On my local news right now re: Florida Delegates

[Coexist]

"the Florida Democratic Party has recently been urged to hold a caucus so the Florida Delegates can be seated. Party officials have refused."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. Why Can't They Just Hold A Primary

They are more (d)emocratic because more people can participate free from pressure of their peers...

[my3boyz]

2. Okay...if they refused they can shut the hell up about

seating delegates. Obviously, the party is not concerned about the voters. They want to change the rules mid-game. I'm sure they would not agree to another primary either.

[angie_love]

3. Why did they refuse?

[Tarc]

4. Who's going to pay for it? The DNC? You?

They already held their vote. Whether it counts or not is up to the DNC to decide down the road.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. As A Floridian I Am Beyond Pissed

Here's my argument...

It was Florida (legislators) who moved up the date, not the voters! They are the ones who should be punished. I thought most decent folks oppose collective punishment... This isn't the Army where the whole platoon has to do one hundred push ups because one soldier messed up...

If the DNC was sincere about punishing the folks who moved up the primary they would have withheld campaign funds from the Democratic legislators who voted for it...

There is no compelling reason to disenfranchise 30,000,000 Floridians and Michiganders...

[sfam]

8. Good argument n/t

[Tarc]

9. Hrm, never considered the "collective punishment" angle

Might be something to pursue there, legally.

Withholding funds from the legislators would hurt their reelection chances and give Republican opponents a leg up though. Not that they don't deserve it of course, but paying that price might cost all of us too much.

Shitty situation all around.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Exactly

They didn't want to withheld funds because that would have hurt the legislator's re-election chances so they punished the (innocent) voters...

How can you disenfranchise the fourth and sixth most populous states in the nation?

[Maribelle]

12. In the sunshine state, all of the version of the bill are on-line.

You can see how the bill started out as the first version in its vanilla state. In the second version, you can clearly see the edits that were made to the first version with strikeouts and added text. And so on through the subsequent versions until you reach the final bill. Through this process you can see the bill grow into a full-fledged election reform bill.


The republicans in the republican-controlled legislature could have passed the first version without one single vote from any democrat. Yet the democrats were successful in become a strong force in the wording of the true election reform bill, and so willingly signed on to the final version.

This was totally out of the hands of the Florida Democratic Party from the onset. They now are squarely rooted between a rock and a hard place.

There's some real fixin to be done in the fields of sawgrass and swamp, and folks aren't hardly taking too kindly to Obama and the DNC these days.

[K Gardner]

14. I agree, but there was NOT a fair primary election held there. FL and MI need to hold a caucus

or primary and hell yes, let's seat those delegates after a FAIR election in which candidates campaign and no pledge cards were signed. Damn the party leaders.. enough public outrage and I guarantee FL and MI will be holding fair and equitable primaries/caucuses without party interference.

[mmonk]

18. How do you keep them satisfied without allowing them

the attempt at controlling the primary rules for the national party? Tough question.

[Coexist]

19. but the leaders of the DEC are elected by voters who show up and sign up

The people elected to represent their voters did this.

Anyone can get involved in their party.

We vote for our lawmakers - and are required to follow the laws they pass, whether we think they are fair or not, whether we agree or not.

[RoadRage]

20. I completely agree...

There is no reason why FL & MI can't re-do a primary on a set date. I disagree with allowing the lopsided results that were declared "void", but you should certainly be able to have a re-do.

Why won't they consider this?

[LiberalFighter]

23. They can't hold a primary again because that is run by state/local govt.

Which requires the state to pass a law to hold another election.

They can conduct a caucus and it would be paid and run by the party.

[LiberalFighter]

25. I had suggested that the super delegates not be seated but the elected be seated

And just to make it clear. None of the state DNC committepersons, state chairs, county chairs, Florida elected officials could be elected as district or at large delegates.

[elixir]

26. I agree. What was Howard Dean's role in all of this and why did he let it come to this?

Obviously these delegates are going to be huge if the primaries play out as anticipated.

[Coexist]

17. because they are spoiled children - the DNC offered $800.000 to help

they said NO.

[rodeodance]

5. oh my

[Uncle Sinister]

7. jesus. this was a reasonable solution to having Florida count.

Oh well, the state party chair should be hung by his nuts. I am sorry for the FL voters, they've gotten the shaft from their own party twice now.

[pampango]

10. FL Dem party officials just keep digging the hole deeper.

First, they ignore the agreement they entered into regarding the primary schedule and move their primary up. Who suffers when the national party sanctions them for breaking the agreement? Florida's democratic voters - no campaigning and no delegates awarded.

Now a possible remedy: a caucus. The Florida Dem party's response: No way! They must realize that by refusing any new selection process there, the convention has two choices. To not seat delegates from Florida and Michigan, at least, not until a nominee is chosen, or seat them based on a sanctioned primary with no campaigning. The first disenfranchises those states voters who did nothing wrong other than live in states with stupid party officials. The latter will alienate Obama supporters who believe that he has proven to that he is an effective campaigner who attracts more voters the more he campaigns in a state which he couldn't do in Michigan and Florida.

If Hillary has the lead in elected delegates at the time of the convention, then she has the moral right to the nomination and may as well seat the Michigan and Florida delegates. They voted for her and she would have the nomination anyway. If, though, Obama has the elected delegate lead at the convention, he will have the moral right to the nomination. Then what do you do about the delegates from these states, if their state party officials have refused to any alternative selection process?

[Uncle Sinister]

13. god, sometimes we dems just suck shank. no wonder 1/2 the nation won't even take us seriously

[workinclasszero]

15. Of course...

They don't want the people of Florida to have a REAL choice!

They want to cheat Hillary into the nomination!

If it happens Hillary's name and reputation will be blackened forever and the Rethug's will run wild with it in the general.

Hopefully the DNC will stop this outrage before it happens.

Hillary supporters ought to hang their heads in shame over this garbage!

[Apollo11]

16. Florida splits 50-50. So it would make no difference.

Here are the Florida numbers I pulled off the MSNBC website:

Clinton 857,208
Obama 569,041
Edwards 248,604
Kucinich 9,537

On this basis, Hillary can claim 50% of Florida's delegates.

Obama can claim 33%. But the Edwards delegates would probably go with him also.

So it would do no harm to let Florida's delegates split 50-50.

[Maribelle]

21. It's not based on the total votes for each candidate at the state level, but rather by district

#1 Florida has not yet certified the election, but more up-to-date counts for state totals can be found here:

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/enight.asp


#2 As most know by now, state totals are subordinate to district totals when it comes to delegate allocation and not based on rules by Florida‘s division of elections - http://election.dos.state.fl.us/index.html , but rather set based on the Florida Democratic Party rules, which allocate by district. And so far the district results is found here:

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/enight.asp


#3 The post-primary congressional district caucus is scheduled for Saturday, March 1, 2008. This is when they are scheduled to address the pledging of the delegates by district. The number of delegates to the 2008 convention by district can be found here:

http://www.fladems.com/page/-/documents/2008_DNC_DL_Breakdown.pdf

[LiberalFighter]

24. District delegates based on congressional results

At-Large on state-wide results

[LostinVA]

22. As well they should -- the primary votes either stand or they don't

There are no mulligans in politics.