crowley told me the sentiment had been conveyed by members of the Indian community that they didn't like the vibe, and he in turn passed that on to Kerry. That is likely to be an even greater risk in this campaign season, given the increased clout of the community.

< UPDATE: Easy Bill is a company run by the Munjal family (http://www.easybillindia.com/profile_directors.asp) of Hero Bicycles fame (now a multiline business). More on EasyBill India: http://www.easybillindia.com/ >


The NYT is also covering this in a story about the Clintons' current wealth entitled "To Avoid Conflicts, Clintons Liquidate Holdings" by Patrick Healy.

Mr. Clinton also has $15,001 to $50,000 in Easy Bill Ltd., an India-based company that works on electronic transactions and business services for Indians.

Shortly after the Clinton campaign released the financial information, the campaign of Senator Barack Obama, the Illinois Democrat, circulated to news organizations — on what it demanded be a not-for-attribution-basis — a scathing analysis. It called Mrs. Clinton “Hillary Clinton (D-Punjab)” in its headline. The document referred to the investment
in India and Mrs. Clinton’s fund-raising efforts among Indian-Americans. The analysis also highlighted the acceptance by Mr. Clinton of $300,000 in speech fees from Cisco, a company the Obama campaign said has moved American jobs to India.
<snip>
Asked about the document, Bill Burton, a spokesman for Mr. Obama, said: “We did give reporters a series of comments she made on the record and other things that are publicly available to anyone who has access to the Internet. I don’t see why anyone would take umbrage with that.”

Asked why the Obama campaign had initially insisted that it not be connected to the document, Mr. Burton replied, “I’m going to leave my comment at that.”

See USINPAC's open letter to Senator Obama below, in the comments section. Excerpt:

“As representatives of the Indian American community, we have been encouraged by your message of inclusion and your promise to bring a new kind of politics to our country. This is why we are so concerned about media reports indicating your staff may be engaging in the worst kind of anti Indian American stereotyping.”
<snip> “We request that you respond directly to these media reports and let us know if indeed your staff is promoting these hurtful stereotypes. We trust that you will take all appropriate action on this matter and look forward to your response on this issue of great concern to the Indian American community.”

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-31-08 02:57 AM
Response to Original message
29. Hey, everyone -- be sure to WATCH THESE VIDEOS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)
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