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(Taylor Marsh) Obama: Campaign, Cult, or Mirage?

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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:58 PM
Original message
(Taylor Marsh) Obama: Campaign, Cult, or Mirage?
<snip>

Spending time with voters is a good dodge, especially since debates and talking issues aren't your strong suit. Tom Watson calls it Obama's Rose Garden strategy.

Everyone knows Barack Obama and his team have run an impressive campaign. However, for quite a while something else is floating to the top of the message, and it isn't issues or answers. Oprah used it in South Carolina saying, "I do believe he's the one." Ben Smith entitled his post: Messianic rhetoric infuses Obama rallies. That was just the beginning. Inspiration is one thing. But the messianic language amidst the political reality reveals a fraud. The right-wing language and imagery of "Harry and Louise," demonizing Hillary and mandates, which is how we'll get to universal health care. The Exelon story revealing Obama telling tall tales to Iowans about legislation that passed when it didn't, with the truth being he actually rewrote that same legislation, for which he self-lauded himself for passing, for his Big Nuke contributor. Contrast this with Obama attacking the prosperity presidency of Bill Clinton, while praising Republicans for having the ideas of the last 10-15 years, and you've got quite a confused political message. I'm not sure if I'm looking at a politician, a preacher, or a charlatan. Or maybe they're all rolled up into one.

And yet there was something just a wee bit creepy about the mass messianism — "We are the ones we've been waiting for" — of the Super Tuesday speech and the recent turn of the Obama campaign. "This time can be different because this campaign for the presidency of the United States of America is different. It's different not because of me. It's different because of you." That is not just maddeningly vague but also disingenuous: the campaign is entirely about Obama and his ability to inspire. Rather than focusing on any specific issue or cause — other than an amorphous desire for change — the message is becoming dangerously self-referential. The Obama campaign all too often is about how wonderful the Obama campaign is. ... ..

... .. Unless, of course, the next new thing turns out to be a mirage.

Inspiration vs. Substance, Joe Klein

<snip>

Obama supporter Kathleen Geier writes that she's "getting increasingly weirded out by some of Obama's supporters. On listservs I'm on, some people who should know better – hard-bitten, not-so-young cynics, even – are gushing about Barack…

Describing various encounters with Obama supporters, she writes, "Excuse me, but this sounds more like a cult than a political campaign. The language used here is the language of evangelical Christianity – the Obama volunteers speak of 'coming to Obama' in the same way born-again Christians talk about 'coming to Jesus.' ... ..

And Obama Wept


James Wolcott had this to say:

"So spurn me, I voted for Hillary. ... Perhaps it's my atheism at work but I found myself increasingly wary of and resistant to the salvational fervor of the Obama campaign, the idealistic zeal divorced from any particular policy or cause and chariot-driven by pure euphoria. I can picture President Hillary in the White House dealing with a recalcitrant Republican faction; I can't picture President Obama in the same role because his summons to history and call to hope seems to transcend legislative maneuvers and horse-trading; his charisma is on a more ethereal plane, and I don't look to politics for transcendence and self-certification."

<snip>


Full Text
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Taylor "Shillbot" Marsh...
:rofl:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. it's become typical for the worst of the Obama supporters
to dismiss criticism outright. Then attack the messenger.

It's kind of a reflection of Obama's campaign, really
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I'm used to it
They stick their fingers in their ears while spewing barbs at their detractors.


http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. It's become typical for the worst of the Hillary supporters
to roll out any sort of wild-eyed smear against Obama, however baseless, in desperate hope that something sticks.

There's no need to refute the shit promulgated by Taylor Marsh. It's bogus...primae facie. She's a proven liar.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. actually, all Marsh does in this article
is link to other people talking about Obama's campaign.

This issue is growing and ignoring it won't make it go away.

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. The "issue is growing."
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 07:20 PM by jefferson_dem
Joke Line, Taylor Marsh, and others in the MSM tell America we shouldn't be inspired by Democratic candidates.

Good luck with that.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. I've experienced it first hand
outside of this board. You can call it inspiration if you want.

It makes me damn uncomfortable.

I'm not the only one.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. They're trying to pretend it's "just DUers" touting the cult meme
Much like they were trying to claim that it was only DUers who were expressing "faux outrage" over the McClurkin fiasco. They're seriously wrong on both counts and ignoring reality at their own peril.
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Azathoth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. Does anyone but the Hillary cultists really care what Taylor Marsh has to say?
:shrug:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. For somebody who claims to be an atheist...
he sure is gullible.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. YAWN Like I need to listen to anything this Hillary Shill says
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:00 PM
Original message
She needs an exorcism to become the same old Taylor Marsh. So much BS!
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. She's always sucked. She hated Howard Dean when
he ran.
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newmajority Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. So in other words, just another DLC mouthpiece?
Hates Dean, loves Hillary. Certainly fits the profile.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. So says the most extreme Clinton cultist alive. n/t
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ursi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'd love to know if she is on the HRC payroll!
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bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. More shite from Taylor the Hillshill...
:eyes:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:02 PM
Original message
Taylor Marsh-the female Mark Penn
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT
CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT CULT

Rinse and repeat, but especially just repeat...
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billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hey!
Long time no see! In fact, fucking long time no see! :hi:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. Hey yourself!
:hi:
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. BUFFY! Please don't post stuff like this, or else...
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 05:06 PM by Lirwin2
might end up making a college kid cry, while killing a rainbow of "hope" and "change" in the process...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4464463&mesg_id=4464463
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Que Sera
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 05:47 PM by BuffyTheFundieSlayer
My SO and I had an amusing encounter with some Obama supporters in SF the other night BTW. They weren't able to convert us, I'm afraid. :rofl:
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. My encounters with Obama supporters generally ends up going like this:
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 05:52 PM by Lirwin2
Them: He brings hope and change! Say no to the status quo!
Me: What change is he going to bring? What policy differences are there between Obama and Clinton?
Them: He's inspiring! He's bringing people together!
Me: But what about POLICY? As in... the things he will do as president?
Them: Uhhh...umm...



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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. LOL
I'll PM you my encounter. ;-)
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. "the message is becoming dangerously self-referential"
I still think Obama would work out as President, as would Clinton who I favor by a small margin, but his campaign style troubles me as well.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. I know of a DU clergy person who has attended some of his rallies
and likened them to "religious experiences" rather than political rallies. People were crying but couldn't explain why, etc. It's downright spooky.

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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. I saw Obama here in NH, in December.
He was speaking at a local high school auditorium, and my "wife" and I got there early to get good seats. Unfortunately, it was damned cold outside, and they wouldn't let anyone into the building until the "security sweep" was done, so those of us waiting at the front of the line were standing in the cold for nearly an hour and a half (and I for one hadn't dressed for that much time out in the cold).

It was amusing seeing Obama's 20-something campaign workers trying to get this crowd of shivering, somewhat restless New Englanders to join in on some chanting. All they could get was a bit of murmured, half-hearthed chanting going that faded quickly after a few repetitions. The attitude of the crowd seemed pretty clear to me: "Get us warm, show us why we should want to chant about this guy, and we'll think about it." :)

After we did finally get inside, got warmed up, and heard Obama speak, most people came away reasonably impressed. Obama himself started up a round of "Fired up! Ready to go!" that went much better than the outdoor attempts by his campaign workers, but it didn't reach anywhere close to swooning-in-the-aisles enthusiasm. I joined in a bit (I liked what he had to say, after all) but I felt a little funny about it. I wouldn't say I was "disturbed" by it, but just the edge of that feeling was somewhere there at the back of my mind, and I did find myself thinking about a time when I let a friend talk me into joining her for a service at a fundy church.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. How about his revival meetings where the call & response is
Edited on Thu Feb-07-08 05:08 PM by The_Casual_Observer
absolutely tight & precise? I've never seen anything quite like that. It took amost no time for the press to catch on to that guy. It's going to be "cult" from now on.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. *snicker*
that pox ridden political whore is supposed to be taken seriously? Surely you jest.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. Well, you certainly hit a raw nerve.
At least, I think you did, judging from the fact that nearly every reply is from "Ignored."

K&R
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. Heh heh
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. Oh hey, cult: I have the contract signed in blood to prove it
And I know the secret handshake.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. How much difference 4 years makes - I thought we needed charisma to win
That's what I've heard here for three years - from people saying, incorrectly IMO, that we lost because Kerry did not have it. Now, when people concede that Barack has it - suddenly being charismatic is bad and we need someone as uncharismatic as HRC? Consistency is not a strong suit of some.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. Taylor Marsh - Animal, Mineral or Vegetable?
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lxlxlxl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. READ HIS BOOKS YOU ILLITERATE TWITS!
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. STFU, CAPSLORD.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. read who's books, pumpkin?
If you're talking about Taylor Marsh, she's a woman, genius.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. That poster is probably talking about Barack's books.
Way to go. Name-calling and speaking in a derisive tone to one of your own.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
51. Um, your Caps-Lock is stuck.
And I'll pass. I prefer Benadryl for insomnia.
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. I really think Taylor's made a good point here. It's time for Obama to play like the big kids
Get in there and debate, mix it up with Hillary. You'd think he was scared or something. I mean, what better way to spend time with the voters than on televised, prime time debates?
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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Standing in a studio is spending time with the voters? nt
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. You reach thousands more voters in one televised show..oh.. but you can't preen and postulate.
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HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. But the OP was about 'spending time with voters.' Appearing on a TV in someone's living room is not
spending time with them.
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #33
52. You can reach many more voters in a SUBSTANTIVE discussion through debate, not speeches.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. I have lost respect for her.
.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. Taylor Marsh: idiot, moron or imbecile?
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Some people are having a negative backlash to feeling "preached" at
Tuesday my girlfriend talked to a local shopkeeper, an independent film maker who runs a kind of indoor flea market, who told her she had been leaning toward Obama but got one too many emails sent her by people she knew "calling Obama the second coming" which pushed her over the edge into voting for Clinton instead. We are in upstate New York.

There are real raw feelings out there now, pretending they don't exist doesn't make them go away.

However I still strongly oppose anyone trying to spin any of this into calling out Obama supporters as "cult members". That is worse behavior than any of the things people are complaining about regarding their degree of enthusiasm and why. I hope we can bury the use of "cult" online during the primaries once and for all, and I will continue to say that directly to other Clinton supporters.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
35. he does't need a cult------ barrack obama has a posse....

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
42. I knew the cult meme was going to appear, I could see it coming from miles away.
The vociferousness of the howls of outrage from his followers justifies the observations being made in the media.

My friends and I have been talking about the creepiness of Barack's campaign rallies for quite some time. There is no such thing as a mortal savior.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. How dare you proclaim Obama a mere mortal!
:rofl:
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. He's mortal AND divine at the same time.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. ....
:spray:
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-07-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
43. The three most often used phrases in Washington used to attack
a candidate: he or she is (1) a liar; (2) a crook; (3) a nut case. The cult thing is a simple variation of #3.

James Wolcott, if he wants to debase the Obama campaign, needs something a little more original. At least those among us who didn't like Bush* came up with "moron" -- can't he at least match that?
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-08-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
53. K&R n/t
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