A careful examination of both candidates 2007 tax filing shows that

[grantcart]

only one candidate has agreed to release them.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-to-clinto.html

[napi21]

1. I don't GAS what any of the candidates tax returns show.

Big damn deal that they all make a lot of money. Who cares? I already know Bill makes a LOT of money on speaking engagements, and they both made quite a bit on their book deals. I think we already know McCain's money is his wife's money. Why does it make any damn difference if any of them release their tax returns? It sure doesn't matter to me!

[TexasObserver]

2. perhaps you're new to the Democratic party, but we believe it does matter

We fought for years to make politicians disclose their self interests, and this is part of it.

It's the Republicans like Bush who behave like the Clintons are behaving on this issue.

[ursi]

3. good comment, TexasObserver ...

[MonkeyFunk]

6. And she releases a financial statement every year

as a member of the Senate.

And if she's the nominee, she will release her tax returns.

Where was the outrage over Edwards' tax returns? Biden's? Dodd's? Gravel's?

Just fake outrage over a non-story.

[Big Blue Marble]

7. That statement tells us how much she is worth.

The tax return is much better at telling us in detail where the money comes from.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. yes

and if she's the nominee you'll get to see it, just like every election year.

[Egnever]

26. It will be too late then

Why hide it?

[napi21]

24. I think you're wrong on that one. Tax returns are not that detailed.

You'll see her & Bill's salary (if he has one), capital gains, but not any detail you're looking for.

[Big Blue Marble]

43. Tax returns are very detailed.

Anyone who understands account and finance, will gain much knowledge from a tax return
I assure you. You can learn exactly where the money was made and well as in what amounts.

[Dogmudgeon]

17. But she must do it NOW. We DEMAND it!

We must get what we want!

The Future will not be denied!

The enemies of Hope will not prevail!

We want it. Now!

--p!

[grantcart]

19. why has she agreed to show them only after she gets the nomination?

No fake outrage. The internet is filled with allegations about recent business deals conducted by Bill, in addiiton to questions about 8 figure donations to the library. Her income is not the question. Where it comes from is.

[grantcart]

34. The financial statement released is a brief summary compared to

releasing the complete taxes. But since she is going to become the nominee and release them then and since there is nothing in them that can harm her she has no reason not to do it now.

[napi21]

22. U;m hardly new to the Dem Party! I've voted Dem every time since 1964!

I don't understand what info you think you need from a tax return that you don't already have? All of the candidates have a lot more $$ than you and I do. They all pay taxes. What else really matters? i don't understand what you're looking for?

[Fresh_Start]

4. I know Senator Clinton donated the proceeds from her book

to charity.

Obama deposited his in the bank.

[Big Blue Marble]

9. What is the link for that?

You are saying that she donated that big advance she received for her post whitehouse book to charity?

That is the first time I have heard that. Please show me the evidence.

[Fresh_Start]

25. Her book "It takes a village"

http://www.clintonpresidentialcenter.org/legacy/122096-hrc-announces-book-royalties-dispersement.htm

[Big Blue Marble]

45. She received 8 million dollars for her book "Living History."

"Living History is the autobiography of United States Senator and former First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton, published in 2003.
In December 2000, Simon & Schuster agreed to pay Clinton a reported $8 million advance for what became Living History —
a near-record figure to an author for an advance at that time."

This time she kept the whole 8 million.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_History

[tabatha]

14. Barack worked for years

at low pay in helping others.

Clinton went to a high-paying law firm.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. Obama doesn't have a spouse that gets millions for speaking gigs

[MonkeyFunk]

5. And you know she's said that if she's the nominee...

she'll release them?

And you also know that John Kerry released his returns AFTER securing the nomination?

And you know that that's how it's traditionally done?

Yes, you know - but you like to repeat a half-truth that's already been posted here 20 times.

[abburdlen]

10. So why not release them now?

seriously?
if they're going to be released then the media is going to go over them with a microscope, eventually anyway.
We should just wait until it's too late to make sure she's fully vetted?

[MonkeyFunk]

13. Release yours

and we'll talk.

This is a non-issue, being trumped up to make it seem like something it's not.

Where was the outrage when Edwards was still in the running?

[abburdlen]

18. When I ask you

for your vote I'll post them.

[Big Blue Marble]

12. The Clintons have made nearly 50 million

in the last seven years. We would like to know where that money came from.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. And if she's the nominee

you will.

[abburdlen]

20. How can we nominate

someone who hasn't been vetted?!

[grantcart]

21. actually I don't want to know - I could care less but

I don't want it to come out after the nomination so that if there is something that will fatally injure her campaign it should be released before democrats vote on their nominee. If it is good enough to show republicans and independents its good enough to show you and the rest of the democrats.

The other reason that it is now an issue is that having loaned herself the money creates an additional ethics quesition (as was quoted from Pres Clinton's remarkes that were quoted in a dozen threads over the last few days).

[Stephanie]

37. Plus they're due to collect $20M more from Ron Burkle any day now.

For services provided by Bill Clinton to his company Yucaipa. What sort of services we don't know but presumably sales. All of which she's free to spend on her campaign.

[thoughtcrime1984]

8. It has to do with transparency

The kind that Obama wants in our government. Not secrecy, like the kinds of secrets that might be revealed from a look at HRC's tax return.

[grantcart]

23. Yes and the completely unteneable proposition that you only get to see

if after you vote for me not before. So she is happy for republicans and independents to have more ability to scrutinize than democrats.

[abburdlen]

27. If she flat out refused

she'd have a better argument. Not a good one, but a better one.

"I'll show you, but only after it's too late for it to matter."

[thoughtcrime1984]

29. She may not be fully vetted as has been suggested

If something foul appears after her nom, we're sunk. IF something is amiss, then let's get to it before we crown the winner.

[grantcart]

33. Well lets say that she is, this brings out yet another Clinton argument

that no one challenges but I find fancible, when she states, "Everyone knows about all of the Repubican attacks that I have withstood and I have handled them all."

1) Some like the payments made on behalf of people who were last minute pardoned occurred so late that they were never engaged

and

2) Just because they were brought up and discussed before does not mean that they will not be brought up over and over and over again by the republicans in a presidential campaign. Every 'gate' from travel office to Lewinsky to Mark Rich' will be cannon fodder for the republicans again.

[thoughtcrime1984]

36. True

There are many voters who weren't old enough to vote during Bill's cycles, and some who may have been apathetic to politics back then, who would have fresh ears to all of the scandals.

[1776Forever]

31. Oh yeah - there is the secret word for Hillary - Secrecy! She loves that word!!!

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/that_clinton_library_not_handi.html

That Clinton library not handing out cards just yet

by Andrew Malcolm

Despite previous promises of openness and transparency and even while denouncing the secrecy of the Bush administration, she and her husband have not authorized the release of millions of pages of documents, letters, calendars, appointment logs, e-mails and memos from her years as first lady.

It is the years covered by these documents that Clinton constantly cites as proof that she has the necessary experience required to become president. And it is those documents that could reveal much about her true White House role in many events, controversial and not.

Yet, all these documents remain locked up in the William J. Clinton Presidential Library in Little Rock overlooking the Arkansas River, as detailed in a lengthy August story by The Times' Peter Nicholas. And officials indicate none of them will be released before November 2008, which happens to be presidential election time. What a coincidence!

According to a recent Newsweek story, "Nearly three years after the Clinton library opened...

and more than 21 months after after its trove of records became subject to the Freedom of Information Act -- barely one-half of 1% of the 78 million pages of documents and 20 million e-mail messages at the federally funded facility are public.".....

Newsweek also wrote that it had obtained documents showing that while the former president publicly claims a willingness to release documents, he (Bill) has given the National Archives private instructions to maintain tight control over certain documents, including everything relating to investigations by Congress, Justice Department officials and independent counsels, and "communications directly between the president and first lady, and their families."

Like any closed door, it makes you wonder.:eyes:

[Stephanie]

39. We need to see the donor list for the Library too.

They have no legitimate reason to hide that list. Giustra donated $131M. Who else is giving?

[grantcart]

59. Maybe if we are all really quiet the republicans will forget to ask in the GE nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

28. another cicada for Obama....they are everywhere

[grantcart]

30. yes they are and Hillary's campaign are generating a lot of them.

Just as you have no argument for why it should be released but only after democrats have decided who the nominee, this issue will grow and has legs. If there is nothing bad then why not release them?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. maybe she doesn't want to show Obama her hand...political strategy nothing more

[abburdlen]

35. transparency and open government

play second fiddle to Clinton's political strategy, is that your opinion or is that campaign doctrine?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

38. this is an election NOT a government YET

[abburdlen]

40. Do the rules change

right after the election or after the inauguration?

I know this all may seem flippant to you, but seriously don't you see that this looks bad for your candidate?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

41. no I don't...she said, "if she gets the nom that she will open her tax forms" seems reasonable to..

me for any candidate too do.

I don't understand why you wouldn't think it is too?

[abburdlen]

42. here's why

Opening them up is to show she has nothing to hide, that she has no embarrassing issues buried in her filings.- you get that part right?
Waiting until after the nominations says to Democratic primary voters, "just trust that it's all good"

It's like a salesman selling you a car but saying you can't look under the hood until you sign on the bottom line.

There may be nothing there but when you say you can't look, it just invites questions.

[catagory5]

44. Did Kerry?

ever release? Before Nom?

REmember Kerry the Politician lost Obama supporters hold on a pedestal?

[abburdlen]

49. Last go around

I know Clark released his records.

That's who I was supporting.

But is your answer Clinton is just going to follow Kerry's lead?

[grantcart]

50. and how did that work out for him? lol

Suggesting that we follow Kerry's example is somehow not a winning hand.

But there were not alot of rumors about Kerry having recieved a lot of money in exchange for doing favors.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

46. and it also arms the rethuglican machine for both Obama and Clinton...He should not do it either

[abburdlen]

47. Obama has released his

And if she's worried about the republicans attacking then why will she release them if she gets the nomination?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

48. it's just smart....why give them so much more time

[abburdlen]

51. Some much time to find dirt on her?

if it's there, it's there.

From a political stand point maybe you're right. Hide the skeletons in the closet as long as possible, but are you honestly saying you are okay if she does have questionable stuff in her records she should just sit on them until after she's nominated? What was all that "tested, ready" stuff about?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. wrong...that is NOT what I meant...there is NO dirt. They would LOVE to know .........

our president elects money situation as early as possible so they could chart their course accordingly....again Obama has much to learn

[abburdlen]

55. I honestly don't know what you are saying

and I'm beginning to suspect you don't either.

[grantcart]

61. they will have plenty of time the issue here is why not

let the democrats have the same information that the GE will have.

Now since we know that there is nothing of substance in there, if they come out now the Republicans will not have a chance to make the charge that she was afraid of releasing them during the primary season. She can explain and refute it during the primary season where she will have a much greater ability to control the narrative and put it to bed. It is in Hillary's interest to do it now not later.


Of course if there is something that will set of an explosive ethics debate you would want to hold it to after the primary and then seek to attack your opponents own old standing ethichs problems with Keating.

Oh yeah your right you convinced me she should sit on it until she names her VP and then let it out. Absolutley do not let the democrats see what the republicans will.

[grantcart]

52. what is so revealing about your knee jerk responses is that you cannot

sit there and say something like, "While I think Sen. Clinton will make a great President I am sure there is nothing in the tax reports that will harm her and I wish she would release them".

There is no defense in holding the reports until after the nomination.

This reflexive ardent defense of everything Clinton does even when it is obviously a problem is really astonishing. We saw it in these threads during the SC primary. Clinton supporters defending every stupid move that Bill made. Every commentator called them stupid and now even Bill admits that he misstepped.

This reflexive action to defend Clinton even when they are mishandling an issue is much more indicative of a cult relationship than that which the Clinton supporters accuse Obama supporters of.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

54. ahhh words of havoc from another Obama cicada

[grantcart]

56. you already used that in post # 28 is it that

1) you have no intelligent response

2) lack creativity

3) early signs of dementia

[ElsewheresDaughter]

57. how's the pay?

[grantcart]

58. I'm fine thank you

[abburdlen]

60. morning kick

:hangover: