Obama disses the DLC.... (this one is funny)

[Bread and Circus]

Read both paragraphs, the punchline is funny... (Obama tells the DLC to fuck off)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4464637&mesg_id=4464637

Going Nowhere: The DLC Sputters to a Halt

In May 2003 the centrist Democratic Leadership Council published its yearly list of "100 New Democrats to Watch." The DLC frequently puts out these lists as a way to publicly solidify its identification with the New Democratic movement within the Democratic Party. The 2003 list, however, contained a number of questionable additions, including then-Illinois State Senator Barack Obama. As a state senator, Obama had continually passed progressive legislation--a record that he vowed to add to when he began his run for the US Senate on a platform of clear opposition to the Patriot Act, the Iraq War and NAFTA, all positions anathema to the DLC. The puzzling addition caused The Black Commentator magazine to wonder, a month after the DLC list came out, whether Obama had been "corrupted" by the centrist group. Obama's reply to the Commentator was indicative of how the DLC plays the "New Democrat" card.

"Neither my staff nor I have had any direct contact with anybody at the DLC since I began this campaign a year ago," Obama wrote. "I don't know who nominated me for the DLC list of 100 rising stars, nor did I expend any effort to be included on the list.... I certainly did not view such inclusion as an endorsement on my part of the DLC platform." After realizing that his name appeared in the DLC's database, Obama asked to have it removed. The message was clear: The DLC needed Obama a lot more than Obama needed the DLC.

more at the link....if you dislike the DLC please keep this kicked :kick:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

1. Hillary's DLC is funded by Big Oil and War Contractors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

[polpilot]

81. Isn't the DLC the right wing of the Republican Party??

Yes it is.

[mojowork_n]

88. Quick kick and fast reply to a great thread

Technically speaking, when naming the "right" wing of the Republican party, you think you'd be naming folks like Ron Paul and some of the other "small government", "small federal budget", "limited intrusions on privacy rights" types.

That is to say, the self-named Republican paleo-conservatives. They're the anti-war wing of the party, traditionally opposed to "foreign entanglements." (The down side to those guys is they're also opposed to what they refer to as social engineering, by which they mean government standing up for minorities, women, the Little Guy, and Social Justice, in general.)

So, the "left" wing of the Republican political machine, then, are the neo-conservatives. The names Darth Cheney, Grover Norquist, Richard Pearl, Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rove come to mind. The Project for a New American Century posse. (Think Chancellor Palpatine.) This is the "let them eat cake" wing of the party.

Only because they've completely overwhelmed and subsumed the traditional right wing of their party, they continue to stand for Big Government, Big (War) Budgets, and major, serious (I'd call them unconstitutional) intrusions into privacy rights, while putting up a facade (think Republican Noise Machine) that they're the ones really standing up for fundamental conservative values.

Whoever figures out how that all happened could be in line for a Pulitzer, but the bottom line is, they get to have the cake, and eat it, too.

The "left" wing of the Republican party? That's Joe Lieberman, Alan Colmes, Zell Miller, and the DLC.

(Footnote -- the word "triangulation" comes to mind here, but it's been a really long day, there's more to it than that, and I've got to get some sleep.)

[Freeusfromthechurch]

110. on reply to: Whoever figures out how that all happened could be in line for a Pulitzer

WAtch the documentaries The Power of Nightmares and The Century of Self by Adam Curtis. Below are the links to both of the documentaries online at Google. They are the most powerful Documentaries I've ever watched and explain how it all happened. Watch them in the order I have them listed below.

The Power of Nightmares link is below

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Power+of+Nightmares+&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&um=1&sa=N&tab=wv&oi=property_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1

The Century of Self is below - copy and paste or google the name

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=The+Century+of+Self+&sitesearch=

[Jennifer C]

128. The Power of Nightmares

Is an excellent documentary. It's an absolute must watch.

I haven't seen The Century of Self, but will be sure to watch it soon.

[mojowork_n]

183. No headphones or earbuds, today, but here's a text link to a summary

I've heard about some of these characters before. Leo Strauss and Sayyid Qutb, the foreign exchange student who freaked out at a 1950's, church-sponsored sock hop?

I think those two are certainly comparable (and deservedly inseparable), but I doubt they could have become as influential as they did, if their views hadn't coincided, or been co-opted by some in the War Party, and the Money Party. Whatever it is we live in these days, the Oligarchy or the Plutocracy. (They used to be one and the same team, but now that the schemers and derivatives scam artists, among others, have helped to bankrupt the country, the Pentagon has a "war" to fight, that the Wall Street guys can't continue to borrow, to pay for.)

Link:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/186211/The-Power-of-Nightmares

[hootinholler]

188. Thanks for the links n/t

[truedelphi]

170. Right,left, left, right, the discussion makes my head spin

However as a white person who way back in the 1980's, had to sue the Latino social workers who denied me Social Services, I understand why Affirmative Action (AA) should be stripped of both race and skin color designations and be about social classes. And why many middle income andlower income people no longer rally around the notion of AA's sanctity.

We don't need AA to help the usual suspects - for instance, when Tiger Woods' children are eligible for college, should they be given preference due to skin color designations over some white kid that grew up in the back seat of his mom's mini van? But right now, that's about where AA is going. It doesn;t really help the bklack child growing up ina real poor area. He or she is already
eliminated for the most part from the pool of college applicants duie to the horrors of that lifestyle.

But it does help the Universities feel good about themselves - "Why lookee, here, we have all these kids of all these different skincolors attending ur clases."

Never mind that it is hardly amazing that a child who is the product of a marriage of two upper class professionals would make it to the University and doesn't need their ethnic background taken into consideration.

[mojowork_n]

181. Sorry, that whole line of argument is a big bag of crap.

Don't buy it, never will.

This white guy looks at the issue in much more detail, and he's not just setting up a stooopid, absurd "Tiger Woods' kids'" straw man:

http://www.housingforall.org/timwise.htm

And here's a specific look at who was being denied what, not that long ago:

http://www.counterpunch.org/witherspoon04212003.html

[truedelphi]

192. I think your citations are saying almost the same thing as I am.

The inequity of being black and very poor, and Latino and very poor are not transcended by Affirmative Action. (At least the first article suggests that.)

My son got into the college of his choice, which so happened to be Northwestern University.

As he was coming from Calif. to Northern Illinois, he wanted to know who his classmates would be.

He was a typical Californian kid. He had friends who were So Islanders, Latinos, second generation Germans, blacks (one from So. Africa) etc .

Having grown up in Chicago in the fifties and sixties, my memory of what Northwestern was like was pretty white bread. I couldn't say for sure, but I said he might be disappointed as to the school having much ethnic diversity.

But within a month of being on campus he was writing me that he was very pleased with the fact that
Northwestern had every bit as diverse a culture as his old San Rafael high school.

Then I got to Northwestern for a visit. All of his friends who were other than white bread were extremely affluent. Since Northwestern is a desired school to get into, to me it looked to me like the school could slide through all the various Titles relating to Civil Rights and non-discriminiation and still stay inside the notion of affluent choices.

Is that what we want as a society? Yep, you ultra rich black applicant, we open our doors to you.

Same to you, Miss or Mister Affluent Second generation Latina/o.

To make AA count it needs to be more social class and economics based than a matter of mere race.

(Perhaps my mistake was not making it clear - I think there are inequiteis based on race, but the inequities apparent in our society can only be taken into account by factoring in economic and social status. So that the poorest of the poor have a hand up.)

[Greyhound]

90. No, the Democratic wing of the Corporate Party. n/t

[D23MIURG23]

100. Elegantly phrased! n/t

[breadandwine]

113. Message from a right winger....

I just received this cryptic message by carrier pigeon from Stella, a right winger from Texas! ---


"Lesson fer Libruls Number 1

Awright Smashmouth. This is Stella the TEXAN from, where else? --- big ole TEXAS, stupid. Ahm gonna lay it on the line fer all you dumb libruls. First things first. Nominate Hillry. SHE’S THE ONE YOU NEED. Cuz the GOP needs someone with a rubber band smile and no ideas ‘cept what she got from ‘Bama and her piddling little put-sosha-security-in-a-lockbox type promises to run against so we can take back the REAL hill, CAPITOL Hill, after you LIBRULS stole it. We’re stealin’ it BACK fair an square, donkey face. Don’t get me wrong. I LOVE you libruls! Just like Ann Coulter’s votin’ fer Hillry! Now you march ta the votin’ booth RIGHT this minute and vote fer WONDER WOMAN. She can’t lose. Pay no attention to Whitewater, Madison Guaranty, the cattle futures scandal, photos of Hillry smoochin’ it up with Yasser Arafat’s wife, Clinton’s third term, travelgate, Vincent Foster, Bill gettin’ impeached, skirt chasin’ all over the White House, Monicagate 24/7/365 and all the rest of it! Ever hear the expression “Don’t fire till you see the whites of her eyes” --- I mean the whites of THEIR eyes, pumpkin breath? Well fergit it. We Republicans would NEVER go dirty on Hillry! What, you think we’re just waitin’ till she gets the nomination? We LOVE Hillry! We can’t WAIT fer her ta get the Dem nomination! We just love her ta pieces! THAT’S why Rupert Murdoch loves her so much! Pay no attention ta all them LEFTISTS tellin’ yuz that Hillry’s road kill in the fall. Now I been hearin’ yuz callin’ Hillry “Cruella deHill.” Now donchoo TALK that way! Hillry’s the nicest candidate there ever wuz! Race card? Fergit it! Trust a Texan! She never pulled no race card! Cuz McCain’s a geezer an we need somebody really DESPICABLE on the Dermacrit side to bring out all us Death’s Head Republicans ta the polls ta vote! Bama’s a nobody but we got a dossier on Hillry the size o’ Fort Knox, motor mouth. But we would never USE it because WE LOVE HILLRY. Listen ta Ann Coulter. No time ta think! March ta the slaughterhouse RIGHT THIS MINUTE and nominate Hillry! Because: We love Hillry. With Hillry you can’t lose. So vote fer Hillry."

I still haven't figured out what to send back by carrier pigeon....

[Caretha]

146. My reply would be

Please do not ever contact me again, via email, phone, snail mail or carrier pigeon, etc. Your shriveled soul and demented mind can only make my life smaller and darker. I prefer to live surrounded by light, laughter and love.

[flasoapbox]

166. Can't tell if this is a real message or a parody.

Y'see, I live in Texas...

[wryter2000]

179. That was my reaction

Whoever wrote that has a pretty low opinion of Texans.

[flasoapbox]

187. I live in Texas and...

...and, uhm...well...ah-ha-ha-haaa...nevermind ;)

[jackson_dem]

2. What policy disagreement does Obama have with the DLC?

0

Obama voted to renew the Patriot Act. He has the same position as the DLC on the war. NAFTA? Obama is a "free trader" just like Hillary and the DLC. Read his book. Either the DLC is "progressive" or Obama himself is a "New Democrat".

[LWolf]

145. Good question. I doubt you will get a substantive answer.

The truth is that there isn't a substantive difference, and you've pointed out some evidence of that. He is a "new democrat" who has conveniently eschewed the DLC label so that he can campaign as a "non-dlc" candidate.

[LSK]

156. free markets?

:shrug:

[katty]

165. Hillary and Obama have a similar voting record

[burythehatchet]

3. Very funny. He's beginning to grow on me. OOPS, I must be a cultist now!

[Thrill]

4. Follow the Hillary money trail

Thats all I have to say

[pauldg0]

85. Follow both their money trails...........

..they are not on the up and up.

The air heads picked these two.

[Greyhound]

91. If you keep paying attention like that you'll end up on a bunch of lists... n/t

[displacedtexan]

5. With so many DLC super-delegates...

You've got to wonder if that stance was wise.

[FiveGoodMen]

8. It was the right thing to do.

[maximusveritas]

9. He wasn't going to get them anyway; Hillary is the DLC candidate

and always has been.

[jackson_dem]

55. Ben Nelson, Tim Johnson, DLC "rising star" Seblieus all endorsed Obama?

They are not blind. They know Obama is as DLC as Hillary.

[maximusveritas]

70. They are red-staters more than DLC true believers

The true believers are the ones who are behind Hillary and her "centrist coalititon"

[Straight Shooter]

77. And I suppose he's going to tell Tom Daschle's group to take a hike.

Barack always wants to have his cake and eat it, too. He'll take the endorsements, he'll accept the power structure behind the scenes working for him, but there's a pure-as-the-driven-snow reason for him accepting their help without being tainted by their label.

Some people would call that two-faced.

[defendandprotect]

102. Are there any POOR "super-delegates" --- ???

[Coexist]

6. .

[denem]

7. Obama was on the first Dean Dozen

[Tatiana]

11. Hey, I'd forgotten all about that! Good catch. n/t

[Bread and Circus]

14. what's the Dean Dozen?

[Tatiana]

17. The beginning of a beautiful movement:

The Dean Dozen by Alison Stanton
Published Wednesday, 05/12/04 @ 10:32 pm
Governor Dean sent the following message to the grassroots this evening.


Several months ago I put out a call to the hundreds of thousands of grassroots activists who had worked on my campaign to run for office themselves. Hundreds of volunteers answered this call. Our new organization - Democracy for America - is dedicated to using its resources to support those candidates in their fight to take our country back from the right-wing conservatives who dominate our government. Today, Democracy for America announces the Dean Dozen - twelve diverse candidates that represent the spirit of grassroots democracy. These will be tough races, and not all of the Dean Dozen may win. However, they will all spread the message that to change America progressives must compete.

These twelve candidates will be followed by hundreds of additional candidates in the next few months.

No incumbents are on the initial Dean Dozen, though Democracy for America will be announcing its support of incumbent candidates soon.

The Dean Dozen are:

Mary Ann Andreas for State Assembly in California. The 80th Assembly District has some of the highest unemployment rates in California, so it's all about jobs for Mary Ann in her race against the Republican incumbent. www.andreasforassembly.com

Ken Campbell for South Carolina State House. A Dean inspired candidate! Oconee County has a chance to put a real community activist and small business owner to work with Ken Campbell. www.takebackoconee.com

Maria Chappelle-Nadal for Missouri State House. Maria has won the support of the grassroots in this race. Democracy for America is behind her in her campaign to take back the State House for Democrats. www.maria2004.com

Scott Clark, Mark Manoil & Nina Trasoff for the Arizona Corporation Commission. The Corporation Commission is a watchdog agency protecting consumers from fraud and corporate abuse. Clark, Manoil & Trasoff became politically active on the Dean campaign and are running as a ticket for the commission. If you live in Arizona and can help them get on the ballot, contact them by email here: [e-mail]

Kim Hynes for State Representative in Connecticut. 28 Republican state representatives in Connecticut ran unopposed in the last election. We won't take our country back if we don't compete. Kim is doing her part. You too can get involved. http://kimhynes.smartcampaigns.com

Richard Morrison for United States House of Representatives from Texas. Want to get rid of Tom DeLay? Here's your chance. Morrison is hitting back at "The Hammer" by competing against him in the Texas 22nd. Join me and get involved in the fight today. www.richardmorrisonfordistrict22.com

Barack Obama for United States Senate from Illinois. In the race to regain control of the U.S. Senate, Democrats have few better chances to pick up a seat than in Illinois. DFA volunteers all over Illinois helped Obama win his primary, now it's time to help him win the general. Stay tuned: I will be on the trail with Barack soon. www.obamaforillinois.com

Rob MacKenna for Hillsborough County (Florida) Supervisor of Elections. Rob is a computer programmer and is fighting to add a voter-verifiable paper trail to the touch-screen voting machines in the largest swing county in the all-important state of Florida! www.rob2004.com

Monica Palacios-Boyce for Massachusetts State Representative. Inspired by my race for the White House, Monica launched her campaign for state representative when she learned that the Republican incumbent had faced no opposition in his last two elections. www.monicaforstaterep.com

Lori Saldana for State Assembly in California. After an upset victory in the primary, grassroots activists want Lori to win in her race for the environment, education, economy and community of San Diego. www.lorisaldana.com

Jeff Smith for United States House of Representatives from Missouri. Campaigning in a 10-way primary for the opportunity to fill retiring Representative Richard Gephardt's seat in Congress, Jeff is an articulate young progressive running an energetic grassroots field campaign that - with your help - could surprise the pundits. www.jeffsmith2004.com

Donna Red Wing for Colorado House District #25. After serving as the GLBT Field Advisor for the Dean for America campaign, Donna has returned to the mountains of Colorado to mobilize progressive activists in communities across her district. www.donnaredwing.com

This year the race for the presidency is unbelievably important. But beside our efforts to evict George W. Bush from the White House, we must expand the base of the Democratic Party by competing in tough races across the country. The Dean Dozen represent some of the bravest candidates in the nation. Democracy for America is proud to support them.

Sincerely,

Gov. Howard Dean, M.D.


http://www.blogforamerica.com/view/3902

[Bread and Circus]

39. That's awesome

[ooglymoogly]

182. Wow! thanks for posting that. nt

[ynp7]

124. Dean is the key

But would Obama back Dean for another round as DNC chairman? Because if neither of them will keep Dean and the AWESOME 50 State Strategy I might just vote for Hillary. Her policy proposals are at least a bit more serious than Obama's have been, and that's something while I'm losing anyway.

[RaleighNCDUer]

167. Well, you might note who is campaigning seriously in red states now,

and who is ignoring them.

Which one is following Dean's 50 state strategy?

EDIT:

And, BTW, welcome to DU!

[wryter2000]

180. Welcome to DU

I'm also a great admirer of the good doctor. I can't imagine Obama would try to unseat Dr. Dean. I haven't any evidence Hillary would, either, to be fair.

[AntiFascist]

10. kicky, kicky....

now if he could only diss the neocon agenda.

[NorthernSpy]

12. til now, I've been supporting Obama only because he isn't Hillary...

Now I'm actually starting to LIKE him.


:toast:

[Auntie Bush]

31. til now, I've been supporting Hillary only because she isn't Obama...

Now I actually LIKE her.
:toast:

[IndieLeft]

111. I can tell you like Hillary

Just like her you have to copy someone else's idea. Did you support her when she authorized the war and voted for the bankruptcy bill?

[stimbox]

13. Obama's the stealth DLC candidate. He is a centrist through and through.

He may have publicly distanced himself from them but his platform reads like the DLC Congressional Agenda.
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ka.cfm?kaid=450006


http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251658&kaid=104&subid=210

Q: Barack Obama, widely regarded as a rising star in the Democratic Party, has publicly distanced himself from the DLC. What does that mean for you?

Reed: Obama's a rock star. He's wisely decided to rise above the partisan fray. He's doing an excellent job of not getting caught up in any of the Washington political games. And he has already proven to be a real iconoclast in the ideas that he's put on the table and the themes he's talked about in his speeches. He's off to a very good start.

Q: Does it challenge the relevancy of the DLC to have such a prominent Democrat give you the cold shoulder?

Reed: Look, I think our goal is for Democrats to know what they stand for and what they are going to do, so that they don't need us anymore. We have plenty of stars in this party, and we want to add value wherever we can. But Barack Obama is doing just fine.

From: You know what? I think as long as the DLC has a brand that people think they need to react to on a campaign, however they have to do it for their own purposes, it makes the organization pretty important.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253637&kaid=85&subid=65


CHARLIE ROSE: Where is Barack Obama, who was just here, and many people view him as -- I've had more than one person say to me on the street, around not just in New York City, but as you know I'm from North Carolina and I travel around the country, have said, Barack Obama is the best political athlete that I've seen since Bill Clinton. Now, I don't know what that says, but where does he fit with respect to the values of the Democratic Leadership Council?

AL FROM: Obviously Barack Obama will have to answer for himself on that. But I think the kind of speech he delivered at the Democratic National Convention, that was grounded in both opportunity and personal responsibility, is exactly at the core of what I think the Democratic Party is about. And I think Barack Obama is a future star of this party. He's just been elected to the United States Senate, so he's got a long future in front of him. But he is clearly a future star of this party.

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253060&kaid=86&subid=84

You can read more articles about him on the DLC site http://www.ndol.org/leaderresult.cfm?keyword=Barack%20Obama&contentid=251658

[Bread and Circus]

15. The whole point of the article is they put him on the list without him knowing...

and he took himself off as soon as he found out.

You will notice that web page you linked is dated May 2003. This is before Obama was aware they put him on the list.

Do you like to stir up shit and obfuscate or do you just not understand "he asked them to take him off the list as soon as he found out"?

Just because the DLC says good things about him doesn't mean he says good things about them.

And where, ever, has there been anything to suggest he's part of the DLC, ever was, or ever will be?

[stimbox]

16. For political reasons he did. He didn't want the taint of the DLC on him.

The DLC LOVE themselves some Obama though, so what does that tell you?

[Bread and Circus]

18. Just like the article says, they need him more than he needs them.

They want to suck up on his good name.

JUst read the article from The Nation and open your mind a little.

[stimbox]

19. Doesn't matter Obama's positions are straight up DLC.

He ditched them for political expediency.
His platform reflects their influence. Hope and change my ass.
It's the same old same old. This party blew it.
Kucinich, Edwards and Gravel were the only way to turn this shit around.
The party shit on the progressive candidates and went with the DLC endorsed candidates.
Vote for Hillary or Obama and the DLC wins.

[Radical Activist]

20. You can say that all you want but Obama is the one with a progressive record.

I notice how all the posts calling Obama conservative have a hard time pointing to conservative votes or policy positions.

[stimbox]

21. He's a centrist, not a conservative.

Are you a radical centrist activist?

[Radical Activist]

22. Obama is a progressive and has a long record to prove it.

I wasn't fooled by Joe Trippi's blog smear campaign against Obama.

[Bread and Circus]

23. thank you. You stated it a thousand times better than me.

[557188]

37. you must have a weird definition of progressive

He's a right of center centrist. On par with a European Conservative.

[Radical Activist]

41. The AFL-CIO, ACLU, League of Conservation Voters, NARAL

and every major group that studies who the most liberal members of Congress are disagree with you. He gets high ratings with all the above groups.

Oh but he said Reagan's name so that must make him center-right I guess.

[jackson_dem]

58. So does "centrist" Hillary

How can Hillary be a "centrist" and Obama a "progressive" when they have the same positions and voting records?

[stimbox]

Thank you. n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

67. Uhm, hey, Mensa...

...I think his point is that they both have progressive records, not that he believes your posit that they're both "centrist" is correct.

Go find someplace else to hump legs, would you?

[jackson_dem]

71. Read the thread next time to save yourself the embarassment of self ownage

stimbox (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Feb-07-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Doesn't matter Obama's positions are straight up DLC.

He ditched them for political expediency.
His platform reflects their influence. Hope and change my ass.
It's the same old same old. This party blew it.
Kucinich, Edwards and Gravel were the only way to turn this shit around.
The party shit on the progressive candidates and went with the DLC endorsed candidates.
Vote for Hillary or Obama and the DLC wins.

Read the People's Weekly World
Alert Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Radical Activist (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Thu Feb-07-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. You can say that all you want but Obama is the one with a progressive record.

I notice how all the posts calling Obama conservative have a hard time pointing to conservative votes or policy positions.
Above all, always be capable of feeling deeply any injustice committed against anyone, a

[Barrymores Ghost]

78. 1000 pardons for assuming your use of quotations was intential irony.

So, I'm to surmise, then, that you're another bitter and jaded Clinton-AND-Obama hater, just hanging around, trying to win hearts and minds...over to...say...Nader, mayhap?

Don't keep me guessin' -- I'm on pins and needles!

[defendandprotect]

106. "Hump legs" . .. love it !!! Actually, it's a style many here have !!!

Some others here, I tend to think of as "gum on your shoe" questioners --- !!!

Ignore the essence of the question; find a really stupid point and stick with it --- !!!

[boricua79]

144. If their records are so progressive (both of them)

then I vote for the one who distances himself from the DLC.

Obama wins my vote

[Barrymores Ghost]

45. I notice you have absolutely NO definition of "a progressive" -- just ad hominem blather...

...care to astonish us all here with your enlightened criteria for assuming the title?

[Truth2Tell]

116. May I?

A progressive supports government funded single-payer health insurance for all citizens.

A progressive opposes the Iraq war AND future wars for resources and empire, like the Iran war.

A progressive supports serious campaign finance reform and/or public funding of elections.

A progressive opposes exploitive pro-corporate international investment deals posing as "free trade agreements" like NAFTA and its mutant descendants.

A progressive speaks out about and works to end the excessive and destructive role of powerful corporations in the lives Americans and the political process of America.

A progressive vocally and passionately LEADS the opposition to rollbacks of Americans civil liberties, like The Patriot Act, or The Military Commissions Act, or the new FISA bill, or the elimination of Habeas Corpus, ad nuseam.

A progressive calls out sitting Presidents and/or Vice-Presidents when they violate laws or abuse the public trust and vocally advocates for their impeachment - or at the very least promises in no uncertain terms to hold them accountable if they gain power.

A progressive supports gay marriage.

That's a short list - if you don't get the idea I could go on.

If either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama are "progressive" then I'm a lizard alien from the planet Xenon.

[Barrymores Ghost]

118. Thank you...

...at least you had the presence of mind to actually elucidate a point. Here's the thing: I'm one-hundred-and-twenty-percent on board with you. Surprised? Don't be. Your signature line image? That was my guy. He was my guy and still is, and I howled across the rooftops and wrote emails and made phone calls and sent in letters to the editor and raised money and sent money to get his message heard. His wasn't the only message I supported. I backed Bill Richardson, and John Edwards...and now that they're all out of the race, I'm looking to back another horse that'll get across the finish line with whatever causes I hold dear that he or she can carry on his or her back. I have a preference, but if that falls through, then I will back the other. Because I don't think this country can take another four years of this madness.

I've been dirt-f*cking poor in my lifetime, spent six-years as an active duty vet in combat arms, and devote my career to affordable higher education and community action. So, kindly don't presume to question my abilities to make a reasoned decision. You want to effect change? Great. So do I. I just don't happen to believe that you'll accomplish it by marginalizing those here in DU who find something - anything - to believe in where it comes to the two remaining candidates. Got a beef? A bone of contention to pick with the candidates? Take it up with them, not the people who would give up a limb to put a stop to this country's slow march toward oblivion.

[Truth2Tell]

122. I don't think Stimbox was suggesting he had a beef with you personally.

He was suggesting that neither of the "remaining" candidates is a progressive and both would be perfectly satisfactory to the folks at the DLC. I think he's right. I too will support Obama if he's selected as our candidate, and I may even support Hillary. But that doesn't mean my eyes aren't open to the reality that we're just fighting for crumbs now. The real race is over and the corporate war party won again.

[Indenturedebtor]

24. Hrmmm well then

If Obama is a centrist, what does that make HRC? :shrug:

[stimbox]

25. She's a centrist too.

A vote for either of them is a vote for the status quo.
They aren't going to change anything, much, except the ethnicity and gender of the President.
Both are corporate friendly and approved. Both are DLC approved.
Hope all you want. They aren't going to change much.

[Bread and Circus]

32. First off you obviously like to talk, especially to yourself...

please give me some unbiased links or shut the fuck up.

But here's a starter for you - www.fpif.org A balanced critique of both... neither is clean but Obama clearly has substantive issues with Clinton.

Put up or shut up.

[stimbox]

46. There are no unbiased links.

Everyone has a bias.

[guruant]

38. Wait, so...

because Obama doesn't want to start a proletarian revolution, means he's just a centrist.

[Barrymores Ghost]

42. So, who do we vote FOR then, stimpy?

Maybe you're not keeping up with current affairs these days, Mensa, but we have exactly two (2) viable candidates in the race to take on the fascist GOP machine, and guess what? Lyndon LaRouche AIN'T one of them...and neither is Karl f*ckin' Marx. I hear you bitchin' - but what's your plan?

<silence>


Yeah. I thought as much.

[stimbox]

48. I don't need a plan. I'm not running for office. I'm a voter.

Who says they are viable? The Party? The M$M? The Corporations? Wall Street? You who wears socks as gloves?

[Barrymores Ghost]

52. Well, just make sure you vote, then.

Then, you can come back and update us all on the cleanliness of your conscience after you waste yours on a write-in for Jim Harris & Maggie Trowe.

[stimbox]

57. Eugene V. Debs said it best.

It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don’t want and get it. – Eugene Debs

[Barrymores Ghost]

64. I think it's better to vote for some of what you want and get it...

...and feel like you are making incremental gains -- than to vote for all of what you feel you have a right to expect and see absolutely nothing for it, have your needs completely ignored and spend the next four years wallowing in your own pathetic misery.

Good luck with the revolution, Che.

[stimbox]

68. Spoken like a true blue centrist.

Have fun with that. Be sure to wash your hands after reaching across the aisle.

[Barrymores Ghost]

75. I'll be sure to loan you my soap and washcloth when I'm done...

...so you can clean up after pissing into the wind.

[Truth2Tell]

123. feel like you are making incremental gains

I think "feel like" is the operative phrase here. If those in power are able to make us "feel like" we are making incremental gains while we are really running in place, then they have successfully diverted our energies from affecting REAL changes. It's much like the uber ironic name of the original poster of this thread: Bread and Circuses.

[RaleighNCDUer]

172. That's it exactly.

We now have NAFTA and all that came with it because the original intent was twisted away from making Mexico a true partner - but it passed anyway because it could be 'fixed' later.

Well, it's later and nothing is 'fixed', except for NAFTA being fixed in place, preventing real reforms that would help both countries.

The medicare prescription plan was approved, even though flawed, and now it is here with all its flaws still waiting to be 'fixed', while costing hundreds of millions of unnecessary costs.

Incremental change is just the illusion of change.

[defendandprotect]

103. You go to PLAN B . . . what's the liberal Democrat's Plan B . . . I'd like to know ---!!!

I'm no voting for either Hillary nor Obama ---

[Barrymores Ghost]

44. Let me guess...

...You're one of Nader's Raiders, aren't you? Gonna save the Free World from fascism and lift up the workers of the world, just like you did in 2000?

<...crickets...>

Well, then.

Good luck with that.

[stimbox]

47. Isn't one of your feet cold?

Do stockings make good gloves?

[Barrymores Ghost]

49. I'll happily lend you my other sock to pull over your head...

...between that and packing your eighth bowl of the afternoon, maybe you can thaw out the dozen or so fully-functioning brain cells you have remaining.

[stimbox]

50. hahahahaha...

packin' bowls hahahaha.
i don't touch the stuff.

[Barrymores Ghost]

54. Whatever you say, genius. (n/t)

[stimbox]

60. Plus you need the other sock to jack off into. n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

65. Wow, that was an impressive rejoinder. Excellent riposte, stimbox Wordsmith!!

I'll bet you've been saving up that pearl of rhetorical wit for at least a couple of days, eh?

[stimbox]

66. yeah, just for you. enjoy. n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

73. Oh I did. I think it's Swiftian in its depth.

:sarcasm:
<in case it escapes you>

[stimbox]

76. I bet you hear that a lot. n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

79. What? Oddly fetishist comments about socks? Nope. You're the first...

...and given your fascination with the myriad uses of them, you're kinda creeping me out. So go ahead and get your last word in, then enjoy your lonely evening in your tiny little Mission-district shithole, watching the cockroaches crawl out of that pan of three-day-old Ramen you've got sitting on that hotplate.

Ciao.

[DaDooRonRon]

82. Wow - such a way with with words you have

I am duly impressed that your fascination with verbiage completely obfuscates your abilities to format even one marginally coherent response, unless of course you think your (ahem) wittiness carries the day.

Hardly, but see how easy it is to create a Websterian shit sandwich?

I sit at the feet of the master in that regard.

Ciao, baby.

[Barrymores Ghost]

87. Here, I'll spell it out for you....

...and I'll type slowly, with long pauses, so you can keep up.

I'm sick...and tired...of listening to a quivering crapload of hyper-idealistic, Marxist leg-humpers dragging down the two remaining presidential candidates that we have in our arsenal who can actually defeat the GOP come November. Correct me if I'm wrong, but winning actually should be the strategy, right?

Look, I gave money and time to Kucinich AND Richardson, and then to Edwards...and now I am trying suss out my own, revised preference from those who are left. Here's the upshot: I don't feel compelled to pinch my nose with either of them, which is more than 99% of the Freepers out there can say about their options. So I'd be most appreciative if the wielders of sour grapes out there who lost the political loves of their lives due to attrition, negligence by the media or whatever their raison du jour is would kindly stop trying to destroy what hope there is left in the Western World to reverse the course of the last god-knows-how-many-years. They have made their point: they don't think Clinton or Obama is progressive enough for their taste. Fine. Let's effin' move on, shall we? Otherwise, they can take their bitching elsewhere.

Clear enough for you, Chickpea? Thanks.
:loveya:

[DaDooRonRon]

161. Currently on the Republican menu

Dog shit - kills you right away.

The '08 Democratic option - leaves and sticks. Kills you slowly over time, but you die smiling 'cause at least it ain't dog shit. (The fact that in this example the logging industry gave millions to the Dems has NO impact on the menu, of course).

Now, way over there is the real food, but you really have to work to get to it. It may even mean eating dog shit for a long time.

Belly up to the real food bar if you got the moxie, Scout.

Or are you too busy cleaning leaves from your teeth?

P.S. Kudos for actually writing the line - "would kindly stop trying to destroy what hope there is left in the Western World to reverse the course of the last god-knows-how-many-years"

Gee. where have I heard THAT "hope" tripe before - ahhh yes, it was in line waiting for leaves and sticks.

Maple or poplar, sir?

[Barrymores Ghost]

193. I worked hard for real food early on, Slappy...

...but now, you say, I'm settling on leaves and sticks. Fine. Out of pure boredom I'll accept your premise. What's your proposal? You think you're going to make a difference at this juncture by cutting down the two remaining contenders and pissing on the fire of enthusiasm that is running through the swelling ranks of progressive voters? Wow, that's productive. Maybe you'll cast a protest vote for a candidate whose name nobody knows or for someone no longer in contention, just because you want your demand for more "real food" on the public record -- regardless of whether anyone notices or cares? Or, you would force all of us who agree with you in principal but are given to pragmatism more than we are self-righteous rage and stubborness join you in your smarmy, superior little dogshit fest?

Thank you, no. Suit yourself, but kindly get the fuck out of the faces of those of us in the reality-based community, if you please. I salute your idealism. But please don't think you're superior to those who have doubtless been around the block a time or two more than you. So, take your protest vote for the Worker's Party and your psuedo-Utopian fantasies and go have yourself a march and red-beans-and-rice social somewhere. Just don't expect others to lemming up and follow you over the cliff and into the dogpile at the bottom.

[stimbox]

97. Figures a DLCer would have contempt for the poor. n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

114. Figures a knee-jerk patchoulli-sniffer would confuse impatience toward shallow ....

...and misplaced, self-righteous so-called-outrage as contempt for poverty.

Hmmmm...must hit a nerve with that kid, huh?

[stimbox]

159. Don't like pot smoking hippies either, do you?

You sure like to make assumptions about people and then attack them with stereotypes.
Wow, you sure that you are in the right place?

[DaDooRonRon]

162. Sadly, yes

We might not be, however. :)

[stimbox]

163. I wonder that too sometimes.

;)

[Barrymores Ghost]

194. You presume I'm a DLCer...

...based on what? My "contempt for the poor and hippies?" I don't know if you smoke pot or hash, or nothing at all. I don't know if you prefer deodorant to antiperspirant to natural salt crystal, and I don't give a fuck. What I do know is that you're young and naive and completely clueless.

[Yuugal]

108. Nothing says DLC shill

like bashing the poor.

[Barrymores Ghost]

117. Yeah, that's what the DLC is all about, I hear...

...mmm-hmmmm, prolly at the tip-top on their "Honey-Do" list each and every morning, even before that first piping-hot cup of stray kitten's blood, I reckon.
:tinfoilhat:

[uppityperson]

173. I find it interesting how no one answers you while you are still posting.

You write a question, then wait, no one answers, then you post "<...crickets...> Well, then." Not too many people are actually capable of mind reading what you are writing before you post it. Odd.

[RaleighNCDUer]

171. The DLC approving of him does not equate to him approving of

the DLC. He is far more vigorous in promoting transparent government, which I would think means he would eschew the use of signing statements to change the law, revisit the Patriot Act and FISA and other such abuses by the government which Hillary seems happy with.

He's not as progressive as I would like but, then, who is?

[mopinko]

33. a neocon nt

[Bread and Circus]

51. LOL. nice.

and on Clinton's foreign policy, you aren't too far off.

[jackson_dem]

56. Name one policy disagreement Obama has with the DLC

[PassingFair]

94. Getting into the WAR. nt

[ynp7]

125. how about Obama does something progressive first?

Obama supports charter schools and his voting record is almost identical to Clinton's in the Senate. He might be a shade better than Clinton is running at, but he's hardly a progressive. It's actually the biggest turn off about his campaign, the lie that he's something he isn't when he could be and SHOULD be that thing. Barack Obama is the kind of guy who has the ability to be one of the greatest presidents ever and really get some good shit done. But then he blows it by not being a progressive at all. Maybe he's lying when he says he's going to give insurance companies a seat at the table. Maybe he's full of shit when he says he's going to reach across the isle to these republican criminals. Maybe he's just being a dishonest little bitch when he doesn't stand up for change in the Senate or even bother to show up to defend the Constitution when it isn't going to be on TV. Maybe he's going to be fucking awesome. But there's no way I'm counting on that.

I may very well sit the caucus out on Saturday, because I really don't want either of them. But you guys need to cool down the Obama hype train, because at this point I'm totally not buying it and my disgust at the fawning from so-called progressives (who are idiotically delusional) is quickly becoming enough to tip it in Hillary's favor. At least for my vote. Obama's going to win the most delegates either way and then we'll have a damn interesting convention.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

129. Hillary's aids: Obama's extremely progressive record....

I guess she was for him before she was against him.

Hillary lauds Obama's progressive record

Hillary's aides point to Obama's extremely progressive record as a community organizer, state senator and candidate for Congress, his alliances with "left-wing" intellectuals in Chicago's Hyde Park community, and his liberal voting record on criminal defendants' rights as subjects for examination.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/04/new-hampshire-will-be-key_n_79873.html

She will say anything, change her stance from one opposite to another.

He's too progressive, he's not progressive. Blah blah blah.

She has to distract from her war vote that caused thousands of troop deaths,
a million dead Iraqi civilians, 2 million displaced.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

127. Hillary Clinton's DLC problem

Her Iraq/DLC War Policy

Hillary Clinton's DLC Problem January 25, 2007

"We know this policy is going forward," said Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York. "We know the troops are moving. We know that we're not likely to stop this escalation. But we are going to do everything we can to send a message to our government and the Iraqi government that they had better change, because the enemy we are confronting is adaptable."

...She herself hasn't lived in anything close to the real world since 1991. She still makes major policy addresses to the DLC on a fairly regular basis.

...Ironically, though she is popular among some base voters and most progressive elites, few activists, bloggers, or local politicians actually want Hillary as the nominee. Local politicians are desperately afraid she will hurt downticket candidates all over the country.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-stoller/hillary-clintons-dlc-pro_b_39566.html

[RaleighNCDUer]

169. It tells me he sees the DLC as a "taint". nt

[stimbox]

26. Nice edit.

"Neither my staff nor I have had any direct contact with anybody at the DLC since I began this campaign a year ago," Obama wrote.

He had contact with them before he began his campaign.
He ended his contact when he realized it would taint him in the eyes of the progressives in the party.
What an opportunist.

[Bread and Circus]

27. I'm sorry you didn't answer my question.

Do you have anything to suggest he's a member of the DLC now, in the past, or eventually in the future?

And the reason you won't answer because the answer is no.

But maybe you can check with Hillary because she is one of the current leaders of the DLC.

[stimbox]

28. It doesn't matter he distanced himself from them.

I don't care if he is a current or lapsed member.
His positions are totally DLC, that is all I'm saying.
He might as well be DLC.

[stimbox]

29. So all of the anti-DLCers who are voting for Obama are still supporting DLC positions.

And even overzealously supporting a candidate that they (the DLC) like.

:crazy:

[rodeodance]

59. Obama wanted to be on the List before He did not want to be on the List.

[stimbox]

63. *zing!*

:think:

[IndieLeft]

112. Hillary voted for the war before she was against it

She voted for the bankruptcy bill then was glad it didn't pass.

[RaleighNCDUer]

174. he clearly said he was put on that list without his knowledge or permission.

When you got nothing, you spin.

[DLnyc]

93. DLC important because Barak disowns them? Logic escapes me.

"
From: You know what? I think as long as the DLC has a brand that people think they need to react to on a campaign, however they have to do it for their own purposes, it makes the organization pretty important.
"

Why do I get the feeling that the DLC couldn't give a damn what I think? The fact that I think From is a jerk would just reassure him of his own importance.

DLC deserves VP, maybe. Otherwise, quaint club of has-beens.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

126. he opposed the DLC's war on Iraq, but Hillary voted for the DLC war n/t

[boricua79]

142. that's what Hillary supporters have been reduced to: claiming he is STEALTH Centrist.

Can't prove it...so you just say it.

Hilllary is no stealth centrist. She's STRAIGHT UP a centrist.

[RaleighNCDUer]

175. It's the flip side of their former claim that she is only running to the right

to get elected, but will actually be the leftist rebel that the RW claim she is when she governs.

Haven't really seen that meme recently. I guess they figured out that claiming their candidate was deliberately lying to get elected wasn't really helping.

[RaleighNCDUer]

168. That whole thing is patent nonsense.

The page capture there is the very DLC endorsement that Obama rejected in the first place.

Reed clearly stated that Obama was working "above the partisan fray" - that is a tacit admission that the DLC is part of that partisan fray.

The first From quote doesn't attempt to defend DLC stances - just its existance. The 2nd From quote just talks about Obama being a great Democrat, with no mention of the DLC at all.

They are trying to claim credit where none is due.

Obama is a centrist, but not a DLC centrist. Compromises he would make are between the right and left of his own party, not with the Republicans, judging by his own statements.

[Auntie Bush]

30. Is Obama pimping out Ophra!

Just wondering?

[Blue-Jay]

36. Is it random post day?

[Exultant Democracy]

34. We need to cut the DLC cancer out of the party. Lieberman Zell and all their friends are bad news.

[Individualist]

35. Hear, hear! DLC is the reason the party is FUBAR.

[defendandprotect]

104. There should be CHEERS for that comment here ---

Now when you talk about Democrats you actually have to say "liberal" Democrats --- !!!

Weren't the Democrats supposed to be the LIBERAL party?

And, now we have a HUGE corporate-DLC/"blue dog" influence over the party ...
right within the party!!!

Unfortunately, DU more often seems like Republican Party-light than Democrats standing against
the Repug corporate party ---

[ChiciB1]

40. Did You Get Your Name From the Roman Poet Juvenal??? I Quoted

something from him the other day and he talked about how things have only become "Bread & Circuses" way back when??

I know this has nothing to do with what you're posting, I don't support either one, but your name caught my eye!

[Bread and Circus]

53. I'm disgusted with the dumbing down of our society (and DU is not much better these days)

and I think my name is commentary on how we are all kept in the dark and fed bread and circus to keep us from asking the right questions.

[ChiciB1]

84. Okay... But Way Back When... Juvenal Made This Statement...

"The people that once bestowed commands, consulships, legions, and all else, now concerns itself no more, and longs eagerly for just two things -- BREAD and CIRCUSES!"

A public that is more concerned with an insatiable curiosity with headlines that serve to titillate! That IS what has happened to THIS country, and WE WILL ALL pay in the end!! We cry about HOW ridiculous the Repukes are for acting a certain way, for following and promoting "wedge" issues, and yet RIGHT HERE at DU... it's all about the HORSE RACE, and who can sling the MOST MUD!

It's sickening and beneath what a GREAT NATION should be! America today, is not the place I've EVER known. And my mind often wonders about ROME!! I don't know if that's a reality as yet, but we're sure heading DOWN rather than UP!! IMHO!!

[Bread and Circus]

99. that piece of poetry has an extractable modern meaning...

and it is applicable now as it was then. Ultimately, genetically, we are about the same and our base impulses and our psychologically framework is the same.

It boils down to this, people who are well fed, comfortable, and entertained are not going to rock the boat. It doesn't matter that children half the world away are being blown up by our cluster bombs and our foreign policy as long as we have buffalo wings and the Superbowl we will for the most part "go along to get along".

However, if people go without food, comfort, and diversion for any length of time >>> the guillotine comes out. Off with their heads, and the cycle begins anew.

Bread and Circus is the thing that keeps people from demanding transformation or revolution.

I use it as a moniker to remind me how it acts as the ring in a bull's nose, or the yoke on an ox. It's the way we are subtly controlled.

Roger Waters (of Pink Floyd fame) titled one of his albums "Amused to Death". I've always like that and the connotations are the same.

[ChiciB1]

191. Was Going To Reply To This Much Earlier, But Got Sidetracked...

Because I saw your name, it made me think AGAIN... it's something I've never forgotten, and it DOES fit so well TODAY as it did back then. And I remind myself of what happened to Rome... you know the fiddle thing??

I'm a Liberal, one of the those who were ACTUALLY around during Pink Floyd fame, and the whole story about them too! But I must say I do agree with all that you've just said. We call those that follow Repukes, "sheeple" but I wonder if we aren't the same in some sense ourselves. Or at least become something like that. There was once a time when Democrats WERE the party of the "big tent" or so it seemed. Today, with sound bites and MSM hawking all the time, people have lolled themselves into some sort of comfortable APATHY!!

Mark my words... it's gonna get bad, and it may be sooner than MANY think! I've often said to my kids, how will you manage?? The people of the "throw away" society and instant gratification all the time. My daughter says she will be fine because of my example. She may do okay, but she and her husband have good jobs as critical care nurses and make $35.00 to $40.00 an hour. My son works for a famous tennis player and lives in one of her homes (very nice) and pays no bills. His salary is nothing to sneeze at either. When hard times hit, I know they will feel it most. I myself still cook dinner almost every single night, that's what we did. I'm a Boomer, but came from a large family that didn't have much. Went to work at 14 so I could afford my "personal" likes. I know how to actually scrimp. I became an activist because I believed America was a country that "cared" for it's citizens better than any other nation. THIS IS NOT TRUE! Maybe it never was, but it seemed like it did. I have never seen it THIS way. Sure the Viet Nam Era had lots of upheaval, but we had an outlet and our voices were heard. We marched and revolted and things got messy, but in the end, we GOT HEARD! Today we get IGNORED!

So it does irritate me to see what we as a society have become! I'm sure there's a "fiddle" in D.C. somewhere!!

[intaglio]

43. k&r

[L0oniX]

61. kick n/t

[thoughtcrime1984]

62. Kick for those who are blinded by the Clintons

DLClinton!

[newmajority]

69. FUCK the DLC!!

President Obama will help us bury those bastards once and for all.

[stimbox]

72. He'll bury them by pushing their platform? He will out DLC, the DLC.

He'll bury them by pushing their platform? He will out DLC, the DLC.
Thereby making them obsolete.
He's the anti-DLC DLC approved candidate.
Whacky.


:silly:

[Pastiche423]

74. I am kicking this thread

because I really, really, really dislike (not actually the word I would use) the DLC.

[Barrymores Ghost]

80. K&R!!

[fadedrose]

Kick

[ingac70]

83. kicked. n/t

[1776Forever]

86. Whoo Hoo I like that!!!!!!! I knew Michelle was her own woman now I know Barack is his own man!!!!!

:woohoo: :applause: :woohoo:

[andyrowe]

89. Bam!

Dean and Obama will spell the death of the DLC.

[Cha]

92. The dlc? The

dinos' losers' club. hilary, bil and their stealth campaign.

[Zodiak]

95. K&R

My emnity with the DLC grows by the day. I will not vote for their candidate, period. Not in the primary, and not in the GE. I will not affix my vote to progressivism losing what little power in the party we have for another 20 years to these moles and vipers.

I track Senate records. Look at the DLC-flagged members and tell me if they are our friends...these are votes on big issues for the 109th Congress.

Harkin (Iowa) 82.75862069
Boxer (California) 82.75862069
Feingold (Wisconsin) 82.75862069
Kennedy (Massacheusetts) 77.5862069
Corzine (New Jersey) now Gov. 76.66666667
Lautenberg (New Jersey) 75.86206897
Durbin (Illinois) 75.86206897
Akaka (Hawaii) 75.86206897
Sarbanes (Maryland) 72.4137931
Kerry (Massacheusetts) 70.68965517
Leahy (Vermont) 70.68965517
Levin (Michigan) 68.96551724
Mikulski (Maryland) 68.96551724
Reed (Rhode Island) 68.96551724
Biden (Deleware) 67.24137931
Dodd (Connecticut) 65.51724138
Wyden (Oregon) 65.51724138
Dayton (Minnesota) 65.51724138
Obama (Illinois) 63.79310345
Bayh (Indiana) DLC 60.34482759
Murray (Washington) 60.34482759
Schumer (New York) DLC 58.62068966
Inouye (Hawaii) DLC 56.89655172
Bingaman (New Mexico) 56.89655172
Dorgan (North Dakota) DLC 55.17241379
Reid (Nevada) 55.17241379
Byrd (West Virginia) 55.17241379
Clinton (New York) DLC 53.44827586
Menendez (New Jersey) DLC 50
Cantwell (Washington) DLC 48.27586207
Stabenow (Michigan) DLC 46.55172414
Kohl (Wisconsin) DLC 44.82758621
Feinstein (California) DLC 44.82758621
Leiberman (Connecticut) DLC 44.82758621
Rockefeller (West Virginia) 41.37931034
Conrad (North Dakota) DLC 41.37931034
Baucus (Montana) DLC 39.65517241
Carper (Deleware) DLC 34.48275862
Johnson (South Dakota) DLC 31.03448276
Lincoln (Arkansas) DLC 31.03448276
Salazar (Colorado) DLC 24.13793103
Pryor (Arkansas) DLC 22.4137931
Nelson (Florida) DLC 20.68965517
Landrieu (Louisianna) DLC 17.24137931
Nelson (Nebraska) DLC 3.448275862


Their voting record makes me sick...they aren't "centrists"....they are moles put in place to make sure that everything goes the way of Republicans. A nice racket they have going, really...take corporate money, edge out any progressive voice in our body politic, and pretend that their right-wing agenda is what represents the "left"...all the while ensuring business-friendly legislation gets passed at the expense of labor. But citizens are starting to do their homework and are catching on to this...hopefully in time to torpedo the DLC nominee before it is too late.

[beezlebum]

96. k&r

edit to add: i'm starting to feel a little better about voting for obama this saturday.

[Bread and Circus]

98. What's funny is I have the wrong link in the OP and no one seemed to notice...

an accident on my part.

Here's the correct link:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050321/berman

[Armstead]

105. By coincidence I found the same Black Commentator article today

[andyrowe]

101. Kick!

Bam.

[Infinite Hope]

107. F'em. n/t

[bigbrother05]

109. k&r

[Spiffarino]

115. Let the cream rise to the top

:kick:

[Oldenuff]

119. K & R

[Jack Rabbit]

120. Oye, Al From

¡Chíngate!

K/R

[caligirl]

121. The DU dream candidate, for some of us that is. You gotta love the guy for this.

[H2O Man]

130. Very good! n/t

[johnlal]

131. Great post!

The last thing our country needs is a Lieberman-style Democrat in the White House. Vote OBAMA

[demokatgurrl]

132. It IS funny because I think he's to the right of the DLC. n/t

[Zodiak]

133. Then you thought wrong.

Harkin (Iowa) 82.75862069
Boxer (California) 82.75862069
Feingold (Wisconsin) 82.75862069
Kennedy (Massacheusetts) 77.5862069
Corzine (New Jersey) now Gov. 76.66666667
Lautenberg (New Jersey) 75.86206897
Durbin (Illinois) 75.86206897
Akaka (Hawaii) 75.86206897
Sarbanes (Maryland) 72.4137931
Kerry (Massacheusetts) DLC 70.68965517
Leahy (Vermont) 70.68965517
Levin (Michigan) 68.96551724
Mikulski (Maryland) 68.96551724
Reed (Rhode Island) 68.96551724
Biden (Deleware) 67.24137931
Dodd (Connecticut) 65.51724138
Wyden (Oregon) 65.51724138
Dayton (Minnesota) 65.51724138
Obama (Illinois) 63.79310345
Bayh (Indiana) DLC 60.34482759
Murray (Washington) 60.34482759
Schumer (New York) DLC 58.62068966
Inouye (Hawaii) DLC 56.89655172
Bingaman (New Mexico) 56.89655172
Dorgan (North Dakota) DLC 55.17241379
Reid (Nevada) 55.17241379
Byrd (West Virginia) 55.17241379
Clinton (New York) DLC 53.44827586
Menendez (New Jersey) DLC 50
Cantwell (Washington) DLC 48.27586207
Stabenow (Michigan) DLC 46.55172414
Kohl (Wisconsin) DLC 44.82758621
Feinstein (California) DLC 44.82758621
Leiberman (Connecticut) DLC 44.82758621
Rockefeller (West Virginia) 41.37931034
Conrad (North Dakota) DLC 41.37931034
Baucus (Montana) DLC 39.65517241
Carper (Deleware) DLC 34.48275862
Johnson (South Dakota) DLC 31.03448276
Lincoln (Arkansas) DLC 31.03448276
Salazar (Colorado) DLC 24.13793103
Pryor (Arkansas) DLC 22.4137931
Nelson (Florida) DLC 20.68965517
Landrieu (Louisianna) DLC 17.24137931
Nelson (Nebraska) DLC 3.448275862

[demokatgurrl]

135. so what do the numbers mean?

[Zodiak]

138. They are the percentage of times that these Senators voted with the progressive

position on the big issues and nominations of the 109th Congress. I tracked their votes for two years because there is too much rhetoric on DU and too little policy analysis.

Here is the complete post with the methodology.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3010297

[Bread and Circus]

151. Do you have a score for John Edwards for when he was in the Senate?

[Zodiak]

184. No, wish I did

But it was fairly typical for a visible DLCer....about 50-60%

[RaleighNCDUer]

176. Thank you. That is GREAT.

I appreciate the work that went into it.

[Zodiak]

185. No prob...I did it for myself, really

Because I did not know which Democrats were "good" and which were "bad". This was an eye-opener for me, and it is what made me a rabid anti-DLCer. As far as I'm concerned, with them in the party, we will get nothing done and look like fools to the American electorate.

[mod mom]

134. DLC Al From, dissed Gore for emphasizing he would "fight for the people & not the powerful":

Al Gore, the self-styled environmental candidate in the 2000 Presidential election, lost his bid for the White House because he campaigned on an outdated "populist" platform that was too liberal for most Americans, according to a new report drafted by the Democratic Leadership Council.

The 40-page report, titled "Why Gore Lost, And How Democrats Can Come Back," concludes that the Democratic Party must move towards the political right -- towards the Republicans -- if it wants to regain control of Congress in 2002 and the White House in 2004.

Al From, the DLC's founder and CEO, opened a freewheeling discussion forum by arguing that Democrat Al Gore made a huge tactical mistake by continually emphasizing that he would "fight for the people and not the powerful" as the nation's first president of the 21st Century.

-snip

http://www.progress.org/goredlc2.htm

[harun]

136. Kick & R, The DLC is something that may have been appropriate

back in the mid 80's when they thought it up. America is ready to move beyond that though.

[ShortnFiery]

137. A Democratic KICK for the morning crowd. GD the DLC! ,,, GD The DLC mahn!

:dem:

[Gloria]

139. I guess he'll be returning all that corporate/lobbyist money AND

trying to undo that watered-down nuke energy bill rewritten at the behest of the Republicans...

Oh, is he retracting his "I wouldn't know how I would have voted on Iraq if I had been in the Senate" and votes to fund the war, too?

He "realized" his name was in the database? Oh, like pushing the wrong colored button in Ill.???

[Enrique]

140. Hillary, Obama and Edwards are all DLC types

to about the same extent.

[boricua79]

141. and this, in a nutshell, why I vote Obama and not Hillary

Hillary is in the DLC
Obama asked to be removed

THAT's the dividing line.

I'm an old Democrat. I don't want no part in being a New Democrat.

THAT's my bread and butter issue. are you DLC scum or not?

[cooolandrew]

143. An almighty K&R

[Marie26]

147. Link doesn't match post

What are you referring to? Is this a news article or a DU post? Thanks.

[Bread and Circus]

149. See post #98 for the correct link. You win a prize as you are one

of the few to notice :)

[Marie26]

152. Yay!

What's the prize? Thanks for the link.

[Bread and Circus]

155. I will donate 50 dollars to the Obama campaign in your honor!

:toast:

[Marie26]

157. LOL, please don't.

Or I might have to donate $100 dollars to Clinton in your honor.

[Bread and Circus]

160. Please do, I'm sure Mark Penn can use the money.

[Marie26]

164. As can Axlerod.

Let's turn this into a flame-fest, OK?

[George II]

148. NICE, LET'S JUST ALL CONTINUE TO JUMP ON THE DESTROY THE DEMOCRATS BANDWAGON!!

Why don't you people take this negative stuff about Democrats somewhere else, like Free Republic, Conservativeunderground, Drudge, etc.

Thanks!

This is a DEMOCRATIC website, where we should be promoting DEMOCRATS, not tearing them up!!!!!

[Bread and Circus]

150. DLC'ers are ruining things for REAL Democrats in my opinion.

Also, we haven't picked a nominee yet.

but if you are being sarcastic, then you got me :)

[George II]

186. I was not being sarcastic....

Who do you consider to be "real" democrats?

I know we haven't picked a nominee yet, but that has little to do with what you posted.

However, in my opinion too many of the so-called "demcratic" posters on this site have lost sight of what being a democrat entails. We're not going to agree with everyone on every issue, but unfortunately some find it too easy to latch onto one or two issues and berate anyone who has a different opinion on that issue. Further, they melodramatically post their bashing posts with headings such as "Why I hate " etc.

These democrats expend so much energy criticizing and slamming other democrats that they lose sight of the true concept of being a democrat and lose sight of the fact that ANY democrat aligns themselves closer to each of our principles (not 100%, mind you) than ANY of the republicans on the other side.

Further, on the issue of "haven't picked a nominee yet", I am an Obama supporter and voted for him in the primary this week. But, I suspect one reason for him wanting his name removed from the DLC list of rising starts a year or so ago is that he was going to announce his candidacy for the nomination and his perceived major obstacle (HRC) is a memberof the DLC.

[mistertrickster]

153. Finally, we're getting some pro-Obama threads going here at DU.

About time.

He's by far the most progressive candidate we've got left.

And his message of hope and empowerment has got to be welcome among thinking (and acting) Democrats.

[crud76]

154. Thanks for the post

It says something good about his character.

Kay and Arr!

[snappyturtle]

158. K&R

:kick:

[mdmc]

177. Miss DLC (aka HRC) didn't even go to their annual rat worm function

Everyone hates the DLC

[natrat]

178. personally i dont want to get all pro obama and watch hrc win the nomination

it would be nice to see him do well cuz bill clinton is a disgusting wanker

[yurbud]

189. why don't these asswipes just move to K street and let us have an actual opposition party?

[satyr9us]

190. On Day One

Obama's going to kick the old politics to the curb. As he raises middle finger in the direction of the DLC, what do you want him to go about accomplishing on day one?