Hillary voted FOR the Iraq war

[NJmaverick]

All this talk about Hillary's experience, makes no sense. Her experience shows she FAILED at the most critical time. She helped George Bush make this biggest blunder, this nation has ever made. That's not experience, that's a warning!

[Smith_3]

1. And she voted FOR clusterbombs.

Meaning she voted FOR children stepping on them ten years after the respective conflict is over.

[oasis]

24. "...bipartisan support for this resolution makes its success in the United Nations more likely,

and therefore, war, less likely"---Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

[killbotfactory]

43. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard

[TheWraith]

53. Particularly when you remember how much of an obvious hardon the Bushies had for Iraq.

Anybody who looked at it objectively knew that that vote was in support of a war.

Clinton either had a total failure of judgement, thinking that Iraq really was a threat, or else she cynically sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives on the altar of not appearing weak.

[killbotfactory]

61. He was originally planning on bypassing the UN altogether

And made statements that he was going to take Saddam out much earlier. Anyone who thought he would honestly commit to a diplomatic solution had their head up their ass.

The fact is he could have attacked Iraq any time he wanted to, already, just as Clinton had done many times previously. The IWR allowed Bush to commit to a full blown war and occupation.

[Smith_3]

52. Spoken like a true opportunist. nt

[niceypoo]

76. Obama supported Israels invasion of Lebanon

http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/ObamaIsrael.htm">Obama supported Israels invasion into lebanon...... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/20/wmid320.xml">in which whole villages were bombed to hamburger with clusterbombs.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0307/3177.html">His stance is so extreme and rooted in ignorance that even some supporters of Israel find it disturbing

But of course he gets a pass on that...
Oh, the hypocracy...

[DUyellow]

2. Link... or this OP is BS

[mikelgb]

4. series?

[DUyellow]

6. what no link?

[mikelgb]

10. you think the OP is BS? really?

you need someone to provide a link?

I don't think there is a link good enough for you

[DUyellow]

16. no, i know. I also know that 22 Dems voted Nay and clinton voted Yea. I just like the bumps

here is the link http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237">The Vote

[NJmaverick]

35. 22 had guts and could be trusted

The one running for president couldn't

[Carolina]

59. They had more than guts

they had:

1)Morals -- they knew that pre-emptive war against a nation that never threatened or harmed the US was wrong

2)Political courage -- they were willing to speak and act (vote) against liars and thieves (theft 2000) pushing a war resolution just ahead of mid-term elections

3)Sound judgment -- their good sense and decency dictated that trusting the squatter in chief would lead to a grievous mistake

4)Leadership -- they exhibited all of the above!

UNLIKE HRC, day one my ass.

[goldcanyonaz]

3. "I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. ... 'What would I have done? I don't know"

Uh huh...

[NJmaverick]

15. How about answering for your candidates faults

Instead of trying the Republican misdirection tactic? Obama spoke out AGAINST the war, enough said!

[Bread and Circus]

65. Here's what he did: he stood up and spoke out against the war. But let's take another

vote for example

2006 Senate Amendment 4882 to ban the use of cluster bombs that dismember small children in civilian areas.

Clinton voted against that ban
Obama voted for that ban

How do you defend Clinton's vote?

[557188]

5. And Obama votes to fund the war

Same old shit.

[goldcanyonaz]

8. I'm surprised he even showed up to vote on that day.

[MH1]

50. Obama votes to fund equipment for troops in harm's way

Get a withdrawal plan agreed to and fund it, then you can stop any funding of the occupation over and above the funds for withdrawal.

Until you do that, defunding is taking equipment and supplies away from my nephews in Iraq. Thanks but no thanks.

[Carolina]

60. wrong

Supporting the troops once they have sent in harm's way is very different from

Sending (voting to send) them NEEDLESSLY into harm's way in the first place.

SOS, NOT!

[jillan]

7. BUT Obama didn't vote against it either - look at his own comments

RUSSERT: You were not in the Senate in October of 2002. You did give a speech opposing the war. But Sen. Clinton’s campaign will say since you’ve been a senator there’s been no difference in your record. And other critics will say that you’ve not been a leader against the war, and they point to this: In July of '04, Barack Obama, “I’m not privy to Senate intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don’t know,” in terms of how you would have voted on the war. And then this: “There’s not much of a difference between my position on Iraq and George Bush’s position at this stage.” That was July of '04. And this: “I think” there’s “some room for disagreement in that initial decision to vote for authorization of the war.” It doesn’t seem that you are firmly wedded against the war, and that you left some wiggle room that, if you had been in the Senate, you may have voted for it.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2007/11/obama-speak.html

Say what you want about Timmy - but he does throw the pol's words right back at them.

[NJmaverick]

17. I have read/heard his anti war speech

Never heard a single one from Hillary.

[shaniqua6392]

9. No shit Sherlock.

And Obama has voted yes on every funding bill for that same war. The more I see of this crap, the more I can not stand Obama. Is the kind of person who writes posts like this the same type that is supporting Obama? I don't think I have anything in common with Obama fans, so how can I have anything in common with him? Give me some real reasons to support him and I will think on it.

[cali]

13. Actually, he hasn't. I posted his voting record this morning

It's available at projectvote smart. Furthermore, he's voted for virtually every bit of legislation that mandates getting out of Iraq.

And if you're letting your opinion of Obama be molded by posters here, you're not very swift. Honestly, if I let my opinion of Senator Clinton be molded by the many unbelievably rancid asshole Clinton supporters posting here, I'd hate her. I don't hate her at all because I'm smarter than that. Isn't a shame that you aren't.

[shaniqua6392]

22. Wow! Aren't you just something??

The only reason I have let my opinion be molded by posters here is because, from I have seen, they can not stand to hear any negatives about this man. It seems like his followers are like sheeple and I just don't get it. It is not that I don't like him and I would vote for him in the GE. However, any real information on Obama can not come from any of his supporters here. I have had to look elsewhere for it. I also see from most of your previous posts that you are continually insulting and degrading to anyone who does not go along with what you say about Obama. I would call you "not very swift" or "not very smart" like you just called me or I could call you something even worse, but I am too much of a lady and I will just ignore you. You have a blessed day now!!

[NJmaverick]

30. LOL! Ironic this is coming from someone

Actually trying to defend Hillary's pro Iraq war stance!

[shaniqua6392]

37. I did NOT defend her Iraq War stance.

Where the heck did you get that from? That is one of her extreme NEGATIVES that I am definitely willing to discuss. Now you tell me ONE negative about Obama. Can you come up with one? Because if you can not find one fault in that man, then you are worshiping him. There is only one man that is worth worshiping and his name is not Obama! He is human. He can not walk on water. He is not perfect. Obama defenders just never find any negatives to speak about and that is what worries me. It frankly reminds me of Bush lovers who never find any fault with what he has done. It just scares the heck out of me.

[NJmaverick]

42. You are not willing to discuss it

You want to talk about anything BUT her major failure.

[shaniqua6392]

46. You know nothing about me.

I am done with you now. Thanks for reinforcing my opinion on Obama supporters though! Over and out, Good buddy.

[NJmaverick]

48. LOL! I know you which is what upsets you

Like Hillary you want people to listen to what you say, rather than what you do or have done.

[Carolina]

62. touche

HRC supporters can spin like tops justifying her IWR vote, but all the speechifying then and now by HRC herself and her myopic followers won't change the truth!

Fact is: THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.

[NJmaverick]

49. LOL! I know you which is what upsets you

Like Hillary you want people to listen to what you say, rather than what you do or have done.

[NJmaverick]

23. Guess you don't like facts and the truth

You would rather we forget stuff like that, like George Bush and the Republicans would.

[Bread and Circus]

67. There's a huge difference between starting a war and supporting the troops once you've put them

there.

You can't defend Clinton on her vote and you can't defend her when she voted against a ban on cluster bombs in civilian areas.

If you want real reviews of Obama and Clinton on foreign policy, check out www.fpif.org

[libertee]

11. well, duh...this is not news

[NJmaverick]

26. No it's the TRUTH that you want people to forget

That's a bit different.

[CyberPieHole]

12. Obama said he didn't know how he would have voted...and he has been funding the war...

Obama's no Ghandi.

[MethuenProgressive]

14. All those who think Bush started the Iraq War because of one Senator's vote, please slap yourselves.

Hard.

[SammyWinstonJack]

18. ...

:evilgrin:

[NJmaverick]

34. What Rove like response!

The reality is Hillary shows she couldn't be TRUSTED TO PROTECT OUR NATION'S interestes. Doesn't matter if her vote made a "difference" it matter what she DID!

[MethuenProgressive]

36. You should put some ice on that...

:hi:

[Carolina]

63. no one thinks that

Bush would have started the war anyway. But that one Senator's vote says much about HER political courage and leadership, or rather the LACK thereof!

[DS1]

19. No she didn't. She voted to allow Bush to go, thinking he wouldn't.

Which is the excuse you get. Too bad it simply demonstrates her absolute inability to judge people. She lost a poker game to George W. Bush.

Think about that.

[Fredda Weinberg]

20. It wasn't a poker game. Public opinion has to be taken into account n/t

[sniffa]

39. Yeah, don't bother to lead or anything

Espcecially when those focus groups say otherwise.

[Carolina]

66. exactly, her constituents were against the war

yet did she listen?

She was hedging her bets on HER political future. Why worry herself with the death and destruction her support of GWB helped unleash.

And now, none of her plans for the future mean squat since so much of the treasury is consumed daily in IRAQ!

[nolabels]

44. The idea of public opinion doesn't sound like a very good reason either

How many MILLION people was it marching for peace in New York City at that time?

[NJmaverick]

27. If she thought that, she is an idiot

Anyone with half a brain knew he was going to go to war.

[NJmaverick]

38. She thought he wouldn't, is she an idiot?

We just had 8 years of an idiot president, we don't need any more!

[HughMoran]

21. Haven't heard this one before

doh!

[NJmaverick]

29. It should be repeated often

The most important thing one can get from experience, is the ability to judge the person and what they can do. It lets people know what to expect from someone.

[HughMoran]

31. You mean 10000000 times a day isn't often enough?

Doh! Did you just land here on this planet?

[NJmaverick]

32. I know one time feels like 1000000 times to you

but apparantly it needs to be mentioned more, because it just hasn't seemed to sunk in.

[HughMoran]

33. ok

You're a one person revolution.

lol

[samrock]

25. She voted to get inspectors back into Iraq

She also voted to give Bush the power to go into Iraq IF he deemed it necessary.. HOPING with the inspectors there AND the international community pressure would stop Bush.. BUT Bush is an A**hole.. and A**holes do what they do.. She has said SHE would not have used the power to go in IF she was president and that IF she knew then what she knows now she would not have voted for the resolution.. Obama was not in the senate so was lucky he did not have to vote..

P.S. Bush was SUCH a liar.. I remember many times leading up to that vote he was asked.. Would he go to war and he said.. I have not made up my mind yet.. Maybe we will and maybe we won't.. Which was total crap as he had made up his mind to go in by 09/12/2001!!

[killbotfactory]

45. She voted to get inspectors back into Iraq? Really?

How'd that work out?

[samrock]

47. it worked ... in that...

The inspectors DID go back in.... The international community told Bush NOT to go in.. BUT being an asshat he DID go in.. For THAT alone he should have been impeached but neither BO or HC seemed to want to press that issue .. sigh... BUT the point is she did NOT vote to go to war in Iraq!!!

[Carolina]

69. spare me:

"she did NOT vote to go to war in Iraq!!!"

She voted for an Iraq War Resolution ceding war power to a known liar and failure whose designs on Iraq were well known to ANYONE with a single functioning neuron, long before 9/11.

Please sip some antidote to that Kool-Aid you drank.

[Thrill]

75. Why did she vote against the Levin Admendment then?

[Bread and Circus]

68. www.fpif.org

www.fpif.org

[doc03]

28. Obama voted to keep it going

[bridgit]

40. Bush, Cheney & Rove were going to war with or without the congress don't kid yourself

Many, and not just Clinton, felt the need to attenuate the actions of the president. But g.w. bush was going to war and nothing, or nobody was going to stop him. The greater misjudgment is this notion that every President of the United States is spun from gold when clearly some are subject to mental imbalance

Passages such as, "She helped George Bush make this biggest blunder" fall very short of understanding the mood of the nation at that point in time. While discounting threats to America via enemies both foreign *and* domestic; as though domestic enemies are the only variety and that Hillary Clinton is then a domestic enemy by extension seeking the squander of American blood & treasure for war profits - nonsense imo

Would that the IWR were overseen by a Dem congress

[NJmaverick]

41. She had a chance to put her opinion on record

and she did just that. It showed a fatally flawed judgement.

[bridgit]

55. What she did not have the opportunity to do was write that piece of shit res...

the way it should have been written; that thing was a republican construct and it was going forward with or without reason. Again, the larger opinion of the nation was that *something* was required in response to the towers coming down. Some say that response was Afghanistan. Others disagree with even that, still...

I don't know if you had friends in the towers that day. But I did; dear, long held friends and they died. It is one thing to keep repeating a history filled with ill-results. It is quite another to simply, to merely/conveniently forget historical events. The ability to do either to the exclusion of all others imo "show(s) a fatally flawed judgement"

[Carolina]

70. there was never a need for a resolution AGAINST IRAQ

PERIOD.

Iraq was never an imminent threat. It was bombed mercilessly in 1991 and off-and-on thereafter as well as kept under sanctions.

You cite the friends you lost, but think of all the innocents the US has killed in Iraq? Our so-called leaders with our tax dollars and awesome weaponry have terrorized that nation and yet still IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US. Iraq had nothing to do with September 11th. Osama bin Laden and 15/19 hijackers were Saudis, the others were from Yemen, Egypt and UAE (home of Dubai where Cheney's Halliburton now has headquarters).

This is not 20/20 hindsight. The simple facts above WERE KNOWN in 2001 at the time of 9/11 and in October 2002 when the HRC voted for IWR.

Mourn your friends, yes. But justify taking it out on innocents, never.

[bridgit]

72. Never believing it to be the case; I've never stated here at DU that Iraq was ever a problem...

or elsewhere for that matter; not even in the post to which you've replied...again, "Some say that response was Afghanistan. Others disagree with even that", that beat goes on unresolved & festering due to a pretzel-dent with the attention span of a gnat.

All the best ~

[JVS]

51. Exactly. She's not to be trusted

[Occam Bandage]

54. I think we had a thread on this earlier.

[From The Left]

56. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Hillary's Harpies don't like any discussion of their candidate's voting record or position on policy.

[Martin Eden]

57. So did John Edwards ...

... which would have made it very difficult for me to vote for him either.

The only other consideration for me as large as the IWR vote is who has the better chance of defeating the Republican nominee in the general election.

I came up with Obama on both counts.

I don't "hate" Hillary. I will vote for her if she wins the nomination and I will be ecstatic to have her in the White House rather than John McCain.

But in my judgement, anyone who voted for the IWR in October 2002 showed incredibly poor judgement. It was HUGE, and not something easily overlooked.

[RunningFromCongress]

64. He at least very sincerly apologized..The only thing worse than making the mistake to vote for it

is to refuse to admit it was a mistake. Had Hillary come out and said "I was wrong" this nomination would have been done on tuesday.

[Martin Eden]

71. Had either of them had the sense to lead the opposition in 2002 ...

... he or she would likely have the nomination wrapped up on Tuesday.

I've been disappointed by the Democratic Party many times, but never so much as when more Democrats didn't join Russ Feingold and others who cautioned against and voted against this ill-conceived illegal invasion.

[Beaverhausen]

58. Obama wasn't in the senate at the time - no one really knows how he would have voted

but we do know how he has voted since. He has voted to fund it every single time. Sorry, that doesn't do a thing to bring an end to it.

And spare me he was paying to "support the troops" - that was dispelled months ago. That money is going to Blackwater, Halliburton, et al.

[StevieM]

73. Did she really? I never knew that. It's so rarely brought up. (eom)

x

[Thrill]

74. Any she voted for Kyl-Libermann Iran Resolution

She is a warmonger