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Kerry, unlike Hillary, spoke out against Bush several times before Bush invaded,

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 06:03 PM
Original message
Kerry, unlike Hillary, spoke out against Bush several times before Bush invaded,
including this speech at Georgetown University on Thursday, January 23, 2003:

As our government conducts one war and prepares for another, I come here today to make clear that we can do a better job of making our country safer and stronger. We need a new approach to national security - a bold, progressive internationalism that stands in stark contrast to the too often belligerent and myopic unilateralism of the Bush Administration. I offer this new course at a critical moment for the country that we love, and the world in which we live and lead. Thanks to the work and sacrifice of generations who opposed aggression and defended freedom, for others as well as ourselves, America now stands as the world's foremost power. We should be proud: Not since the age of the Romans have one people achieved such preeminence. But we are not Romans; we do not seek an empire. We are Americans, trustees of a vision and a heritage that commit us to the values of democracy and the universal cause of human rights. So while we can be proud, we must be purposeful and mindful of our principles: And we must be patient - aware that there is no such thing as the end of history. With great power, comes grave responsibility.

<...>

Second, without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. He miscalculated an eight-year war with Iran. He miscalculated the invasion of Kuwait. He miscalculated America's response to that act of naked aggression. He miscalculated the result of setting oil rigs on fire. He miscalculated the impact of sending scuds into Israel and trying to assassinate an American President. He miscalculated his own military strength. He miscalculated the Arab world's response to his misconduct. And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm.

So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War. Regrettably the current Administration failed to take the opportunity to bring this issue to the United Nations two years ago or immediately after September 11th, when we had such unity of spirit with our allies. When it finally did speak, it was with hasty war talk instead of a coherent call for Iraqi disarmament. And that made it possible for other Arab regimes to shift their focus to the perils of war for themselves rather than keeping the focus on the perils posed by Saddam's deadly arsenal. Indeed, for a time, the Administration's unilateralism, in effect, elevated Saddam in the eyes of his neighbors to a level he never would have achieved on his own, undermining America's standing with most of the coalition partners which had joined us in repelling the invasion of Kuwait a decade ago.

In U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the United Nations has now affirmed that Saddam Hussein must disarm or face the most serious consequences. Let me make it clear that the burden is resoundingly on Saddam Hussein to live up to the ceasefire agreement he signed and make clear to the world how he disposed of weapons he previously admitted to possessing. But the burden is also clearly on the Bush Administration to do the hard work of building a broad coalition at the U.N. and the necessary work of educating America about the rationale for war. As I have said frequently and repeat here today, the United States should never go to war because it wants to, the United States should go to war because we have to. And we don't have to until we have exhausted the remedies available, built legitimacy and earned the consent of the American people, absent, of course, an imminent threat requiring urgent action.

The Administration must pass this test. I believe they must take the time to do the hard work of diplomacy. They must do a better job of making their case to the American people and to the world.

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.


Kerry has never wavered in calling out Bush on his immoral war, and he led the effort to set a deadline for withdrawal.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
:kick:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Kerry is a cowardly asshole that took our money and refused to fight for US..
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 06:10 PM by Tellurian
I have no use for that slime ball!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Ah, worried about Hillary, huh? Did you hear Obama is leading in Mass:
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. I didn't, thanks! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. "I have no use for that slime ball!"
You're pathetic!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Did Terry McAuliffe take our DNC money and secure election process with it?
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 08:14 PM by blm
NO. So don't play victim about election security when McAuliffe was the one charged with it after 2000s theft, sunshine.

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TornadoTN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
42. If I could reccomend a post, this would be the one
More cherry-picking for Hillary supporters.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Speaking of slime balls
have you felt introspective lately?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. When peeps like you slime Kerry, it proves to me...
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 11:09 PM by zulchzulu
...just how much better he is.

You can't judge good people to save your pitiful ass. Trashing Kerry proves you also just don't GET IT.

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Freida5 Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. His incompetance as Senator allow Bush to win a second term.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. He exposed Iran/Contra
How incompetent a Senator was he again?
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. He has accomplished quite a bit as Senator
Hillary even tries to take credit for the Children's Health Insurance Plan that came from a bill he originally sponsored (the year before it was successful under Kennedy's sponsorship).

There is a lot of blame to go around on Kerry's 2004 loss, but I'm fairly convinced a bit of it resides here. And the more I see of the Clintons, the more I believe that.
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Freida5 Donating Member (649 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yeh right
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. A very strong counter argument, I must say
As informative and well argued as your other post above.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Bill Clinton DEEP-SIXING Kerry's years of work exposing BushInc caused Bush2, Freida.
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 08:24 PM by blm
Or have you been in a trance since since 1993?

SENATOR Kerry uncovered and exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history and Bill Clinton took office on the strength of that work and then proceeded to sweep all the outstanding matters in IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA Drugrunning under the oval office rug.

THAT is what led directly to Bush2, 9-11 and this Iraq war and will be the reason we end up in war with Iran.

YOU want to smear the one lawmaker who EXPOSED the corruption and REWARD the one lawmaker who did the most to protect the criminals throughout the 90s.

Spend some time in the National Security Archives Freida and educate yourself about your country and its ACTUAL history.
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. At least he did that much
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hillary, unlike Kerry, didn't flip-flop a hundred times on her position like Kerry did
for political puposes.

"The war is good. I will seek out and kill them terrorists better than Bush can."

Then, when considering making a run for the WH again, and shrewdly looking at the polls....

"The polls say the war is bad. Time for me to apologize now that it's politically safe for me to do so and because I'm thinking of running again. So I'm a flip-flopper. Big deal, it works!"
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Yeah, she enabled Bush's war crime unapologetically the first time!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Kerry was tracking terror networks since 1985 - what have YOU done? And what did Bill do
with the BCCI report that was in the process of UNRAVELING all the connectors in those terror networks that were being funded by official governments and illegal operations by Poppy Bush's operatives?


Care to share what you know about the deep-sixing of that report after Bill took office to protect Poppy Bush and Jackson Stephens? And whatever happened to the other figures named - Marc Rich, AQ Khan, James Bath, Adnan Kasshoggi, and various Dubai and Saudi royals? What DID Bill do? Ever see any document directing his Justice Dept to pursue those investigations?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. What have you done other than paste the same old tired BULLSHIT propaganda about the Clintons
Thank goodness for you that all you have to do is reach into your archives of slanderous slimeball posts and copy/paste them from there to here a million times a week. Jayeeeesus!!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Truth doesn't change. You just have no appreciation for truth. And I worked for YEARS before 9-11
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 08:42 PM by blm
trying to get attention for the terror issue politically and through the newsmedia.

You want to know what it's like to KNOW these things like the back of your hand, know how serious and dangerous the situation is and then see 9-11 happen?

Those of you who got BORED by the issue in the 90s because the names involved were too weird and hey let's talk about blowjobs and defend Bill for having a girlfriend and all of RW talkradio and most of Washington DC let 9-11 happen, imo.

Because you are all just so darn cool - too cool and hip to read a dumb old book like Kerry's The New War talking jibberish conspiracy theory stuff - or those dumb old BCCI reports. Who cares? There's nothing in there that will effect your life, right?

Well hello 2008.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. The truth...The truth is that you're out to destroy the Clintons at all costs. Why is that?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Why do you continue posting RW talking points and vile comments about Kerry? n/t
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. RW is something you seem to be very knowledgeable about, judging by all your witch hunts of Clintons
Why is that?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. I don't. I post what a horrible campaigner he was. Nothing RW about it, unlike what you do
with your monotonous campaign to get everyone around you to hate the Clintons as much as you do. That is pathetic how you try to twist everyone's arms into hating the Clintons like that. Why not let the other posters make up their own minds instead of feeding them with so much repetitive trash? Do you think they're so stupid that your nonsense doesn't sink in the first time?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Truth is that YOU defend closed government decisions at all cost. Why is that?
Bushprotecting Democrats are a dime a dozen. Unfortunately. And Bushprotecting Republicans are even cheaper and lower.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. So you do agree that you're motive here is to destroy the Clintons then. So be it
You might succeed in swaying a few people, but most aren't dumb enough to fall for it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. My motive for the last twenty years is to fight corruption that closes government to the
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 11:09 PM by blm
citizenry.

Why would any CITIZEN be so alarmed in a fellow citizen's attachment to open government issues?

Why are YOU always siding with secrecy and privilege of closed government anyway? Are you here to destroy democracy at all costs? For the fun of it?

You know, few people here take your proHillary position seriously and think you are just a parody of a Hill supporter.

But I think it's sport to play everybody - for your amusement. And care little for real issues one way or another.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. You've got an awful funny way of fighting it (snicker)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. I use it (your proclivity) to beat MY drums, kiddo.
Edited on Mon Feb-04-08 11:12 PM by blm
And I don't tire of the truth and won't rest until there is a day of Truth and Reconciliation for this country where the people are allowed to hear what has been going on in their names.

Open government advocates annoy you. Wow. Who gives a fock?
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. Your motives here seem cultist...regardless of how many people Hillary's IWR vote killed.
I think that is callously sociopathic on almost a rethug level.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I've seen enough of your motives, Ernesto, to know you're not really one of us
Quite the charade, albeit feeble
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Yes. She believes on Wednesday
the same thing she believed on MOnday, irrespective of what happened on Tuesday (LOVED that Colbert quote).
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Quoting yourself again? Those are not Kerry
Kerry spoke against the invasion before it happened and soon after it occurred when the war had 70% approval. HRC has flipped on what was essentially Kerry/Feingold. She now says things she trashed Kerry for in 2006.

As to the terrorists - a closer quote was that he said it would mostly be law enforcement and international intelligence sharing, occasionally military using special forces - preferably with the cooperation of the other country.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. "In Hindsight, Kerry Says He'd Still Vote for War"
In Hindsight, Kerry Says He'd Still Vote for War
Challenged by President, Democrat Spells Out Stance

By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 10, 2004; Page A01

GRAND CANYON NATIONAL PARK, Ariz., Aug. 9 -- Responding to President Bush's challenge to clarify his position, Sen. John F. Kerry said Monday that he still would have voted to authorize the war in Iraq even if he had known then that U.S. and allied forces would not find weapons of mass destruction.

At the same time, the Democratic presidential nominee said that his goal as president would be to reduce the number of U.S. troops in Iraq during his first six months in office through diplomacy and foreign assistance...

... Since last month's Democratic National Convention, the senator from Massachusetts has been under mounting pressure to provide a clearer explanation of his views on the war, including why he voted for the congressional resolution authorizing the invasion yet opposed funding for it. On Friday, Bush challenged Kerry to answer whether he would support the war "knowing what we know now" about the failure to find weapons of mass destruction that U.S. and British officials were certain were there.

In response, Kerry said: "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it was the right authority for a president to have."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52839-2004Aug9.html



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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. At your link: "Why...rush to war on faulty intelligence...not...give America the truth?" n/t
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. "Yes, I would have voted for the authority. I believe it was the right authority for a president..."
...to have": John Kerry Tuesday, August 10, 2004

Kerry stood by his IWR vote almost two year laters because he still believed that the IWR gave George W. Bush the authority that he needed to have. Sure Jokn Kerry faulted George W. Bush with how he misused his authority as President, but Kerry could not have been clearer about saying that his IWR vote was the right vote to make at the time, because it gave Bush the proper authority. And Kerry stood by approving the IWR, even in hindsight, even knowing in 2004 that no WMD's were found inside Iraq. Here again is the question to which Kerry answered "Yes":

"Bush challenged Kerry to answer whether he would support the war "knowing what we know now" about the failure to find weapons of mass destruction that U.S. and British officials were certain were there."

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Still speaking out against the illegal invasion. Where was Hillary? n/t
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Wow, even when it's put right in front of your eyes, you still refuse to acknowledge it.
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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. Kerry lost against a moron. He said he would never give up. FACTS.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-04-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
38. Kerry, unlike Clinton, bent over and spread wide for the Swiftboaters, without a fight.
He lost me during the 04 election.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-05-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Classy! n/t
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