Ok= McCain Vs Loser

[HornBuckler]

Nice. I hate to say it but we've lost another election. Can somebody explain why Edwards dropped out tonight? That seals it, Repubs Win '08. Who's up for Canada?

[Prefer]

1. No Shit

Do you think there will be an "aha" moment where we realize what happened, or are we just going to accept the "America wasn't ready for a _____ president" pronouncement as prolog.

[HornBuckler]

2. I don't know

But I know we showed our collective dumb ass faces once again.

[neutron]

4. Because nobody voted for him

[FrenchieCat]

3. What I can tell you is.....McCain vs. Winner/Obama

You can let me know what John Edwards' position would have been if you want.

On McCain's forte; National Security, i.e., Iraq War, etc.

McCain’s position:
I’m am a big time War Hero. We were right to go into Iraq. Saddam gone is good. I know what to do to win this war. I wanted to send more troops at the beginning, and I urged for the surge when most were against it. I stood on my principles, and I was right. I want to leave Iraq, but we can leave victorious. It’s important to stay, because if not, there will be genocide, and Al Qaeda will be left to rule Iraq, and turn it into a terrorist state.

Clinton’s position:
Cannot argue about how we got into this war because her vote was the same as McCain's. She has also stated enough times that she wanted Saddam gone and that him being gone was good. She would be forced to move on to how the war was fought. She had a lot of problems with Rumsfeld and how the war was conducted, but she will only be in agreement with McCain, because he thinks that the war wasn’t fought correctly either. Hillary was against the surge, and if the surge is still being portrayed as having been successful, Hillary loses points, which weakens the rest of her argument to get us out of Iraq. McCain will look "resolute" next to her when judged by Repugs, Indies, moderates, and yes the Democrats who are also concerned about National Security.

McCain wins the Iraq War debate, even though most people want out...
He therefore gains the upper hand on National Security matters by defacto of having worn the uniform.

Obama’s Position:
Obama and forcefully argue that the War should never have been fought or authorized. He can point out that as much experience McCain is supposed to have with war, he voted for the debacle that will have ended up costing trillions and killed hundreds of thousands, while the congress was acting tone deaf as the public marched against such move.

Obama then can describe how the war was based on lies, and there were no WMD. That he, Obama, called it for what it was; a Dumb war, and those who supported it who should have known better. He would be speaking from a position of strength having stood against the conventional tide. He can claim the ultimate title of Maverick (McCain's strength), and point out that McCain is the one who supported the President's decision for an elective war, breaking the mold many years of Foreign policy wisdom.

Obama can stressed that well documented fact that there were no links between 9/11 and Iraq, but that McCain acted as though there were. He can then slides in the fact that our economy is now into a recession because we are being held hostage by the Chinese and other countries we have to borrow money from because of our forced expenditures in Iraq. And so, apart from everything else, Obama’s Iraq War opposition provides backbone to go into the economic platform that progressives demand, based on the reason that it is Republican stewardship that has gotten us where we are.

McCain will divert the economic issue by talking about Governmental pork....but Obama can point out that the war is the biggest porker, and roll out some stats. Obama can show without being forced to debate "what to do about Iraq now" on McCain's terms, and he can stress that he had superior judgment on one of the most important national security decision in our current times. He also can brings up McCain's statement of the possibility of our being in Iraq for 100 years.

That's when Obama can move, with an upper hand, on how to get out of Iraq. His argument will carry more credibility than McCain’s by this time...and Obama then proposes how we get out of Iraq.

Obama wins the Iraq War debate, and neutralizes McCain on McCain's strength.

Next time, I will send you my thoughts on other advantages Obama has over Hillary Clinton as the Democratic Nominee. I'm sure you know some of them.

[neutron]

6. You mean McCain vs winner/Hillary

FLA is the middle of the road indicator.
Obama even lost the youth vote there.

[cjmastaw]

12. Hillary won on name recognition.

And, had people not voted so early... 56% of them, it would have been VERY close... within 4%

[Lucinda]

18. Obama ran ads, and believe it or not, people have tvs there.

They know who the candidates are.
Most of the voters in this country will make their choice without EVER speaking to the candidates or seeing them in person.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Right!

They all had their TV turned to CNN (the only channel he ran ads on for a minute)? :eyes:

Like that competes with Clinton's name on the ballot for 2 primaries and 2 presidential elections and being in the white house for 8 years. Sure. :eyes:

[WinkyDink]

24. You say that as if "name recognition" is something minor, as opposed to just about everything.

If BY NOW "name recognition" is a deciding factor, then many voters are simply NOT going to be delving further.

[HornBuckler]

26. Eh?

Think about it.

[MonkeyFunk]

33. Edwards and Obama were unknown in Florida?

You voters looked at the ballot and thought to themselves "Bara-WHA?!", "Who the hell is John Edwards?"

I noticed a lot of people who oppose Clinton keep claiming name recognition as the reason for her win, but I find it ridiculous.

[HornBuckler]

8. Hope you are right

But I feel I just may be. McCain will beat Obama or Clinton. Just the way I believe it will go. I hope you're right but more so, I hope the Democrats left aren't just smoke and mirrors (I'm afraid they are just that).

[FrenchieCat]

14. I don't think that it is a Republican plot that our turnouts are so high.

Do you? :shrug:

I mean, really, really high.

[HornBuckler]

22. No

I Agree with that - but I'm afraid that McCain will clean the clocks of dems... No Gore - No Kucinich No Edwards = WE LOSE.

[FrenchieCat]

30. So you think all of the people that came out and voted for Dems...and outnumbered the Repugs.....

are gonna turn around and vote 100 years into Iraq McCain?

How does that work exactly? :shrug:

[MonkeyFunk]

35. So McCain would beat Clinton

but Kucinich would beat McCain?

[Prefer]

15. today's polls show it too

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/john_mccain_match_ups/election_2008_mccain_vs_clinton_and_obama

[Yuugal]

29. Ouch

"McCain now leads Clinton 48% to 40%. He leads Barack Obama 47% to 41%."

[water]

5. He was the only candidate running as a leftist, while all Republicans are running as rightists.

I suppose the he and the party felt that strategy couldn't win.

I just think it's silly that he dropped out before ST and after vowing to stay in.

[neutron]

9. He was talking left, but his history is right

[Steely_Dan]

7. I'm with you, my friend...

The Dems have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

-P

[HornBuckler]

10. Bingo

Well Said... Well Said...

[gateley]

11. I don't know why Edwards dropped out, but

after hearing McCain on tonight's debate, I thought he might not be that big a threat. There are TOO MANY people who aren't willing to let the Iraq war drag on, and that's what he's proposing -- or at least a presence for an unspecified length of time.

Yes, the major concern has shifted to the economy as people are faced with losing their homes and not being able to pay for heat, but Iraq is still a big #2 on the list of issues.

I hope I'm right.

[HornBuckler]

13. Honestly

I don't see a difference. That may sound crass, but honestly Obama/Clinton/McCain Whats the damn difference?

[FrenchieCat]

21. Well first, let see....

What this political observer says about it....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4305263

and Obama back as far as 1995.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4307302&mesg_id=4307302

Howard Dean with by Barack Obama in 2003 -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x89185

[gateley]

28. Iraq -

That's the BIG difference to me. Not to mention Supreme Court nominees.

I understand your anger and frustration - I honestly do. But even though neither of these two are our preference, we can't throw out the baby with the bathwater (as the saying goes).

Just gotta do what we can.

[Yukari Yakumo]

32. Nader? Is that you? {nt}

uguu

[cjmastaw]

16. And it's number two for two reasons

1. they are trying to divert our attention with the recession and housing crisis

2. people asssume that the next president will end it.

[HornBuckler]

17. I will give you point 2

The next president will end it.... "it" may very well be our existence.

[SecularNATION]

19. You are probably right.

Over the last 10 elections, the Democrats have won 3. And, once again they're going to select a candidate that will lose the general. If McCain is the nominee, Clinton almost certainly will. McCain would probably defeat Obama, too. Edwards was our best shot. The sad fact is, the average Dem voter is stupid and has been for many years.

[HornBuckler]

20. Agreed

So what of those of us (DU Alumni) What of us? Should we just leave? I am SO disappointed in this fucking country and the people that occupy it - yet there are still clever folk on DU.


But What to do - What To Do!?

[HornBuckler]

23. OK

I Guess I Need To Make It Clear My Position = McCain Will Beat Obama And/Or Clinton. Period. as in .

[balantz]

25. I figure if it doesn't happen, they will just make it happen.

None of their tricks have been taken from their bag.

[HornBuckler]

27. Nothing will change

If we get fucked - we will most likely lay down and be complacent. Well, Fuck that.

[Yukari Yakumo]

34. All I got to say is this...

Skinner, tombstone his ass.

If you don't like who the nom is, then get the 'F out of DU.

[provis99]

36. I don't see anything that said he didn't like the Dem choices

He was just realistic in pointing out that whether or Obama or Clinton wins the nom, they will lose in the general election.