Are You Experienced?

[H2O Man]

One of the issues that is being discussed both on DU and in the corporate media is "experience." It is a valid topic, and one that is worthy of serious attention. It reminds me of the same debate that the nation had in 1960, when Senator John Kennedy was running against VP Richard Nixon.

The Nixon campaign was trying to get an advantage in the close race by projecting an image of being a mature, seasoned candidate, who was running against an untested youngster. It was during a couple of press conferences that Kennedy's wit put the issue in a different context.

At a time when there is more than a little tension between the Clinton and Obama supporters on DU, I think that a couple of quotes from JFK's press conferences might be appreciated. I think that all democrats are glad that JFK beat Nixon in 1960!

{1} "Ladies and gentlemen, the outstanding news story of this week was not the events of the United Nations or even the Presidential campaign. It was the story coming out of my own city of Boston that Ted Williams of the Boston Red Sox had retired from baseball. It seems that at forty-two he was too old. It shows that perhaps experience isn't enough." (Minneapolis)

{2}"I know a banker who served thirty years as president of a bank. He had more experience, until his bank went broke, than any other banker in Massachusetts. But if I ever go into the banking business, I do not plan on hiring him, and he knows the operation from top to bottom." (Jacksonville, Florida)

[izzie]

1. And I know old doctors and lawyers that are pretty bad.

Even teachers have to go back to college to get up to date. I think this stuff is sort of crazy. After all Obama was working while Clinton was just in the WH with Bill. She can not say she did all this work at that time and turn around and say she will keep Bill out of the job. What does that mean any how? We did not vote her into office as a co-President so those 8 years of so called govt. work hardly count. She has been around the world, at our cost, but she could hardly be said she did any stuff like talks on world things. That was what her husband was doing. I just do not get all this stuff at all and any how I think it is a thinking thing that makes a god President. We see how being a son of one does for making one a good President. Heck Bush was always around this stuff, since birth and look what he has done. Thank God none have had the time in Govt. that Nixon had, Right?

[bulldogge]

2. kind of ironic

that the only job in the US where people can discriminate by age is the presidency. 46 Years Old. How old does one have to be to finally figure it out? I think that if the best argument against a man is his age then he has already won.

[ginnyinWI]

13. I didn't feel very young when I was 46.

I started to feel "mature" at about 42 when I started coloring my hair, wearing sunblock, and doing all the sensible things you start to do when you realize that you don't get a free ride with your health anymore.

Maybe one reason Obama seems younger is because his kids are younger--but they didn't have them until their mid-30s, looks like.

[stillcool]

3. Jimi Hendrix

now that song is going to be stuck in my head all day.

That said, I don't know how anyone could say that Obama does not have experience. Far more than any candidate I have ever voted for.

Worked as a community organizer on the Far South Side of Chicago
At 23 worked as a director for a group of organizations that wanted to rebuild communeties by setting up job training, and after school programs
The first Black President of the Harvard Law Review
Worked at a civil-rights firm that specialized in employment discrimination law, and voting rights law
Taught constitutional law and voting rights law at the University of Chicago
Elected to the state Senate in 1996

[Straight Shooter]

4. Everything else being more or less equal, I choose based on experience.

My accountant, for instance, is a Republican (ack!). I chose him because he takes his job seriously, he's been a CPA for 20 years, and I can count on him to get the job done correctly. He has been able to help me construct my business and saved me a substantial amount of money, "substantial" being relative to my modest income.

When I had surgery a few years ago, the situation was so complex that the head of the department at OHSU (Portland) was called in. He had a good team, but he was in charge, and I felt assured that I was in good hands, so I never worried about the outcome.

I do rely on experience as a factor in hiring people for serious jobs.

[ruggerson]

5. This is your second thread using the Richard Nixon/Hillary Clinton analogy

I don't know what you are attempting to gain from it other than alienating good Democrats.

[bulldogge]

6. My interpretation

would be that the nixon/kennedy election was another situation in which a man under 60 is being called inexperienced. I don't think anyone is calling Clinton Nixon but if you have another campaign comparison in which age was a major issue outside of Reagan it would be interesting to hear.
This is the problem with the left, there is far too much infighting taking place while the right wing machine, which is based on a military structure to begin with, moves straight ahead.

[sheelz]

7. Hopefully

shhh, Waterman can sing a song of "Come Together"

when the time is right....

sorry my timing is off--often

Damn Hippies!

[Straight Shooter]

10. I seem to remember that that was the election where style first trumped substance.

Those who listened to the radio address, far preferred Nixon.

Those who watched on television, favored Kennedy.

I'm just going by memory of what I've read of that election, but it was the beginning of the art of stagecraft in manipulating the electorate. Rove used it in the bush campaign with devastating results. Axelrod/Gibbs are doing the same thing with Barack. I do not know who is behind the scenes in crafting Hillary's image. But I want my hair cut that way. :)

[Hippo_Tron]

31. And frankly it's a good thing that style did trump substance...

Otherwise the sociopath Nixon would've blown up the world during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[H2O Man]

32. Checkmate n/t

[H2O Man]

9. Nope.

This might surprise you, but no matter who are candidate is -- either Clinton or Obama -- the republicans are going to say that McCain's military experience makes him more qualified. I'm not sure what your problem is.

[Tatiana]

15. McCain has 25 years of experience as an elected official (four in the House and 21 in the Senate).

Plus McCain was a prisoner of war for over 5 and a half years.

Do we REALLY want to be pushing the Nixonian "Experience Counts" meme?

[rosesaylavee]

8. I don't have the link but perhaps someone else does...

but hasn't Obama addressed this already with a quip about Cheney and Rumsfeld had a lot of experience too going into the Bush Administration?

I appreciate your posts for trying to give us an historical perspective.

[Tatiana]

11. Clinton isn't the most experienced.

Edwards served a single term in the Senate. Obama served eight years in the Illinois state Senate and is halfway through his first term in the U.S. Senate. Clinton is about to begin her eighth year in the U.S. Senate. Going by years spent as an elective official, Obama's 11 years exceeds Clinton's seven, which in turn exceeds Edwards' six.

Here Clinton is in the http://www.newsweek.com/id/91756/page/2">Jan. 14 Newsweek, comparing herself with Obama:

I wish it didn't have to be a choice. I think a lot of people who are torn between us feel that way. But it is a contest, and the contrasts have to be drawn and the questions have to be asked because, obviously, I wouldn't be in this race and working as hard as I am unless I thought I am uniquely qualified at this moment in our history to be the president we need starting in 2009 … I think it is informed by my deep experience over the last 35 years, my firsthand knowledge of what goes on inside a White House.

Thirty-five years takes you back to 1973, half of which Hillary spent in law school, for crying out loud.

<snip>

Clinton emphasizes in particular her profound experience in foreign policy. http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/20/528334.aspx">Here she is on Dec. 20:

It is tempting any time things seem quieter for a minute on the international front to think that we don't need a president who's up to speed on foreign affairs and military matters. Well, that's the kind of logic that got us George Bush in the first place. Experience in foreign affairs is critical for ending the war in Iraq, averting war in Iran, negotiating a Middle East peace and dealing with North Korea.

But a http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/26/us/politics/26clinton.html?_r=1&oref=slogin">Dec. 26 New York Times story revealed that during her husband's two terms in office, Hillary Clinton did not hold a security clearance, did not attend meetings of the National Security Council, and was not given a copy of the president's daily intelligence briefing.

(more...)

http://www.slate.com/id/2182073/pagenum/all

[H2O Man]

12. It is an issue

that will be mentioned in the general election. The republican machine will try to use McCain's military experience as proof that he should be president, and not Clinton or Obama.

we'll need to use the JFK approach, and remind people that one of the problems our military has is with old, worn-out equipment. The democrats are offering the country something fresh and new.

[ginnyinWI]

14. McCain's temperament works against him

True or not (and probably true), his reputation for having a short fuse will work against him, contrasted to Obama's even temperament.

[Straight Shooter]

16. The problem with the military has much to do with mismanagement and abuse of resources.

Bill Clinton brought the military into tip-top shape. Remember Franken's comment to Wolfowitz following the initial invasion? The comment had something to do with the superiority of the military that was built up during the Clinton administration.

Whose management style is better, who can organize and delegate, who can choose the better Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State to get us out of the Iraq mess and uninvolved in an Iran mess; that's the question for me. Who is more pragmatic; that's what I want to know.

Another post of mine addressing McCain/Hillary/Obama. There is also the issue of foresight:

I've seen how McCain comes across to people. I don't like him, and it's hard not to be impressed with his measured, thoughtful way of addressing the issues. If one didn't have knowledge of the issues, it would be easy to be fooled.

Hillary has the trump card. With Iran being in the news, and it will continue to be in the news, she is the only one of the three that voted for Kyl/Lieberman. She can actually claim she's tough on terror, because she's the only one who voted on it. She had the political courage to commit on the record.

Barack, of course, did not vote. McCain, surprisingly, did not vote.

We would be foolish to underestimate how much Iran is going to dominate the news. I see the same creeping coverage of it as we saw in Iraq. But Hillary, at least, will go for diplomatic measures. I think she can get Ahmadinejad to calm down, because she'll make a wise decision for Secretary of State. Joe Biden or Richardson would be good choices.

[nonconformist]

21. Yes, they will... and that approach will be far more effective against Obama.

Why? Because he just recently busted onto the scene. Nobody outside of Illinois knew who he was until the 2004 Convention. Up until a couple of years ago, he was a state senator. That "greeness" really does make a lot of people nervous... especially older people, who are the people who always vote, come hell or high water.

Everyone knows who Hillary Clinton is, and they know she's been in the thick of it for many years. They know she was a very involved, hands-on First Lady, not your typical first lady, so she knows the ins and outs of the Presidency.

Now, I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong... but it's definitely the IMPRESSION that the American people have, and will have. It's also why people question Obama's experience and accomplishments, specifically, so much... he's an enigma, and they're trying to figure him out. He doesn't have a long history of being in the public eye, so there's not much else to go on.

But I do agree that they'll say that McCain is the most experienced, and tout his military service.... which is why I think picking a running mate with a military background (like Clark) would be a smart move.

[bridgit]

17. Firstly: 'are you experienced?' reminds me of Hendrix, still; to my mind, Obama supporters seem...

inexperienced, with many very willing to; forget for a moment 'The KoolAid', they're ready to "drink the sand". And so willing to discount experience as an important factor i.e. "inexperience", if you will, as a self & pre-justifying means to an end we cannot see from here. Let alone imagine.

Secondly, experience is important. Employers respond favorably to applicants that are able to illustrate a contiguous, experiential job history. Not that education is unimportant, but that short of extenuating circumstance such as: nepotism, cronyism, racial/socio-economic quotas and the like, and with two people standing before two applications; both with educational credentials, the one with the more applicable experience will be considered more completely.

I was accepted into UCLA's scholarship program (not having the money to participate) in no small measure in that I'd been reading to & serving the poor & homeless & the elderly communities here in my town since I was pre-teen. Other programs as well, though this is not about me, and I only mention as a way to illustrate. I know my experience was a factor, because the board told me so across the table with my application between us.

There are plenty that get where they are going with little or no experience i.e. g.w. bush, "Brownie yer do'n a heck of a job!" - Brown, etc...

And I do have empathy for some that feel combing their pony's tail all afternoon with their cell phone in hand; will be enough experience under certain circumstances.

[Tatiana]

20. It is my position that Clinton is no more experienced than Obama.

If anything, in a general election, McCain wins hands down the "experienced" argument, so I don't think it's in our bests interests to be pushing the "experienced" meme. We're begging to get slapped with it in the general election, no matter who our nominee is.

[bridgit]

25. I fully understand Obama-folks are highly thin skinned regarding this issue...

And I personally feel there will be a Dem in the WH when all the dust settles. But to dismiss, or discount as I mentioned above: experience, is to look right past the problem. Assuming, I suppose, that there is one.

If Obama, or his supporters think he has been slighted thus far? They had better grab their ass with both hands cause these republicans, even with the world they've destroyed falling round their ears in ashes, will...not...let...go so easily.

That much is a given, and they'll be screaming "experience" from the roof tops. Dismissing every unpalatable notion as 'meme', however, will not prepare the way imo and yes, without doubt...no matter who our nominee is.

I hope our rapid-response team has their keyboards dusted off, cause we're going to need them.

[Tatiana]

29. I'm not part of Obama-folkdom, nor am I thin-skinned.

That's an incorrect characterization.

That aside, I hope there is a Dem in the WH. And I do agree we will need a rapid-response team because the right-wingers will be screaming "experience" from the rooftops, given their candidate *is* the most experienced.

My point is only that as it pertains to elective office, Clinton has no more experience than Obama does and pushing the "experience" theme only highlights the fact that McCain is the winner if we're asking citizens to vote on experience.

[snappyturtle]

18. Everytime I hear or read the word 'experience' in reference to a

candidate's credentials I can't help but thinking: the only people 'qualified' are ex-presidents. Therefore, I look to a candidate's disposition, reasoning ability and character.

BTW: K&R!

[bulldogge]

26. Well said

Thank you

[ClayZ]

19. We ae going to caucus today,

With our 81 year old neighbors. He is a Vet For Peace. She just lost a son 2 weeks ago. Our kids will meet us there.

We will be all be standing in the Obama camp.

I will be thinking and hoping!

Thanks, DU! Today is my first caucus.

[stillcool]

22. I hope you tell us...

how it went. I've never been to a caucus, and only have experienced it from reading here on DU.

[ClayZ]

27. I will report!

I am excited!



:bounce:

[FrenchieCat]

24. Excellent. Good Luck!

[TacticalPeek]

23. Yes.

And because I am, I must respectfully disagree.

While folks might contend over whether Obama is JFK-like or not, I have no support for framing Hillary in the Nixon shadow again.

The truth matters.

[whatchamacallit]

28. "...have you ever been experienced? Well I ha-a-ave" That shit's going in the CD player right now!

oh sorry, what was your point?

[David Zephyr]

30. Jimi.

[H2O Man]

33. Heck of an album. n/t

[Tatiana]

34. Experienced.

:kick: