The Jewish Week News: "Obama frightens me. I can’t put my finger on it. He’s a demagogue."

[bidenista]

Mr Unity has some work to do:

Undecided on the Bima
by Stewart Ain
Staff Writer

...Rabbi Jill Hausman, spiritual leader of the Actors Temple in Manhattan, which is also unaffiliated, said most of her congregants are Democrats and that she was “gratified” that the party had a “woman and a black man running.”

“I voted for Hillary Clinton,” she said. “I think she’s the better candidate and I think she’s a highly intelligent person who reflects my values. She is in favor of signing everyone up for health care, unlike Obama. It only works if everyone signs up.”

Rabbi Robert Levine of Congregation Rodeph Sholom, a Reform synagogue on Manhattan’s Upper West Side, said he believed his congregation was very supportive of Clinton because “she is a good and responsive senator. People feel she did a great job.”...

“I went for Hillary,” Rabbi Schonfeld said. “I don’t like her but at least we have Jewish access to her. Obama frightens me. I can’t put my finger on it. He’s a demagogue. Intuitively I worry about that. It’s not a racial issue. He frightens me because he is an unknown quantity, certainly as far as Israel is concerned.”...

More: http://www.thejewishweek.com/viewArticle/c36_a4421/News/New_York.html

[knowledgeispwr]

1. No candidate is loved by everyone.

It's never a good idea to take a few instances/statements and make broad generalizations.

[sidwill]

2. I see you hid your profile.

Why?

In other news, looks like you are really rackin up that post total, by my calculations you are posting at a rate of about 50 posts per day.

Prolific, if eerie.

[bidenista]

6. because you were being weird about it

I see some things haven't changed. :D

[sidwill]

9. I merely pointed out that you just joined and were posting at an unusaully high rate.

So how much effort does it take to post 50 time s day on average with all of those posts being anti-Obama posts?

[bidenista]

10. a great deal

Thanks for the concern.

[rodeodance]

72. given that the IPer has been willing to discuss/engage instead of hit and run posts, I saw WELCOME

[CyberPieHole]

107. I may not be right on this, but I believe it is against DU rules to point out "newness"...

Unless it's to greet a new member. What exactly are you trying to imply? Why don't you spit it out?

[TomInTib]

14. So what's to hide?

Hell, I would've posted my goddamn home address if the space was there.

And 'Gender', 'undeclared' is about the silliest s**t in the world to me.

"Duh, I dunno, let me call my Mother and ask."

[bidenista]

17. really?

There's plenty of space for you to write out your home address in this thread, if you like!

I just don't want creepy/sad posters (no-one named, of course) constantly commenting on when I joined, why I joined, and how many posts I'm posting per day. If they're too dim to make pertinent comments, they shouldn't post on the thread.

[Marrah_G]

70. It makes it easier to tell who the people are who are here just to cause trouble.

You know.... the types that post 50 times a day since the day they joined, only post about one thing and enjoy causing arguments. You know the type.

But even with profiles hidden Duers are pretty good at sniffing those people out.

[Catchawave]

98. You have a donor star! That's all I need to know :)

:hi:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

11. Nothing but malicious innuendo oozing from this new arrival.

Nice to have others paying attention. And your take on Murkin is spot-on as well.

[DURHAM D]

19. I have noticed that this poster mostly puts up articles w/links.

So where does the "malicious innuendo oozing" happen - in your mind?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

22. Links negate innuendo?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4447827#4447917

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4423922

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4448476

[DURHAM D]

23. Nice try - need a hanky? n/t

[HCE SuiGeneris]

26. Why would I need a hanky?

[DURHAM D]

27. You are a whiner. eom

[HCE SuiGeneris]

30. OK. There you have it. I have been exposed.

Well done!

[rodeodance]

74. That is a RUDE comment for an IP who has posted a serious article. grow up!

[CyberPieHole]

109. "new" arrival? Aren't there rules regarding drawing undue attention to someone's "new" status?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

3. That's troubling.

[sidwill]

7. Oh and the chorus chimes in, also with a hidden profile.

Shocking.

[northzax]

29. I'm sorry, is my profile acceptable?

maybe my member number is low enough for you? ok? Can I speak now?

JWR is a rag. But in this case, it Comes fairly close to my personal feelings about Obama, his speeches, while inspiring, leave me a bit off. I am not sure why.

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. Your personal feelings about Obama are that "At least we have Jewish access to Hillary Clinton"?

That's what the article claims.

Most of these people who are "afraid of Israel losing its only ally
in the government" seem to only want to prevent a Palestinian state,
that is the only ramification of the "more support for Israel" which
is a minority of American Jews or Christians.

As if Bush's messianic "support for Israel" were anything but a disaster.

[northzax]

86. no, my personal feelings are

that there is something missing from all the pretty speeches.

[Meshuga]

89. Reform Judaism (largest Jewish sect in America)

Reform Judaism falls in line with the Israel Policy Forum, not AIPAC. The zealots on both sides of the coin are the ones who scare the candidates from saying what they should say when the majority in the center (Jewish and non-Jewish) would be content if a candidate came out to say:

"If I am elected President, I will do everything in my power to bring about negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians with the goal of achieving peace and security for Israel and a secure state for the Palestinians. As a supporter of Israel, I believe that Israel’s surest route to security is by reaching an agreement with the Palestinians. Furthermore, I believe that achieving an equitable Israeli-Palestinian agreement will advance America’s interests throughout the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace between Israel and the Arabs will only be achieved by means of U.S. leadership and I intend to provide it."

This rabbi knows Clinton's position. The rabbi is wrong in not seeking Obama's position which would make the rabbi pleasantly surprised, I am sure. Then you take a quote from the rabbi to make implications of Jewish lobby conspiracy. Make sure to seek and learn what he really means otherwise you will seem like you are only appealing to stereotypes.

[txaslftist]

134. If with Obama we have even a chance of breaking AIPAC's hold...

on our middle-east policies, I'm with Obama.

[Marie26]

88. Join the club.

There was even a thread on this - why do people feel uneasy about Obama. Racists one & all, of course. :eyes: This article is basically just one man's opinion, & he seems to distrust Obama because he doesn't think Obama will be as supportive of Isreal. Still, that word resonates w/me - demagogery. I think that's part of the thing I couldn't put my finger on.

DU thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4336004

Demagogy (also demagoguery) (Ancient Greek δημαγωγία, from δῆμος dēmos "people" and ἄγειν agein "to lead") refers to a political strategy for obtaining and gaining political power by appealing to the popular prejudices, emotions, fears and expectations of the public — typically via impassioned rhetoric and propaganda, and often using nationalist or populist themes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demagogue

[hisownpetard]

131. Since you inserted a link to one of my OPs, I'd like to clarify: The OP was meant to start

a discussion on why some people say that there's something about Obama they don't like, but they "can't put a finger on it."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4336004

This struck me as odd, because I hadn't heard that sort of phrase used about any other candidate, and I was asking people to look inside
themselves and get more specific.

I think it fostered a decent discussion.
Therefore, I don't understand this part of your comment: "Racists one & all, of course. "
Who is making that statement - you?
Are you implying that that was part of my OP? Because, as stated in the OP, it clearly was not.

Please explain.

[Marie26]

152. Sure.

I put an eyeroll after that to indicate my feelings on that. People on that thread, & this thread, have suggested that anyone who doesn't like Obama, or who expresses unease about aspects of his candidacy, is a racist who won't admit it. And I think that's ridiculous. As you've posted, it's a theme that comes up often & IMO it's worth looking into to figure out what people think. Your thread inspired a good discussion. This is a sort of flamebaity thread, & I'm contributing to that, but oh well.

[hisownpetard]

153. Gotcha.

Thanks for the explanation.
Wasn't quite sure about the 'eye-roll' or how it was meant.

[CyberPieHole]

112. Sorry to dissapoint you, but NOT everyone is pro-Obama...get used to it...and stop whine~ing.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

129. Obama has problems in the Jewish community.

[CyberPieHole]

144. Could have something to do with Obama's "mentor" Jeremiah Wright praising Farrakhan...

nah...that couldn't have anything to do with it. Everyone knows that Farrakhan is a wonderful man who has the highest respect for Jews.:sarcasm:

[Hawkeye-X]

4. See my thread asking about debunking that myth...

[tabatha]

5. The Rabbi has not done enough research on Obama.

OBama has stated his support for Israel.

The Rabbi is thinking with "emotions, passions, and prejudices" (see definition of demagogue).

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. he doesn't frighten me, and I'm Jewish

[hisownpetard]

130. Me, neither.

[lurky]

12. Demagogue:

From the American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition

demagogue <(dem-uh-gog, dem-uh-gawg)>

A politician who seeks to win and hold office by appeals to mass prejudice. Demagogues often use lies and distortion. (See Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin.)

Is this guy for real?

[sidwill]

13. Ironic ay.

I can't remember any time that Obama's used demogoguery to instill fear in his supporters.

[Usrename]

36. WTF? Demagogue? Me too! Then I found this entry:

Main Entry: 1dem·a·gogue
Variant(s): also dem·a·gog \ˈde-mə-ˌgäg\
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek dēmagōgos, from dēmos people (perhaps akin to Greek daiesthai to divide) + agōgos leading, from agein to lead — more at tide, agent
Date: 1648
1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power
2 : a leader championing the cause of the common people in ancient times


:smoke:

[H2O Man]

69. Correct.

Malcolm X used to be called a demagogue; he pointed out that the word's most basic defintion is "a teacher of the people."

The OP is attempting to promote divisions based on fear, hatred, and ignorance. How sad that democrats would resort to this.

[joshcryer]

47. You don't think the Harry and Lousie ads were demagoguery?

[whatchamacallit]

15. Too bad Obama's not a neocon hawk for Israel like Hill

"Obama frightens me. I can’t put my finger on it. He’s a demagogue. Intuitively I worry about that. It’s not a racial issue. He frightens me because he is an unknown quantity, certainly as far as Israel is concerned.”

That has to be the most demagogic statement I have ever read.

[understandinglife]

20. Roger that ... Obama's got the neoconsters and the AIPACers and AEIers ...

.... sucking wind ... and its only going to get worse for all those last century war mongers ...

[Popol Vuh]

33. That was exactly

my impression after reading the OP.

[Hardrada]

35. This is excellent. Their bad karma will catch up to them.

[Kahuna]

46. Ditto. nt

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

51. Kick to that.

Quite the juxtaposition, isn't it.

[txaslftist]

136. ditto. Thanks.

[Josiah1982]

149. Obama's pastor Jermiah wright is an anti semite

could Obama's feeling towards Israel reflect his pastors views?

[scheming daemons]

16. F.U.D.

Bidenista is engaging in FUD.... trying to scare jews away from Obama.

[sidwill]

18. How pukish of him

Of course pointing this out makes you an anti semite.

[bidenista]

21. why should it make you an anti-semite?

Need to deal with some unresolved issues there, I guess.

I do think it's interesting that a campaign which depends entirely on vague feelings of hope unsupported by widespread knowledge of policy specifics (cough, cough) is vulnerable to vague feelings of fear like those described in the OP.

A house built on sand.

[nashville_brook]

24. "we have Jewish access to her"...WTF is "Jewish access"?

[JVS]

56. Well I've heard about Greek access....

[Leopolds Ghost]

68. Well, I know the Oval Office has French Doors... shouldn't we be worried about thaT?

[Azathoth]

25. He's an unknown quantity on Israel, therefore, he's a demagogue

:eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. "I can't put my finger on it"

Uh huh.

I think we all know what that means...

[northzax]

34. oh no, do tell me

because I'm not really sure myself.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. Be glad to

"I can't quite put my finger on it" (in this context) = I don't trust fancy-talking niggers in expensive suits.

Clear enough?

And before you get all sniffy with "Oh, so everybody who opposes Obama is a racist" routine, no. Just the one's who claim that they "can't quite put their finger on it."

[northzax]

44. all sniffy?

Sure, but you just called me a self loathing nigger, so pardon me for not being charming about it. Yes, something is off in his speeches, they are pretty, but something is missing. But pardon me, massah, for having my opinion.

[alcibiades_mystery]

63. Ay yay yay

"you just called me a self loathing nigger"

Nice try. But you know that's not true.

[Qutzupalotl]

31. Smear posts frighten me.

No wait...not frighten...what's the word? :think:

Disgust.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

37. Very much in agreement.

We (as in democrats) are better than most of the BS that has plagued this forum of late.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. He's "an unknown quantity, certainly as far as Israel is concerned".. not according to Ha'aretz.

Obama supports Israel. Period.

[Leopolds Ghost]

71. "Today, he sounded as strong as Clinton, as supportive as Bush, as friendly as Giuliani."

"At least rhetorically, Obama passed any test anyone might have
wanted him to pass. So, he is pro-Israel. Period."

--Haaretz.

Apparently that is Haaretz's standard.

Support for neocon principles.

And what have AIPAC and Israeli foriegn policy have ANY RIGHT to impose
"tests" on US candidates in a PARTY PRIMARY in the US??????????????????

[Warren DeMontague]

125. Barack Obama supports Israel's right to exist & defend itself. So does Hillary.

If you're looking for a candidate that doesn't support Israel's right to exist, you're outta luck as far as this party is concerned.

[Leopolds Ghost]

157. The Point of the Article is that he & Clinton oppose Palestinian statehood and wants to bomb Iran

placing them to the right of Colin Powell.

[Leopolds Ghost]

75. Haaretz priases Obama for sharing Bush and Clinton's "common viewpoint on Iran"

Iran

"The kinds of communications that he would engage in and the pressure he envisions on Iran may differ in some respect from the other candidates," an adviser to Barack Obama told the NY Sun yesterday. And in the speech he made today, in Chicago, Obama showed his cards. He was clear, but not as tough as Edwards' "Let me be clear: Under no circumstances can Iran be allowed to have nuclear weapons" or Clinton's "we cannot, we should not, we must not permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons."

Here's what Obama said: "The world must work to stop Iran's uranium enrichment program and prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. It is far too dangerous to have nuclear weapons in the hands of a radical theocracy. And while we should take no option, including military action, off the table, sustained and aggressive diplomacy combined with tough sanctions should be our primary means to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons."

As I wrote for Slate last week, I don't believe there's a big difference between Democrats and Republicans in regards to Iran-policy. Nevertheless, Obama today sounded somewhat different, more cautious, than the 2004 Obama I quoted at the end of that Slate piece: "In light of the fact that we're now in Iraq, with all the problems in terms of perceptions about America that have been created, us launching some missile strikes into Iran is not the optimal position for us to be in ... On the other hand, having a radical Muslim theocracy in possession of nuclear weapons is worse. So I guess my instinct would be to err on not having those weapons in the possession of the ruling clerics of Iran."

[whatchamacallit]

39. I love how people rec this garbage up, but are too chicken-shit to leave supporting comments

really gross.

[Exultant Democracy]

40. I can’t put my finger on it= I'm racist and don't want to admit it

There is a reason Obama wins in caucuses, cause people are rightly embarrassed to be racist in front of the neighbors and peers.

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. Ding ding ding

Old as the hills.

[Enrique]

128. or doesnt realize it

if you can't put your finger on it, think about it! Maybe it's prejudice. Same with irrational hatred of Hillary. If you can't put your finger on it, maybe you're afraid of a woman president!

[ecstatic]

143. exactly nt

[gmudem]

42. Many in my family are Jewish

And I would be as well if I wasn't an atheist. :) That being said, none of them think Obama is a demagogue and I know several are voting for him.

And the rabbi seems to have no basis for calling Obama a demagogue, and essentially seems to think that Hillary will continue to support Israel unconditionally.

[Meshuga]

54. Just because you are an atheist it doesn't mean you are not Jewish

Jewish is a title for someone who was born Jewish and is a member of the people. Unlike Christianity where you have to believe in order to be a Christian. But a Jew doesn't have to follow Judaism or believe in anything to be called a Jew. Some call themselves atheist Jews.

Regarless of what you consider yourself or not, since only you can decide that, Gobama! :-)

[Eurobabe]

43. Hey Bidenista, from another Bidenista

Can you stop posting the Obama hit pieces, PUHLEASE??

Come on, Joe would not approve of this. Stop it. It's just causing bad blood.

Thanks. Peace

48

[Botany]

45. A biggot would say:

“I went for Hillary,” Rabbi Schonfeld said. “I don’t like her but at least we have Jewish access to her.
Obama frightens me. I can’t put my finger on it. He’s a demagogue. Intuitively I worry about that.
It’s not a racial issue. He frightens me because he is an unknown quantity, certainly as far as Israel is concerned.”...

[johnnydrama]

48. meaning

Obama won't blow up Iran like we think Hillary will?

[Meshuga]

59. Just because he is a Jewish rabbi it doesn't mean is wants war

Especially for him, since it is unlikely that a reform rabbi would support invading Iran.

The reform movement was against the war from the beginning and they are vocal against doing anything against Iran. The reform action center have had many anti-war action items regarding Iran and Iraq. There is an extreme pro-Israel in the Jewish community which this Reform rabbi is probably against (with him being a Reform Rabbi), there is an extremely anti-Israel crowd within the left, and there is a middle term that wants Israel to exist in peace with its neighbors. Being wary that a candidate might be anti-Israel and be influenced by one of the extremes is a valid concern. He knows where Hillary stands as far as that middle term is concerned. I am for Obama and I know where he stands from what I have seen so far. If he held a biased position like a Jimmy Carter, I would honestly not support him.

[Leopolds Ghost]

84. Yeah, I'm sure Obama will be anti-Israel

After all he has a muslim middle name. :eyes:

"launching missile strikes on Iran is not an optimal position for us to be in... on the other hand, (allowing Iran to have nuclear weapons) is worse."

--Obama

[Meshuga]

87. Who is saying that Obama is going to be anti-Israel because of his middle name?

I know there is an email that went to synagogues and it has been denounced by the very movement this rabbi is affiliated with (http://rac.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=2631).

From the quote you have included, Obama's position goes along with the Central Conference of American Rabbis (this Rabbi is a member of CCAR, BTW) which calls for applying diplomatic and economic pressure on the government of Iran in its quest for nuclear weapons technology. If this rabbi gets informed he would be satisfied with Obama, like I am.

[Leopolds Ghost]

79. Obama has pledged to blow up Iran to prevent them from getting nukes

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=832667&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1

Barack Obama's big speech on Israel is now over, and as expected, the candidate made no secret of his support and dedication to the special relationship between the U.S. and Israel.

Obama's words to Haaretz last week. Today, he sounded as strong as Clinton, as supportive as Bush, as friendly as Giuliani.

At least rhetorically, Obama passed any test anyone might have wanted him to pass. So, he is pro-Israel. Period.

As I wrote for Slate last week, I don't believe there's a big difference between Democrats and Republicans in regards to Iran-policy. Nevertheless, Obama today sounded somewhat different, more cautious, than the 2004 Obama I quoted at the end of that Slate piece: "In light of the fact that we're now in Iraq, with all the problems in terms of perceptions about America that have been created, us launching some missile strikes into Iran is not the optimal position for us to be in ... On the other hand, having a radical Muslim theocracy in possession of nuclear weapons is worse. So I guess my instinct would be to err on not having those weapons in the possession of the ruling clerics of Iran."

On stopping Iran: "Tough-minded diplomacy would include real leverage through stronger sanctions. It would mean more determined U.S diplomacy at the United Nations. It would mean harnessing the collective power of our friends in Europe who are Iran's major trading partners. It would mean a cooperative strategy with Gulf States who supply Iran with much of the energy resources it needs. It would mean unifying those states to recognize the threat of Iran and increase pressure on Iran to suspend uranium enrichment. It would mean full implementation of U.S. sanctions laws."

On American aid to Israel: "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs."

On Israel's security: "Our job is to rebuild the road to real peace and lasting security throughout the region. That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: Our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy. That will always be my starting point."

On the Palestinian leadership: "We should all be concerned about the agreement negotiated among Palestinians in Mecca last month."

On U.S. mediation: "We should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli prime minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States" - or is that about Syria?

Is he really as friendly to Israel as any other candidate? Yesterday, writing about Clinton and Edwards, I mentioned the fact that "the constant interest in, and the open sympathy for, Israeli affairs that is required of all important elected officials in the most Jewish of states in the U.S. has had its effect on" Clinton and Giuliani, The Israel Factor favorites. Obama doesn't have this advantage. He isn't from New York and, more importantly, is relatively new to the public sphere.

Money

It is no secret that Jewish money plays a big role in the Democratic Party. "They don't have the number , but have the means to get the voters," a prominent Democratic operative told me last week. That's why I told the told the NY Sun that "I don't think his real motive is to win votes. It's, of course, Jewish money." Will he get it? Here's one clue. Rep. Robert Wexler of Florida is going to co-chair Barack Obama's White House drive in the state. And why would Wexler do such thing? Because "I have spoken with Barack to discuss the dangers facing our ally Israel, and I am convinced there will be no stronger supporter of Israel than President Obama", his statement says. It "appears as Obama plans a big day on March 25 of fundraising in Florida, where he will be looking for help from the Jewish Democratic donor community", writes Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun Times today.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=832667&contrassID=25&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=1&listSrc=Y&art=1

No mention is made for support for a Palestinian state -- something that Bush's State Department supported under Powell and the Democrats don't.

[The Backlash Cometh]

49. "Jewish access to her."

Does anybody know what that means?

[matcom]

50. AIPAC

[The Backlash Cometh]

58. You know, I was thinking, can it be that obvious? Would they want it

to be that obvious?

[Meshuga]

83. Just because a person is pro-Israel

it doesn't mean he/she is aligned with AIPAC. And AIPAC is not a means of communication between the Jewish community and politicians. Your assumptions appeal more to stereotyping than anything.

[matcom]

154. you ARE kidding right?

really?

don't stereotype ME k?

[Meshuga]

52. This affiliated Jew here is a supporter of Obama. So is my Rabbi

And so are many members of my congregation. The context of this article, BTW, is undecided about who to support for the nomination. If Obama wins the nomination the Jewish vote is going to go to a democratic candidate at about the same rate it usually goes: around 75%.

[TZ]

53. Me too

Although, I think the 25% who won't go Dem are my rich Cleveland relatives who in 2004 gave my family this priceless quote:
"GWB is the ONLY one who can protect Israel!!". Hows that gone? Hamas, war with Lebanon. Nice.....:crazy:

[Meshuga]

61. The more orthodox and some of the more well to do usually vote

for the Republican. But even the well to do in the Reform movement vote for the democratic candidate. The Reform movement is the largest Jewish movement in the U.S. and it has been heavily criticized for aligning themselves with the Democratic party. Obama will get the Jewish vote unless he starts saying some outrageous stuff. :-)

[mmonk]

55. People who say things like "frightens me"

without real substance are the ones that scare me. Sounds like a sort of code to me.

[robbedvoter]

57. Or maybe, they are people who have deja vu, because their personal history

[mmonk]

60. The insinuations that seem to jump out in your remark

make me want to leave DU.

[mmonk]

64. Seems to me the demagoguery is coming from the article.

[michaz]

62. This garbage is getting old and sickening!

[apnu]

66. wow.. New Yorkers going for the NY senator.... There's a surprise.

I bet we could find some Rabbi's in Chicago who will say the same thing about Obamma.

What a silly article.

[Meshuga]

67. bidenista, what is your personal take on what the rabbi had to say about Obama?

Do you think the Rabbi is right? Should he be really worried about Obama? What do you mean Obama has some work to do? Do you have any data on the sentiment of American Jews as a whole? Or are you going to base the sentiments in this one tiny example?

You added this thread and now it would be nice to read your take. Thanks!

[polichick]

73. BIG SURPRISE - not beholden to the Israel Lobby like Clinton...

Won't be so easy to have the US fight Israel's wars with Obama in office.

[rodeodance]

76. simple minded post--go look at his record. He has been actively courting the Jewish vote.

[polichick]

78. He won't go to war with Iran on Israel's behalf...

You can count on that! Many Jews have never gotten over his comment about the Palestinians suffering. Our foreign policy won't be one-sided with Obama.

[rockymountaindem]

106. Because if there's one thing that unites Jews, it's hatred for the Palistinians

:sarcasm:

[polichick]

110. Behind hatred is FEAR. nt

[Meshuga]

115. What on earth does that mean? n/t

[polichick]

117. Exactly what it says...

The hatred between Jews and Palestinians is all about fear ~ just like the hatred between Democrats and Republicans. It's time for people to transcend their fears and meet on common ground. Obama knows that.

[Meshuga]

120. Just because...

...There are Jews who might hate Palestinians it doesn't mean that Jews and the Jewish community in general hate Palestinians. You can't judge others for using prejudice just because you have your own prejudices. Good luck!

[polichick]

123. FEAR is the point - hatred is always about fear...

No reason to be defensive.

[polichick]

93. I would also add that those who feel the need to make such rude remarks are...

...themselves "simple-minded."

[Marie26]

90. They both are,

And both candidates are pro-Isreal, as is the Democratic party as a whole.

[polichick]

91. You can be pro-Israel without being anti-Palestinian...

...and without putting Israel over the best interests of the U.S.

[Marie26]

94. Yes.

Where did I say you can't? The Dem. party is pro-Israel, as are both Clinton & Obama. I haven't noticed much difference at all in terms of their stances on this issue.

[polichick]

95. There's quite a difference in their foreign policy ideas...

Clinton's votes on Iraq and Iran speak volumes.

[Meshuga]

96. But are you implying that this rabbi and that the

pro-Israel Jewish community are hawkish and want war? In your mind, is being a pro-Israel Jew + Supporting Hillary = hawkish zionist? Or am I misunderstanding you?

[polichick]

99. At the time of the Iran vote, there were comments from Israeli officials...

...about needing the U.S. to deal with Iran because they don't have the military capability. I think the Israel Lobby is sometimes inclined to put Israel over the best interests of the U.S.

imo our one-sided approach to foreign policy in that region has made us a target, and I think Obama would take a more balanced approach. His comments about the suffering of the Palestinians that enraged some people showed that he is able to see the situation from both sides.

[Meshuga]

101. I understand that and there are zealots...

...who would be attacking Obama or even Hillary for sympathizing with Palestinian suffering. But what do these zealots, either the halkish pro-Israel lobby in the US or in the Israeli government, have to do with the Rabbi in the OP or with the Jewish community as a whole? Like I asked you in the previous thread, being a pro-Israel Jew + Supporting Hillary = hawkish zionist?

[polichick]

103. imo Hillary represents an old "mind-set" - to use Obama's word...

And that is the critical point here. The new mind-set that Obama speaks of probably threatens some who can't let go of the black-and-white idea of bad guys and good guys. About a year ago, a Jewish friend called to tell me that we can't trust Obama because he's a "Palestinian sympathizer." imo, that's one reason we SHOULD trust him ~ the U.S. can't be an honest broker if we can only see one side of things. We need to "sympathize" with all people who are suffering.

[Meshuga]

114. I am sorry but

The Rabbi's position and the Jewish community as a whole cannot be judged based on your Jewish friend. That would be unfair.

Like I said upthread, all the main stream pro-Israel Jewish communities (including this Rabbi) want to hear from a candidate is:

"If I am elected President, I will do everything in my power to bring about negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians with the goal of achieving peace and security for Israel and a secure state for the Palestinians. As a supporter of Israel, I believe that Israel’s surest route to security is by reaching an agreement with the Palestinians. Furthermore, I believe that achieving an equitable Israeli-Palestinian agreement will advance America’s interests throughout the Middle East and the Muslim world. Peace between Israel and the Arabs will only be achieved by means of U.S. leadership and I intend to provide it."

That would win a lot of hearts at most synagogues.

The worse sin this rabbi has commited is the fact that he did not do his homework since he doesn't know yet that Obama would be his ideal candidate.

[polichick]

116. imo Israel needs to do much more to mend fences with its neighbors...

And stop looking to us to support them financially and militarily ~ it's in our best interests to be on good terms with all parties in the region.

The Rabbi not being able to put his finger on the problem is pretty telling.

[Meshuga]

121. Telling because you cannot help it but...

Judge him based on your own generalizations and prejudice. Good luck!

[polichick]

122. LOL - nice try. nt

[Marie26]

97. Well, now I'm curious

Yeah, Clinton voted for Iraq, Obama was not in the Senate; Clinton voted for Iran amendment, Obama did not vote. But is there a difference in terms of their stance on Israel? I don't think there is. They have both have spoken at AIPAC, both pledged strong military & financial support to Isreal, neither supports a Palestinian state, & Obama has also supported "taking the gloves off" and using force against Iran to stop their nuclear program.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/281249,CST-NWS-OBAMA03.article

[polichick]

100. Please see #99 - that should cover my thoughts about this. nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

127. It isn't Hillary Clinton's support of Israel that bothers me

I am a strong supporter of Israel's right to exist. What troubles me about Hillary Clinton, which is apparent from reading the many speeches and position statements at her Senatorial website, is that she has nothing to say about the Palestinian side. There's no expression of any amount of compassion, no mention of any inclusive solutions regarding the Palestinians in any peace proposal, no condemnation about any actions Israel has taken and only condemnation of the Palestinian side. She calls for the release of Israeli soldiers with which I agree. She's completely silent about the release of any Palestinians held by Israel.

What I find troubling, and I can certainly put my finger on it, is that Hillary Clinton has taken only one side where Israel can do no wrong. She has not one iota of feeling or compassion for the Palestinians. It's that one-sided, completely partisan attitude on her part that makes me think that she is the last person to be able to encourage peace between Arabs and Jews in the Middle East. And to me, resolution of the Israel-Palestinian deadlock is one of the keys to peace in the Middle East.

[workinclasszero]

77. " at least we have Jewish access to her"

Just what exactly does that phrase mean?

Neocon access maybe??

[Meshuga]

82. The rabbi is ignorant about Obama

He is making assumptions. And you don't know what the rabbi really meant so you assume the worst possible meaning. Which is worse? Your assumptions or the rabbi's?

[moondust]

80. Translation: He's not in our pocket like HIllary.

I think one of the main reasons Hillary voted as she did on IWR was AIPAC.

[rucky]

81. "She's a good and responsive senator..."

Yeah, the reporter never got out of Hillary's home state, much less Manhattan.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

85. I don't think Jews or Israelis need to be concerned about Obama

he's fair and will find a way through with Israel and the rest of the ME.

[txaslftist]

139. When did Israelis get a say?

Last I heard, they weren't US citizens.

They're also sitting on over 200 nuclear weapons and don't have ginormous deficit. They can take care of themselves without any help from us. It's time we let them grow up.

[Egnever]

92. I went for hillary cause she will have more wars for israel

Got it. Thanks for sharing.

[zulchzulu]

102. Another stupid reason to vote for the Road To The Past Scandals candidate

"I can’t put my finger on it. He’s a demagogue."

What a schmuck.

:puke:

[NorthernSpy]

104. WTF is "Jewish access"?

How does "Jewish access" differ from any other kind of access?


:eyes:


Some very lame and silly opinions in that article.

[godai]

105. Rabbi:"Obama frightens me. I can’t put my finger on it"

What a "wonderful" example of a Clinton supporter. I wonder what the Rabbi really thinks about Obama.

[polichick]

108. My guess is he's threatened by the new "mind-set" Obama talks about...

...in reference to foreign affairs.

[CyberPieHole]

111. K&R for Obama/Jeremiah Wright/Louis Farrakhan n/t

[Indenturedebtor]

113. Bah this is disgusting on so many levels

I'm not even going to get into all of them. Here's yet another Jew for Obama who doesn't support war with Iran, Iraq, or Hillary Clinton for the nomination. Reform Judaism is about as politically and philosophically liberal as religion gets.

This Rabbi needs to get his head out of his ass and get informed. Jewish access? What the hell is that? Oh wait can't finish the post... have to go to my Global Jewish Conspiracy meeting. :hi:

[bagimin]

155. I was going to comment on this ...

but especially being Jewish, you did a better job than I could have. Well done.

[Tatiana]

118. Guess you proved your point? n/t

[surfermaw]

119. Why wouldn't he, with so little experience,

I know we are really reaching because of the fool we have in he white house, but we had better becarefull, we know the Clinton record, where is Obama's

[SoxFan]

124. Someone needs a hobby or a girlfriend

[BeyondGeography]

126. The black man frightens me. I can't put a finger on it. It's not a racial issue.

[txaslftist]

135. LOL. My thoughts exactly.

[hill08]

132. he is a demagogue

Obama is a demagogue. His whole campaign is founded on one speech in 2002, and he even had nothing at stake when he gave it, knowing that the Chicago political machine would be able to push him into the Senate seat no matter what he would say about the war.

[txaslftist]

133. He is an unknown quantity ... as far as Israel is concerned...

And since that's all that matters...

We'd be so much better off if we severed ties with that little racist, apartheid police state.

[hill08]

142. are you an antisemite?

Why do you hate Jews?

[txaslftist]

145. I hate nations that build ghettos or walls around minorities.

Or who insist that one race or tribe should have special status over others.

I have nothing against Jews, but I loathe Israel and the way the Palestinians have been made to suffer. And I hate that my involuntarily rendered tax dollars are spent to support that vile nation, as much as I hate the fact that my tax dollars go to support the vile, oppressive kingdom of Saudi Arabia or went to support murdering Contras.

And I remember the USS Liberty, too. It is obscene that US tax dollars support Israel.

If you want to equate "Jews" with "Israel", that's your prejudice problem, not mine.

[MadHound]

137. I.E. she's beholden to AIPAC,

And we can count on her to continue providing Israel massive support politically and militarily, especially if Iran goes up.

[BklynChick]

138. racism

[Josiah1982]

150. Yes obama's preacher has been accused of being a racist.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402083.html

[blm]

140. Should this go in the I/P forum?

.

[txaslftist]

146. dupe

[txaslftist]

147. It certainly should be hidden somewhere.

[EFerrari]

141. "I can't put my finger on it.He’s a demagogue. Intuitively I worry about that."

Okay.

Maybe we should all vote our fears?

[IndianaGreen]

148. There is a "pro-Israel" rightwing, and this is part of it!

How come the US media ignores the Israeli peace movement, but always provides a free megaphone to the most extreme elements?

[txaslftist]

151. You mean the Murdock media, the Disney media or the GE media?

They all do fine with wars, and they are all just fine with the most extreme elements.

It's a money making enterprise, selling war.

[Tatiana]

156. Another positive contribution. n/t