With all due respect, for those refusing to vote in the GE, why are you on DU?

[RiverStone]

Don't participate - it's your vote to use or lose.

I recognize your deep frustration and sadness at missing an opportunity to vote for Gore, Kucinich, Biden, Dodd, Richardson, or Edwards in the GE.

Though beyond the usual spirited banter between the remaining candidates, I can't see any value in lamenting with doom and gloom your intent to not vote in the fall.

May I assume that out of respect for those of us still in the fight for the long haul -
that given a choice, you would still rather see a Dem win the GE (even if it is a Dem you won't support) than a rethug?

If that's true, then why post anything which would give a puke troll something to smile about?
There really is something to the power of positive thinking. Does your post help Dems win in the fall? Or at the very least, does it help a particular Dem win? Any Dem?! If not, then why not quietly take a break - and let those of us still here focus on the real battle with the rightie wacko's?

Again, I respect your right to be damn angry, pissed off, and feel marginalized by corporate-media bullshit way beyond our power to fix on DU.

We need every single ounce of good will, hope, optimism, and collective strategy to beat McCain/Mitt in November. We need you too, but if for whatever reason you can't or won't join in the fight anymore... fare the well.

I'll save you an invitation to the Democratic victory party starting sometime around midnight, November 4, 2008! :kick: :party:


peace~:)

[SeattleGirl]

1. Edwards supporter here.

I have not yet made up my mind who to vote for in my primary, but I will vote. I've been voting since I was 18 (I'm 52 now), and am passionate about people getting out and voting.

I do hope that by the time the GE rolls around, people who say now that they won't vote in it will feel differently. However, right now, I can't sit in judgement on them. Ever person you named in your OP is a good person, and being in the latest group of people whose candidate has dropped out, I understand the feeling of loss, confusion, and wondering who I will now vote for.

[RiverStone]

2. No pressure to decide....

Or declare anything SeattleGirl.

Not being sure who you will vote for makes sense - given the recent loss of JE. I'm no vulture trying to grab your vote.

I am encouraged that you are still here and passionate about people voting. That in and of itself, offers small consolation to the folks feeling very marginalized by the corporate-media's lack of attention to a great man in John.

Hope you hang around till ya figure things out. :hi:

[SeattleGirl]

3. Oh, I'm not going anywhere.

Though it gets pretty crazy around here, I still love DU, and I love encouraging people to get out and vote. In 2004, I worked a Kerry booth at a local neighborhood festival, registering people to vote. It was so much fun.

[madmom]

33. I was having the same problem, but then decided that I will vote for whom ever Edwards supports,..I

trusted and believed in him on other things why not that?

[RiverStone]

39. We are all looking forward to hearing from him on that....

I do wonder madmom, why do you think Edwards wants to wait till after February 5th to endorse BO or HC?

Thom Hartmann was saying today that the sooner the Dems can focus on a singular candidate as the nominee, the sooner we can pool our resources to fight the pukes - and ONLY the pukes.

John does not want the race to be divisive, he said as much in his wonderful and sad farewell address - then why not make an endorsement ASAP and let the chips fall where they may?

I'd love it if endorsed Obama - but I see no advantage to waiting. Look how quick slimeball Rudy jumped on stage with McCain - like the next day!?

Better yet, John is offered the AG spot in an Obama administration!

[madmom]

40. I don't know,maybe he's trying to see if one of them will take up his causes along with their own.

[bigwillq]

4. People are free to do as they choose

when they get in the voting booth.

I am still voting for DK in my primary in CT on Feb. 5. Many people say it's a throw away vote but I still believe he is the best candidate that will be on that ballot.

But in the end, A Democrat will still win that race.

However, in the GE, protests votes have never worked in our favor.

Obama and Clinton are not my first choice but I will vote for them in the GE.

[RiverStone]

5. And your choice makes lots of sense...

IMO anyway.

In the primaries, to be able to register support for DK is your only chance left to "officially" acknowledge your preference.

Very glad your still with us beyond that, albeit with some reservations, and are voting Dem in the GE.

We need your vote!
:hi:

[Big Blue Marble]

6. Because we have democratic values with a small d.

We believe that the Democratic Party with notable exceptions, supports these values far better than the other party.
I personally support many Democratic candidates with my time and money and will continue do so. And I will stay on DU.

I would have proudly voted for Biden, Dowd, Kucinich, or Edwards, They are all great Americans. I will not support or
vote for HRC. I think she endangers this Party that I love. I think she endangers this country's ability to get going again.
I think she cast an immoral vote when she voted for the Iraq war.

So do a lot of other Democrats. Some will choose to vote for her out of party loyalty or fear of Republicans. I will not. Many others will join me.
She will leave this a fractured country. I do not want to be part of that divisiveness for the next four years.

[Mz Pip]

8. SCOTUS SCOTUS SCOTUS

Whatever your feeling about Clinton she will not be appointing a Scaliathomasalito clone to the SCOTUS. And that counts a lot IMHO.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Bake]

11. Then you will be part of four more years of rape and pillage

not only of Iraq, but of THIS country. You will have the blood of a million more Iraqis, several thousand more US GIs, and countless Americans who will die without decent health care --- on your hands. And that won't wash off with all the "small d democratic" values in the world.

Thanks for ... nothing.

Bake

[Big Blue Marble]

12. It is actually Mrs. Clinton, not me, that has the blood of Iraqis on her hands.

She authorized the war. I marched against it. And how sure are you that she will not attack Iran?
She voted for Kyle/Liberman.

[Bake]

13. You're talking about the past, first of all

If it's President McCain who attacks Iran, and your failure to vote helped put him in office, the blood is on your hands. By the same token, it's pretty clear that President McCain would continue the surge until Hell itself freezes over, since he'll never quit without "winning," and it's impossible to win. That's the blood I'm talking about. But don't worry, you can do like Pontius Pilate did, and just obsessively wash your hands ... but like Pilate, it won't help.

And no, I don't believe for an instant that Hillary would attack Iran.

Bake

[totodeinhere]

14. She voted to enable to Bush/Cheney warmongering Iran policy.

She was the only major Dem candidate to vote that way. That's enough for me.

[Big Blue Marble]

19. The past is prologue.

Her vote to authorize the Iraq War was as everything she does politically motivated.

It was as much an amoral vote in intent as it was immoral in result.

Her concern at the time she voted, was more for her political future than the people of Iraq or the people of the United States.

When a candidate chooses political expediency over core values that is a major reflection on her character.

Her character would color everything that she would do as president. Past actions are the best predictor of future behaviors.

If you really think she would govern much differently than McCain on foreign policy and international issues, you haven't done
your homework.

I agree that the main and significant difference is that she is promising to get more of our troops out of Iraq sooner than he is.
Whether it would happen or not is on the table.

[RiverStone]

16. I'm not Hillary supporter....but,

I still contend even she is better than any puke. She would not be so inclined to appoint 2 (maybe 3) judges over the next 8 years in the SCOTUS that would further erode our personal liberties --- for probably the next generation.

That being said Big Blue, we both can hope your not in that position - as I'd far rather see Obama on The Hill than Hillary!

If not - she still gets my vote and we would miss yours.

An back to the OP - if your not gonna support the Dem candidate in the GE - is there really any reason to advertise it on DU? Maybe take a break?


peace~:)

[Big Blue Marble]

28. I, too, hope that I will have to not have to make that decision.

That is one reason I am speaking out. There are many Democrats that feel this way. I have 5 in my own family all dems, who have declared
they too, will not support her. These are passionate people from the left. All marched in the streets against the war. All really care
about the future of our country. They nor I consider our decision lightly.

We are done with this kind of politic, politics which includes scare tactics that say we will say
and do anything to get nominated then elected and you better vote for us because the other party is worse.

I have fallen for that argument for decades. I am done.

I speak here because I think it is important for those that are here to understand that these fear tactics are running out steam.
Just like the divisive politics is running out of steam. We demand better from our party. We demand better for democracy.

And we demand better for the country that we love.
And I will keep speaking out about something that is a core value for me, authenticity in government.

This is something you will never have with the Clintons in power.

[Zodiak]

36. If you don;t mind, I'll take the advertise argument

What we Edwards supporters are saying...at least a few of us, is that there is a huge risk in her nomination. A risk that I would not take if I were thinking strategically. While the primaries are still going, some of us are saying "Hey, you better think again about voting for Clinton" because we feel the revulsion deep in our hearts for her and at this point cannot vote for her. I know many others...too many, some of whom will vote for McCain, unfortunately because he is a "maverick".

She polls the worst of the top three against McCain. I've seen the responses to her answers in debates, and independents just do not get inspired by her. That is an unbelievable handicap to take willingly.

But that aside, if she gets in, it will set progressives back a long time because the party will become more Steny Hoyer and less Russ Feingold. Plus it will set us up for another American lovefest with the pukes...they have short memories and the Democrtic party will fail to distinguish itself with the DLC firmly at the helm.

While there is time, I am sounding off a warning. You will find me eerily silent about the issue once the primary is over should Clinton get the nomination...I won't even talk about the election. But I did my part....I said my peace and warned you (the collective you, of course).

But I'll still be on DU.

[RiverStone]

38. I agree

And appreciate that if she gets the nod - you will remain silent on the election.

Sometimes I get reminded mid-thread that I've put a cart before a horse (or donkey on DU).

It would probably have been best to post this OP after the nominee is known. For I believe if Obama gets the nod (and I hope he does) that the posters declaring they would refuse to vote in the GE will be far, far less then if Hillary is the nominee.

She'd still get my vote - but to make assumptions with two candidates in the race was a little premature (on my part). Too late to delete - will just ride it out.

Thanks for sharing :hi:

[Zodiak]

34. I am of like mind with Big Blue Marble

As we have learned, fear can be manipulated, and voting out of fear of Republicans has only weakened the party more and more by the corporate influence and the dilution of our principles.

If I have learned anything at all about the Democratic party over this time, I realize that it is a failure by design. There are way too many corporate/DLC representatives, and they side with Republicans and openly hate the "left" consistently. Most of the excesses of the last 7 years has been the direct result of DLC-sponsored "bipartisanship". They prevent progressive candidates from getting on the ballot in many places, or dry up the well of progressive candidates and leave them withering on the vine.

And it is these Democrats that Hillary will bring with her to the White House. She said herself that Tom Vilsack would be the kind of cabinet to expect from a Clinton presidency. All of the sudden, the DLC becomes entrenched even deeper into the leadership and speaks even more for the party. In this manner, progressives will be further marginalized and the American public will go right back to loving on the Republicans again for another generation.

I will not vote for the DLC...ever. I have studied their voting records and their actions within the party and I have decided that they are moles. If the party is to be strong and have a chance at being able to help the people and distinguish itself with voters long-term, the DLC cannot be allowed the bully pulpit again.

I will not put a DLCer in the White House just because he/she is a Democrat. As far as I am concerned, it is political suicide.

At least with Obama, I know that I will not have someone who has such entrenched and anti-progressive allies as well as a political history of helping cover up for Georgie's Daddy.

If progressives were smart, they would MAKE Hillary put progressive positions and progressive appointments on the table before votig for her. At least that way, they get something...anything. Being zombies for the party out of fear of Republicans makes you very predictable and unworthy of consideration by the party. That cycle needs to be broken.

[NoBorders]

7. Is it just heated rhetoric?

I know that some people say it, and I have FELT that way at more emotional times, but I know I will vote for the Dem candidate. Yes, some folks probably really mean it, but some of it could just be people being contrarian out of temporary frustration, no?

[RiverStone]

18. Maybe --- but after an appropriate grieving and/or venting...

period...either your with us in the GE or not.

Not much grey area there.

And I say if your NOT with us, then please --- for the good of the order --- take a DU break or at least refrain from doom and gloom posts. They serve no purpose and do our cause not a damn bit of good.

[SammyWinstonJack]

9. How many more of these threads do we need?

I'm voting for Edwards in my state primary if he is on the ballot. I haven't made up my mind yet if I will support the nominee. Pretty sure I will "fall in line" for the GE, or maybe not. I won't announce my decision here. For obvious reasons. Okay? :eyes:

[RiverStone]

20. No need to proclaim anything...

My OP's main point was there is no need to announce that your NOT voting in the GE. And registering your pimary vote for JE makes sense. I just hope we have your vote in the GE. That's hope - no arm twisting...

Sadly, I have seen quite a few of those threads that are basically, fuck this - I'm outta here - I'm done with the Dems because A or B or C will not get the nom. But maybe folks will chill after time heals the deep sadness at JE's or DK's departure.

And yes, people are free to say WTF they want - but we are close to the point where a unified and optimistic message needs to take focus for the very long haul ahead. Our battle should be with the RW wacko pukes - not dissing the one party that can beat them (and WILL WIN in November!).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Here's why.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

“Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only, no matter how big its membership may be is, no freedom at all. Freedom is always freedom for the man who thinks differently. “
Rosa Luxemburg

[RiverStone]

24. simple question...

After the primaries are history, if you do not plan to support our nominee in the GE - why post anything promoting that? How will that help the Dems win?

Remember, this is not an open political forum. It is democratic underground. And Dem means generally supporting the cause (see the rules).

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. I'm just stating how I will vote. Not "promoting" anyone or anything.

I assume that most DU'ers are adults capable of making their own decisions.

And, I may very well vote for a Dem. I'll most likely write one in.

[NightWatcher]

15. I think everyone will mellow out by November and do the right thing

[RiverStone]

25. Your probably right!

Appreciate the optimism.

Maybe I could even mellow out a bit.


Cheers :)

[_Wayne_]

17. Many of the posts come from imposters, people who "support" Obama by trashing Hillary

[inthebrain]

21. What if one of those Dems was going to be Lieberman?

Like in 2000.

Let's be honest here. The party right now follows the line of it's leadership(The DLC which is heavily entranched with right wing Hawks from CATO) and a lot of people are just out to string along the left without offering anything up.

Hillary Clinton supported the Iraq War for the past 5 years. She is a slap in the face and emblimatic of this party being ineffective taking on this wat seriously. America has had enough of it and wants it to end. She does not offer up a viable alternative for those folks that want a wholesale withdrawl.

Folks and this party talked a big game about getting us out of there and they cough her up as a potential nominee.

Obama claims to want to end this war as well but only offers redeployment as option. It's pretty much the same thing as Hillary.

The left in the party kinda feels used at this point. As rightly they should. For all the years everyone talking about the media screwing with the candidates everyone just fell right into their laps.

[RiverStone]

27. I don't think any real Dem would touch Loserman...

with a 10...no make that a 100 foot pole.

In January 2009, that prick will no longer be relevant because our majority in the Senate will ensure that.

We won't even need to mention his name - ever!

[inthebrain]

30. They did in 2000 when they selected him as a VP

A lot of these candidates did squat to tell Lieberman to succumb to the wishes of the voters and stay home against Lamont.

If Lieberman was our VP we'd be voting for him as successor to Al Gore. And there is no way Gore would have been ably to stave off the pressure to go into Iraq with Lieberman as VP and those folks in congress.

Something in this party should stink like a rotten egg to a lot of folks.

[Fox Mulder]

22. I am a Kucinich and Edwards supporter...

and I'm still going to vote for the Democratic nominee in the GE. There's no way in hell I want McCain or Romney as President.

[RiverStone]

29. Thanks Fox...

:hi:

The truth is out there.

[HooptieWagon]

23. I don't think anyone here is going to vote Republic

but they may vote democratic (small d) instead of Democrat. A write in vote for a Democrat who's not the Democratic ticket (ie: Al Gore, DK, JE) certainly falls within the spirit of DU, IMO. Otherwise, we're no better than FR.

[MagsDem]

31. How condescending can you get?

The problem is NOT that my candidate didn't win, although it is a bummer. The problem is that if our party is stupid enough to nominate Obama, well then they have finally picked a guy that I cannot hold my nose and vote for. I cannot tell you how liberating it was to know I didn't vote for that moron Bush while he was busy fucking up everything he touched.

I AM NOT going to vote for a guy, even if he is a Dem, that is completely, in every way, unqualified for the job. I will not spend the next 4 yrs feeling like an idiot for going along with the crowd. I don't think he has a farmer's chance in hell of beating the rethug anyway. But if he does get to the GE he will have to win without my vote. Dem or not.

So, I will sit out voting for a president for the first time in 29 yrs. Simple as that. And yes, I will probably still read and post to DU. I don't need your permission.

[RiverStone]

35. Won't take that bait...

If Obama is the nominee and you continue to diss him going into the GE, you may want to start planning your tombstone.

During the primaries - you can punch all ya want. Few --- if any, land. :hi:

[Yukari Yakumo]

37. Then take my challenge...

If Obama is the nominee, you will agree to have your account tombstoned. No ifs, no ands, no buts.

I'll extend this challenge to anyone who wants to take it. Regardless if you're a Hillary supporter or an Obama supporter, if your candidate is not the nominee, you will agree to have your account tombstoned. No ifs, no ands, no buts.

I won't take the challenge myself, I'm satisfied with either one as the nom and I'll support whoever it is.

[ErnestoG]

32. No one on DU knows who will or will not vote in the GE, save for themselves.

So all this handwringing about it, or these incessant and idiotic "general election pledges", are just silly.

Make the best case for your candidate and leave it in the hands of others to vote their conscience...or not. That's all you can do.